Hi.

In the Simple Model it is mentioned, "When the sense of the watcher, observer, subject, controller, doer, etc. is seen completely as it is and the knot of perception untangles, that simple, fundamental way of perceiving things is the next stage of awakening"

I can see the sense of watcher, observer, subject, object, etc. I am having difficulty in that the compulsion is to find which perspective is the 'right' perspective, although when I take one of these perspective it kind of falls apart.

For example I might take the perspective that I am the subject and 'out there' is the object. I try to do this for a few moments but can't hold it. Similarly I try and take the perspective of the watcher and it too falls apart. Hence my confusion. There is still significant duality otherwise I couldn't note the different perspectives.

Should I continue to simply note the perspectives and that there is actually no 'right' perspective in that they're all conditioned, have suffering and are not 'me'?

I have only recently started meditating for the first time in years and it is vastly different than it used to be (pre awakening) with the assistance of MTCB (knowledge of the insight stages and three chars). This is my first foray into using a system for meditation as previously (years ago) I would just watch the breath but have no insight going on.

*Updated query: does the untangling occur when all of these perspectives dissolve such that what is left is just a selfless screen of awareness upon which things seem to be projected onto in an immediate kind of way? or am I off base here?

What I think is important to point out here is that we all use different language to describe this stuff, don't get too caught up in descriptions or expectation based on what you've read as all of this stuff will happen for you as long as you're practicing well and "getting it done". Once you've seen it for yourself, the descriptions given in MCTB will become clearer but, in my opinion, Daniel's got a very technical writing style which could potentially confuse people. Don't get me wrong, MCTB is the holy fucking grail of modern Dharma books to me and without it I'd never have made the progress I've been fortunate enough to have made, but there are some things he describes in a very idiosyncratic way and confused me to some extent until I had more experience and the ability to see what he was getting at.


It's more useful to note the compulsion, searching, differentiating, selecting, the urge to be "right" and so forth.


Right on the money.


Having not fully untangled that particular knot, I can only offer an opinion based on experience.

Perspectives are seen through and the entire sense-field becomes unified so, in a sense, you're correct in what you're pointing towards here. Some of the resident 4th path'ers on here should be able to offer more clarification on this. It sounds to me like you're actually talking about "rigpa". Just a thought.

- Tommy

Thanks Tommy M that clarified a few things, I'll just keep humming along.

Reading about rigpa, it does seem that it fits my brief (10 minute maybe) experience although the Wiki is stacked with verbose philosophy. Also that state was kind of close to an EE in its immediateness, which I found curious.