practice thread #1-0

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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
howdy yall. I've been working on this stuff for about 1 month with intent now. before it was too sparse, i wasn't self-aware enough on a moment-to-moment basis to really "get it". i'm writing these here that i might come back to them and check my progress, give myself tips. this probably won't help anyone else, and if you're looking here for advice, my advice is to go outside and practice instead of sitting in here reading.

any AF people, please point out fallacies, inaccuracies, or insights that could help. thanks.

yesterday i had a PCE. pure form lasted maybe 3 minutes, then a good 20 minutes of EE. Some insights i had:

- pce is "giving up" in its purest form. a holistic giving up, giving up on the level of life and death. confidence / felicity are the best "gateway" to it.

- if you can harness the fear of death, you can "Drop below" it in a way and get into pce.

- nothing is really different at all, but everything is seen to be alive, vibrant. it's just "no lens". just what's here, without "me".

- the idea of faith may be debated to high hell here, but it helps either way. have faith in what's here. find the string, the thin string of constantly running "what's wrong NOW?" in your mind, and just drop it.

- when practicing sensuousness, there is often the feeling of "investigating". this is especially hard for me to drop. the feeling of "looking for" a pce or "Waiting for" something to change, as if anything actually changes.

- haietmoba runs like a motor when you're close to pce. moment to moment to moment to moment to moment to....
Adam Bieber, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 112 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
#1 - 0:
I've been working on this stuff for about 1 month with intent now.


Hey man, this is huge. Making the transition between flittering around and being like I WANT AF NOW is huge and sets a chain reaction toward progress, progress, progress. To keep things in perspective along the road, sometimes think about how much better life is now then just a week ago so your "self" can relax about making progress.

#1 - 0:

the idea of faith may be debated to high hell here, but it helps either way. have faith in what's here. find the string, the thin string of constantly running "what's wrong NOW?" in your mind, and just drop it.


Having faith in the actual world is definitely helpful, it gives one confidence. Different strategies/focuses will work for you at different times of your practice. Like having faith now helps instill confidence and drives "you" to continue in hopes of becoming free but as the self diminishes and you can easily EE, faith will diminish as a belief/feeling because it is part of the self and you'll just "know" experientially without a doubt, the actual world exists and is awesomeeeee.


#1 - 0:

- haietmoba runs like a motor when you're close to pce. moment to moment to moment to moment to moment to....

cool.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
another ee today, couldnt quite get back to pce levels but i'm getting more of a sense of what it means to be the body sans self. it's like... strangely familiar feeling, strangely easy, almost the sense that i've been doing this my whole life but just never in a totally holistic application like this.

it's just what's there... minus you. everything else is there except you are nowhere to be found. this makes awareness fluid and prevents it from getting "stuck" on anything. the only problem differentiating this to PCE is that the PCEs had far more clarity, vividness, and ease of use, whereas theres actually an element to the EE that "I" finds frustrating, like, a disparity of focus or inability to focus.

Like: In "I"'s normal visual perception it "clamps down" on stuff using focus and then "samples" due to attention wave over insight cycles. in PCE there is no "clamping" or "focus" but there seems to be something like focus that arises, a sort of clear gradient from the visual point outwards, so that no part of the visual field is excluded. or maybe this is an EE quality and i haven't "hit" a true PCE yet.

Either way, this is all very exciting and its good to know that if you are getting caught in richard's garish verbage: most of what he's saying is, in a strange roundabout sort of way, really BASIC LOGIC. It's absolutely the *simplest* thing ever. like pure intent, it's just... WANTING to do it. the wanting that comes from not wanting to be malicious or sorrowful, the wanting that comes from wanting to be happy and harmless. really WANTING it. when you really want something, you have the energy to do it naturally... if you want to play ball, for instance, it starts as a thought and then you simply have the energy to do it because of your wanting. that is exactly how this works.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
This is really simple... really straightforward. So straightforward that if you're trying at all, you'll miss it. just relax, cool yourself out, enjoy the sensations. right now you're just like a big entertainment center, you've got entertainment streaming in every sense gate. watch them, get into different ones, inspect the sensations in an enjoyable way, like you're sampling it like a wine or something. take in the smell; what's the texture like? what's the emotive quality it evokes? nevermind that you're trying to drop it, just watch it. what sounds are around right now? how do they "rub" your ears?

