Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos - Discussion
Made this short video after my main sit. It's a demonstration for those wondering what this Aloud Noting is.
Now that I look at it, it seems so uncool to sit on a chair and speak aloud while having open eyes
so not what meditation ought to look like 
Such a fantastic practice this is. Glad I restarted it as I haven't been practicing it since July last year.
By the way that Champagne bottle on the floor is empty and used for the New Years Eve cheers!
https://youtu.be/9FeajWRJcXA
Now that I look at it, it seems so uncool to sit on a chair and speak aloud while having open eyes
so not what meditation ought to look like Such a fantastic practice this is. Glad I restarted it as I haven't been practicing it since July last year.
By the way that Champagne bottle on the floor is empty and used for the New Years Eve
cheers! https://youtu.be/9FeajWRJcXA
Yes all sorts of stuff can arise. Also what you mention. I hear myself hence "hearing". When I vocalize then there is also "vibrations" in the head and throat. Dryness in the mouth as it's open often etc.
One object is being Noted Aloud and several more could be simply noticed at the very same time. All depends on the Stage ones mind is in.
Yes at times there is a remembering/planning thinking process going on parallel with let's say "seeing" and one can get slightly under the radar depending on the stage mind is in at that time.
What I do is keep eyes usually focused on one spot. This can change and move to another spot (dirt on the floor, or else). I find this helps with adding some concentration to the soup.
I do keep the body legs and arms in same position and NEVER do I scratch an ITCH Itch is such a great object to observe all the way from razer sharp unpleasantness to bubbling vibratory sensation of rather neutral feel.
At times there can be a question "Am I sure that I'm noting matter of fact ???" Then I look and listen and re-engage into Noting Aloud matter of fact.
All sorts of sensation and mind states arise It's a circus in there what a show!
One object is being Noted Aloud and several more could be simply noticed at the very same time. All depends on the Stage ones mind is in.
Yes at times there is a remembering/planning thinking process going on parallel with let's say "seeing" and one can get slightly under the radar depending on the stage mind is in at that time.
What I do is keep eyes usually focused on one spot. This can change and move to another spot (dirt on the floor, or else). I find this helps with adding some concentration to the soup.
I do keep the body legs and arms in same position and NEVER do I scratch an ITCH
Itch is such a great object to observe all the way from razer sharp unpleasantness to bubbling vibratory sensation of rather neutral feel. At times there can be a question "Am I sure that I'm noting matter of fact ???" Then I look and listen and re-engage into Noting Aloud matter of fact.
All sorts of sensation and mind states arise
It's a circus in there what a show!
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
There is no particular way that meditation should look like. I often meditate while going about my daily business. I like that I can meditate during job meetings. That makes them more productive. It's great that you have found a practice that you love. It seems to work well for you.
It might work well for anyone really. It's observing thisness without being torn up by hindrances.
Sure thing, Satipatthana in all positions and situations. Love this sport
Hi there!
I pracitced Shamatha as Calm-abiding, calming the body with each in and outbreath, whole body breathing rather than only focus on one spot. At that time I knew NOTHING about the 16 stages of insight.
My practice started as usually they start; not that easy to sit, lots of pain, lots of stiffness, lots or body jerks until one day (6 months into the practice) "my" Mind literally fell off far far into the background still rumbling and mumbling but very far away, and what was Here in this moment was clear open awareness in the body with its sensations. After that meditaion wnt on fire. I thought this thing is the best thing in the world and EVERYONE should do it!
This period of easy and long daily meditations went on for a quiet a bit and I felt like a Mighty meditator.
Then one lovely day all went to shit (excuse my french) and I totally lost my Ultra Concentration, my breath was gone and I started to PANIC! I tried everything but failed utterly and I was this Not-so-mighty meditator any longer and I had NO CLUE what was going on and no one could tell me anything about it.
