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magik and lottery This Good Self 1/19/11 7:02 PM
RE: magik and lottery Daniel M. Ingram 1/20/11 2:08 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/20/11 2:11 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/22/11 3:47 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/22/11 6:40 AM
RE: magik and lottery Tommy M 1/22/11 9:06 AM
RE: magik and lottery Ona Kiser 1/22/11 5:34 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/23/11 4:00 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/25/11 2:03 AM
RE: magik and lottery Crazy Wisdom 1/25/11 2:58 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/25/11 9:59 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/27/11 3:39 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/27/11 6:24 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/27/11 7:00 AM
RE: magik and lottery Bruno Loff 1/27/11 9:54 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/27/11 10:24 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/27/11 10:59 PM
RE: magik and lottery Tommy M 1/20/11 8:09 AM
RE: magik and lottery Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 1/20/11 11:12 AM
RE: magik and lottery Tommy M 1/20/11 3:53 PM
RE: magik and lottery Trent . 1/28/11 9:39 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 1/28/11 10:44 PM
RE: magik and lottery Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 1/29/11 7:40 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/2/11 7:18 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/4/11 11:53 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/6/11 6:42 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/10/11 4:59 AM
RE: magik and lottery D C 2/10/11 5:27 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/14/11 2:33 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/15/11 4:43 AM
RE: magik and lottery Nikolai . 2/15/11 8:38 AM
RE: magik and lottery D C 2/15/11 6:02 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/15/11 7:15 PM
RE: magik and lottery Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 2/15/11 7:22 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/15/11 7:51 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/15/11 9:52 PM
RE: magik and lottery Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 2/15/11 10:19 PM
RE: magik and lottery Bruno Loff 2/16/11 1:41 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 2/16/11 12:28 AM
RE: magik and lottery Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 2/16/11 8:35 AM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 3/3/11 9:03 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 3/8/11 9:37 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 4/28/11 10:11 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 7/5/11 10:10 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 8/28/11 10:06 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 8/29/11 2:34 AM
RE: magik and lottery Ross A. K. 8/29/11 1:13 PM
RE: magik and lottery Tommy M 8/29/11 4:05 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 5/22/12 8:33 PM
RE: magik and lottery Some Guy 5/23/12 5:12 PM
RE: magik and lottery This Good Self 5/23/12 8:02 PM
RE: magik and lottery Bruno Loff 2/15/11 8:35 AM
magik and lottery
Answer
1/19/11 7:02 PM
Ok, so I wouldn't mind winning the lottery.

Any tips appreciated, particularly if you've had some success with magik. If you haven't yet had success but reckon you have a good method that just needs work, I want to hear of it. 'Ian And', I'm particularly interested in your comments since reading your very comprehensive instruction on the jhanas.

Thanks.

edit: so as to make it a bit more interesting to readers, I will change things to include sports betting, stock market or lottery, and will try post my bets before the event, (whether I actually put money on them or not). That way every one can see if it's working, and what may need tweaking in terms of my technique. Please note also that I would prefer a technique that does not require me to get into solid 4th jhana because I don't have that ability (though I might be willing to put time into that if you can show me it works). I understand there are ways of doing it without 4th jhana absorption.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/20/11 2:08 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Magick 101:

A) Really dig into exactly what you want, but realize that exactly what you want is probably something more fundamental than winning the lottery, something more generic, basic, personal, deep, heartfelt, close, simple, human, resonant.

emoticon For each answer ask if there was some other way that thing could be fulfilled, and if so, if there is some other thing that could do it, you haven't reduced it to its fundamental note, its root cause.

C) This is a really bodily thing in some ways, a personal story thing in others, but more than that, it is an emotional/fundamental drive thing. Thus, if you are still at the level of some specific object, reach deeper inside to find that deeper thing that is driving the looking, the quest, the desire for a magickal result.

D) When you find the thing, the deep, base note, root thing, then imagine you have the thing and feel out the causality of how you got it and the causal implications for yourself and others now that you, in your imagination, have it. Be encouraged to go into uncomfortable places with this. Imagine yourself with the results as clearly as you can.

E) When you are satisfied that you have clearly identified the object of your passion and desire and are fearless about the implications of how you would get it and how it would affect your world and the world around you without reservation or guilt or hesitation, then proceed:

F) Attain to the most exalted state you are capable of by whatever safe means you have at your disposal. The 4th jhana is the standard recommended state, but actually if you can get to the 8th, that is better. Taking some time to really work to there, say some number of hours or even a whole day of whatever gets you there, meditation, ecstatic dancing, power lifting, skydiving, or whatever it is (Magicians chuckle, nod and wink here...), can be of real benefit, with your goal and object in your mind as clearly as you can make it, feeling deeply into the core of your being the fundamental rightful place of that desired thing in your life and know that all will work out.

G) Emerge from that ecstatic state, and immediately thereafter, in the most careful yet utterly fearless way, let fly the fundamental quality of your passion into the universe to resonate with Fate itself in the perfect way. If you use phrasing to do this, which can be helpful, be absolutely sure the language really is what you want and really works, being mindful of the curious loopholes that the Magickal world can find in your specific intention or phrasing that might really surprise you. Picture ancient and clever imps with law degrees reviewing your poorly worded request, cackling at your folly, and pulling levers of causality, that is, should your intention err from the pure and most fundamental thing you could wish for, which is why steps A-E are so utterly critical. If you feel some nagging suspicion when you emerge from the ecstatic state, a generic request for something beneficial and not harmful to all involved is far superior to a poorly conceived plan for something specific that wasn't really the key thing you wanted after all!

H) That done, let it go and forget about it. You have done your part. Live your life as best you can and see what happens. Recording methods, specific result asked for and exactly how and the actual results in some sort of diary is standard advice.

Then there are always the stages of awakening, the joys of watching a sunset, sitting around with good friends sharing a well-made meal, etc...

Daniel

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/20/11 2:11 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Thanks Daniel. That's the sort of answer I needed.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/20/11 8:09 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
There's pretty much nothing I can add to what Dan's said above, that's the most precise and workable route to magick I've seen since most sources will tell you to create a whole host of correspondances, specific ritual conditions, banishings etc. so what he's said is pretty much all you'd need!