Look at the visual field. Look at the lights, the way they drape across the room. the light and the shadows. Notice how there's nothing really different about light or shadow. Just different hues, different values, one isn't "above" or "Below" another, one isn't the CAUSE of the other, they're both just there. Don't think, don't talk, just look. touch. taste. smell. enjoy it.

richard's loquacious manner has a lot of people's head spinning; just turn it off. none of these concepts are fancy, shiny, high tech, nothing remarkable about them. it's just paying attention in the most basic way.
Nad A., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 237 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
#1 - 0:
This is really simple... really straightforward. So straightforward that if you're trying at all, you'll miss it. just relax, cool yourself out, enjoy the sensations. right now you're just like a big entertainment center, you've got entertainment streaming in every sense gate. watch them, get into different ones, inspect the sensations in an enjoyable way, like you're sampling it like a wine or something. take in the smell; what's the texture like? what's the emotive quality it evokes? nevermind that you're trying to drop it, just watch it. what sounds are around right now? how do they "rub" your ears?

Look at the visual field. Look at the lights, the way they drape across the room. the light and the shadows. Notice how there's nothing really different about light or shadow. Just different hues, different values, one isn't "above" or "Below" another, one isn't the CAUSE of the other, they're both just there. Don't think, don't talk, just look. touch. taste. smell. enjoy it.

richard's loquacious manner has a lot of people's head spinning; just turn it off. none of these concepts are fancy, shiny, high tech, nothing remarkable about them. it's just paying attention in the most basic way.


It's really not that simple to 'enjoy' the sensations. I grant that it is simple to watch them, inspect them, sample them... but to 'enjoy' them is the hard part.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
Nad A.:
#1 - 0:
This is really simple... really straightforward. So straightforward that if you're trying at all, you'll miss it. just relax, cool yourself out, enjoy the sensations. right now you're just like a big entertainment center, you've got entertainment streaming in every sense gate. watch them, get into different ones, inspect the sensations in an enjoyable way, like you're sampling it like a wine or something. take in the smell; what's the texture like? what's the emotive quality it evokes? nevermind that you're trying to drop it, just watch it. what sounds are around right now? how do they "rub" your ears?

Look at the visual field. Look at the lights, the way they drape across the room. the light and the shadows. Notice how there's nothing really different about light or shadow. Just different hues, different values, one isn't "above" or "Below" another, one isn't the CAUSE of the other, they're both just there. Don't think, don't talk, just look. touch. taste. smell. enjoy it.

richard's loquacious manner has a lot of people's head spinning; just turn it off. none of these concepts are fancy, shiny, high tech, nothing remarkable about them. it's just paying attention in the most basic way.


It's really not that simple to 'enjoy' the sensations. I grant that it is simple to watch them, inspect them, sample them... but to 'enjoy' them is the hard part.



it's incredibly simple.

watching/inspecting/sampling = "I" am inspecting sensations ("those" / "them")
enjoying = just the sensations, no "i" trying to get control

inspection / investigation is, in a subtle way, trying to "hold on" to sensations, to pin them down and grab them
enjoyment doesn't get that involved in them, they just float in and out in perfect clarity but no "holding"
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
just came out of a PCE, dropped into an EE. time for some RAMBLING!!! hahahahaha


i feel incredible. nothing can hurt me because i'm already dead. lmao.

you just... stop having a self. stop. instead of THINKING about getting rid of a self you just drop it like a hot potato.

just... what's here? anything else is BS. what is HERE? it's perfect. the end. hahahaha ultimately "working through" our shit was just a disguise for MORE LOOKING... even working through it in the OTHER sense was screwing us up. it's JUST what's here, none of that extra stuff. this is so easy it's stupid.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 2198 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
hehe why did you decide to start rambling instead of going back into the PCE? that self gotcha again ... =P. fun stuff though.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
hehe why did you decide to start rambling instead of going back into the PCE? that self gotcha again ... =P. fun stuff though.



haha BINGO!!!
fred flinstone, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 50 Join Date: 6/12/11 Recent Posts
#1 - 0:

you just... stop having a self. stop. instead of THINKING about getting rid of a self you just drop it like a hot potato.

just... what's here? anything else is BS. what is HERE? it's perfect. the end. hahahaha ultimately "working through" our shit was just a disguise for MORE LOOKING... even working through it in the OTHER sense was screwing us up. it's JUST what's here, none of that extra stuff. this is so easy it's stupid.


what?!?! how do i drop it like a hot potato?

