assess me! please :-) - Discussion
Hey Tom,
It's impossible, or at least very difficult, to make an accurate diagnosis of someone on a website and based on minimal information, in my opinion at least. The best you'll get is an (un)educated guess, so here's my uneducated two cents worth....
What sort of sensations? This could indicate a lot of stuff and it's not a lot to go on.
Possibly kriyas, it's to do with kundalini which, if this is the case, would suggest that you have indeed crossed the A&P at some point in the past.
Hmmm, could be anything from 3rd to 11th ñana as strobing is seeing impermanance. What happens here?
Again possibly kriya-related, but also likely to be something to do with 8th ñana. Knowledge of Disgust. I say this because facial contortion is something which happens here in my own practice.
You'll move through the jhanas anyway while doing vipassana, but absorption is a different matter and not essential for insight which, I'm assuming, is primarily what you're aiming for.
What do you expect 1st jhana to feel like? Look for tingling, pleasant sensations on your skin and stay with that.
The level of experience you're describing from your previous practice would indicate to me that you're more than likely getting into the jhanas without much difficulty, but you might be looking for the wrong signs to show that you're already there.
With the A&P, it's not always a massive deal but it's always the point of no return. It may have been the point where you decided to first get into meditation, it may have occurred years before but it doesn't really matter 'cause, when it comes down to it in the here and now, it's gone and there's no point scouring your memories for it. Focus on being here, now and with sensation as it arises and passes, and you'll see soon enough what we're actually talking about here. Once you can identify it in practice at present you're more likely to think "Oh yeah! Now I remember, I had feeling when I was waiting for a bus..." or whatever. It's universal but it can manifest in a lot of different ways so don't get too hung up on textbook definitions, MCTB is an amazing, wonderful and, for me, life changing book but I did the same as you're doing and set up these expectations which, in reality, may not be exactly what happens for you.
One thing I just need to pull you up on here.....
Forget having crossed the A&P in a past-life, whatever your belief or interpretation of rebirth is, this is not the way it happens. That sort of thinking isn't helpful and I would advise against it, focus on what's happening right now 'cause this is the only moment that matters. If I were to believe the past-life "memories" which have appeared for me, I've been an African shaman and a Spanish soldier, amongst other things, but none of this is helpful or shows things as they are. Take this stuff with a pinch of salt and stick to sensation 'cause that's quite literally where it's at.
Good luck and I hope this was of some use to you.
- Tommy
It's impossible, or at least very difficult, to make an accurate diagnosis of someone on a website and based on minimal information, in my opinion at least. The best you'll get is an (un)educated guess, so here's my uneducated two cents worth....
striking collection of sensations at the crown, then 3rd eye,
What sort of sensations? This could indicate a lot of stuff and it's not a lot to go on.
at throat a very strong energetic pulse which forced my head waaayy back for some minutes
Possibly kriyas, it's to do with kundalini which, if this is the case, would suggest that you have indeed crossed the A&P at some point in the past.
strobing of breath at nostrils in tact of breath
Hmmm, could be anything from 3rd to 11th ñana as strobing is seeing impermanance. What happens here?
much facial muscle twitching / pulling
Again possibly kriya-related, but also likely to be something to do with 8th ñana. Knowledge of Disgust. I say this because facial contortion is something which happens here in my own practice.
You'll move through the jhanas anyway while doing vipassana, but absorption is a different matter and not essential for insight which, I'm assuming, is primarily what you're aiming for.
What do you expect 1st jhana to feel like? Look for tingling, pleasant sensations on your skin and stay with that.
The level of experience you're describing from your previous practice would indicate to me that you're more than likely getting into the jhanas without much difficulty, but you might be looking for the wrong signs to show that you're already there.
With the A&P, it's not always a massive deal but it's always the point of no return. It may have been the point where you decided to first get into meditation, it may have occurred years before but it doesn't really matter 'cause, when it comes down to it in the here and now, it's gone and there's no point scouring your memories for it. Focus on being here, now and with sensation as it arises and passes, and you'll see soon enough what we're actually talking about here. Once you can identify it in practice at present you're more likely to think "Oh yeah! Now I remember, I had feeling when I was waiting for a bus..." or whatever. It's universal but it can manifest in a lot of different ways so don't get too hung up on textbook definitions, MCTB is an amazing, wonderful and, for me, life changing book but I did the same as you're doing and set up these expectations which, in reality, may not be exactly what happens for you.