The only other input I could offer is on formulating and writing down your intent, since I've found that this can make a considerable difference (and is also quite good fun!) to the precision of the result. If you want to do magick to win the lottery, you'll find that following Dan's instructions will probably give you more than you could ever obtain by winning the lottery but I'll leave that for you to find out.

As far as expressing your intent, there's various ways in which this can be done:

The basic formulation of intent.

The sentence you write down, should be as precise and unambiguous as possible, this goes for all the following methods which all benefit from using this technique as your foundation. Spend a bit of time looking at the language you're using, you've got some knowledge of psychology so put it to use and examine the way in which you phrase your desire.

Example:

"It is my desire to get a new house." - Ok, so you want a house but you've already created at least two specific requests within that simple sentence: "new" and "house". This probably sounds silly and a bit anal but it's the way things work at this level and being specific, or at least creating a phrase which has more scope for us to get to the outcome we want to obtain, is important as it allows us to examine what we're aiming for and makes us think about how to phrase it best. Avoid using "It's", "that's", "what's" and unnecessary abbreviations as it seems to work better.

So, we examine what it is we actually want from this. We want a new place to live, but is it rented or mortgaged, where would your ideal location be, are you financially able to buy or rent your dream abode if you were to get it? To cut to the chase, we realise that all we want is a new place to live so you go and look at the physical availablility of places you'd like to live, work out your budget etc etc

Do you see what I mean here? Explore the variables and eliminate that which you don't need in the equation, phrase it in a more direct way, this isn't your "desire" anymore, it's your "will" so direct it and give it a path to follow which creates the outcome you want. Efficient use of language is the way to set this up before launching it to the universe.

From this we can then rephrase our intent as something more specific and useful like: "It is my will to find a new flat to rent in Yourtown, Whereverville". Try to avoid timescales as it creates a whole other level of variables to consider, unless that's what you're intending.


Sigils and Mantras

- Letter elimination method precedes any preparation of sigil or mantra. It involves removing vowels (although I prefer not to strictly stick to this for a number of reasons) and repeating consonants within your phrase to create a set of letters which contains your intent while being unintelligtible to the conscious mind.

Example:

"It is my will to find a new flat to rent in Yourtown, Whereverville" then becomes "Its my wl o fnd a e r u hv" or, to run it all together: ITSMYWLOFNDAERUHV.

From here there are a few ways we can go but they both come down to one thing: Making the intent unintelligible to the conscious mind. The reason for this is....well....reason! If you try to rationalise casting a sigil while you're doing it then you'll scupper your efforts, entering 4th or 8th jhana will allow one to bypass this mechanism.


Mantra - We take the letters of our phrase as we've constructed them in the above example and rearrange them into something that resembles a standard mantra. This is a very individual thing and your method may differ from mine but hopefully this will give you an example.

Example: ITSMYWLOFNDAERUHV could be rebuilt phonetically as Eets-Miy-Well-Ohff-Enda-Eeroo-Hevu. It's arbitrary and what matters is that it works for you as a rhythmically repetitive phrase which can be repeated until the mind automatically picks it up and runs with it.


Sigil - This is harder to demonstrate visually on a forum like this so I'll find a few links for you to check out. Basically what we do is take the letters from our previous reduction and turn them into a picture, a symbol or some visual representation constructed using out letters. This is tremendously good fun to do and can be part of the ritual although it often helps to prepare the sigils at least a few days prior to casting them as it means we're more likely to forget about what they're actually asking for.

Baptists Head article on A.O. Spare and sigils with some good links included.

Some website with a decent bit of info on sigils.

Hopefully some of that was of some use to you. Good luck with your efforts, there's fun to be had from this stuff but remember the phrase "Be careful what you wish for" as you'll soon find that it's very, very, very important since you just might get it and really wish you hadn't.

Btw, stick to Dan's Magick 101 lesson for technique rather than delving into stuff like charging via gnosis or the "elixir" mentioned on the second link. I'll leave it to your imagination what the "elixir" actually is. emoticon

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/20/11 11:12 AM as a reply to Tommy M.
Hehe, this is interesting stuff. Have you had any successes with these things that you'd be willing to share?

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/20/11 3:53 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Aye, I've had quite a lot of success with sigils in particular but there's also been some unpleasant back-firing, far more instances of failed workings and several unintended results through the years. I haven't worked with sigils for a while now but I'll tell you a few of the more entertaining ones.....

I once created a sigil for obtaining weed which was quite effective, not exactly High Magick material but the approach is more practical. I've cast sigils for jobs, lyrical ideas, astral projection and some of the siddhi's with varying degrees of success, lucid dreaming, dhyana, guitar riffs, inspiration for writing, I could go on but the value of sigils is in their simplicity and practical application. So long as you're not doing something which could potentially damage or be injurious, on whatever plane, to yourself or others then you basically have carte blanche. This is why these techniques end up being abused by those who don't also train themselves in Morality and Wisdom, you can cast a sigil for whatever you want but you must, I repeat must, consider the implications of your intent and not try to interfere with the will of another individual.

That last line is important to note, from experience I've seen how, even with the best intentions, you can get involved in someone else's situation and end up making a total arse of things because you thought you were doing the right thing. Another outcome is that you end up taking that persons problems on your shoulders when you should really have been concentrating on dealing with your own life. Basically, send them lovingkindness and all the compassion you can but don't manipulate the life of another without being willing to deal with the potential universal shitstorm you may inadvertently unleash!

Back to the funny stuff, a favourite of mine was a sigil I made for invisibility! Now, this requires a little bit of explaination in case what I'm saying is being taken literally, by invisibility I mean that one becomes less likely to be noticed due to a decrease in the non-verbal signals normally transmitted during daily life. It's not that you're literally invisible but you're able to go about your business with minimal interruption or physical interaction which is useful for those Dark Night moments when you can't be arsed dealing with people. Where I lived was a pretty rough place, being able to function at a level where you become less noticeable is useful for avoiding fights and gangs of chumps looking for trouble. I'm not proud of it but I also used the same sigil to facilitate shoplifting from Asda (the UK version of Wal-Mart) a few years ago when I had no money.

