Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Honinbo 7/15/19 6:38 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana spatial 7/15/19 4:17 PM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Honinbo 7/16/19 1:09 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana pieva 7/16/19 5:25 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Jim Smith 7/16/19 3:58 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Jim Smith 7/16/19 3:15 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Honinbo 7/16/19 3:26 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Jim Smith 7/16/19 5:37 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Honinbo 7/16/19 5:41 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana pieva 7/16/19 6:10 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana pieva 7/16/19 6:16 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana pieva 7/16/19 6:35 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Honinbo 7/16/19 8:56 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana pieva 7/16/19 4:10 PM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Honinbo 7/17/19 2:48 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana pieva 7/18/19 5:29 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Honinbo 7/18/19 6:10 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana pieva 7/18/19 9:36 AM
RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana Honinbo 7/19/19 1:05 AM
Honinbo, modified 4 Years ago at 7/15/19 6:38 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/15/19 6:16 AM

Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 17 Join Date: 7/15/19 Recent Posts
Hello,

cheers to everybody in the forum. Please correct me if I say anything incorrect.

I passed a quite wild A&P (I think) during a 10 day vipassana retreat following Goenka tapes. At some point I probably went too deep without knowing what I was doing and the madness started, it was impossible for me to keep equanimity and I got absorbed into the movie I made. But I think I remember Mr. Goenka saying we should go very deep in our meditation, as much as I can, and I think that's what I was doing, I reached a point where I couldn't feel my body anymore. Daniel and what I found here helped me very much for something I was totally unprepared, understand what happened. I had some paranoia during the Dark Night, still I am a bit afraid at night. The teacher claimed that I mixed techniques or did it wrong, which I don't say is not true.

As a friend told me in Goenka Vipassana there is no reference to any "Dark Night". They just claim to keep equianimity. If done in the proper way is there no Dark Night in Goenka VIpassana? Or maybe it's released in a very slow way eople won't really notice? (more than being a bit depressed, etc, to me all exploded in my face).

Anyway, I think Vipassana body scan is a great tool for a healthy live and when I feel like I wouldn't like to lose it. But I would like to know if it's possible to practice Vipassana in Goenka's tradition (I don't know if there are others) without risking "opening" any gate I would regret. Is this possible or will always be a risk? Let's say that I don't want to risk seeing anything "out of this world" on the street. If not maybe I should just focus on Metta-like practices?

Also I love martial arts and my teacher is well versed in Qigong, Yoga, breathing techniques, etc. I explained my experience to him and he knew immediately and noticed they should prepare us for what might come, that we shouldn't open the crown chackra right after start, etc. Can practice martial arts, qigong, etc (quite hard and internal ones, focusing on the Dantian, etc) after the A&P or is there a risk or mixing something and having undesired results? Can Vipassana and martial arts (harder than Taiqi) be combined?

Thank you very much for your help!
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spatial, modified 4 Years ago at 7/15/19 4:17 PM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/15/19 4:00 PM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana (Answer)

Posts: 614 Join Date: 5/20/18 Recent Posts
I'm not sure that I can really answer your questions, but I can relate to some of this. I recently got back from my third Goenka retreat, which I wrote about on this forum. Especially on my second retreat, I was having experiences that scared me into thinking I would be seeing things on the street, and would never sleep again.

Goenka doesn't explicitly mention the Dark Night by name, but I'm pretty sure he implies it. You might recall that in one of the discourses (day 7 or so?) he talks about how it is only after the stage of bhanga (dissolution), that very deep-rooted sankharas buried in the unconscious mind will come to the surface.

Regarding right/wrong ways of doing it: Again, I don't know the answer, but...I have tried other ways of doing vipassana. At the end of the day, it seems impossible. What I mean is, the moment I suggest to my mind that we are going in an "insight" direction, I always end up at the same place: awareness of physical sensations as they occur, wherever they occur. For me, at least, I feel like the awareness part is done for now, and my only project is equanimity. Remember that Goenka says there are really only two aspects to the technique: awareness and equanimity. 

