Message Boards Message Boards

Claims to Attainments

There is a storm inside of me

Toggle
There is a storm inside of me
dark night concentration and meditation
Answer
12/31/19 9:47 PM
Hi, 

This is my first post here and I hope somebody can help

Ive read some chapters in Daniels book, partcilculayr the Dark Knight chapter and some others seem to fit exactly with what im experiencing

As far as I know i havent had an A&P experience and ive never practiced noting. My background is some Goenka style mediation 10 years ago, then basic seated meditation following breath on and off for years, and then 1 year of TMI meditation. 

I had a kind of break down 1.5 years ago which felt like dying while you are alive but then you break through the misery and become propelled forward with a light and airy energy. I felt indestructuble and love was pourng out from my chest. I ctually felt like I understood Jesus. That was until my experience with direct pointing...

That seemed to propel me into the drk night place that im in now. Prior to that I was doing TMI and making good progress with concnetration practice. The direct pointing instruction was powerful and affective, I believe, but not without side effects...

I am a father of 3 kids. Seperation in progress. Ive been indulging in herbal remedies to try blot out the pain of the experience i guess. 

Ive been toying with the idea of joining a monastery. The only energy i can muster at the moment is for practice so that I can get through this stage.

All the things that gave me pleasure now make me think "whats the point?"

Who is it that consumes the pleasure?

When the pleasure is there, I worry if it will last

Once the pleasure is gone, all that is left is craving for it and the misery that follows

Everything seems tainted, polluted by mind and all of its smoke and mirrors

What is even real? 

What I thought of as "me" was just an assumption that has never been questioned properly. What is there actually? A beautiful void within, an empty space where all things flow through but I only saw that once and now it seems unreal again.

The personality seems to be a continuosly shifting storyline based on a collection of sub stories

There is something that is always there though. When im impatient I grasp for it and when my hand passes through it I become frustrated and try harder to grab on. Why do I do this to myself? I know where this leads.

Surely I am close to something but, what is it?

Last week I knew that I just had to relax into it. Yes, that worked! 

And of course this must be the stage before equinity, so just accept EVERYTHING! Radical acceptance!

But this week, that doesnt work and a new personality is operating

There is a new problem to solve!

My concentration is shot

Today I am nihilitic but tomorrow I might be positive, clear and enthusiastic

I cant stop thinking about how entangled I have been and I feel like I can see all of the webs all around me and i am tangled in the web. I feel like I need to take some time t process all of these things but also feel like I am sipping back into old patterns becuase i cant allow the process of centering to unfold. There is too much energy coming from everywhere

Insights sometimes gently present themselves in a glorious way but not always

Some days feel so unholy and barren, dry and edgy

Other days are like being at sea in a storm and just managing to get some air every now and then

Should I persist in being a break wall and resist the waves and power through this?

Or do I allow my wall to break? If it destroys me, will it take my family with me?

But the real kicker is: If there is no "you" or "me" then who is actually making the choice? 

And then when it all gets too much I turn on netflix and tune out...

Tomorrow I may wonder what my problems were today. I will probably be laghing at this post!!

But for today, could someone please throw me a life bouy?

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
12/31/19 10:55 PM as a reply to Sasha J.
Sasha J:
Hi, 

This is my first post here and I hope somebody can help

Ive read some chapters in Daniels book, partcilculayr the Dark Knight chapter and some others seem to fit exactly with what im experiencing

As far as I know i havent had an A&P experience and ive never practiced noting. My background is some Goenka style mediation 10 years ago, then basic seated meditation following breath on and off for years, and then 1 year of TMI meditation. 

I had a kind of break down 1.5 years ago which felt like dying while you are alive but then you break through the misery and become propelled forward with a light and airy energy. I felt indestructuble and love was pourng out from my chest. I ctually felt like I understood Jesus. That was until my experience with direct pointing...

That seemed to propel me into the drk night place that im in now. Prior to that I was doing TMI and making good progress with concnetration practice. The direct pointing instruction was powerful and affective, I believe, but not without side effects...

I am a father of 3 kids. Seperation in progress. Ive been indulging in herbal remedies to try blot out the pain of the experience i guess. 

Ive been toying with the idea of joining a monastery. The only energy i can muster at the moment is for practice so that I can get through this stage.

All the things that gave me pleasure now make me think "whats the point?"

Who is it that consumes the pleasure?

When the pleasure is there, I worry if it will last

Once the pleasure is gone, all that is left is craving for it and the misery that follows

Everything seems tainted, polluted by mind and all of its smoke and mirrors

What is even real? 

What I thought of as "me" was just an assumption that has never been questioned properly. What is there actually? A beautiful void within, an empty space where all things flow through but I only saw that once and now it seems unreal again.

The personality seems to be a continuosly shifting storyline based on a collection of sub stories

There is something that is always there though. When im impatient I grasp for it and when my hand passes through it I become frustrated and try harder to grab on. Why do I do this to myself? I know where this leads.