There's more stories I'll send you privately 'cause me talking any more about what I've done won't teach anyone anything about it. Doing it will prove it's efficiency but there's this suspension of disbelief required and the ability to wholeheartedly believe that what you're doing will work. Forgetting about it afterwards is essential as any rational examination will unravel the threads you've tied with with the sigil.

There's a knack to working with sigils that takes a bit of practice, your first few times are generally quite effective but there comes a Dark Night-style period, something I've found when learning anything at all, where you totally loose the ability to work effectively, as in you don't get the result, find it difficult to integrate what you're learning or loose the ability to perceive the changes in reality when your will is being carried out, but this, like the Progress on Insight, eventually leads to mastery.

There's a lot of interesting stuff out there on the subject but, like anything else, there's a lot of shit too but it all comes down to a very basic and practical technique which will either work, or it won't. I love Dan's "Magick 101" as it break the whole thing down to these really straightfoward steps, all I wanted to do was show some other available methods of creating a sigil, or statement of intent. Something you'll begin to find though is that, as you get success with sigils, you'll find less need to use them as you'll realise how many of your desires can be addressed without magick. Sigil work is quite materialistic although it's possible to use them for non-material ends such as astral projection and inspiration from unexpected sources.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/22/11 3:47 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Predict Nadal vs Tomic Aus Open, 6-3 6-3 6-4. To start in 10 mins or so. Entered 8:45 pm Aus time, no edits.

Just a taster. Very small bet on "no love sets".

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/22/11 6:40 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Bet won, $1.27 yield. Probably just luck. No indication of future seeing on my part.

Final result Nadal 6-2 7-5 6-3

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/22/11 9:06 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
There's rarely any sense of "predicting" what's going to happen in any clear way, if you've cast your sigil before placing the bet then you'll find that any choice is made intuitively, it's up to you to take action and recognise this as the opportunity to act. There's a balance between awareness of the conscious act of placing the bet and forgetting about any sort of desire for the result.

It's good that you're aware that the success could purely be down to luck, be aware of how those conditions "feel" to you and see if there's a difference when you're more certain of your success. Well done with your win!

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/22/11 5:34 PM as a reply to Tommy M.
There's also the option of broadening the intent: "My will is to receive money" kind of thing, instead of winning a specific bet. I once tried to micro-manage an office drama situation, and found it quickly got really complicated. It was far more useful to redo the sigil focusing on the big picture: "My will is to be happy at work." (It wasn't that exactly, but for the sake of argument.) HOW exactly that settled out I left up to ...whoever handles these things. Rather than wishing Jane would move to the other office and my boss would stop asking me this and that. Just a thought.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/23/11 4:00 AM as a reply to Tommy M.
I agree tommy, the feel of it is crucial. I'm trying to maximize the feel by whatever methods I can. ona, I will consider broader vs more specific statements. I'm not using sigils though.

I've decided to restrict bets to events that I have no knowledge of. Otherwise I'm just doing what any punter would do.

I'm in Australia and I have no knowledge of US sports or sports teams, so...

Next bet: Minnesota to win vs Houston in the NBA, 24th Jan.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/25/11 2:03 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Loss.

"Minnesota to win" - perhaps meant Minnesota in the NHL vs Chicago. Also at very long odds. Not betting, just watching. A loss here would tell me what I'm doing has no predictive value.

Note to self: If i bet on something I have an interest in, it's very likely I will be using intuition, which is not the aim of this exercise. If I bet on something I have no knowledge of, maybe I need to seek more details, like date and team and opposition etc. to narrow it down. Likely I need far deeper absorption.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/25/11 2:58 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
A good friend of mine has won the lottery two times with numbers she had gotten in a dream just previously. She also won the lottery with my birth date and personal security number. She wanted to use it because she is convinced I always bring her luck. Actually, almost every time I am in her shop the number of customers increases dramaticly. If I could just figure out how to bring more luck into my own life things would be sweet.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/25/11 9:59 PM as a reply to Crazy Wisdom.
Thanks for the input Crazy.

For me, feeling good and feeling really certain is the key. How to get there is the challenge, and it seems people use all manner of different methods. I'm using a hybrid method, but basically it's similar to Daniel's.

I wonder if it's your presence makes your friend feel good, and that it's that feel good factor (ahead of any other factor) that helps her winning chances? And if that is the case, good on you. There must be a way for you to share in the winnings.

Update: Minnesota Wild (NHL) won. I managed to get an in-play bet on at $1.40, but could have backed them at $3 yesterday. They were definitely not expected to win, but came home with a 4-2 win, so that gives me some confidence.

notes: Einstein told us that the future has already happened, and the sages reckon it can be accessed, so who knows.

Next bet, Aus stock market - stock code IMP. Have no idea about the company. Currently trading at 11.5c. To reach 15c within 2-3 weeks, then 60c over 12 months.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/27/11 3:39 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Two more win bets on the tennis and NBA since my last post. Both picked by asking for a name or 'sounds like' word to come to mind. Stock: IMP hasn't moved yet. Not sure there's much point posting my bets, unless anyone is interested... are you? While I'm making money, it's not a great deal because my bets are small, and changing to bigger bets (like the stock market) could affect my psyche. Hit rate is very high, only one miss but a small sample makes it a little meaningless at this point in time.

Note to self: embodying wealth seems to be the best technique so far. Creating the physical changes in the body that represent a wealthy mindset. 'How can my body and actions reflect this attitude of wealth?'. Getting really loose about throwing money at this market or that. Understanding that any sense of tension during a match does seem to influence the score against you (weird, but consistent). Makes me wonder if 'reality' is just a infinite number of parallel universes. In one universe I get nervous and lose the bet. In parallel universe #1, I am relaxed and everything else is identical except that I win the bet. Hmm. Comments?

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/27/11 6:24 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Another win, this one at $2.10. Federer vs Djokovic - total games played.

I watched the match which seemed not to help things. I became tense, wanting an outcome, and this seemed to make things go against me. Again, there's this matching of my feelings and the tone of the game.