I've sat through those discourses three times now, and I think I have gotten a better picture of what he's trying to say. This is just my personal interpretation, but maybe it's useful for you. When he warns against "mixing techniques", I believe he is primarily concerned with students losing sight of the fact that vipassana is about equanimity, not about favoring certain sensations over others. Certain techniques will indeed ask you to favor certain sensations, but when you practice vipassana, you need to treat all sensations equally. If you take Goenka literally, you'll drive yourself crazy, because how can you possibly live your life without ever doing anything that attempts to create favorable sensations? I believe he is only trying to preserve the purity of the concept behind vipassana, rather than dictate exactly how students should spend every moment of their day.
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Honinbo, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 1:09 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 1:09 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 17 Join Date: 7/15/19 Recent Posts
Dear spatial,

thank you very much for taking the time to reply. Your answer was very insightful for me. I will review the Goenka tapes (on Youtube) because if I tell the truth some of the last days I was so lost I didn't pay much all the attention I should (I had problems breathing). I also missed the last meditation where he explains the Metta practice. I have read a lot about Metta recently and is helping me. Because the purely audio tapes I think are not accesible I would very much appreciate if you could clarify me if the Goenka tradition practice Metta in a different way as others, visualizing, etc or it's the same I have read.

Going back to your answer actually I did see things on the street, I had paranoia during a meeting in my client's office. Here is where my fear comes from, but also I am starting to have a better relationship with it and I think is up to me if I believe I want to see something or not.

You say about the 7th day, I believe I half missed this one. Now I think I understand and it totally related to the Dark Night. This is what happened to me, I couldn't feel my body (dissolved I suppose) and suddenly I saw very clearly a huge pain. It took maybe 25 minutes to dissolve it where my body twisted, my teeth clenched and tears came to my eyes. Afterwards I couldn't move my leg for 15 minutes but I was happy, physical pain is just that. After this I think I went to the A&P (my high), then some very special experiences I had talking to myself and finally the Dark Night. Here I mostly felt fear, lots of fear, probably the very deep Sankharas Mr. Goenka talks about.

Here I have another question. In the beginning while suffering the physical pain normal from the stage before the A&P I associated that to sankhara coming out. During the Dark Night very deep sankhara appeared. And now after that, what does it mean? I have get ridden of all my sankhara? Is that even possible? I just would like to hear an explanation from Goenka tradition about what happens when those deep sankhara are unrooted (if this is possible, maybe many more things are still  buried there). Just keep the practice?

Thank you very much emoticon
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Jim Smith, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 3:58 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 2:46 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana (Answer)

Posts: 1667 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Honinbo:

...
Anyway, I think Vipassana body scan is a great tool for a healthy live and when I feel like I wouldn't like to lose it. But I would like to know if it's possible to practice Vipassana in Goenka's tradition (I don't know if there are others) without risking "opening" any gate I would regret. Is this possible or will always be a risk? Let's say that I don't want to risk seeing anything "out of this world" on the street. If not maybe I should just focus on Metta-like practices?

...
Can Vipassana and martial arts (harder than Taiqi) be combined?

Thank you very much for your help!
My opinion is that Vipassana can be combined with anything, walking, doing the dishes. Notice what's happening in your mind and body. But in a real combat situation or full contact sparring, it would probably be better to just fight.

Maybe you can do the Goenka style meditation but avoid the long retreats and very long sessions, don't do too much, take it slower? But I am not an expert on this style I have heard too many horror stories to pursue it indepth myself. I don't understand why they keep teaching it the way they do or why people follow a system that produces dark nights.

I wrote my opinion in another thread about the kind of meditaiton I do. It produces positive feelings like metta and it includes vipassana according to my understanding of vipassana.


Jim Smith:
Anybody have any thoughts on practice when noting doesn’t seem to work like it use to? 
I have tried noting and it never really felt right compared to other forms of meditation. I use it occassionally during daily life as a mindfulness practice to keep the mind focused but I don't use it in an intensive form or as a main route to something greater. But my purpose for meditaing has always been to help me realx, quiet my mind, and cope with stress so I am drawn to relaxing types of meditation. Some authors translate "dukkha" as "stress" and that fits with my view/experience of things.
Can a person do mantra & vipassana at the same time?
It depends on what you mean by "mantra" and "vipassana".