Surely I am close to something but, what is it?

Last week I knew that I just had to relax into it. Yes, that worked! 

And of course this must be the stage before equinity, so just accept EVERYTHING! Radical acceptance!

But this week, that doesnt work and a new personality is operating

There is a new problem to solve!

My concentration is shot

Today I am nihilitic but tomorrow I might be positive, clear and enthusiastic

I cant stop thinking about how entangled I have been and I feel like I can see all of the webs all around me and i am tangled in the web. I feel like I need to take some time t process all of these things but also feel like I am sipping back into old patterns becuase i cant allow the process of centering to unfold. There is too much energy coming from everywhere

Insights sometimes gently present themselves in a glorious way but not always

Some days feel so unholy and barren, dry and edgy

Other days are like being at sea in a storm and just managing to get some air every now and then

Should I persist in being a break wall and resist the waves and power through this?

Or do I allow my wall to break? If it destroys me, will it take my family with me?

But the real kicker is: If there is no "you" or "me" then who is actually making the choice? 

And then when it all gets too much I turn on netflix and tune out...

Tomorrow I may wonder what my problems were today. I will probably be laghing at this post!!

But for today, could someone please throw me a life bouy?


aloha sasha,

    Hang in there, bra. Try to take it moment by moment and be present with whatever arises. Indulging in food, intoxicants or netflix only makes things worse, you lose willpower and self respect, and get even more depressed.

   Try work with your hands, to get your mind off of your troubles. Make something for your kids, or someone's kids.

   You are not crazy. Life really is unsatisfactory.

   Count your blessings, cut your losses and persevere in what you know is good for you.

terry
   

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
1/1/20 7:03 AM as a reply to Sasha J.
Oh, I remember the feeling, or at least the feeling that I associate with what you wrote. That paradoxical combination of despair and apathy. All I can say is that relief is possible. Peace is possible. I don't know how your road to get there will be. Wishing you the best. 

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
1/1/20 11:49 PM as a reply to terry.
terry:
   You are not crazy. Life really is unsatisfactory.


Everyone needs to hear this!

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
1/2/20 4:16 AM as a reply to spatial.
Agreed! I thought there must be something wrong with me.

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
1/3/20 7:14 AM as a reply to Sasha J.
Sorry to hear you are going through that. I'm not advanced enough to offer help, but I'm curious about the Dark Night phase. Do you experience any physical pain or discomfort? Or is your suffering solely mental? Thanks.

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
1/5/20 6:03 AM as a reply to Sasha J.
Tom C:
It's interesting why you decided to leave - couldn't you just investigate the fear and anxiety with the understanding it's passing?

Everything in retreat that arises, all phenomena,  just investigate it, you don't have to react so strongly, nothing is sticking around for huge periods of time if you just leave it and keep investigating

Are you sure you are commenting on the right post?

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
1/5/20 7:35 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Totally wrong thread I commented on -  very strange lol

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
1/5/20 5:05 PM as a reply to Tom C.
Hi Everyone, 

Thanks for all of our responses

I feel much better after all of that venting. Sometimes it just has to be put down in writing so it can be reviewed before letting go

Sorry to hear you are going through that. I'm not advanced enough to offer help, but I'm curious about the Dark Night phase. Do you experience any physical pain or discomfort? Or is your suffering solely mental? Thanks.

Hi Ethan emoticon

For me it is mostly mental anguish but I do "feel" the physical pain more as well because I am more aware of it.

I believe the dark night is simply becoming acutely aware of the suffering that comes from craving /attachment or the movement away from fear / aversion. We all feel this suffering all of the tie but when we have practised sufficiently, the awareness of this constant state is stripped bare and becomes painfullt obvious.

There is also the dichotomy of self; I have seen that there is no permament self but that insight is directly contradicting my conditioned feeling of self. This is painful as the mind/ego cannot accept this because it will mean the "death" of the ego. The ego is suffering. "I" am suffering. But really, there is nobody suffering and there never was. My ego will not accept this however emoticon 

I think it is a blessing in disguise; I can now pratice accepting this truth and work on releasing the suffering by letting go of the craving and aversion that is causing the problem in the first place (it is actually our response to the external things that cause our suffering rather than the external things themselves)

That is my opinion based on my experience anyway; hopefully others can correct me or expand on what ive written...

RE: There is a storm inside of me
Answer
1/6/20 1:20 AM as a reply to Sasha J.
Sasha J:
Hi, 

This is my first post here and I hope somebody can help

Ive read some chapters in Daniels book, partcilculayr the Dark Knight chapter and some others seem to fit exactly with what im experiencing

As far as I know i havent had an A&P experience and ive never practiced noting. My background is some Goenka style mediation 10 years ago, then basic seated meditation following breath on and off for years, and then 1 year of TMI meditation. 

I had a kind of break down 1.5 years ago which felt like dying while you are alive but then you break through the misery and become propelled forward with a light and airy energy. I felt indestructuble and love was pourng out from my chest. I ctually felt like I understood Jesus. That was until my experience with direct pointing...