"it's just what's here" do you mean pay attention to just what's here? when i do that it's just like... "so what? there are some objects here... big deal"

"this is so easy it's stupid." oh great now I'm stupider than stupid
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
fred flinstone:
#1 - 0:

you just... stop having a self. stop. instead of THINKING about getting rid of a self you just drop it like a hot potato.

just... what's here? anything else is BS. what is HERE? it's perfect. the end. hahahaha ultimately "working through" our shit was just a disguise for MORE LOOKING... even working through it in the OTHER sense was screwing us up. it's JUST what's here, none of that extra stuff. this is so easy it's stupid.


what?!?! how do i drop it like a hot potato?

"it's just what's here" do you mean pay attention to just what's here? when i do that it's just like... "so what? there are some objects here... big deal"

"this is so easy it's stupid." oh great now I'm stupider than stupid



it wasn't meant in that way. the point is that actual freedom doesn't require " you " to bend your mind "around" anything or any concept or any way of seeing things, it's just seeing what's here in the *simplest* way
Paul Rogers, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 5 Join Date: 5/13/11 Recent Posts
Nad A.:

It's really not that simple to 'enjoy' the sensations. I grant that it is simple to watch them, inspect them, sample them... but to 'enjoy' them is the hard part.



Do you believe that, by default, sensate experience is neither enjoyable nor unpleasant but neutral, and enjoyment (or suffering) is something we superimpose?

If so, you might try inverting this belief in your mind. Assume for the moment that, by default, sensate experience is superb, delightful, hassle free, and perfectly satisfactory. The neutrality and lack-of-satisfactoriness which you currently take to be the default is actually a subtle layer of suffering superimposed upon what would otherwise be an intrinsically excellent, pure and fascinating "twinkling sensorium". Any attempt to watch, inspect or sample sensations from that slightly-suffering bystander perspective is tainted, because there is a subtle suffering and separation already in place, right at its root. Your belief that sensate experience is neutral and not-entirely-satisfactory validates this subtle suffering and separateness, and makes you seek something to bridge the gap. You then try to gain felicity, as if it's something you must acquire, but can't.

As an antidote, you might try to simply be (or allow yourself to be) the sensations[1] and have confidence that, if you do, the experience of being alive is just fine.

I hope this makes sense to you.

Paul

[1] If that doesn't make sense, try this: allow yourself to not be anything other than the sensations, and have confidence that it's fine to do so.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
Paul Rogers:
Nad A.:

It's really not that simple to 'enjoy' the sensations. I grant that it is simple to watch them, inspect them, sample them... but to 'enjoy' them is the hard part.



Do you believe that, by default, sensate experience is neither enjoyable nor unpleasant but neutral, and enjoyment (or suffering) is something we superimpose?

If so, you might try inverting this belief in your mind. Assume for the moment that, by default, sensate experience is superb, delightful, hassle free, and perfectly satisfactory. The neutrality and lack-of-satisfactoriness which you currently take to be the default is actually a subtle layer of suffering superimposed upon what would otherwise be an intrinsically excellent, pure and fascinating "twinkling sensorium". Any attempt to watch, inspect or sample sensations from that slightly-suffering bystander perspective is tainted, because there is a subtle suffering and separation already in place, right at its root. Your belief that sensate experience is neutral and not-entirely-satisfactory validates this subtle suffering and separateness, and makes you seek something to bridge the gap. You then try to gain felicity, as if it's something you must acquire, but can't.

As an antidote, you might try to simply be (or allow yourself to be) the sensations[1] and have confidence that, if you do, the experience of being alive is just fine.

I hope this makes sense to you.