I do a kind of meditation (when sitting, walking, lying down, etc) on the breath (I use a "mantra" counting breaths or thinking "in" and "out" as I breathe) which is very relaxing and puts me into a very relaxed state.

I have written about my practice on my log in these forums
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/8496517
and on my web site
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/meditation-1#meditation_serenity

I notice (while meditating and during daily life) when thoughts arise and produce emotions (sensations in the body) that interefere with the relaxed state and then I try to relax (let go) and return to the relaxed state. I see that those emotions disappear when the thought ends as I return to the relaxed state so all those thoughts/emotions/tensions are really illusions produced by the mind. When I observe emotions as sensations in the body and observe the body becoming relaxed again as the thought ends, I consider that a form of vipasana. So in my view meditation is both concentration and vipassana, they are part of the same practice, which I think is the correct view:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/onetool.html
One Tool Among Many
The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice
by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
...
in the eyes of those who assembled the Pali discourses, samatha, jhana, and vipassana were all part of a single path.
...


It has made me more relaxed and happier since the first day I tried it. I have practiced meditation for most of my life and tried various different systems and I developed this system myself and I find it yields more benefits and I have made more progress with this than other forms. (What is uinquie about it is that the focus of meditation is the pleasant feeling of relaxation produced by inhaling and exhaling in a realxing way.) The form of meditation I do can produces intense states of bliss, but that is not really necessary to the practice, I find they are somewhat dependent on nutrition and can become tedious if over indulged in - like they are just another illusion. A pleasant illusion but an illusion nonetheless.

I also distinguish between emotions that are caused by thoughts, and emotions caused by innate biological factors. I think meditation can have a huge influence over emotions caused by thoughts but maybe only a (very) limited influence over emotions produced by innate biological factors. If someone has anxiety or depression because of innate biochemical factors they might get benefits from meditation but they should not assume it can cure the anxiety or depression.

I haven't noticed the type of meditation I do producing "dark nights" and I wonder why anyone would follow a system that advertises them as a natural part of the practice. Just being relaxed for days at a time and feeling happy more often than not is a huge improvement compared to my life before I started practicing like this so I have a hard time understanding why people want more than that. 

But recently I have been having new kind of feeling: when the mind is quiet and the body relaxed and all the ususal mental chatter is greately reduced, the absence of the usual mental chatter creates a feeling like something is missing, a feeling of emptiness, like if someone said something unpleasant, there would be no one to be offended, like it is the mental chatter that produces the feeling of self. I can't say where this is going, but it seems suggestive.
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Jim Smith, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 3:15 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 3:06 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 1667 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Leigh Brassington who teaches a type of soft jhana meditation believes that the states of intense bliss are caused by a feedback loop in the brain. I came to the same conclusion when I researched the type of meditation I do (which I developed myself). When you focus your attention on a pleasant sensation that itself is pleasant and it produces more pleasure - with continued attention the pleasure gets stronger and stronger.

But I have also found it is possible to create a feedback loop with other emotions. If I meditate when I am in a bad mood and try to "investigate" the bad mood by focusing my attention on it ... well I don't do that any more. I allow awareness of emotions but I don't foocus on them intently in a way that can produce a feedback loop.

I think it is possible that these kind of unpleasant feedback loops could explain some darknights and other bad reactions to meditation. 

Whenever I meditate I take on a relaxed pleasant open attitude. My attitude when meditating is like what you would feel if you were relaxing in a hammock on a beautiful day during summer vacation. And I take on that attitude/feeling when I meditate. It prevents unpleasant feedback loops and encourages pleasant feedback loops. It doesn't exclude unpleasant emotions (you can feel more than one emotion at the same time) but it allows me to observe them with greater equinimity and without getting swallowed up by them.
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Honinbo, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 3:26 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 3:17 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

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Thank you very much, Jim,

actually related to what you say about the "feedback loop" is what could have happened to me. I believe I released the sankhara as it has to be done, but I found out I will feel good after I do it. Then this made me to want to really go for it. Maybe this desire for "getting things done" and because I am naturaly good with concentration skills just increased the speed of everything. More physical pain for the sake of "releasing all".

