Sequence of no-self development?

Nickolas Grabovac, modified 12 Years ago at 5/27/11 12:01 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 5/27/11 12:01 AM

Sequence of no-self development?

Posts: 19 Join Date: 2/10/11 Recent Posts
I'm curious if there is a particular sequence of perceptual changes in the middle paths with respect to experiencing no-self. What I have noticed in my practice is the following sequence of experiencing no-self:

1. sensations of breathing
2. looking at my hands
3. looking at my face
4. looking at the hands of other people
5. looking at my feet and legs
6. sensations in my feet and legs

The above seem to be quite stable, in the sense that I don't need to incline my awareness in any particular way to experience them - I just experience no-self in them whenever I notice or pay attention to them (since first experiencing them). Occasionally, I have experienced no-self in the sound of my voice or in hearing other sounds, but these do not have the same stability: the no-self experience comes and goes.

Anyone else experienced a particular order to this, or did it all happen at once?
Jake , modified 12 Years ago at 5/30/11 8:10 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 5/30/11 8:10 AM

RE: Sequence of no-self development?

Posts: 695 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
I don't know about this in terms of middle paths, but I have certainly noticed that a sense of "no-self" seems to tag itself to specific experiences once first experienced. For example, pressing a button on a certain piece of equipment at work always seems to be associated with a strong clear seeing of no-self. Walking through certain areas. Noticing the sensations of facial expressions. And so on--- in other words, I think it's totally idiosyncratic!

But it's interesting that an experience of no-self can become associated with certain phenomena in a habitual way. What does that tell us about the insight into no-self? What do you think? Is it that the sense of self stops being associated with those particular phenomena? Or is it that the sense of no-self is equally a construction, and becomes associated with those phenomena? Is it possible to make a new and different-- more empty-- sense of self out of no-self experiences? Could this be related to the golden chains?
Elena Joy, modified 12 Years ago at 8/9/11 1:15 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/9/11 1:14 AM

RE: Sequence of no-self development?

Posts: 98 Join Date: 6/30/11 Recent Posts
Experiencing no-self? Return to naturalness. No observer. If you eat - eat. If you walk - walk. That's about it. Just being without the witness.

Look up my blog - it is full of accounts of people realizing no-self, and nobody talks about sequence of no-self development. How it even can be? There is no self. It is never being there. How you can develop self or no-self, kind of nonsense, no?

Complete Humanity

M N, modified 11 Years ago at 5/13/12 5:14 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 5/13/12 5:14 AM

RE: Sequence of no-self development?

Posts: 210 Join Date: 3/3/12 Recent Posts
In my experience, this kind of no-self experiences are associated with an awareness that is strong, as Kenneth Folk says, just enought to allow the mind to make contact with the object; otherwise there is the sense of someone actually putting there the attention, or maybe, the fact that you are pushing your attention to specific parts of your body creates active responses (i.e. tiny muscolar contractions) that seems to belong to someone; I find also interesting to investigate the sensations that seem to imply both someone putting the attention somewhere and the active responses in you body that creates the idea that thoose sensations in some way "belong", "are related" to someone...

What do you mean by "looking at the hands of other people"?