Paul

[1] If that doesn't make sense, try this: allow yourself to not be anything other than the sensations, and have confidence that it's fine to do so.



this is exactly what i'm saying. yes. just *what's there*.
Nad A., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 237 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
Paul Rogers:
Nad A.:

It's really not that simple to 'enjoy' the sensations. I grant that it is simple to watch them, inspect them, sample them... but to 'enjoy' them is the hard part.



Do you believe that, by default, sensate experience is neither enjoyable nor unpleasant but neutral, and enjoyment (or suffering) is something we superimpose?


No

I hope this makes sense to you.


Makes sense, yes. Works, no. I've been an actualist for years so I'm familiar with the ideas and I've certainly tried the things you suggest.

What I was saying is that it's not simple to 'enjoy' the sensations because there's usually some habitual passion/emotion ruining things. Unlike the nobel prize-winning psychiatrists on here, unravelling the neuroses and insecurities, reactions and moods that make up the human condition is not a simple process for me.
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Nikolai ., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Nad A.:


What I was saying is that it's not simple to 'enjoy' the sensations because there's usually some habitual passion/emotion ruining things. Unlike the nobel prize-winning psychiatrists on here, unravelling the neuroses and insecurities, reactions and moods that make up the human condition is not a simple process for me.


Stream Entry makes it slightly more possible, MCTB 4th path makes it very possible and in fact quite easy after you get the hang of it.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 2198 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:
Nad A.:


What I was saying is that it's not simple to 'enjoy' the sensations because there's usually some habitual passion/emotion ruining things. Unlike the nobel prize-winning psychiatrists on here, unravelling the neuroses and insecurities, reactions and moods that make up the human condition is not a simple process for me.


Stream Entry makes it slightly more possible, MCTB 4th path makes it very possible and in fact quite easy after you get the hang of it.


yea i want to also say (in addition to bruno + nick) that stream entry might be a good goal for you. a different technique so you'll have no preconception about it, and once you get it it'll be easier to see why the actualist method isn't working for you and get it to work for you.
Nad A., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 237 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:
Nad A.:


What I was saying is that it's not simple to 'enjoy' the sensations because there's usually some habitual passion/emotion ruining things. Unlike the nobel prize-winning psychiatrists on here, unravelling the neuroses and insecurities, reactions and moods that make up the human condition is not a simple process for me.


Stream Entry makes it slightly more possible, MCTB 4th path makes it very possible and in fact quite easy after you get the hang of it.


Yes, I'm sure you're right about that.

I may be out of the loop here, perhaps the presumption in this forum is of having attained (at least) SE. Perhaps #1-0 was talking about it being simple for SE people to enjoy sensations?
Paul Rogers, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 5 Join Date: 5/13/11 Recent Posts
Nad A.:

Makes sense, yes. Works, no. I've been an actualist for years so I'm familiar with the ideas and I've certainly tried the things you suggest.

What I was saying is that it's not simple to 'enjoy' the sensations because there's usually some habitual passion/emotion ruining things. Unlike the nobel prize-winning psychiatrists on here, unravelling the neuroses and insecurities, reactions and moods that make up the human condition is not a simple process for me.



Do you feel you need to remain emotionally vigilant lest you be (or seem) incompetent, insane, weird, dangerous, or otherwise unacceptable to other people?

You, the actual person, are naturally intelligent and capable of handling life perfectly well, but you probably believe that 'you' are necessary to maintain something, or to avert disaster of some kind.

The practice being discussed here, as I understand it, isn't as complicated as "unraveling the neuroses...", but simply of (initially) letting it all subside in order to discover another, simpler, less troublesome way of being here. This is what eventually gives you the confidence that 'you' are not needed, and 'your' vigilance is actually the problem, not the solution.

Paul
Nad A., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 237 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
Paul Rogers:
The practice being discussed here, as I understand it, isn't as complicated as "unraveling the neuroses...", but simply of (initially) letting it all subside in order to discover another, simpler, less troublesome way of being here. This is what eventually gives you the confidence that 'you' are not needed, and 'your' vigilance is actually the problem, not the solution.


