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Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting

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Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/6/19 1:40 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 11/6/19 2:04 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Bardo Cruiser 11/6/19 2:47 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/6/19 4:24 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting curious 11/7/19 3:56 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Jo Jo 11/7/19 8:30 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Daniel M. Ingram 11/7/19 10:45 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Daniel M. Ingram 11/7/19 10:46 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/7/19 11:15 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Daniel M. Ingram 11/7/19 11:32 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/7/19 11:53 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 11/7/19 2:39 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/7/19 5:04 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 11/7/19 3:43 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/7/19 4:27 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 11/7/19 8:28 PM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/8/19 5:59 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 11/8/19 6:07 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/8/19 6:24 AM
RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting Lasse 11/14/19 6:32 PM
Can long-time meditators describe how you can sit without shoulder blade pain? I sit on a few pillows currently. Might a meditation cushion help with shoulder blade pain, if so what kind of a cushion, can you provide me with links? Thanks!

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/6/19 2:04 PM as a reply to Lasse.
If it's the shoulders that hurt, you probably need to use your core muscles more to straighten your spine and push the breast upwards and just slightly forward (not too much though; think of it as pushing your heart forward without tilting your spine) while at the same time making sure to relax your shoulders down and slightly backwards to open up your chest. In order to do so, you need to root your seat bones down. This takes a lot of training. If this is too much right now, you might want to try to meditate in a reclining position for a while. 

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/6/19 2:47 PM as a reply to Lasse.
Lasse:
Can long-time meditators describe how you can sit without shoulder blade pain? I sit on a few pillows currently. Might a meditation cushion help with shoulder blade pain, if so what kind of a cushion, can you provide me with links? Thanks!

I remember having all sorts of posture troubles when sitting. I'm heavily built at 6 foot 2 and the pains from the traditional posture negated my ability to concentrate. In the end, I favoured resting my back against a back rest but this can encourage sleepiness. I decided that the sloth and torpor was far easier to manage than the pains, and I was then able to fully capitalize on my concentration skills.

I guess what I'm saying here is having some flexibility and creativity with posture and seating types may pay spiritual dividends. Shoulder pain can develop as a result of the weight of the arms pulling downwards. Perhaps try placing a cushion in your lap and resting your hands right there. As Linda says, back posture can contribute to the shoulder pain too. Perhaps your arching too much. 

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/6/19 4:24 PM as a reply to Lasse.
Thanks for the replies, I'll try again tomorrow.

Do you guys and gals use any proper cushions, like this? https://www.amazon.com/Gaiam-Zafu-Meditation-Cushion-Pillow/dp/B016WWYOFQ

Edit: maybe it's the rest of my posture, the knees, I'm sitting down in a regular cross-legged position. I'll try something else.

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 3:56 AM as a reply to Lasse.
I spent a year or two working on traditional cross-legged and half lotus postures on the floor, working towards full lotus.  But eventually I gave up and reverted to simply sitting cross legged on beds, or sun loungers, or armchairs.  I would lean very slightly back onto a wall, or chair back, with a cushion in my lumbar area. Once I got my posture right this position opened up the diaphragm completely, the spine was straight and the head was balanced. So subtle musclar tension was almost completely absent, while breathing was very open and relaxed.  Not qute traditional, but it worked well for me.  And I guess armchairs and cushions weren't quite so available to the sangha 2400 years ago ... 

I think that one of the aims of posture is to minimise oxygen uptake by the body, so the body calms down and the breath can deepen.  Lying down doesn't necessarily do this as well as sitting, as there is some effort in raising the chest. 

Your mileage may vary!

Malcolm

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 8:30 AM as a reply to Lasse.
Shinzen Young has a few instructive videos on. And I also recommend this great article by Reginald Ray on tricycle:
~~https://tricycle.org/magazine/touching-enlightenment/

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 10:45 AM as a reply to Lasse.
That's also a classic Three Chracteristics insight stage problem, and it can be really painful for some, as it has for me at points along the way, mostly early on. Consider reclining meditation and more walking meditation: both underestimated.

Best wishes!

Daniel

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 10:46 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Oh, yes, the book Internal Moving Healing (such as found here https://www.amazon.com/Internal-Moving-Healing-Manual-Instruction/dp/1418438855) has all sorts of really helpful advice on the subject.