Two possibilities. The first is obvious: I am picking up on the vibe and tone of the match and my feelings quickly react to what's likely to occur on field...so when it happens, it feels like I made it happen, when I didn't at all. The second possibility is I'm somehow creating the outcome that I am feeling (co-creation as the new agers like to call it). What evidence do I have? Well when I purposefully relax and trust (embody trust), the game would suddenly change in my favour, like an 'observer effect'. If reality is as wispy and immaterial as the sages say, creating a universe where I win could be a possibility. Sounds ludicrous, I know. Could only happen if parallel universes are possible, and I don't really know how they work anyway! emoticon Might do a bit of reading on that.

Summary: 5 wins 1 loss, ahead comfortably. 1 currently break even (stock market)..

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/27/11 7:00 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Found this:

"The Many-Worlds Interpretation" posits the existence of multiple universes in which an observed system displays all possible states to all possible observers. In this model, observation of a system does not change the behavior of the system—it simply answers the question of which universe(s) the observer(s) is(are) located in: In some universes the observer would observe one result from one state of the system, and in others the observer would observe a different result from a different state of the system.

Anyone an expert on this?

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/27/11 9:54 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
I'm curious about the outcome of your experiment, please keep us posted if you're up to it.

I think that the whole metaphysical speculation is pointless, though.

I'm curious how far you can approximate the experiment from a random experiment. It would be required that, a-priori, you had the least possible understanding of what is going on the bet you make. E.g., if you know basketball, you might have some knowledge of which team is likely to win beforehand, which gives you an increased chance of guessing it.

Why don't you try to make a magic act to try to guess the outcome of 1000 coin flips with greater than 10% advantage over random guessing? I.e., try to get at least 600 guesses correct.

The probability of you actually doing this is less than 2.5%, but maybe if you manage to surf into the right world, among the many worlds... emoticon

If you are unsatisfied with generating randomness this way, and would like a way that uses quantum physics, you could subscribe to the Quantum random bit generator service, to get actual quantum randomness (which maybe you could manipulate using quantum correlation in one of the many-worlds emoticon )

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/27/11 10:24 PM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Second loss, NBA this time. Strangely, I knew this was going to be a loss for me, but in the spirit of experimentation I put the bet on anyway. No matter which side of the bet I was on, I just knew it before entering it would go against me. What's that about, I wonder? On previous days I had quite high confidence, but today I felt a bit average after a poor sleep. Again, the *feeling aspect* seems most important.

Importantly, previous winning streaks in other markets almost always result in a feeling of quite strong agitation building up. I believe this is the key block to my success. My mind starts to go at a very rapid rate, and it's very uncomfortable physically too. Sleep is almost impossible. I recall now that this happened last night. I got up, had a few scotches on ice and got back to sleep!

I really need to question what's happening when I get into that agitated state. There's an element of self-sabotage creeping in I'm sure of it. I'm going to revisit those early questions in Daniel's Magick101.
------------------
Thanks Bruno. I have tried something similar with cards. Result was slightly above chance as I recall. But I honestly feel that having a reward at stake is very important here. It seems to change the dynamics quite strongly. And yes, I'm trying to bet on markets I have no knowledge of, in order to avoid good intuitive guesses.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/27/11 10:59 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Early thoughts on the cause of the agitation:

- negative subconscious thoughts creep in, such as: "this is going well now, but I doubt I can maintain the correct attitude for very long". I then try to combat those negative thoughts/feelings, thereby massively overworking my mind and creating agitation. This seems to happen at the subconscious level, making it even more difficult to interpret. In trying to combat negative thoughts, they just get stronger. The following day, outcomes match this new and dominant negative feeling.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/28/11 9:39 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
SN 4.20:

The entirety
of a mountain of gold,
of solid bullion:
even twice that
wouldn't suffice
for one person.
Knowing this,
live evenly,
in tune with the contemplative life.

When you see stress,
and from where it comes,
how can you incline
to sensual pleasures?
Knowing acquisition
to be a bond in the world,
train for
its subduing.


Thag 6.13:

Rain soddens what's covered
& doesn't sodden what's exposed.
So open up what's covered up,
so that it won't get soddened by the rain.

Attacked by death
is the world,
surrounded by aging,
beset by the arrow of craving,
always obscured by desire.

Attacked by death
is the world,
& encircled by aging,
constantly beaten, with no shelter,
like a thief
sentenced to punishment.

They encroach like masses of flame,
these three:
death, aging, & illness.
There's no strength to confront them,
no speed to run away.

Make the day not-in-vain,
a little or a lot.
However much
the day passes,
that's how much less
is life.
Your last day approaches.
This isn't your time
to be heedless.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn04/sn04.020.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/thag/thag.06.13.than.html

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/28/11 10:44 PM as a reply to Trent ..
Trent, I can relate to those pieces of writing up to a point, but I'm not after this money purely for the sake of pleasure. The reason for me seeking money is that my depression has made work extremely difficult, and I can now only work part time. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the Word (all capital cities in Australia are now horrendously expensive) and I cannot afford the rent. In summer, with no air conditioning, there's no escaping the heat. It's a matter of comfort and sanity. When I was younger I had reasonable financial security, and things were so much easier to cope with.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
1/29/11 7:40 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
Trent, I can relate to those pieces of writing up to a point, but I'm not after this money purely for the sake of pleasure. The reason for me seeking money is that my depression has made work extremely difficult, and I can now only work part time. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the Word (all capital cities in Australia are now horrendously expensive) and I cannot afford the rent. In summer, with no air conditioning, there's no escaping the heat. It's a matter of comfort and sanity. When I was younger I had reasonable financial security, and things were so much easier to cope with.


Daniel M. Ingram:

A) Really dig into exactly what you want, but realize that exactly what you want is probably something more fundamental than winning the lottery, something more generic, basic, personal, deep, heartfelt, close, simple, human, resonant.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/2/11 7:18 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
A few more bets. Break even basically. Felt attached to the outcome, which really wrecks things. Decided to meditate on "I'll never get anything I want" and to really mean it. Just got on the computer and I noticed my stock (code: IMP) up 13% on good volume. This is a technique I remember using for something else previously, and it worked very well. Of course the desire itself is always there, but to be able to let go of *trying to mentally create an outcome* looks like it's important.