I was talking about actualism as described on the actual freedom website. What is involved is a deep and thorough investigation and unravelling of the human condition. Google "site:www.actualfreedom.com.au unravel" for a glimpse.
Adam Bieber, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 112 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
enjoying the physical senses is not difficult at all. You do it every day. When you take a hot shower, the water against your skin feels great or how about the tasting of delicious food. You want to have those physical sensations last without internal proliferations/disruptions. Enjoying the senses is not some godly otherworldly pleasure made up by your imagination.

When an internal disruption occurs, you investigate, build felicitous feeling, and then try to use sensuous attention to minimize proliferation and maximize feeling sense. If an internal proliferation is bothersome, you just gotta ride the wave with attentiveness until a. you replace the "bad" feeling with felicity or b. it goes away on its own. Actualism is essentially lengthening awareness of the sense "doors" while minimizing internal interference. With no internal world hampering you with beliefs and sticky feelings, it is just relaxing, smooth, and pleasurable to be alive in this colorful world. They say it is the simples pleasures that make life wonderful like a colorful sunset or cuddling with a pet but what if the simple pleasures happened each and every moment. That is actualism.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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if you're too wrapped up in the *method* then you won't get what's here.

it makes you INVESTIGATE... but you won't find this by investigating or searching. Think about it. How can you find WHAT'S HERE by SEARCHING? It's ALREADY HERE. It's just that right now your imagination is *propping up* a bunch of stuff *behind* or *around* what's here. But that's not actually here.


Here. I drew up a picture to try and explain what i'm talking about. My advice is not to overcomplicate or "methodize" things, just remember, what's here is always perfect, and just keep drawing yourself back to that.



The ying-yangs here represent the "issues" that "you" are trying to work "through". Notice that they are all loops; this will alert you to the fact that "YOU" can never finish because as long as "you" are working on them, you are in a LOOP.

Investigation is good for getting a handle on some of them once you figure out how to look at the simple *fact* of emotions rather than getting caught in *stuff*. This is where stream entry can be handy, but it still hasn't solved the problem.

PCE is a lot more like *forgetting yourself*.
Paul Rogers, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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Nad A.:

I was talking about actualism as described on the actual freedom website. What is involved is a deep and thorough investigation and unravelling of the human condition. Google "site:www.actualfreedom.com.au unravel" for a glimpse.


Yes, but you've already done the "deep and thorough investigation" and you know it's not sensible to suffer for any reason. Now you need a practical way to act on that understanding. That's what this thread is about (as I see it), the mechanics of acting on that understanding ("unraveling").

So, what happens when you consciously allow yourself not to be anything other than the senses/sensations? Can you let everything happen automatically, knowing that your built-in intelligence can and will handle everything without 'you' needing to know how in advance? What happens if you do that?

Paul
Nad A., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 237 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
Paul Rogers:
Nad A.:

I was talking about actualism as described on the actual freedom website. What is involved is a deep and thorough investigation and unravelling of the human condition. Google "site:www.actualfreedom.com.au unravel" for a glimpse.


Yes, but you've already done the "deep and thorough investigation" and you know it's not sensible to suffer for any reason. Now you need a practical way to act on that understanding. That's what this thread is about (as I see it), the mechanics of acting on that understanding ("unraveling").


No the investigation (in the version of actualism found on the AF website) happens on every issue found, every feeling discovered... not just once to establish that it's not sensible to suffer for any reason. For example, you can read about Vineeto experiencing an emotion e.g. shame and investigating and unraveling her beliefs of e.g. what it means to be a woman in society etc

You can have a look at this page to see what I mean: http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/actualism/vineeto/selected-writings/investigatefeelings.htm

So, what happens when you consciously allow yourself not to be anything other than the senses/sensations? Can you let everything happen automatically, knowing that your built-in intelligence can and will handle everything without 'you' needing to know how in advance? What happens if you do that?


What normally happens when I try those things is firstly nothing... nothing changes, no mood lifting, no felicity.. then after half an hour or so, new frustration leaving me feeling worse than however I originally felt.
Paul Rogers, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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Nad A.:

What normally happens when I try those things is firstly nothing... nothing changes, no mood lifting, no felicity.. then after half an hour or so, new frustration leaving me feeling worse than however I originally felt.