What I was not ready at all is that I will also make a movie in my head. Some people will say that movie is a kind of epiphany to find something very deep about yourself, even talking about your past lives. I don't know if this is true of just something I totally made up. I would relate it to famous people in history having very strong spiritual calls in their lives. I got totally caught in this movie, it was too strong for me for not believing it. Moreover I didn't know it was not true, I dind't know or didn't understand clearly I had to try to ignore it. I thought the sankhara comes out as physical pain which is ok for me, not as this experience. I can tell that, if my story would had been different, maybe about suicide I don't know where I would be now. I can say that at some point I could choose how I wanted to follow if not maybe today I would be an hermit living in the mountain.

I think that maybe done is a soft and gentle way all this pain will release very little by little and won't become such a burden. The teacher did tell me to keep equanimity but maybe I didn't understood properly teh implications of it like I have to ignore this movie.

Thanks a lot!
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pieva, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 5:25 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 5:25 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 36 Join Date: 3/15/19 Recent Posts
If you take Goenka literally, you'll drive yourself crazy, because how can you possibly live your life without ever doing anything that attempts to create favorable sensations?
Goenka does not teach to avoid pleasure. He teaches to notice sensations, to acknowledge that they are pleasant but to stop yourself from reacting with craving. Goenka does wish everyone enjoyable lives without suffering.

I have seen a book that refers to Vipassana as a fast track meditation. The tools are very simple and you can apply them everywhere. I only wish I knew more about the cyclicity of meditation during my first Vipassana retreat. At the time, after the powerful A&P event, I thought I was doing something wrong, when my sensations became very dull. I thought that vibrant sensations and out-of-this-world experiences was an indicator of correct and successful meditation (and opposite meant opposite).

As for the dark night, I refuse to believe that we can be punished with a long-lasting misery for merely starting the meditation course and trying to become a better human. And once we come across difficulties, Vipassana gives us a tool to get over them: react with equanimity. But I wish I knew how much of the prolonged misery is caused by our actions and reactions, and how much of it is a random chance.
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Jim Smith, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 5:37 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 5:34 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 1667 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
When a Goenka teacher says, "react with equinimity" is that a specific instruction to do something they teach in the class?

Or is it a platitude like, "don't worry, be happy"? Because it sounds easy enough to say but not necessarily something that can be done. Even awakening has stages, and almost no one has perfect equanimity. It seems to me that it is not necessarily helpful to tell someone to react with equinimity if they have not developed sufficient equinimity. Otherwise we could all save ourselves a lot of work and time, instead of meditating regularly for years, and going on retreats and reading books, we could just react with equanimity in every situation and save ourselves a lot of trouble.
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Honinbo, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 5:41 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 5:38 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

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Jim Smith:
When a Goenka teacher says, "react with equinimity" is that a specific instruction to do something they teach in the class?

