curious:
To answer your question Linda/Polly ... one type of experience comes from deep mindfulness of the body, perceiving the flow of sensations as they arise and pass away. Then this meditation moves into mindfulness of the flow of all perceptions, with the twinkling of sense data arising and passing away across the whole perceptual field. The conception of the body disappears, very much like a dissolution into the sensory field, and all that remains is the twinkling of sensa quanta. But the sense quanta still include bodily data, and while it feels like a dissolution it doesn't actually seem to be the dissolation nana.
So far I’m with you. All my most vivid experiences of this have been outside the dissolution nana. This is what I meant with it being more on the deconstruction side, because this is part of what Michael Taft’s map for deconstruction deals with. He talks about it in one of his latest podcasts, the one from September 24th. At the moment I’m working on zooming out from more narrow focuses in order to have this happening to a wider range of perceptions, not just the kinds that are easiest for me to deconstruct. I think his model is pretty much a way for those who come from vipassana to integrate non-dual experiences with their vipassana. It would be very interesting to hear what you think about that specific podcast.
Sometimes, at this point, the dimension of space also disappears, and all the sense data are right there, completely immediate with no separation (and yet they are still distinct quanta).
I once had the experience that time went away and all the sense data were right now. They were spatially organized somehow, though, I think. Or maybe that’s just how I intellectualized it afterwards.
Other times, this state may flow into sleep yoga (sleeping with mindfulness of the flow of sensation).
I think this may be what’s happening to me rather often lately. Is that possible at this point in my practice or am I misinterpreting some other state? For me it’s a state that doesn't seem concentrated at all, as there is no focus whatsoever, but sensations are flowing. My body seems to be asleep. There are occasional outbreaths where my mouth opens itself to let out a burst of air in a way that surprises me every time because it sounds as if I were aleep and I know that I was completely aware. Those sudden occurrances bring about a brief moment of conceptualizations that interrupt the sense of there being just a flow. For a moment my mouth and breath are conceptualized both as mouth and breath and as associated with this particular body, and there are conceptualizations about sleep and non-sleep, but outside of those interruptions, such concepts do not arise. There's just a flow and no-one there to conceptualize it or own it. The body temperature seems to drop as if in deep sleep and afterwards I feel like I have slept, except for the fact that there was awareness the whole time. Is that the kind of state you are referring to? Or how would you describe it?
The other types of experiences are in non-dual absoprtions. One has a similar sense of flow to the that described above, but is more active and engaged with the brightness and immediacy of reality that knows itself and is immediate and present just right where it is.
I think I have very brief glimpses of this. Love those.
Another goes further and shifts the sense of identify into that bright reality to merge with the field of awarenes - becoming one with the source.
That sounds very similar to what happened to me when I was drawn in by the nada sound, although I interpreted that as a fourth jhana thing that resulted in fruitions. All external senses gradually went away and everything turned into bright whiteness which submerged me and took away both the world and eventually me. Even the nada sound fell away so there was absolute silence, and then cessation of experience. There’s a palpable difference though: it was more the experience of having everything taken away than merging with it. It was a drawn-out tearing as if being on the verge of a black hole, except it was white and nothing but white light existed.
In both cases, the sensations of the body are still present, but the conception of the body is not.
That’s a familar experience.
You are very welcome. Thank you! Fascinating conversation!
P.S. Yes, still a bit of an intellectual nerd. But it doesn't grab me anymore - more just lazing on a sunny afternoon.
Great! It still grabs me, more or less, but most of the time the fascination is joyful. I assume that I will uncover layers of dukkha in that joy eventually, apart from what is apparent already, but after all, phenomenology and the kind of conceptualizing that comes with it is pretty much what I do for a living, albeit so far not with meditation practice as its focus, so I think it is pretty likely that I will continue with it to some extent just because it is a preference regardless of grabbings.
Gotama's taken all my fear
And left me here without a care
Lazing on a sunny afternoon
And I can't grab at any trouble
My anxiety's reduced to rubble
All I've got's this sunny afternoon
... with apologies to the Kinks