OK, thank you for trying and answering. I know how this feels because it took me years to find a reliable practice method. Strategies that worked for other people hardly ever worked for me. I guess you just have to keep experimenting until you hit upon something that cuts through the confusion and complications in a practical way. There is mounting evidence that there's more than one way to do it.

Paul
fred flinstone, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 50 Join Date: 6/12/11 Recent Posts
That you are frustrated seems to imply that the whole while that you were focusing on the senses you were straining for results. You have to try and shift your intent from achieving to being happy/harmless. This is something I realized only yesterday, despite the fact that everyone is saying it all the time, so maybe I'll kind of forget it again in another day. But from where I am right now, it looks like any frustration is showing that one has a set agenda and expectations, even if that agenda is to enjoy your senses.

Try to come at the sensuous attention practice without any knowledge that there are more pleasant states, and without judging your current state to be unsatisfactory. Come at the practice with more of a "discoverer's" attitude. Make the subtle shift from feeling like there is something to do and then you can just 'be' to that there is nothing to do and you can just let the parts of you that aren't involved in apperception rest. Just notice the palpable relaxation that is felt when you let the 'doing' relax. If frustration can even arise, that means you are bringing some sense of a goal to your sensuous attention.

All 'you' can do is turn your attention and recognize silliness. You can't really force yourself to perceive anything, just turn your attention toward the clean sensations and be OK with whatever they are, whether they look cool or not. The physical senses aren't 'you' so it shouldn't really matter if they are pleasant or not. What is 'you' are the affective sensations, and so those are the ones you should care about, those are the ones you can control. All you control is your attitude towards consciousness, not the actual sensations that make it up, but if you change your attitude towards them, you might start to find them alot nicer.

physical/cognitive consciousness is really the 'constant' in the equation, the variable is your attitude. buddhism is nice because it makes the attitude equanimous, but actualism makes there just be no attitude.
Nad A., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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fred flinstone:
You have to try and shift your intent from achieving to being happy/harmless. This is something I realized only yesterday, despite the fact that everyone is saying it all the time, so maybe I'll kind of forget it again in another day.


Or more likely, you'll remember it (especially having written it down), but it just won't work anymore.
fred flinstone, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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That's happened to me plenty of times, but this time I think it's different because there is no sense that I need something to 'work'
I'm just noticing the fact that my physical consciousness is out of my control but my attitude is in my control, I don't see how that could stop 'working.' I think that when methods 'stop working' it's just because one develops an attitude towards consciousness, usually of self-righteous frustration. But now I see that the only problem is that attitude, and that the actual consciousness off of which that attitude feeds is fine. Even the physical pain of the attitude isn't the problem, it's the beliefs which make up the attitude. It's really just the HAIETMOBA method, just now understood correctly. HAIETMOBA's sole weapon is the cognitive perception of wrongness or silliness. It accepts that what is physically felt is a constant, only what is thought of as silly/sensible can be changed. And that's all that needs to change, the changing of physical sensations is a consequence.

Try and have no attitude towards the uncomfortable affective sensations, and have no attitude towards not experiencing the wonder, no attitude towards not enjoying. Now with the lack of beliefs/attitudes/opinions just start to turn awareness towards all the little details of all that is consciousness. If you don't immediately start to feel better, don't have an attitude towards that, just keep awareness fixed where it is, and keep perceiving the wrongness of attitudes towards what that awareness picks up.

Constantly perceive the silliness, moment to moment, with no exceptions, no blindspots. I used to have a big blindspot with my attitude towards not enjoying, I thought of that frustration as righteous, but see the silliness there too. If it stops working for me (although I don't know what that would entail) I promise to let you know.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
been floating around EE zone most days. "i'm" having a rough time economically. it's seen to be a mental trick.