Or is it a platitude like, "don't worry, be happy"? Because it sounds easy enough to say but not necessarily something that can necessarily be done. Even awakening has stages, and almost no one has perfect equanimity. It seems to me that it is not necessarily helpful to tell someone to react with equinimity if they have not developed sufficient equinimity.
Is as you say, basically the only instruction apart from the correct technique is to "keep equanimity" which if used perfectly is enough. But if you are a beginner can be not easy. Lets say it's the center of Vipassana, it doesn't matter what life throw at you, you keep equanimity. Throught the practice of Vipassana you develop it, but let's say that if the event you are facing is 200 like you see soemthing really weird on the street and your equanimity level is 50 you are overwhelmed and can even become crazy. This is what I think can happen with the Dark Night for some people. If the event is 55 then your equanimity will raise little by little.
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pieva, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 6:10 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 6:10 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 36 Join Date: 3/15/19 Recent Posts
I am a beginner as well. I also struggle with equanimity. If we didn't, we would become enlightened, wouldn't we?
It's not only the result but also efforts that matter, I am sure.
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pieva, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 6:16 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 6:16 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 36 Join Date: 3/15/19 Recent Posts
Jim Smith:
When a Goenka teacher says, "react with equinimity" is that a specific instruction to do something they teach in the class?
Equanimity according to Goenka is not reacting to pleasure with craving, and to suffering with aversion. He says, that at intellectual level everyone can be wise, but it is more difficult to implement it at the bodily level. And that's where Vipassana technique comes in - to stop bodily reactions at the very basic level and start unrooting the unconscious habbit of craving/aversion.
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pieva, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 6:35 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 6:34 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

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But I would like to know if it's possible to practice Vipassana in Goenka's tradition (I don't know if there are others) without risking "opening" any gate I would regret. Is this possible or will always be a risk? Let's say that I don't want to risk seeing anything "out of this world" on the street. If not maybe I should just focus on Metta-like practices?


Actually, if to believe to Daniel Ingram, you are asking too late. You have experienced A&P, you have crossed the line and there is no way back.
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Honinbo, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 8:56 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 8:56 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 17 Join Date: 7/15/19 Recent Posts
pieva:
But I would like to know if it's possible to practice Vipassana in Goenka's tradition (I don't know if there are others) without risking "opening" any gate I would regret. Is this possible or will always be a risk? Let's say that I don't want to risk seeing anything "out of this world" on the street. If not maybe I should just focus on Metta-like practices?


Actually, if to believe to Daniel Ingram, you are asking too late. You have experienced A&P, you have crossed the line and there is no way back.
I am aware of that, he helped me a lot recently, but for the sentence itself I am still not sure what it means. Also not sure I want to know, I just want to be a good person and help others.
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pieva, modified 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 4:10 PM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/16/19 3:09 PM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

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Honinbo:
Also not sure I want to know, I just want to be a good person and help others.
I agree with this one. To meditate, you do not need to know the stages of a path, where exactly you are or how many paths you have achieved. Quite opposite, it can hinder the progress, as it is clinging and ego justification.

As for the scary stuff, defilements are expected, but should not be a problem for a sane stable person. Just observe..

There is too much focus on A&P and dark night in this forum. Like with tabloid papers, it is popular as it catches attention. But if you made a small enquiry what other practitioners think about the dark night, you would find out that it is not such a big deal. That it is only one aspect of a complex process and might not be even encountered.
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Honinbo, modified 4 Years ago at 7/17/19 2:48 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/17/19 2:32 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

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Well, let's say that my A&P put my world upside down in a way that will never be the same. I felt like losing my sanity too, I thought I would end up naked on the streets hearing voices or enclosed at home afraid of going out. I read a very similar A&P case to mine in the book "A Path with Heart" Daniel recommended me, book that is helping me a lot.

I think I am just too ignorant in all this (a little less now). After reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sot%C4%81panna I understand more and probably I identify mysef with the let go of the 3 fetters. Few days ago I had a weird feeling while walking on the street, like I felt kind of dizzy and suddenly reality changed to FullHD, difficult to explain. Not sure if I am correct anyway.

I will do my best to move on little by little, probably I won't meditate much if this keep things more stable (I am doing just some Metta to try to heal myself). I want to have a family (will get married soon) and don't want it to interfer much (for now, maybe when I am older I will go for it seriously). I am mostly back to "sanity" thanks to my fiancee so I will be always grateful to her. For what I read it will be a challenge but possible. My future wife is a Christian and has been quite scared recently, a bit due to some things I did (just weird). But mostly for the things I say due to understand many things that go against modern Christian Church. Recently I am very interested in the figure of Jesus Christ so I don't mind to read the Bible with her. I would also like to read other Holy Books. I like very much Goenka approach that basically in the core all religions have a message of peace we should focus on.