So I continued to practice Shamatha anyway and could find the breath at times but there was so much negativity in me I just could not understand what happened with all that joyful bliss I had before. And I was so good at this joyful bliss
Then one internet friend who practiced Zen told me about DhO and Ingrams book MCTB. It was the first edition in 2011. Read through it and found where I was but I simply could not get used to that dry uncool noting vipassana so I resumed Shamatha and this led to an eraly EQ I assume because I REALLY LIKED IT and wanted to keep it, to stay in that state as it was sooo lovely compared to DN crap.
This of course led right back to RE-observation with vengance and I rolled up the mat never to return to meditation again ... this was in 2012 october I think.
... lots of bleedthrough during several years of no practice ... many people hurt ... me hurt ... lost ... more lost ...
start of last year got sick and tired of it all and realised there is no way back to life as I knew it before the meditation and the ONLY WAY is going back to practice, forward! After watching Kenneth Folks freestyle noting videos I decided I try that as noting is also what Ingram describes but I felt really like shit and needed somthing that is very efficient in cutting down those hindrances very fast. Noting Aloud as suggested by Kenneth Folk did exactly that and more. EDIT; I forgot to mention that Kenneth was kind enough to work with me over skype for 5-6 months, providing guidance.
During my old Shamatha there would always be periods of some daydreaming, even if about the practice it self but the mindfulness continuity was not as constant as in Noting Aloud. I am a very visual and audible personality (art painter and musician) so for me having eyes open and hearing my voice constanly which was also conected with the actual object observed was really a game changer.
Now I can say ; I did really sit for 45 minutes and practiced. During shamatha days I could sit for longer periods but not sure I was always awake. I would be rather in some joy/bliss chiling out or some narrative about the practice itselfbut also mindful of course.
Thats about it. I hope I gave you the answer you hoped for.
I pracitced Shamatha as Calm-abiding, calming the body with each in and outbreath, whole body breathing rather than only focus on one spot. At that time I knew NOTHING about the 16 stages of insight.
My practice started as usually they start; not that easy to sit, lots of pain, lots of stiffness, lots or body jerks until one day (6 months into the practice) "my" Mind literally fell off far far into the background still rumbling and mumbling but very far away, and what was Here in this moment was clear open awareness in the body with its sensations. After that meditaion wnt on fire. I thought this thing is the best thing in the world and EVERYONE should do it!
This period of easy and long daily meditations went on for a quiet a bit and I felt like a Mighty meditator.
Then one lovely day all went to shit (excuse my french) and I totally lost my Ultra Concentration, my breath was gone and I started to PANIC! I tried everything but failed utterly and I was this Not-so-mighty meditator any longer and I had NO CLUE what was going on and no one could tell me anything about it.
So I continued to practice Shamatha anyway and could find the breath at times but there was so much negativity in me I just could not understand what happened with all that joyful bliss I had before. And I was so good at this joyful bliss
Then one internet friend who practiced Zen told me about DhO and Ingrams book MCTB. It was the first edition in 2011. Read through it and found where I was but I simply could not get used to that dry uncool noting vipassana so I resumed Shamatha and this led to an eraly EQ I assume because I REALLY LIKED IT and wanted to keep it, to stay in that state as it was sooo lovely compared to DN crap.
This of course led right back to RE-observation with vengance and I rolled up the mat never to return to meditation again ... this was in 2012 october I think.
... lots of bleedthrough during several years of no practice ... many people hurt ... me hurt ... lost ... more lost ...
start of last year got sick and tired of it all and realised there is no way back to life as I knew it before the meditation and the ONLY WAY is going back to practice, forward! After watching Kenneth Folks freestyle noting videos I decided I try that as noting is also what Ingram describes but I felt really like shit and needed somthing that is very efficient in cutting down those hindrances very fast. Noting Aloud as suggested by Kenneth Folk did exactly that and more. EDIT; I forgot to mention that Kenneth was kind enough to work with me over skype for 5-6 months, providing guidance.