*freedom, strangely, is no prize. it's the exact opposite of "getting" anything.
*it's not like climbing a mountain to get to the peak. it's more like climbing a volcano and jumping into the top.
*at the risk of sounding frivolous, it is exactly like a very, very alert *not-shit-giving-ness*.
*once it gets you, its pretty obvious how simple actuality is. how could it be anything else than the simplest thing?

all of my advice is going to come in the form of pithy aphorisms so i highly recommend getting off the forum and not trying to *search* for it anymore, and start *finding* it. don't SEARCH for perfection, FIND it. you have to *want* all the sensations that are here if you are to delight in them.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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It's like replacing all of your body image with real kinesthetic sense. All of the energy being wasted in producing beliefs about self, in terms of image and protection, is replaced with actual experience at the sense gates.

You really don't need a guide to this. just keep deepening in sensory awareness and surf on delight wherever and whenever you find it. Easy easy easy.
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Jon T, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/30/10 Recent Posts
Would you recommend staying completely present within felicity or combining that with the deepest feelings like the feeling of being as well as the passions as they come up? When a passion does swell up, what is your response? How do you respond when sorrow appears? How do you prioritize your to-do lists? Do you allow mood to effect what you choose to do? Are you mood-less or is your mood currently always upbeat?
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
Jon T:
Would you recommend staying completely present within felicity or combining that with the deepest feelings like the feeling of being as well as the passions as they come up? When a passion does swell up, what is your response? How do you respond when sorrow appears? How do you prioritize your to-do lists? Do you allow mood to effect what you choose to do? Are you mood-less or is your mood currently always upbeat?




i don't think about it in methodological terms, but if I had to explain it as such, I'd say:

Felicity / delight is the access gate to PCE and it's most important to surf around on it whenever you can. The best way to get to it is to do things that you find fun, rewarding, satisfying.

When that's not around, I just take all the sensations that are a part of my current experience of reality and simply... experience. shoot for clarity.

if bad emotions come up, i just look at them in the most logical possible way. see how it's the opposite of a PCE. all the "bad" stuff is basically simple resistance against certain sensations, even at their worst that's what they are. resistance. actually, pretty much any time you aren't in PCE there is some minor form of resistance against some of the sensations that are happening right now. felicity / delight is really the best way to dump it though.

my mood, when it's present, is upbeat, really upbeat. i dont know if that's necessary for this though. only clarity is necessary.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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I'm on a road trip in Colorado currently. This place is amazing - so much incredible color and landscape. Slipped into an EPIC PCE that devolved into a much less epic but super enjoyable EE nonetheless last night - just felt like my senses all *popped out*. It's seriously so incredibly easy I don't understand WHY Richard had to write all that stuff on the website, so much of it is just superfluous arguing and other things that really have nothing to do with WHAT THIS IS.

One thing I noticed this time is that my HEARING was much more involved than previous ones, leading me to think that those were just EE's. They keep getting stronger every time. This time I noticed that I was processing all the sounds around me, and they seemed to be *surrounded* by a tangible yet calm *silence* - like, my mind was just not making any noise whatsoever. It was so calm and tranquil it was actually frightening a little, hahaha!

A TIP FOR READING THE ACTUAL FREEDOM WEBSITE:

Put yourself in Richard's shoes. Everything he writes is written from the perspective of *nobody home* - NO malice whatsoever, no nothing. He is seriously just innocent and innocence is so mind-breaking to normal people - the complete lack of fear embodied in a complete honesty in everything - that it COMES ACROSS as argumentative.

But seriously this is so friggin simple. If fears, desires, etc come up, just find the trigger, it's NEVER to do with the issue itself, it's always just some simple thing that just happened, some regular occurrence that probably only has a very ambiguous relation to the issue itself. Then just realize that you're just putting shit mentally over what's actually happening. Just stay with what's here in a simple, clear way and GET INTO what you're doing, jump into your activities with full force, HAVE FUN!! the whole point of this thing is to have TONS OF FUN all the time! So DO IT.
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Jon T, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/30/10 Recent Posts
Where are you travelling to?
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
Traveling to Loopkicks Acrobatics Camp in San Jose, California. I trick, which is basically a hybridized martial art / acrobatics style. check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o8rrbdzF5g

This is one of the kids traveling with us, a really really good one.

BTW, I'd like to mention that all of my current practice takes place in this environment: NO MONEY, squashed in a hot van with 10 other guys, sleeping on floors and training all day. Everything that would normally be a trigger for fear, desire, anger, etc is present and working through it all is a breeze.
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Jon T, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/30/10 Recent Posts
Extraordinary, stunning!