If I really had faith in Providence (let's call it that), then there would be no need for mental effort or straining (attachment). I'd simply state my desire and watch it all unfold exactly the way I wanted. So by saying: "I'll never get anything I want", that's a way of letting go attachment to outcome.

edit: IMP now up 26% for the day.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/4/11 11:53 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
New stock: IPT ... Australian market. IMP holding gains for the moment.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/6/11 6:42 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
IPT made a good start: up 13% on day 1.
IMP has made it to 15c, which was the target in my earlier post (+30%). Have to decide whether to sell or wait for 60c.

(note these were chosen by hearing the sound 'IMP'. IPT is 'Impact Mining', and IMP...obvious)

edit: request must have no mental resistance when stated, and be very gentle and quiet. Feeling good is absolutely essential. Trying to do more things to feel good, as opposed to changing thoughts which is too hard.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/10/11 4:59 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Sold both stocks: +48% on IMP. -9% on IPT. Same stake on each so did pretty well for the time frame.

Next stock I think is HRR. Just looked at the company data/chart and it seems dead, so this will be interesting. Haven't bought yet. Looking for some sort of entree.

Got a lotto ticket for the weekend since there was a jackpot of 20mill.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/10/11 5:27 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
It should give you pause that the great magician and arhat Alan Chapman had to cut short his world trip due to lack of funds. Now, if he can't magic up a few more dollars when the need is there.....

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/14/11 2:33 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
No win on the lotto. Damnit all. Very low expectation surrounding this. Need to get over the idea that because mathematically it's a low chance that this means I might not win it. You can't look at it that way and win, surely? Will have another shot next weekend.

Shares going ok. Had another winner today +15% since Friday (BRD). HRR still watching: was up 7% today but the trading is very thin and I have no idea what's going on, so I have no confidence to buy this yet.

I like the practice of reflecting on this statement: "After my intention and action, I have absolutely no power to influence the outcome". This releases me from trying to control the outcome in my favour; it's also very true. Trying to control = lack of faith. So you see how it works. It loosens me up. I prefer it to "I'll never get what i want" - too negative.

I still can't get into jhana, but it seems like it might not be necessary.

Now: does detachment result from feeling good or does feeling good result from detachment? Which is primary, or do they go together? Which is more powerful?
Which is easier to generate de novo?

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/15/11 4:43 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
My body is giving me quite reliable signals in the instant before I place a trade. Yesterday I felt a tiny jolt of fear/regret just as I pondered clicking the buy button. I realize this probably always happens before bad trades. Turned out to be a break-even trade, so no great harm done, but certainly not the gainer I expected consciously. Must remember always to tune into my body's reactions.

Would anyone like to volunteer for a 'psychic reading'?!!

RE: magik and lottery
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2/15/11 8:35 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
Trent, I can relate to those pieces of writing up to a point, but I'm not after this money purely for the sake of pleasure. The reason for me seeking money is that my depression has made work extremely difficult, and I can now only work part time. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the Word (all capital cities in Australia are now horrendously expensive) and I cannot afford the rent. In summer, with no air conditioning, there's no escaping the heat. It's a matter of comfort and sanity. When I was younger I had reasonable financial security, and things were so much easier to cope with.


So you are making bets and playing the lottery in the hope of improving your financial security?

RE: magik and lottery
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2/15/11 8:38 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
My body is giving me quite reliable signals in the instant before I place a trade. Yesterday I felt a tiny jolt of fear/regret just as I pondered clicking the buy button. I realize this probably always happens before bad trades. Turned out to be a break-even trade, so no great harm done, but certainly not the gainer I expected consciously. Must remember always to tune into my body's reactions.

Would anyone like to volunteer for a 'psychic reading'?!!


Hey CCC,

I'll volunteer myself!!

emoticon

Nick

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/15/11 6:02 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
My body is giving me quite reliable signals in the instant before I place a trade. Yesterday I felt a tiny jolt of fear/regret just as I pondered clicking the buy button. I realize this probably always happens before bad trades. Turned out to be a break-even trade, so no great harm done, but certainly not the gainer I expected consciously. Must remember always to tune into my body's reactions....!


Interesting. I recall reading about California artist Robert Irwin who went through a phase early in life of playing the horses - and making money doing it. His method was knowledge allied with listening to his body/intuition - just as you speak of above. That's a magic I can dig. I myself have the not so useful ability to look at a movie listing and with no further information be able to judge whether going to see it will be a good/bad time.

Irwin, btw, is an awesome artist dealing in light and altering environments in often imperceptible ways to influence perception. His 'biography' is here: http://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Forgetting-Name-Thing-Sees/dp/0520256093/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297813851&sr=1-1

As one reviewer said -... 'its all about presence and perception'... Good artist for the sort of yogis found on this board.


sorry, little off-topic, there. Good luck with your magic. I'd still go with trying to perceive/identify what you really want/need and aiming for that. Why aren't you doing just that?

RE: magik and lottery
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2/15/11 7:15 PM as a reply to D C.
Hi Nick, I'll do it as a PM ok? First attempt. emoticon

DC I like the title of that book. Art is something I've done a bit of myself, on an amateur level. In fact i found it really quietened my mind doing art because I had to see things as they really were, without any filters. Trying to see things as if for the first time.

Bruno - you know the answer. What are you getting at, that I shouldn't do it?? Lotto is not something I'll spend much money on, because no one in history has made a consistent living playing lotto. Betting and trading are areas where 5% of starters make huge returns, so at least I know it's possible. I'm trying a new approach that doesn't involve the traditional methods; ones which I'm already well trained in.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/15/11 7:22 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
Bruno - you know the answer. What are you getting at, that I shouldn't do it?? Lotto is not something I'll spend much money on, because no one in history has made a consistent living playing lotto. Betting and trading are areas where 5% of starters make huge returns, so at least I know it's possible. I'm trying a new approach that doesn't involve the traditional methods; ones which I'm already well trained in.


I think what Bruno means, and what D C meant by:
D C:
I'd still go with trying to perceive/identify what you really want/need and aiming for that. Why aren't you doing just that?


... is just that you don't seem to be going for the root cause. You said so yourself:

C C C:
Trent, I can relate to those pieces of writing up to a point, but I'm not after this money purely for the sake of pleasure. The reason for me seeking money is that my depression has made work extremely difficult, and I can now only work part time. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the Word (all capital cities in Australia are now horrendously expensive) and I cannot afford the rent. In summer, with no air conditioning, there's no escaping the heat. It's a matter of comfort and sanity. When I was younger I had reasonable financial security, and things were so much easier to cope with.


