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q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine

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Quoted from a post on the dharmaoveground:

does your chest region feel blank/inactive, is it harder to get "energy phenomena" going on in this region?

Specifically I mean both the chest in the front, and the spine around that height in the back.


What would that point to?

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
4/26/11 4:56 PM as a reply to Bart Castelijns.
Why do you ask? It often helps to specify what you want to know, and why, to get a better answer.

Anyway, without knowing the context of the quote, i believe it refers to the "chakra opening"-process that seems correlated with the insight process. I believe the person who asked is trying to find out whether some specific chakras are blocked/not active yet. I haven't thought much about non-open chakras myself, besides playing around with the "chakra" circuit somewhat, mostly before i began to do insight meditation on purpose (as opposed to doing insight practice by being too curious while trying to do concentration practice.)

Hope that helps you emoticon
Villum

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
4/27/11 4:16 PM as a reply to Villum (redacted).
Hi Villum,

thanks for replying

Why do you ask?


I couldn't figure it out when I wrote the post that started this thread. Though now I'm pretty close when I say that it has something to do with an interest I have in proper alignment of the spine and how having it aligned would make me feel a lot better.

It often helps to specify what you want to know, and why, to get a better answer
.

I did specify what I wanted to know and you gave me a good enough answer. The chakra-thing hadn't occurred to me.

i believe it refers to the "chakra opening"-process


Sometimes I experience a greater freedom of motion of my ribs and clavicle. It creates good feelings (strenght/health/being present). Would this have anything to do with a chakra being open in that area?

Bart

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
4/27/11 4:36 PM as a reply to Bart Castelijns.
I'm afraid i don't know enough about chakras, whatever they are. So far i regard them as part of the group of common psychosomatic effects of meditation, with possible relation to the insight process.

In my own experience, and what i have gathered from reading, what i equate to active/open chakras (opening seems to be a process) will draw attention to themselves during concentrated meditation (you might experience pressure between your eyes when you meditate, like i do. I regard this as part of the same group of phenomena).

So if you get strange distorted sensations from a specific area, or it otherwise persistently draw attention to itself without any obvious physical reason, that might indicate what i call an active chakra.

As i said, i know very little about chakras. They don't seem to be regarded as particularly important in the theravada tradition. You might want to ask some yoga people, as they seem to give much more attention to the phenomenon. The forums on www.aypsite.org or www.thetaobums.com seem like good places to ask questions about things like this.

Edit: found this article nice too, though it may turn out to be wrong in some ways: http://openenlightenment.org/?p=326

Hope you find your answer
Villum

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
4/28/11 4:38 AM as a reply to Bart Castelijns.
In chinese medicine the organs have fairly similar energetic functions as the chakras. THe lungs are connected to sadness, derpession, despair, courage, strength, assertiveness, boundaries, intimacy, high energy, self esteem.

You could search for six healing sounds on youtube and do the lung sound a bit to see if it influences the stuff you are curious about.

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
4/28/11 5:18 AM as a reply to Bart Castelijns.
Bart Castelijns:
Quoted from a post on the dharmaoveground:

does your chest region feel blank/inactive, is it harder to get "energy phenomena" going on in this region?

Specifically I mean both the chest in the front, and the spine around that height in the back.


What would that point to?


It is a question related to the feeling body. I am tentatively concluding that having severe nervous tension / blockages in that region is correlated with overstraining, burning out, and tensing up excessively during insight meditation.

This is just based on my own limited experience in the past few weeks, when this region began opening up.

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
4/30/11 6:33 PM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Hi Bruno,

thanks for responding.

Is a question related to the feeling body. I am tentatively concluding that having severe nervous tension / blockages in that region is correlated with overstraining, burning out, and tensing up excessively during insight meditation.

This is just based on my own limited experience in the past few weeks, when this region began opening up.