But I am also wondering if Goenka tradition is something I want to show my friends, I don't want them to maybe pass something like my A&P, but maybe for most of people is not that bad. Indeed I would like to show them what is behind so they can decide to take it or not.

Thanks a lot to all emoticon
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pieva, modified 4 Years ago at 7/18/19 5:29 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/18/19 5:25 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 36 Join Date: 3/15/19 Recent Posts
You think you've gained stream entry? Congratulations! Isn't is a blissful experience? Or are you somewhere else on a map?

I strongly recommend Vipassana to most of my friends, and quite a few of them have tried it out. No traumatic experiences, I must say. What you have had a chance to read, are exceptional experiences or more diligent meditators, and not what the most beginners would encounter. It is those exceptional experiences that are shared in writing, because a description of a mundane experience/moderate changes would not be shared very widely and you are not likely to find such reports on internet. Yet, most of my friends have experienced very positive shifts in their lives.

I was thrilled by my A&P experience, because it was a strong proof that the tool works. After that, I had a growing fear that culminated in panic attack on the last night of the retreat, but I was ready that some puss would come out. It hasn't repeated again in a few years that have passed.

In some ways it is a shame that you have been influenced by Daniel. If you expect fearsome experiences, you are more likely to encounter them. A better approach could be: oh, it is another defilement. That means I've done a good progress. All I need to do is just observe it and it will be over soon.
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Honinbo, modified 4 Years ago at 7/18/19 6:10 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/18/19 6:10 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 17 Join Date: 7/15/19 Recent Posts
Hello Pieva,

actually I don't know, I barely know what is the difference between passing your A&P and reaching SE. Does SE identify with any jhanna?

Anyway, the day I got that feeling I felt that something was going on in my head. Like a permanent soft buzz and suddenly I felt like it something inside clicked in place, like something connected maybe? Bliss I don't know, it was a funny feeling and the day was bright and beautiful. At the moment it was a very beautiful blue sky. I am not really looking for it because I know very little.

Also, Daniel has helped me what cannot be said with a truly long email I sent him. He knew I needed him and he replied and comforted me with the advice I needed in the moment. Right know I accept it better, I am not afraid at night (not so much) anymore, just observe the feeling. Read about it is helping me. Of course I don't want it to interfer with my daily life but that will be my own job I guess. Yes, as you say the important is not become paranoid, if I focus on something to happen, it will probably do.

My beginner thoughts about strong A&Ps is that I had "high energy" before going there and I also took the retreat as very serious work. I had hobbes such as drinking tea (in a serious way), martial arts, Chinese calligraphy, play iGo, etc. All quite relaxing and mindfull. Let's say that I believe that you don't need to meditate so much, is more important how you live. If you are a good person, aware of your environment, have had the luck of having a loving family or accept yours, kind to people, don't get mad at your gf if she wants to have party with her friends without you, etc. Surpass all these cravings and desires will do similar as meditation, you stop generating new sankhara and maybe even remove old one. Just my thoughts. Am I more content now that before? No, I was like this before (maybe not 100%) but with much more knowledge perhaps? Well, now I have a new hobbie XD.

Yes, Vipassana is great but maybe good to warn people a bit, in a way that it doesn't scare prevent them from going.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts emoticon
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pieva, modified 4 Years ago at 7/18/19 9:36 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/18/19 9:36 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 36 Join Date: 3/15/19 Recent Posts
The Arising and Passing Away is stage 4 in this map:
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/The+Progress+of+Insight
While fruition (part of stream entry) is stage 15.

Daniel's book has very detailed descriptions. You do not need to read everything in the given order. You can read the chapters that relate to the progress of insight to get a better idea.
https://www.mctb.org/
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Honinbo, modified 4 Years ago at 7/19/19 1:05 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/19/19 1:04 AM

RE: Retake healthy practice after strong A&P during Goenka Vipassana

Posts: 17 Join Date: 7/15/19 Recent Posts
Oh! I read the book, but didn't realize where is SE. Then I don't think I am there, too far after just passing the A&P and barely making it to Equanimity emoticon
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