And seeing how step 1 was:
Daniel M. Ingram:

A) Really dig into exactly what you want, but realize that exactly what you want is probably something more fundamental than winning the lottery, something more generic, basic, personal, deep, heartfelt, close, simple, human, resonant.


it seems you've skipped ahead, and instead of asking for relief from your depression or better living conditions, you are asking to make more money. Might part of it be that the bets/lottery would be easier to see results with? (e.g., your depression subsides, or your living conditions improve, after asking for that, but you cannot know for sure whether it was just luck or if your efforts had anything to do with it). You're not even asking for more financial security - you're asking for a very specific thing indeed, a way to get at what you want, whereas it seems like what you have to do is directly go for what you want (and not just one way you thought of doing it). give the universe some flexibility, ya know?

RE: magik and lottery
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2/15/11 7:51 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
I'm considering what you're saying Beo. Thanks.

RE: magik and lottery
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2/15/11 9:52 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Nick what happened? There was so much lag I couldn't work out what was going on with the chat.

RE: magik and lottery
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2/15/11 10:19 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
Nick what happened? There was so much lag I couldn't work out what was going on with the chat.


You sure that was lag? Maybe it was psychic emanations! =)

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/16/11 12:28 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
So I established for myself that feeling good is essential. There's a certain expectancy that creeps into your being when you feel good, and it this expectancy of success seems to be a reliable marker of a positive event outcome when trading or betting. Feeling good I'd describe as light, relaxed, carefree, flowing, pinging, smiley, "in the zone"....that sort of thing.

C C C:


Now: does detachment result from feeling good or does feeling good result from detachment? Which is primary, or do they go together? Which is more powerful?
Which is easier to generate de novo?


It seems that feeling good is more likely to follow on from detachment, rather than the other way around (and thank you New Orleans for teaching me this lesson. emoticon ) So, that would make detachment more powerful. Pleasure (pleasant thoughts or happenings, doing fun things, spending money) can lead to letting go, but seems a bit harder to initiate.

The things to detach from are the things I am most bound to, rather than just a general letting go. Money, approval, etc. All the things my ego wants more of.

How best to detach?

1. muscle relaxation
2. self talk
3. jhana (probably the ideal but I can't do it...still practicing).
4. other??? < please add suggestions.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/16/11 1:41 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:

Bruno - you know the answer. What are you getting at, that I shouldn't do it?? Lotto is not something I'll spend much money on, because no one in history has made a consistent living playing lotto. Betting and trading are areas where 5% of starters make huge returns, so at least I know it's possible. I'm trying a new approach that doesn't involve the traditional methods; ones which I'm already well trained in.


Actually I thought you were doing this merely as a curiosity, that you weren't actually considering it as a means of financial comfort.

I think that if you do it in the hopes of turning it into a dependable income, even if that hope just discretely sneaks in, then it is only natural that:

CCC:

I watched the match which seemed not to help things. I became tense, wanting an outcome,
(...)
Felt attached to the outcome, which really wrecks things. Decided to meditate on "I'll never get anything I want" and to really mean it.
(...)
No win on the lotto. Damnit all.
(...)
Yesterday I felt a tiny jolt of fear/regret just as I pondered clicking the buy button.


That's all I wanted to point out, I should've just stated it out cleanly in the first place. Claudiu's comments are on the mark though.

---

Although you can certainly work towards detachment, maybe you would prefer to work towards open mindedness instead --- live life as a question, permanently asking 'how am I experiencing this moment of being alive' to your whole field of experience. They really end up in different places.

There is nothing that works towards detachment as well as trying to be equanimous with pain. For instance, if you sit for an hour, your body starts aching, and you decide to sit on, while attempting to remain equanimous. Or if you do tricky yoga poses (which will cause pain to an uninitiated in under a minute). The attempt to remain equanimous is essencial (the mental exercise at some point becomes just always returning to equanimity). But the practice is super-unpleasant, and I've never took it very far.

In either case, maybe you would benefit from attaining stream entry? Suffering goes down considerably after that is attained (rather than making one just being detached from it), and it paves the way for higher paths where there is even less suffering (not to mention AF where there is none), and it can be done in relatively short time, if you know the correct instructions very well, and have access to some retreat time. I guess that less suffering, rather than any particular means to attain it (such as better income), is what we all actually want emoticon

Take care man!

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
2/16/11 8:35 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
It seems that feeling good is more likely to follow on from detachment, rather than the other way around (and thank you New Orleans for teaching me this lesson. emoticon ) So, that would make detachment more powerful. Pleasure (pleasant thoughts or happenings, doing fun things, spending money) can lead to letting go, but seems a bit harder to initiate.

The things to detach from are the things I am most bound to, rather than just a general letting go. Money, approval, etc. All the things my ego wants more of.

How best to detach?

1. muscle relaxation
2. self talk
3. jhana (probably the ideal but I can't do it...still practicing).
4. other??? < please add suggestions.


I'd be careful about detaching... the goal, at least of Vipassana, is not to detach or dis-embed, as I found out here. Similarly, the goal of AF is not to detach yourself from your feelings and identity, but to cause them to abate by understanding them fully. In a sense you 'detach' from them in that you accept them when they're happening and don't try to hide from them, and they stop bothering you as much once that happens, but you don't do it by trying to place them 'over there' where they won't bother 'you'. That's repression, and I think it's well-established repressing feelings doesn't lead to good things.

If what you want is to feel good:

C C C:
So I established for myself that feeling good is essential. There's a certain expectancy that creeps into your being when you feel good, and it this expectancy of success seems to be a reliable marker of a positive event outcome when trading or betting. Feeling good I'd describe as light, relaxed, carefree, flowing, pinging, smiley, "in the zone"....that sort of thing.


then can I recommend the practice of HAIETMOBA? It seems specifically designed to accomplish that goal - that is, to set 'feeling good' as the baseline in your day-to-day activities.