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 11:15 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hi, I'm just getting over the five hindrances in my practice, not even reaching the first jhana, which is going really well for me, but the practice hits a dead end after 30 minutes due to pain, I don't feel that torturing myself is a good way to go on. 

I ordered a proper zafu, will try with that.

Thanks for the links!

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 11:32 AM as a reply to Lasse.
Again, likely the Three Characteristics insight stage: classic. Best wishes!

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 11:53 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hi, I'm not even doing insight practice, it's just posture-related pain.

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 2:39 PM as a reply to Lasse.
Insight happens, especially early insight. It doesn’t necessarily depend on any practice. And even if you are doing shamatha, it’s not like you can bypass the cyclings that all humans go through in one way or another in their development, if they develop in that respect (in paying attention to what happens). You would have to have an extreme tunnel vision to miss out on the 3C nana while doing shamatha. 

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 5:04 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Hi, I've basically just done 30 minutes of meditation at most, I haven't noticed anything except very relaxed states and some insight into good and bad actions.

By the way, the Pali Canon (http://www.khamkoo.com/uploads/9/0/0/4/9004485/sayings_of_the_buddha_-_new_translations_from_the_pali_nikayas.pdf) at page 26 (83 on PDF reader) has crazy good instructions for meditation, namely by straightening one's body and letting go of the five hindrances. Following them exactly I can basically meditate forever, except pain becomes a road-block. Anyway, far better instructions than say concentrating on the breath or counting them or what have you, I've found -- I need very little effort after letting go of the five hindrances.

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 3:43 PM as a reply to Lasse.
Lots of people pass the A&P without meditating a minute. Posture-related pain is intimately connected to the insight stages in my experience. In next stage it will suddenly get much easier for a while. I find that even my balance is highly dependent on the nanas (I do yoga) and the asanas are so much easier to get right in the A&P than in the 3C nana. It's ridiculous really. For me observations like that make it easier for me to let go of attachment and aversion. Mapping is not everybody's cup of tea, though. I guess what we are trying to say is that it will probably pass on its own, basically. It can be very unsettling while it lasts, though, I know. I hope you find a way to releive it in the meantime.

Sounds like a good approach. That's great practice. Just... It might be a good idea to ponder about the relation between suffering from pain and the five hindrances. 

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 4:27 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Reading from MCTB, I don't think I'm in the 3Cs because the three characteristics have never appeared for me. Letting go of the five hindrances is a very different practice from Vipassana. I think the Pali Canon gets at that too at some point but I haven't read that far. And I've never perceived bright lights and the like so I don't think I've reached A&P either. 

Letting go of the five hindrances is just, "with consciousness bright one lives mindful and fully aware and lets go of the hindrance of dullness and lethargy" -- following that I just happily meditate very easily. There's no noting or anything, nothing to do with sensations. 

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/7/19 8:28 PM as a reply to Lasse.
There are many many different ways of doing vipassana, and yes, letting go of the five hindrances is part of the practice, although it is necessary also for shamatha. 

Everything has to do with sensations. 

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/8/19 5:59 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
It really seems like a posture-related thing though emoticon

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/8/19 6:07 AM as a reply to Lasse.
Well, it is, too. It doesn't have to be either or. Sorry, I didn't mean to be disrespectful or question your experience. I'm truly sorry if I made you feel bad. 

For me personally, my muscles are much more sensitive in some stages than in others. These things seem to be intertwined. Also, I tend to have much more difficulties in putting my body into a healthy posture in some stages than in others. That seems to be how the attention system works. 

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/8/19 6:24 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
No worries emoticon 

RE: Shoulder blades hurt after 30 min of sitting
Answer
11/14/19 6:32 PM as a reply to Lasse.
Got myself this 5-star zafu: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0753369QL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's very comfy. Sitting on it is so nice, I sit on it without even doing anything meditation-related. 100000% defeats stacked pillows. Due to very good posture I don't even have to do any work letting go of the hindrances. You have to train your butt muscles and legs fall a little bit asleep but it's manageable. I don't seem to notice the same shoulder blade pain, might have to sit a little longer -- need to get used to legs falling 70% asleep, which can be done but takes some time. Sitting even for 20 minutes, my back feels amazingly good after.