During my old Shamatha there would always be periods of some daydreaming, even if about the practice it self but the mindfulness continuity was not as constant as in Noting Aloud. I am a very visual and audible personality (art painter and musician) so for me having eyes open and hearing my voice constanly which was also conected with the actual object observed was really a game changer.
Now I can say ; I did really sit for 45 minutes and practiced. During shamatha days I could sit for longer periods but not sure I was always awake. I would be rather in some joy/bliss chiling out or some narrative about the practice itselfbut also mindful of course.
Thats about it. I hope I gave you the answer you hoped for.
Papa Che Dusko:
Then one lovely day all went to shit (excuse my french) and I totally lost my Ultra Concentration, my breath was gone and I started to PANIC! I tried everything but failed utterly and I was this Not-so-mighty meditator any longer and I had NO CLUE what was going on and no one could tell me anything about it.
So I continued to practice Shamatha anyway and could find the breath at times but there was so much negativity in me I just could not understand what happened with all that joyful bliss I had before. And I was so good at this joyful bliss
Then one internet friend who practiced Zen told me about DhO and Ingrams book MCTB. It was the first edition in 2011. Read through it and found where I was but I simply could not get used to that dry uncool noting vipassana so I resumed Shamatha and this led to an eraly EQ I assume because I REALLY LIKED IT and wanted to keep it, to stay in that state as it was sooo lovely compared to DN crap.
This of course led right back to RE-observation with vengance and I rolled up the mat never to return to meditation again ... this was in 2012 october I think.
... lots of bleedthrough during several years of no practice ... many people hurt ... me hurt ... lost ... more lost ...
start of last year got sick and tired of it all and realised there is no way back to life as I knew it before the meditation and the ONLY WAY is going back to practice, forward! After watching Kenneth Folks freestyle noting videos I decided I try that as noting is also what Ingram describes but I felt really like shit and needed somthing that is very efficient in cutting down those hindrances very fast. Noting Aloud as suggested by Kenneth Folk did exactly that and more. EDIT; I forgot to mention that Kenneth was kind enough to work with me over skype for 5-6 months, providing guidance.
Funny you ask this 
... I havent really thought about it ... let me see ...
... it seems a bit like another life. Like a memory. There is compassion for all those going through such experience. There is wish to be of service to those who walk this path. There is gratefulness to those who teach this Dhamma.
... and one word keeps popping up constantly so I will not exclude it; ACCEPTANCE.
I'm sincere.
... I havent really thought about it ... let me see ...... it seems a bit like another life. Like a memory. There is compassion for all those going through such experience. There is wish to be of service to those who walk this path. There is gratefulness to those who teach this Dhamma.
... and one word keeps popping up constantly so I will not exclude it; ACCEPTANCE.
I'm sincere.
Papa Che Dusko:
Funny you ask this ... I havent really thought about it ... let me see ...
... it seems a bit like another life. Like a memory. There is compassion for all those going through such experience. There is wish to be of service to those who walk this path. There is gratefulness to those who teach this Dhamma.
... and one word keeps popping up constantly so I will not exclude it; ACCEPTANCE.
I'm sincere.
... I havent really thought about it ... let me see ...... it seems a bit like another life. Like a memory. There is compassion for all those going through such experience. There is wish to be of service to those who walk this path. There is gratefulness to those who teach this Dhamma.
... and one word keeps popping up constantly so I will not exclude it; ACCEPTANCE.
I'm sincere.
Chris said, answering his own question on what meditative practice allows us to bring to this world wide crisis: patience, and acceptance. Are there really two of you?
Thanks, Papa-ji.
Love the experice when the persception of whole body either starts to shrink or get larger. Today while sitting it was shrinking. Only a few days ago it was getting larger (I like that as I feel like a Super-man graahhh).
Migraine-like headache and neck stifness and throat sorness and lower back pain remain all day. Got to realise, during the sit, that ALL these are on the LEFT side! Even the high pitch frequency was stronger on the left side.