That seemed to propel me into the drk night place that im in now. Prior to that I was doing TMI and making good progress with concnetration practice. The direct pointing instruction was powerful and affective, I believe, but not without side effects...

I am a father of 3 kids. Seperation in progress. Ive been indulging in herbal remedies to try blot out the pain of the experience i guess. 

Ive been toying with the idea of joining a monastery. The only energy i can muster at the moment is for practice so that I can get through this stage.

All the things that gave me pleasure now make me think "whats the point?"

Who is it that consumes the pleasure?

When the pleasure is there, I worry if it will last

Once the pleasure is gone, all that is left is craving for it and the misery that follows

Everything seems tainted, polluted by mind and all of its smoke and mirrors

What is even real? 

What I thought of as "me" was just an assumption that has never been questioned properly. What is there actually? A beautiful void within, an empty space where all things flow through but I only saw that once and now it seems unreal again.

The personality seems to be a continuosly shifting storyline based on a collection of sub stories

There is something that is always there though. When im impatient I grasp for it and when my hand passes through it I become frustrated and try harder to grab on. Why do I do this to myself? I know where this leads.

Surely I am close to something but, what is it?

Last week I knew that I just had to relax into it. Yes, that worked! 

And of course this must be the stage before equinity, so just accept EVERYTHING! Radical acceptance!

But this week, that doesnt work and a new personality is operating

There is a new problem to solve!

My concentration is shot

Today I am nihilitic but tomorrow I might be positive, clear and enthusiastic

I cant stop thinking about how entangled I have been and I feel like I can see all of the webs all around me and i am tangled in the web. I feel like I need to take some time t process all of these things but also feel like I am sipping back into old patterns becuase i cant allow the process of centering to unfold. There is too much energy coming from everywhere

Insights sometimes gently present themselves in a glorious way but not always

Some days feel so unholy and barren, dry and edgy

Other days are like being at sea in a storm and just managing to get some air every now and then

Should I persist in being a break wall and resist the waves and power through this?

Or do I allow my wall to break? If it destroys me, will it take my family with me?

But the real kicker is: If there is no "you" or "me" then who is actually making the choice? 

And then when it all gets too much I turn on netflix and tune out...

Tomorrow I may wonder what my problems were today. I will probably be laghing at this post!!

But for today, could someone please throw me a life bouy?
It sounds like you are doing some good practice. Make sure you do Metta and LOTS OF CONCENTRATION. Rob Burbea talks about 90% concentration.

Emptiness Clinic - Rob Burbea
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jdgajeeuiAr5VzHOSz0eLSWhDBmN8QHk/view
The role of Concentration and Metta 59:45
Dealing with fear: 1:02:00
Reification in any consciousness: 1:08:00
Nihilism & the Middle Way: 1:09:20
Trying to make things go away: 1:20:00

Steam entry
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jYqNGiiX2cmOppb0_ZESpraGgbsoP5ir/view
What do YOU want? 17:30 & 21:20 & 32:42
"Furniture" is still there. Might need psychology 50:05
Value of emotions 1:13:00 

It's your pleasure and support that keeps you sane when you see that nothing gives permanent satisfaction. I personally would add an appreciation practice to some of the concentration. To appreciate the wonder of existence as a human being. You do this by imagining what you have now is lost and then come back to the present moment to see you still have it. Concentration, Metta and Appreciation are a protection from serious psychological problems that many yogi's get. I remember Shinzen Young talking about a student that became depressed. They literally had to remind him of the good things that are still here.

A lot of the side effects of a dry practice is from going into cold turkey with all the addictiveness thrown out the window, including some of the harmless stuff, and have the lower brain rebel in a nasty way. Try to move back and forth between pleasure in concentration and insight to its impermanence. You need to maintain your mental health because some of the advice thrown around is too dry. 

This video below has Britton's explanations of how bad it can get, and it can get very bad if practice gets out of balance:

Improving concentration:
https://youtu.be/33_b8yKWTFs

Remember that a lot of impermanence is just waiting for impulses to go away on their own. Maintain your concentration but be aware of any pushing and pulling you are doing in the practice that tries to make things go away. I've already been through all this stuff and what helps is to bring more concentration and relaxation back into the practice (wet path). One of the ways of losing clinging is to have so much pleasure with practice that other external sources 

You are also entitled to come up with your own goals vs. classical enlightenment of 4 paths. In the video above from Rob Burbea, and he said "it's your right to look at a person's version of enlightenment and say 'You can keep it!'" 

You also need to take care of yourself in the most basic ways. This may not be your situation, but many meditators get caught in this trap where they think it's bad clinging to take care of one's needs and do good things for themselves. Spiritual Bypassing.

Spiritual Bypassing & Inner Bonding:
https://youtu.be/JVrkwqUdKE8

And of course, maintain a good diet and exercise as reasonable. Good luck with your practice!