Words fail to arise - Discussion
Hi,
As you can see from some of my earlier threads, I've had trouble noting with words from the beginning. I haven't really managed to solve this problem, but I think I have a clearer idea of what it is. Sorry for the long post!
When I sit and observe my experience of the current moment, either trying to catch everything that's going on, or trying to focus on one feature that seems the most salient (which one should I do? does it matter?), words do not occur to me spontaneously. If I try to implement the noting technique as recommended, by speaking a single word in my mind, I generally have to divert my attention from my experience and try to translate the experience into a word (it literally feels a bit like stopping to translate into a foreign language), which feels difficult and unnatural. Most of the time no word occurs to me when I observe, say, my bodily sensations. What I get instead of words is some kind of intuitive "knowing" that operates much faster than spoken words and is hard to identify. My mental reaction to a sensation can include both words and images (in a space of time shorter than it takes for me to say a word, aloud or mentally) but those always seem to be shadows (poor, lossy translations) of the more vague intuitive knowing.
If I try to force myself to choose a word to repeat every moment, I seem to end up biased towards parts of my experience for which I can come up with words, such as 'rising' and 'falling'. This tends to eventually cause my mind to wander because I'm effectively not noting things I can't find words for (the majority), and of course I will end up daydreaming about those.
What I've had more success with is what I think is noting in my natural - fast, intuitive, multi-media (amorphous blob of words, images and more vague stuff) - mode of thinking. I try to know precisely what I'm experiencing at each moment, where I try to hard to make the "moment" as short as possible and to keep the mindfulness continuous (don't let the mind wander for even a split second). When I do this, I can manage much longer without losing my mindfulness than with the "spoken words" noting. Both the mindfulness and my concentration also seem to grow much more intense this way; mindfulness in the sense that I seem to be able to notice much more (deeper?) much faster, and concentration in the sense that my experience seems to shift into a state that's quite different from my mundane consciousness. The precise nature of the state varies (and indeed with this kind of "noting" everything tends to shift subtly all the time quite quickly), but often it includes a kind of pleasantness that seems to correspond to some low-tier jhana.
I went on my first retreat in late April - a great experience that I should write more about when I can find the time. (Writing posts can take me hours because I have trouble finding words in my day-to-day life as well.
Suffice to say for now that the retreat was a Mahasi retreat at Satipanya, and I highly recommend both the place and the resident teacher, Bhante Bodhidhamma.
When I tried to ask Bhante about whether you actually had to speak words, or if it was ok to just "think them" faster than you could actually speak - basically a clumsier formulation of the wall of text above - he asked me whether I can read much faster than I speak; I can and almost invariably do, unless I'm having a hard time concentrating. I don't remember exactly what he said after that, but I think it was along the lines that people who read very fast may also naturally tend to note much quicker than speech. I realized just now that the way I experience things naturally (what I tried to describe above) is a bit similar to how I read a book when I'm concentrated. When I read, I somehow take in all the words much faster than I could speak them. Some of the words that I read may actually pop up as "heard" words in my mind, but it's just one aspect of an amorphous blob of words, images, emotions and thought forms that I wouldn't know how to define.
Erm, anyway, I guess I want to ask you whether it sounds like this "intuitive noting" is a valid vipassana practice that will take me towards liberation rather than away from it. It feels like I make progress (in the sense of experiencing things that seem to fit into what I know of the progress of insight) this way whereas the (mentally) spoken words only frustrate me and make my mind wander; still, I'm always paranoid about these things.
As you can see from some of my earlier threads, I've had trouble noting with words from the beginning. I haven't really managed to solve this problem, but I think I have a clearer idea of what it is. Sorry for the long post!
When I sit and observe my experience of the current moment, either trying to catch everything that's going on, or trying to focus on one feature that seems the most salient (which one should I do? does it matter?), words do not occur to me spontaneously. If I try to implement the noting technique as recommended, by speaking a single word in my mind, I generally have to divert my attention from my experience and try to translate the experience into a word (it literally feels a bit like stopping to translate into a foreign language), which feels difficult and unnatural. Most of the time no word occurs to me when I observe, say, my bodily sensations. What I get instead of words is some kind of intuitive "knowing" that operates much faster than spoken words and is hard to identify. My mental reaction to a sensation can include both words and images (in a space of time shorter than it takes for me to say a word, aloud or mentally) but those always seem to be shadows (poor, lossy translations) of the more vague intuitive knowing.
If I try to force myself to choose a word to repeat every moment, I seem to end up biased towards parts of my experience for which I can come up with words, such as 'rising' and 'falling'. This tends to eventually cause my mind to wander because I'm effectively not noting things I can't find words for (the majority), and of course I will end up daydreaming about those.
What I've had more success with is what I think is noting in my natural - fast, intuitive, multi-media (amorphous blob of words, images and more vague stuff) - mode of thinking. I try to know precisely what I'm experiencing at each moment, where I try to hard to make the "moment" as short as possible and to keep the mindfulness continuous (don't let the mind wander for even a split second). When I do this, I can manage much longer without losing my mindfulness than with the "spoken words" noting. Both the mindfulness and my concentration also seem to grow much more intense this way; mindfulness in the sense that I seem to be able to notice much more (deeper?) much faster, and concentration in the sense that my experience seems to shift into a state that's quite different from my mundane consciousness. The precise nature of the state varies (and indeed with this kind of "noting" everything tends to shift subtly all the time quite quickly), but often it includes a kind of pleasantness that seems to correspond to some low-tier jhana.
I went on my first retreat in late April - a great experience that I should write more about when I can find the time. (Writing posts can take me hours because I have trouble finding words in my day-to-day life as well.
Suffice to say for now that the retreat was a Mahasi retreat at Satipanya, and I highly recommend both the place and the resident teacher, Bhante Bodhidhamma. When I tried to ask Bhante about whether you actually had to speak words, or if it was ok to just "think them" faster than you could actually speak - basically a clumsier formulation of the wall of text above - he asked me whether I can read much faster than I speak; I can and almost invariably do, unless I'm having a hard time concentrating. I don't remember exactly what he said after that, but I think it was along the lines that people who read very fast may also naturally tend to note much quicker than speech. I realized just now that the way I experience things naturally (what I tried to describe above) is a bit similar to how I read a book when I'm concentrated. When I read, I somehow take in all the words much faster than I could speak them. Some of the words that I read may actually pop up as "heard" words in my mind, but it's just one aspect of an amorphous blob of words, images, emotions and thought forms that I wouldn't know how to define.
Erm, anyway, I guess I want to ask you whether it sounds like this "intuitive noting" is a valid vipassana practice that will take me towards liberation rather than away from it. It feels like I make progress (in the sense of experiencing things that seem to fit into what I know of the progress of insight) this way whereas the (mentally) spoken words only frustrate me and make my mind wander; still, I'm always paranoid about these things.