Went for a 3km jogging after the sit (last time I did that was ... a few years ago
)
Migraine-like headache and neck stifness and throat sorness and lower back pain remain all day. Got to realise, during the sit, that ALL these are on the LEFT side! Even the high pitch frequency was stronger on the left side.
Went for a 3km jogging after the sit (last time I did that was ... a few years ago
)
45er sit today.
@Steph S 's avatar popped up in the image space a few times and it felt pleasant not sure what that means
First half of session was calm, slow but deep noting and soaking into the object, then last half went into a more confused jerky, not-behaving attention or urge to be mindful of somthing fully, yet something else would pop up in the meantime and there would be this "hit and miss" feeling which was rather unpleasant. Sense of someone trying to do it and failing utterly.
2nd half was covered in scenarios and images about some stuff from past or this forum. Also some annoyance with the repetitive patterns to be observed (comparison from previous sits and even the sits from last year as Im using the same location).
Some neck stiffness, sore throatness, preassure on the left side of the head, bubbling vibrations in hands and arms itch here and there. 2 body jerks (arms and neck).
@Steph S 's avatar popped up in the image space a few times and it felt pleasant
not sure what that means First half of session was calm, slow but deep noting and soaking into the object, then last half went into a more confused jerky, not-behaving attention or urge to be mindful of somthing fully, yet something else would pop up in the meantime and there would be this "hit and miss" feeling which was rather unpleasant. Sense of someone trying to do it and failing utterly.
2nd half was covered in scenarios and images about some stuff from past or this forum. Also some annoyance with the repetitive patterns to be observed (comparison from previous sits and even the sits from last year as Im using the same location).
Some neck stiffness, sore throatness, preassure on the left side of the head, bubbling vibrations in hands and arms itch here and there. 2 body jerks (arms and neck).
I honestly have no clue what if anything is balancing out I do assume strongly these are all symptoms of the early insight stages.
They suck all right but that's the name of this Vipassana game Sweet'n'Sour ball of rice, then you get a shot of Tequila and Ars kicking, then a desert a flat pancake with fragments of all that tequila puking on top of it and the lights out
Honestly I try not to ponder anymore what is happening for what reason. It's happening, so far I know, and I'm not moving away from the point of Thisness. At least while I practice. Off cushion I do allow attention to freely soar the vast sky of awareness like a white beautiful pidgeon ready to drop a large poo on top of the one admiring it! (this one is for Tim FF)
I do assume strongly these are all symptoms of the early insight stages. They suck all right
but that's the name of this Vipassana game Sweet'n'Sour ball of rice, then you get a shot of Tequila and Ars kicking, then a desert a flat pancake with fragments of all that tequila puking on top of it and the lights out Honestly I try not to ponder anymore what is happening for what reason. It's happening, so far I know, and I'm not moving away from the point of Thisness. At least while I practice. Off cushion I do allow attention to freely soar the vast sky of awareness like a white beautiful pidgeon ready to drop a large poo on top of the one admiring it!
(this one is for Tim FF)
1% is fine damn it!
"giving you experiential marks for 1 and 2, and i'll bet you're done plenty in third gear in other vehicles, on other courses and roads."
Interesting what you say here. I never thought of this but during my Ki-breathing time and later Shamatha I might have touched on some 3rd Gear too, in a more experiential way. During the Ki-breathing I did get all the way to 5th Samatha Jhana of Infinite Space but had no knowledge about Jhanas. I only knew it felt utterly safe. I've never experienced so much safety as in that state. Nothing bad could happen in that vast space and that tiny sense of self in the center of it all was the one experiencing this. This could have been part of that 3rd Gear but I had no knowledge of Vipassana/Investigation then.
Actually it looks more like 2nd Gear to investigate that tiny sense of self in that Infinite Space. Dunno. Matters not. All I really have is what is right here.
My Path is a jerky one. Jumping to some higher states then dropping down into dark deep shit It's an upside down Path! It is what it is.
