A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

herpderp ~, modified 11 Years ago at 6/17/11 9:30 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/17/11 9:30 AM

A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 5 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
  • Have you noticed a difference in the way others react to you?
  • Have you noticed any significant changes in your behavior in relationships or when in social situations? (for instance, a lack of or a reduction of anxiety, nervousness, or shyness?
  • How has attaining AF effected your drive to achieve other things in life... relationships, professional ambitions, etc?
, modified 11 Years ago at 6/19/11 12:39 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/19/11 12:39 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi Rob,

What are your reasons/is your interest for asking these questions?


1. Have you noticed a difference in the way others react to you?
There is a natural period of relational adjustment and scrutiny from one's relations: relations are often built on mutually agreed and repeated habits/behaviours/beliefs/disbeliefs/agreements/agreed discord/complicities/dependences/etc, and any change, including 'uncovering' (Af, annatta, [your word here]) - and the rate and depth to which that change occurs will either make the rates of change between two parties apparent or not apparent. It also depends on the sensitivity to change of the relevant parties.

In people I have known I have seen both aggressively angry reactions to the change in relativity as well as deepening of pure intention/capacity in whatever a person's practice is. People also have apparently not noticed or not said anything to convey noticing; such uncovered being is nothing special, so no reaction is also apt for some people. There is not much to react to, unless I engage with people's beliefs as expressed directly to me for my hearing/consideration.

2. Have you noticed any significant changes in your behavior in relationships or when in social situations? (for instance, a lack of or a reduction of anxiety, nervousness, or shyness?

Anxiety habits are now nearly gone - when they come up, there is a realization that a physical habit, a well-worn mental pathway is occurring. It is easy to stop, sometimes chuckle; if it occurs again, also ok. In social situations I now more likely attend to the person(s) and colourfulness of what is occurring in an exchange. My hearing is quite good, so my eyes water/tear in response to sounds occasionally or my attention wanders into the sounds (as before). The information of typical group occasions is no longer overwhelming or frustrating: not dissociating from what is happening nor caught. Engaging. Some family dynamics occurred in the past year that were quite painful/anxious to behold/unable to stop; if I run into such family today (and it may follow) there's no anxiety.

3. How has attaining AF effected your drive to achieve other things in life... relationships, professional ambitions, etc?

I wasn't ambitious before this condition of uncovered normalcy (actuality), although sometimes people said I took on ambitious projects - sometimes achieving, sometimes missing targets. In hindsight, I was cultivating an exaggerated discontent/frustration while cultivating an exaggerated sense of purpose/extra-nesses.

Realization regarding the nature of "selfhood" and physical here-ness avails anything. If I want to start a blog about celebrating healthful natural waterways and delicious fresh air, blue sky, rain, bossa guitar, I may. As a human, I exists/co-creates much of its immediate habitat. It is useful and pleasant for this particular human being to spend big parts of the day getting movement and especially in fresh air, outside, in the natural world. Sitting in a doctor's office last week under failing florescent lights in a windowless room it was apparent that such lighting was tolerated by the eyes/brain, but that a windowed room with natural light would have afforded this body conditions for a naturally relaxed state.

There's lots of research about the benefits of exercise, clean air and clean water --- then, there is human-knowing: thriving on movement, curiosity, fresh air and water, playfulness, solid sleep, snacks. I work in a nice cubicle (usefully free of ants from the natural world); when not at work, I do a lot now that cares for this human animal (fresh air, good eats, yoga, exercise, enjoyable human interactions, enjoyable animal/plant care/observation, local water quality interest). In the evenings I still read some books, a magazine article, DhO, dhamma, math, etc, or just go into sleeping. I don't know what causes laughter, but there's a bit of that, too.

Those exaggerations are not there now, yet there's more care/attention in any project/activity. This can result in slowness in work as well as alacrity.
herpderp ~, modified 11 Years ago at 6/20/11 3:37 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/20/11 3:32 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 5 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
Thank you for your answers, Katy emoticon

katy s:
Hi Rob,

What are your reasons/is your interest for asking these questions?



My academic and professional life is in the realm of social dynamics, interpersonal communication, and organizational communication. One of the seemingly prerequisite characteristics of naturally charismatic and influential communication is the near absence of self-reflexive thought, socially conditioned or self-imposed social inhibitions, and self-consciousness in the communicator.

From what I've been reading, post-AF individuals are likely to exhibit extremely authentic and unfiltered communication.

Have you noticed any change in your sense of humor, post-AF?
Adam Bieber, modified 11 Years ago at 6/20/11 9:36 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/20/11 4:46 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 112 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
Katy, are you AF?
If so, can you describe the last week or so before AF?
How did the passions show themselves, as minor sensations?
Did you replace the passions with felicity or did the nature of bordering on PCE make them temporary experiences?
Describe your pure intent please?
, modified 11 Years ago at 6/21/11 9:37 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/21/11 9:37 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi Rob,

My academic and professional life is in the realm of social dynamics, interpersonal communication, and organizational communication.
Do you practice actualism, jhanic methods, humility (i.e., via deism) or some other practice through which to assess your self and what it/you originate(s)? If so, would you share where you are in your practice?