EDIT: Oh, I see now that you meant "feeling good is essential for success in using my body as an indicator to bet", not "feeling good is essential in general." But still, HAIETMOBA will cause you to feel good more often; perhaps from that good mood you will make better intuitive decisions.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
3/3/11 9:03 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
I haven't made any bets lately because the meditation has totally fucked my mood.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
3/8/11 9:37 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
This post needed changing so as to incorporate earlier posts and others' inputs. Sort of a review post.

Theories and ideas:

1. Feeling good (or at least ‘ok’) as a base, then having a feeling of confident expectancy on top seems to be ideal.
2. Being in tune with the market/game is the preferred mode (as opposed to "I feel confident good therefore everything I do will win")...however, see point 3.
3. One’s actions tend to validate one’s feelings. In other words, if you feel really bad, you will tend to gravitate very strongly towards losing trades/bets, and vice versa.
4. For me, self-sabotage can be very destructive. It kicks in after winnings streaks of say 3-5 trades/bets. The key ‘story’ I’m buying into relates to worthiness, and needs changing.

Methods/actions:

1. Muscle relaxation, music, fun stuff. Need not involve spending money, but if it does, go ahead and spend.

2. Embody success. How would Soros trade this market, if he had the same resources I have right now? “I am that person, that highly successful trader, now what is my action?” Almost like play acting, acting “as if”, but really getting into it. Perhaps I might read up on method acting, that could help.

3. All the work needs to be done before placing the trade/bet. "After my intention and action, I have absolutely no power to influence the outcome".
Any anxiety after placing a trade should be heeded as a possible indicator of a potential bad trade. It must feel very comfortable, so I need not look at the market constantly.

Remaining Questions:

Are these methods simply a way of enabling “detachment from outcome”? In other words, is it possible to just throw a dart at a page of the finance pages and buy that, remain detached, and win that way?
Sabotage is a confounding factor and needs to be examined independently if possible, next time I have a winning streak.
Success at work seems to add a lot to good feelings. Since work success demands that I ‘let go and flow’ this is good practice for trading with trading.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
4/28/11 10:11 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Update, review post.

Mind can be difficult to control directly, but the body can be kept in a state of relaxation much more easily. A relaxed body can be used to switch off the very same negative thoughts that caused the tension. << important point. Being very specific about what muscles to relax can yield interesting mood changes, and as I've said, mood is the single most important factor is achieving success.

(from above post). One’s actions tend to validate one’s feelings. In other words, if you feel really bad, you will tend to gravitate very strongly towards losing trades/bets, and vice versa. I still hold this to be true.

NEW!: Self sabotage can be countered with simple muscle relaxation. Notice where you start to feel "hmm, this isn't going to work out" in the body then relax that specific part.

Whichever technique is used, make it a technique that you can use while maintaining a good level of bodily relaxation. Main areas to concentrate on: chest, abdomen, hands, feet and face.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
7/5/11 10:10 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Update:

Have stayed out of the market (aus stock market) until just recently. Things have been very poor amongst the speculative end of the market since about April and I'm happy to report I could just sit on my hands and watch it unfold without participating. A few trades since last week have gone quite well.

My mood had been terrible, and I knew that wasn't going to allow me to trade well so I have tripled my dose of AD's. That was critical. Also making meditation a bit easier which is handy too.

Using the following technique:

1. Scan charts visually while paying attention to the sensations in my heart region
2. Make a note of those charts that create a sensation of activation. Then go back and review these charts on their own.
2. Put myself in make believe mode "I have just bought this stock", and notice what changes occur in the heart.
3. Three distinct sensations can appear -
- neutral/nothing
- an activation or energizing which feels like anxiety but has a flavour of "arghhh, no!", 'dropping' or doom
- an activation or energizing which has more of an urgency and excitement quality to it.
4. Obviously the last category are the ones to buy. Differentiating 2. and 3. can be hard sometimes because they both have a buzzy feel to them. Once bought, I re-assess my feelings in the heart area. Sometimes the feeling can be different to what I had before I bought!!!! That's annoying, but mostly they stay consistent. If it's neutral/comfortable/exciting I stay with it. If it immediately changes to doom, I sell immediately for a loss. Usually that loss is small. I am applying none of the traditional filters to my trading; no fundamental or technical analysis, just the sensations are used to make a decision.


The idea of muscle relaxation doesn't interest me any more. Gone off that. Too hard to maintain. And just to re-iterate: One’s actions tend to validate one’s feelings. In other words, if you feel really bad, you will tend to gravitate very strongly towards losing trades/bets, and vice versa. I still hold this to be true.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
8/28/11 10:06 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Need a reliable way to feel good. This is all that's needed for material success, I'm about 90% convinced of this.

So, I know that feelings result from thoughts. And I'm pretty sure that the unconscious thoughts that are silently firing away all the time in the background are the most potent changers of mood. My conscious thoughts are pretty much neutral and repetitive, having no impact on my mood.

If I meditate on my thoughts, I get to see a deeper level of my mind, which seems to consist of extremely rapid and meaningless impulses of memories, words, images etc. They come and go in the blink of an eye, and are sometimes remnants of dreams many years in the past that I'd not thought of for ages. Very few of these are mood changing thoughts. So the 'mood changers' must be deeper again, or maybe they're inaccessible.

Insight practice is too hard, and does not make me feel good; makes me feel bad in fact. Concentration practice helps the heart centre feel more relaxed for a little while, but there's no happiness from this. haietmoba just makes me aware of the fact that I feel uncomfortable.

edit: forgot what I was harping on about the other day. Need to follow my own advice.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
8/29/11 2:34 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
I'm talking here about manifesting material success, as opposed to traditional methods of achievement, such as working very hard, forcing, manipulating, coercing, out-witting the competition. Manifesting is effortless.

So my base emotion needs to be above a certain threshold in order for me to manifest. [Note that no such requirement is necessary for conventional material success. eg. I can be very unhappy but still study law and become a partner in a firm and start raking it in the big bucks. If I'm willing to grease a few palms and be a bit tricky with the tax man, I can make even more money. That's not manifesting though, and I have no interest in that].

So what makes me feel good? By far the most potent feel good factor for the unenlightened, is positive emotional connection with others.

Following on, positive emotional connection is most easily established by assuming people already like you a lot, and unconditionally If you assume it, then behave as if they do, they do. Then you feel good. Then manifestation works. The more strongly you connect, the easier the process of manifestation.