I had a burnout as well. Wrking on my upper-back became a big a part of my recovery. There never was discomfort in my chest, but in the process of 'freeing' my upper back (which oftentimes was and sometimes still is an area with lotsof painful sensations), good sensations started arising in the area of the chest, ribs, shoulders, clavicles and neck, as well as the upper back (although this area remains mostly sensationless).

The process of opening that region was mostly done by a mix of techniques taking a physical perspective (yoga/alexander technique/chiropractial stuff). The opening of the region seems very much of a physical nature and less of a feeling nature: a posture thing, a different alignment of bones, no sense of an energy centre. I assume in your case, it's different (as you mention the feeling body) ?

In one of your posts you mentioned that you reside in Amsterdam: There is a yoga teacher there, and he gives courses to people with burnout with an emphasis on freeing the upper back. His name is Gert van Leeuwen. The coincidence is too big not to be mentioned. Most of what I do now, in regards to 'opening' my body, relies on techniques as explained by him.

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
5/1/11 3:17 PM as a reply to Villum (redacted).
Hi Villum,

thanks for the taobums and aypsite links. Pretty helpful and I'll probably be posting there soon.

I found this thread on the dharmaoverground:

The heart/chest area and it´s importance in vipassana

Just including that link for you (I'm doing concentration meditation only).

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
5/16/11 3:57 PM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Hi Bruno,

I'm continually experiencing this, but I'm experiencing it now: a connection between my heart and my mind. There recently, during concentration meditation, was an experience of a sudden shift in which my mind and body merged. After I had that happen two times in consequetive sits, I tried to let it happen again, and in trying that, but not quite getting there, that connection between my heart and mind started to exist.

In daily life I do have to tune into it in order to start to feel it, but once I get it going, it's doesn't need much effort to maintain. Partly the effect is more of the same of what I've been experiencing since starting concentration meditation. What seems different, and in line about what's commonly said about the heart, namely that is has to do with feelings, because it seems to help me monitor my feelings better, but that's an observation I made based on limited experience.

So.. I'm just wondering about that, and presenting here it here for others to comment on. questions that arise are : Am I describing a common pattern here? Should I cultivate it? Would this be an energy phenomena related to te feeling body? Is it going to be helpful in AF? Could I be cultivating some illusionary sensation? Is it an experience that is part and parcel of ordinary human experience, and something some people lose because they spend too much time in their head? Now when I do concentration meditation, there's this sense of my heart beating at my forehead (third eye right?), a common pattern?.

Thanks!

RE: q about energy phenomena in the chest/upper spine
Answer
5/17/11 6:21 AM as a reply to Bart Castelijns.
Hmm I think the heart region is associated with this "feeling connected to the body." This feeling of mind and body operating synchronously as one is something I only experienced in high equanimity, or on psychedelic drugs. I am convinced that there is a dissociation happening, where the head is made to seem "over here" and the lower body made to seem "over there." When the mind is powerful enough, this dissociation is broken (because there is enough "juice"), but ideally I would like to break the dissociative pattern completely.

Doing this, for me, seems to require a dissolution in the chest/heart region (which feels tense and dry). I think what you are describing could be something that happens towards the same goal.

Bart Castelijns:

So.. I'm just wondering about that, and presenting here it here for others to comment on. questions that arise are : (1) Am I describing a common pattern here? (2) Should I cultivate it? (3) Would this be an energy phenomena related to te feeling body? (4) Is it going to be helpful in AF? (5) Could I be cultivating some illusionary sensation? (6) Is it an experience that is part and parcel of ordinary human experience, and something some people lose because they spend too much time in their head? (7) Now when I do concentration meditation, there's this sense of my heart beating at my forehead (third eye right?), a common pattern?.


1,2,4, 6 - I don't know.

3 - yes, this is called the energy body, or feeling body.

5 - it's hard to say, but the whole of the feeling body is a dream-like illusory construct, so why not do that for a week or two and find out? Just the fact you're asking this question shows that you're being sincere in relating with this phenomenon, which means that if it is simply a meaningless fantasy, it won't last.

7 - I wouldn't worry about that at all, lots of weird things like that happen when working with the feeling body.