Would you share where you are in your academic and professional life (i.e., freshman undergrad, tenured teacher, beginning PhD, etc)?

What are your motivations/attractions for doing this research?
Would you list as many of your reasons as you can and type an asterisk by the reasons which cause you the most physical and mental sensations/awareness?

____________

One of the seemingly prerequisite characteristics of naturally charismatic and influential communication is the near absence of self-reflexive thought, socially conditioned or self-imposed social inhibitions, and self-consciousness in the communicator.
Would you provide links to your or your guiding research underlying these seemingly prerequisite characteristics (absence of self-reflexive thought, socially conditioned or self-imposed social inhibitions, and self-consciousness in the communicator)?

Do you think there are there seemingly prerequisite characteristics that prevent authentic and unfiltered communication from fulfilling their role in paving the way for naturally charismatic and influential communication?

_____________

From what I've been reading, post-AF individuals are likely to exhibit extremely authentic and unfiltered communication.
These attributes are also given to populations along a diagnostic spectrum which western culture creates and calls autistic. Do you see this or other populations exhibiting such unfiltered communication (i.e., so-called 'trainable mentally retarded') and, if so, are these populations/individuals charismatic and influential by having the prerequisite lack of filter?


_____________

Have you noticed any change in your sense of humor, post-AF?
Work requires delta-tracking and cognitive thought, laughter has not so far. One change is that there isn't lingering on experiences like, "jeez, that was a good joke/meal/vacation/etc".


_____________

In what ways are you using or do you anticipate using this dialogue and dialogues on the DhO?
, modified 11 Years ago at 6/21/11 11:43 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/21/11 11:39 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi Adam,

How is your practice going?

Katy, are you AF?
Being comes from too many causes to count or recall...there is continuity: am I the-argument-with-the-recently-released-from-prisoner/musical-savant/human-last-summer-which-compelled-end-of-"dark-night", am I reading-zen-poetry? Am-I-zazen-with-Little-Suzuki's-students, am I build-a-cabin-in-a-remote-area-to-see-what-am-i-without-people? Am I the-patience/meanness/kindness/confusion-of-people-around-me? Am I patient/meanness/kindness/confusion? Am I the desiring-of-its-own-freedom? Where do the aforementioned start and stop? Am I typing? I am typing and experiencing a range of thoughts from which to pick; are you are typing and having a range of thoughts from which to pick? How many events in your life led to you to what you are doing at this moment? Is it the entirety of your existence? For me, what is now results from such entirety.

Actual Freedom Trust has some words which I could not understand and have no use for at the moment (e.g., harmless). Reading Stefanie's and Tarin's experiences of AF, however, made sense to me (as it does for many) and was compelling. Trent's and Daniel's comments were also useful. Actuality is economically free, sans guru or exotic access, and thoroughly enriched. The DhO-stage Daniel set was useful: forming a site (in addition to his book) and community which removes mystique. Without the site and engagement by members, I do not know what course I would have taken within the "dark night" peaking last summer. Am I actually free? Actual existence as an actual human, not lingering in other time zones/memories/forecasts. The human experience with a waning exhibition of habits of selfhood/identity is indeed remarkable and wondrous. I do not intend here to embellish on what is essentially overlooked brilliant normalcy in existing (overshadowed by insatiable, dissatisfied I-hood), but I find it also correct to state that it is wonderful, a pleasure. I do not know how it would be to be Mikha Riln in the same circumstances (he mentioned being in a corrupt area with crime); I cannot speak for conditions which I do not know. I do presently live within such an alternative economy area and may some day be positioned to weigh in on similar conditions, or not. No idea.

How did the passions show themselves, as minor sensations?
There are still habits, without passion. For example, shoulders will be rising during something habitual like analytical reading/editing, then there is something like wonder, "ah, that's what I was doing so many years", and shoulders relax, sink well. During non-habituated activities, then relaxed state is steady. Reflexes are fine, according to the few traffic events I've experienced. How to communicate: feeling exists (i.e., I enjoy my self and others), but not generated by "I". I don't want to confuse you, so suffice it to say, the change is one of gaining, not loss.

Did you replace the passions with felicity or did the nature of bordering on PCE make them temporary experiences?
A few weeks ago I saw the movie trailer for a documentary coming out (Buck) and something clicked usefully regarding understanding felicity. About a week later selfhood started to suddenly lift, which lift at first triggered a substantial fear of needing to go back to reclusive life; I contacted two monastics about oblation (something I've considered since a teen) and this contact also released the fear of selfhood lifting away (see also Bruno's comments on wanting sex in order to end the desire for sex (Disappearance of Bruno thread)).