I live in Oakland and am currently working in San Jose. PM me if your down for a lunch.

jon
Adam Bieber, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 112 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
Hey man, its awesome that the AF method has been working so great for you (I've been having great results as well). Can you please explain a bit more about how AF has improved what seems like incredibly tough living conditions? This is interesting to me as I am pretty young and will have to choose different ways to support myself.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
Adam Bieber:
Hey man, its awesome that the AF method has been working so great for you (I've been having great results as well). Can you please explain a bit more about how AF has improved what seems like incredibly tough living conditions? This is interesting to me as I am pretty young and will have to choose different ways to support myself.



It has done nothing at all to the conditions themselves, it only effects your perception of them. I started from the base idea that all sensate experience is equally perfect, no matter if i'm rich or poor or anything else. Working from that as a base, it's easy to start enjoying whatever sensations are already here.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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A note: I seem to be a lot closer to it after a good samatha session. I'm not terribly good at concentration practice (i have a hard time getting past 2nd actually) but the calm presence it establishes is highly conducive to this sort of perception.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
radical sobriety. that's what this is. sober to your past, future, and imagined present. being totally aware.
work with inner silence. this is most important. once inner silence is attained, anything is possible.
work on intent. learn about it, learn to feel it, develop it as a skill. not just the pure intent to become AF, but doing everyday activities with a delightful intent. intent is a very appropriate term.

also, listen to the new Owl City album. Nice ear candy.
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

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WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?
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#1 - 0, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
Dick:
Then one is no longer intuitively making sense of life ... the delicious wonder of it all drives any such instinctive meaning away.

Dick:
Then one is no longer intuitively making sense of life ... the delicious wonder of it all drives any such instinctive meaning away.

Dick:
Then one is no longer intuitively making sense of life ... the delicious wonder of it all drives any such instinctive meaning away.

Dick:
Then one is no longer intuitively making sense of life ... the delicious wonder of it all drives any such instinctive meaning away.

Dick:
Then one is no longer intuitively making sense of life ... the delicious wonder of it all drives any such instinctive meaning away.

Dick:
Then one is no longer intuitively making sense of life ... the delicious wonder of it all drives any such instinctive meaning away.

Dick:
Then one is no longer intuitively making sense of life ... the delicious wonder of it all drives any such instinctive meaning away.
Dick:
Then one is no longer intuitively making sense of life ... the delicious wonder of it all drives any such instinctive meaning away.



this is enough
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Alyssa Rose Karsten, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: practice thread #1-0

Posts: 4 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
Paul Rogers:
Nad A.:

It's really not that simple to 'enjoy' the sensations. I grant that it is simple to watch them, inspect them, sample them... but to 'enjoy' them is the hard part.



Do you believe that, by default, sensate experience is neither enjoyable nor unpleasant but neutral, and enjoyment (or suffering) is something we superimpose?

If so, you might try inverting this belief in your mind. Assume for the moment that, by default, sensate experience is superb, delightful, hassle free, and perfectly satisfactory. The neutrality and lack-of-satisfactoriness which you currently take to be the default is actually a subtle layer of suffering superimposed upon what would otherwise be an intrinsically excellent, pure and fascinating "twinkling sensorium". Any attempt to watch, inspect or sample sensations from that slightly-suffering bystander perspective is tainted, because there is a subtle suffering and separation already in place, right at its root. Your belief that sensate experience is neutral and not-entirely-satisfactory validates this subtle suffering and separateness, and makes you seek something to bridge the gap. You then try to gain felicity, as if it's something you must acquire, but can't.

As an antidote, you might try to simply be (or allow yourself to be) the sensations[1] and have confidence that, if you do, the experience of being alive is just fine.

I hope this makes sense to you.

Paul

[1] If that doesn't make sense, try this: allow yourself to not be anything other than the sensations, and have confidence that it's fine to do so.


Carp on a shingle (intentional typo). Paul, you've nailed it for me. "slightly-suffering" "bystander perspective"

and "be or allow the sensations and have confidence that, if you do, the experience of being alive is just fine".