Hi there;

I have questions about the three characteristics. I seem to have a very good experiencial relationship with no self and with impermenance, but I am not really able to get a handle on the third one. I'd like to ask a few general questions about the 3 C's, and a few specific questions about suffering. In keeping with the spirit of Dharma Overground, the questions are meant to be groundwork for exploration rather than philosophical.

Thanks in advance + from a practice perspective assume in your answers that I am willing and able to examine each instance with basic access concentration.

Questions:

1) Are the three characteristics present in each and every sensation equally, or do the charactistics occurr to different degrees in different sensations?

2) Are some sensations prone to be more inclined to have "heavy no self content" and others prone to have "heavy suffering content"? If so, why?

3) Are some sense perceptions more prone to one characteristic than another? i.e does the dhatu of thinking reveal the characteristic of suffering more clearly than it reveals the characteristic of no self?

4) If you are in access concentration and a totally non-volotional sensation occurs (for example, the wind blows and the sensation is noted) is suffering still present even in that very neutral sensation?

5) Can suffering take place if there is no obvious conceptual thought associated with the situation? i.e. can suffering still occur even if a thought like "I don't like it when the wind blows in my face" does not arrise?

6) If such an accompanying thought did arrise would the suffering associated with the thought be independant of the suffering of the original sensation, or can the three charactistics act as a bridge between sensations and reactions? i.e. if I get up and move to a new spot because the wind was blowing too hard, was that reaction resultant of the three characteristics?

7) If awareness is occupied elsewhere and it was not even noticed that the wind blew, does the unnoticed sensation still carry suffering, etc, or does the fact that it was not noticed in the field of awareness mean that the sensation does not have the three charaistics? In other words: can the three characteristics arrise only if there is a perception of the sensation or do they exist regardless?

8) If the sensation has fully ceased (i.e. the wind stops blowing and it can no longer be felt) does that mean that the three characteristics associated with the sensation have ceased also? Or do the three characteristics have the capacity to exist even after the sensation has ceased because a mental impression of the event still exists?

9) As they relate to any given sensation, are the three characteristics like "perfume" that manifests from something more undefineable, or are the three characteristics as straight forward as they appear to be?

10) Ultimately do the three characteristics actually "exist" as a byproduct that results from a perception of subject and object, or would it be more accurate to say that the three characteristics are a non-existant minunderstanding that results from a fundementally flawed perception of a subject and object?

..

Mike.

Edit: see this post

8 - That the sensation has ceased is a demonstration of the 3Cs. The mental impression won't last either.

9 - More than merely straightforward: look to direct experience

apologies if you've read this stuff before:

very briefly:
Four Seals of the View

at some length:
MCTB 3. The Three Characteristics and esp. the follow-on page on the A&P.

and, of course, MCTB The Three Characteristics.

Your apologies are not necessary, but my thanks are due. I appreciate the links.

I often need to read and re-read until something sticks, but I have complete confidence that once I am pointed in the right direction that I can eventually realize what is being pointed at.

I am really truly amazed at how much sense this "insight meditation" stuff is making of the questions which have naturally arisen over the course of so many years of instinctual practice. I kept getting into these astonishing states of tranquility and asking "where's the wisdom?" -As amazing as these jnana states are experiencially, the bigest rewards I've had have come from the precieous few insights that have unsystematically presented themselves along the way.

It is great news that there is a way to cultivate wisdom. Thanks to you veterans for baring with me while I learn to do so.

If someone can please take a shot at the first three questions I asked it would be appreciated, the rest can wait. If you want to help me by pointing out unwitting asumptions that I am making in the questions, that probably helps out even more than answers would.

Hello Mike:

You asked:

QUOTE

1) Are the three characteristics present in each and every sensation equally, or do the charactistics occurr to different degrees in different sensations?

2) Are some sensations prone to be more inclined to have "heavy no self content" and others prone to have "heavy suffering content"? If so, why?

3) Are some sense perceptions more prone to one characteristic than another? i.e does the dhatu of thinking reveal the characteristic of suffering more clearly than it reveals the characteristic of no self?

END QUOTE

May I suggest that these questions sound like you are attempting to find qualities in the three characteristics in a way that is not useful to experiencing them. It sounds like you are attempting to objectify them. They really aren't objects. I would suggest that the three characteristics are just different ways of looking at the same thing, although the word thing is incorrect since that also suggests an object. When we say sensations are empty of a separate self (they don't even refer to some real central self), are essentially unsatisfactory (to the extent we grasp them they cause suffering) and arise and pass away we are, as they say, pointing at the moon. We are using language to indicate something that can only be understood experientially. No matter how beautifully you point at the moon it is important not to mistake your finger for the moon. All of your questions can be answered in many different ways, but when they are, will our answers actually help? Perhaps not as much as you asking these questions yourself, in practice, over and over again of each sensation as you experience it.

~ Mark

Great response Mark. The objectification which you pointed out is a great help & I appreciate what you are saying; the questions will be resolved in the realm of direct experience or they will forever remain unresolved. I understand that, and for the record: I will settle for nothing less.

I am very taken by the practicality of insight meditation; for example in his book Daniel Ingram says that before he sits he makes the vow “I resolve that for this hour I will consistently investigate the sensations that make up reality so as to attain to liberating insights for the benefit of myself and all beings.” just to express what he hopes to attain by his practice.

I guess my questions are meant in a similar way. I am hoping to get my barings, and establish a platform from which to take a first step towards real understanding.

Let's put it this way: if the "answers" to the questions I am asking are verifyable in experience, then please answer and trust me to verify the answer. However, if the answers are not verifyable in experience, I can easily accept that the problem lays in the underlying assumptions that I am making in the questions.

Either way I appreciate the responses. Thanks.

Dear Mike: Answers in Italics

Daniel;

An exceptionally clear response. Thank you. As promised, I will work with this in a direct way and report back on how it goes.