Describe your pure intent please?
There was no doubt in my mind that this would be useful and appropriate now. The benefits of being a human (which has, among other attributes, innate and adequate care-giving and care-fulness for itself and others) would remain without the detriment of i-ness. "I" had had a very full life exploring and asserting itself. Some limitation of the I-experience became apparent. I realized that the process was going to happen on its own, and it did.

What is your experience of pure intention (does not have to be in regards to freedom via actuality)?

[Two edits: tired]
Adam Bieber, modified 11 Years ago at 6/24/11 8:31 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/24/11 8:26 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 112 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
Hey Katy,

Thanks for replying. The notion that being is too many causes is helpful since I experientially see that "I" am one feeling/belief after another. My practice is going great. The being has past the point of total control and just keeps fading. The dominant passion seems to be fear as of now, fear of the unknown which habitually occurs (as the next step or situation is always unknown).

I really think the being's days are numbered and am just going to continue with pure intent, which is zero suffering or harmlessness and happiness. Focusing on zero suffering leaves no room for error and keeps me enjoying now. I discover more about the actual world and how to stay there/here everyday. Congrats on your new lifestyle!

Adam
Trent , modified 11 Years ago at 6/24/11 10:30 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/24/11 10:30 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 361 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
hi adam,

Adam Bieber:
The dominant passion seems to be fear as of now, fear of the unknown which habitually occurs (as the next step or situation is always unknown).


what this might really be pointing to is a fear of not being able to survive or thrive if one does not feel one's way through life ... the fear of losing control, 'like a leaf in the wind'. the next step or situation is always right here, right now when it happens, and since you are also always right here, right now when events happen, you can know of everything that ever happens. practically speaking, this implies that you should really only give consideration to whatever you are doing right now. assuming you've figured out how to make progress ... take whatever method(s) you're been successful with, and simply apply it non-stop. don't worry about what the result will feel like, or whether you'll be happy about the results, or anything like that. the universe and the senses are always here, any time you look to verify, right? then it's reasonable to assume that the next step or situation will be in that same safe, stable place which you are likely very knowledgeable about. also, remember the pce; it demonstrates very well just how aware and safe one can be.

trent
, modified 11 Years ago at 6/25/11 6:56 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/25/11 6:55 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
Howdy Adam,

My practice is going great.
...
am just going to continue with pure intent


I remember learning how to do a bow-drill many years ago. This is a classic way to start a fire.

I would spin and spin and spin a stick between my hands and grind the stick into the recipient wood over kindling (such as milk thistle's cotton). It was exhausting, muscles burned. There was giving up. Restarting, giving up. In this life I wanted to know that I could make fire from this technique. So there was re-committing to making fire. Ah! Sparks, blowing, then fire grew.

I did not make the fire. I created conditions and sparks and fire occurred.

My practice is going great.
...
am just going to continue with pure intent


I am smiling.
fred flinstone, modified 11 Years ago at 6/25/11 10:39 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/25/11 10:39 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 50 Join Date: 6/12/11 Recent Posts
hey adam, i'm pretty far from where you are, but i still found this page interesting on the AF site, it's Vineeto talking about her experience in going from virtual to actual freedom. It is so far anyway, I was about halfway through it when I thought of your post.

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/actualism/vineeto/v-deathasc.htm
, modified 11 Years ago at 6/26/11 9:39 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/26/11 9:36 AM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
http://www.massgeneral.org/about/pressrelease.aspx?id=1329
[indent]Meditation group participants reported spending an average of 27 minutes each day practicing mindfulness exercises, and their responses to a mindfulness questionnaire indicated significant improvements compared with pre-participation responses. The analysis of MR images, which focused on areas where meditation-associated differences were seen in earlier studies, found increased grey-matter density in the hippocampus, known to be important for learning and memory, and in structures associated with self-awareness, compassion and introspection. Participant-reported reductions in stress also were correlated with decreased grey-matter density in the amygdala, which is known to play an important role in anxiety and stress. Although no change was seen in a self-awareness-associated structure called the insula, which had been identified in earlier studies, the authors suggest that longer-term meditation practice might be needed to produce changes in that area. None of these changes were seen in the control group, indicating that they had not resulted merely from the passage of time. [/indent]

I have no idea about the methodology of the above (or if self-awareness can accurately be associated with the insula, or the neutrality/perspective of the researchers, etc) , but if one is practicing actualism/mindfulness-via-anatta/*, one is getting more than 27 minutes a day.


EDIT:* or some other practices of unbound receptivity (i.e., absolute faith via deism...)
Adam Bieber, modified 11 Years ago at 6/26/11 2:41 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/26/11 2:33 PM

RE: A few non-practice questions for post-AF'ers

Posts: 112 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
Thank you Mr. Flinstone. The article is of great help. Haha Katy, im pretty sure i am practicing more than 27 minutes a day. My grey matter must be losing its grip emoticon.

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