One thing I just need to pull you up on here.....
despite having no concious memory of having an A&P in this life
Forget having crossed the A&P in a past-life, whatever your belief or interpretation of rebirth is, this is not the way it happens. That sort of thinking isn't helpful and I would advise against it, focus on what's happening right now 'cause this is the only moment that matters. If I were to believe the past-life "memories" which have appeared for me, I've been an African shaman and a Spanish soldier, amongst other things, but none of this is helpful or shows things as they are. Take this stuff with a pinch of salt and stick to sensation 'cause that's quite literally where it's at.
Good luck and I hope this was of some use to you.
- Tommy
ooh were you a spanish soldier that killed an african shaman that you also were? that would be interesting!
HA! Quantum mindfuck.
No probs mate, I'm not an expert or anything but if what I'm saying is helpful then I'm happy with that!
I thought it seemed a bit odd when you said it 'cause I didn't get that impression from you before.
I've never seen kriyas written about on here other than in passing, or over on KFD, and I would avoid using them as criteria to define your current position on the maps. About the only reasonable indicator I could point to would be post-A&P after kundalini has been raised for the first time, which as I said before is quite likely to have happened to you previously, as this energy continues to rise and flow through the body, clearing out the "energy channels" for want of a better phrase.
The twitching can appear, in my own practice at least, anywhere from 4th to 10th ñana, but I don't ever get them after these stages. It's common for yogis to get this, don't use it as a diagnostic tool 'cause they're not unique to any Path. I don't know if any of the resident Arahats on here would chime in and say if they noticed these after 4th path? I think it's unlikely as it seems that this particularly energetic circuit is completed on attaining 4th path but I stand to be corrected.
A&P, but there's also similar to sensations around this area when in High Equanimity in my experience. How would you describe your attention at this point?
1st ñana into 2nd ñana, Mind and Body into Cause & Effect. Check out this talk by Kenneth Folk and see if it rings any bells for you, it might iron out a few creases and fill in a few of those holes you've been digging.
Who else is going to be feeling it?!
All the best!
Tommy
just for clarity# sake, i'm not fixed on past life experiences (or this life either for that matter) too much. my not having a clear and memorable a&p makes my present assessment just a little less certain.
I thought it seemed a bit odd when you said it 'cause I didn't get that impression from you before.
i am certain that the throat thing was a kriya, but i don't see that term here anywhere so where would that map? it was a very cool event that i could just watch as it happened...perhaps i allowed it to happen to some degree, but it was a definite force...as for the other twitching events etc. i find those difficult to use as assessment points as well.
I've never seen kriyas written about on here other than in passing, or over on KFD, and I would avoid using them as criteria to define your current position on the maps. About the only reasonable indicator I could point to would be post-A&P after kundalini has been raised for the first time, which as I said before is quite likely to have happened to you previously, as this energy continues to rise and flow through the body, clearing out the "energy channels" for want of a better phrase.
The twitching can appear, in my own practice at least, anywhere from 4th to 10th ñana, but I don't ever get them after these stages. It's common for yogis to get this, don't use it as a diagnostic tool 'cause they're not unique to any Path. I don't know if any of the resident Arahats on here would chime in and say if they noticed these after 4th path? I think it's unlikely as it seems that this particularly energetic circuit is completed on attaining 4th path but I stand to be corrected.
as far as the crown sensations..it was as if a very hard rubber pencil eraser were being rubbed on my fontanelle ins 2cm circle , the direction of which i could influence. much stronger than the "dancing ants" sensation which i can tune into at almost any time and in any state.
A&P, but there's also similar to sensations around this area when in High Equanimity in my experience. How would you describe your attention at this point?
as to the breath strobing...simply while inhaling i noted the breath as distinct "puffs" or "pulses" as opposed to a steady stream the tact of which slowed or sped up in relation to the pace of the breath.
1st ñana into 2nd ñana, Mind and Body into Cause & Effect. Check out this talk by Kenneth Folk and see if it rings any bells for you, it might iron out a few creases and fill in a few of those holes you've been digging.
i think you are also right in that my expectations of jhanas are more in the "wonderful" arena almost like "well if I'M feeling it, it couldn't be jhana...
Who else is going to be feeling it?!
All the best!
Tommy