This was reinforced recently when after a 3 week holiday overseas, my gf returned home. As I was tidying the flat in preparation for seeing her again, I was also keeping an eye on the stock market. My mood was improving. My attention just effortless moved towards a certain stock, which i knew without any doubt would finish the day significantly higher. So I bought it. And it did.
The subjective difference to my normal mode of trading was marked. It was also the best trade I'd made in over a month.
I've known this for a long time and yet it's so easy to get sidetracked by different approaches to success and happiness. Better I write it down here. Formalize it to some degree.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
8/29/11 1:13 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
I just remembered something Thanissaro Bhikkhu said last year when I visited Metta Forest monastery. It was during the Q&A we got on the topic of the thai fortune telling monks and someone asked if he ever learned any of this stuff or soemthing like that and he made the comment that, "some monks are practicing for power and some for release." and that the monastery he trained at and the teacher he studied under was all about release.
I use a pendulum for finding things out its pretty accurate and sometimes just entertaining like getting the the answer that there are 463 arahants living in the world currently (this number is a couple weeks old). and then I went on to ask which part of the world had the most arahant per capita lol and the answer was.... insert drum roll.... India.
my favorite thing to do is see if some one is actually full of shit (not implying anything to anyone on here). its me lucky charm lol!emoticon

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
8/29/11 4:05 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Are these methods simply a way of enabling “detachment from outcome”? In other words, is it possible to just throw a dart at a page of the finance pages and buy that, remain detached, and win that way?

There's a couple of ways to make this work, the most simple way to do it is through laughter. Laughter doesn't require emotion, this makes it ideal to carry out the slight of mind required. Once you've done whatever it is you're doing, whether it's charging a sigil, throwing a dart or whatever, as soon as it's done you force yourself to laugh and continue to laugh for as long as feels appropriate to you. The most important thing is that you switch your entire focus over to the laughter and stay there, the original intent will be launched off into wherever it's going and effectively forgotten.

This takes practice but you can come to a point when the slight of mind is available at will, it's just like a subtle 'flip' in the mind so work with it and you'll see what I mean.

The example you've given about throwing a dart at the finance pages could work but the most important thing in any magickal act is intent, so you'd need to have already defined your intent prior to carrying out the 'charging'.

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
5/22/12 8:33 PM as a reply to Tommy M.
If anyone is interested in money and stuff like that, I feel like I got some good value out of this:
http://www.albigen.net/albigen-system/ultimate-betweenness.aspx

Helps with the subtle flip. The most successful moments are definitely where the process is very subtle and free of striving and tension.

You know when you read something and you say to yourself: That's what I've always said!!! Like this sentence:

"There are two main things I think are worth studying. One is how to wake up from this dream we call life. The other is how to get what you want within it. As it happens, the formula for both is the same".

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
5/23/12 5:12 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Since the formula is the same, how's the waking up part coming? This thread is over a year old. Any insights? Do you find your Magickal intentions changing as awakening occurs? Or do you find that cultivating the desire for money perpetuates suffering, as Buddhist theory would predict? I'm not well-versed in the magickal tradition, but don't they say the benefit in these kinds of "spells" is in learning to be dissatisfied with them?

Worrying about money used to be like breathing for me. Since stream entry, it seems I've forgotten how. (Maybe I'll have a chance to remember.) (I also used to find it pretty obnoxious when people suggested that my material problems had a spiritual solution, so I don't mean to moralize. Just wondering.)

Jason

RE: magik and lottery
Answer
5/23/12 8:02 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
J B:
Since the formula is the same, how's the waking up part coming? This thread is over a year old. Any insights? Do you find your Magickal intentions changing as awakening occurs? Or do you find that cultivating the desire for money perpetuates suffering, as Buddhist theory would predict? I'm not well-versed in the magickal tradition, but don't they say the benefit in these kinds of "spells" is in learning to be dissatisfied with them?

Worrying about money used to be like breathing for me. Since stream entry, it seems I've forgotten how. (Maybe I'll have a chance to remember.) (I also used to find it pretty obnoxious when people suggested that my material problems had a spiritual solution, so I don't mean to moralize. Just wondering.)

Jason


Good point. I see it this way: If one can let go of the self just a little bit, one begins to see how the mind creates its reality, and how thoughts held a certain way in the mind tend to come true. I used to think that my thoughts were real, and I lived that way. But I don't do that so much nowadays. If negative attitudes create undesirable outcomes, why would you persist? The only reason to persist is because you believe those thoughts to be true, and therefore not something to meddle with. So that's the insight I got out of letting go a little bit. The result is a better success rate in getting whatever it is I want; I just used money as one example, but it could be anything.

The things that people want can vary but they always have the same purpose - to enhance, enliven, validate or acknowledge the self. When you do these things, health and happiness improves dramatically. That's why I bang on ad nauseum about first being able to be a success in the material world (for all those depressed men who end up in here totally lost, thinking that desire is bad and that watching the breath will save them).

So then you take your happiness and health and you build it more and more by getting more of whatever it is you want in life. When the happiness and satisfaction reaches a high level, you naturally fall into jhana, just by resting and closing your eyes. I've only had that once, but then again there's a lot more achieving I have to do first.

The argument that a lot of Buddhists use to decry this is: "What about all those Wall St bankers, they don't know when to stop! It's a huge never ending spiral of wanting more and more!". My answer to that is that a lot of those people are using very old fashioned methods of getting what they want. Instead of manifesting what they want, they use coercion, lying, manipulation, trickery, bribery, etc. I'd even include "hard work" as a bit of an old fashioned method. The Chinese, for example, are very fond of working their fingers to the bone, but most of them are very unhappy. They have a mix of two styles of 'old fashioned' in China - massive levels of corruption, but also the hard hard work amongst the sweat shop workers, farmers and miners. China will end up in a big old mess, about 2015 is my guess.

As jhana starts to happen naturally, then one might feel the inclination to pay close attention to the source of all this mind stuff. The insight is like a final step. How much insight do I have? None, obviously. When I begin practice on that, I want to do it properly and in the proper order, not just be flopping about with stages that are too advanced for me, etc.