"giving you experiential marks for 1 and 2, and i'll bet you're done plenty in third gear in other vehicles, on other courses and roads."
Interesting what you say here. I never thought of this but during my Ki-breathing time and later Shamatha I might have touched on some 3rd Gear too, in a more experiential way. During the Ki-breathing I did get all the way to 5th Samatha Jhana of Infinite Space but had no knowledge about Jhanas. I only knew it felt utterly safe. I've never experienced so much safety as in that state. Nothing bad could happen in that vast space and that tiny sense of self in the center of it all was the one experiencing this. This could have been part of that 3rd Gear but I had no knowledge of Vipassana/Investigation then.
Actually it looks more like 2nd Gear to investigate that tiny sense of self in that Infinite Space. Dunno. Matters not. All I really have is what is right here.
My Path is a jerky one. Jumping to some higher states then dropping down into dark deep shit
It's an upside down Path! It is what it is.
Papa Che Dusko:
1% is fine damn it!
My Path is a jerky one. Jumping to some higher states then dropping down into dark deep shit
It's an upside down Path! It is what it is.
It's a beautiful, beautiful ride, and your jerky path in all its horrific acrobatics is a joy to behold.
love, t
Not sure if this is what Ingram calls "Jerkiness" as it really can feel that way because the sensation-flow is going on and yet image impressions seem like frozen frames which have no organic feel to them. Imagine a Ballerina dancing with a Robot.
But damn, man, that IS good poetry.
love, tim
Poetry is overrated! See no difference beween my ars and mind expressing them selves!
They are both product of my imagination. Why oh why would I favor one over the other?
They are both product of my imagination. Why oh why would I favor one over the other?
that's the man i know and love! you scared me for a second there. Put your guitar in the mix and you'd have had a song.
Ah yes. While my guitar gently weeps.
My amp is cabinet-less at the moment after selling some gear. The new cabinet shall arrive this Tuesday together with a tube screamer style overdrive pedal Excited to plug my axe into it and hit that first chord and let it ring out!
Hunting for that perfect tone!
My amp is cabinet-less at the moment after selling some gear. The new cabinet shall arrive this Tuesday together with a tube screamer style overdrive pedal
Excited to plug my axe into it and hit that first chord and let it ring out!Hunting for that perfect tone!
Papa Che Dusko:
Ah yes. While my guitar gently weeps.
My amp is cabinet-less at the moment after selling some gear. The new cabinet shall arrive this Tuesday together with a tube screamer style overdrive pedal Excited to plug my axe into it and hit that first chord and let it ring out!
Hunting for that perfect tone!
My amp is cabinet-less at the moment after selling some gear. The new cabinet shall arrive this Tuesday together with a tube screamer style overdrive pedal
Excited to plug my axe into it and hit that first chord and let it ring out!Hunting for that perfect tone!
Tim Farrington:
that's the man i know and love! you scared me for a second there. Put your guitar in the mix and you'd have had a song.
https://youtu.be/ATpYIMtMPXU
Sat for 45 minutes. Freestyle noting aloud (eyes open) started with a normal pace and "there is ..." phrase before labeling the noted object.
Absorption was there and then gone and back again a few times. There was this murk / darkness in the seen and at some stage there was a round cloud in the middle of the seen surrounding the spot I was staring at.
The eyesight blip was present throughout and had a different movement this time. It's as it was moving from outside in and more towards the right eye. This was caused some curiosity.
Restlessness was perceived several times in form of body numbness followed by an urge to get up and image impressions of my smart phone (tuner). This wanisged after a few noting labels. This restlessness usually stops very fast and there is just that lingering image impression of it there. Then even that vanished just to be replaced by something else (hearing, itching, anything really).
The lower back pain did arise on the right side but would vanish as soon i would zoom in to investigate it. And if I kept the focus there it would not arise.
Sitting posture was obvious throughout and so was the short In-breathing and long out-breathing.
Hands had that "contained" vibration again. I checked if there was some tension in the muscles there but both hands were relaxed and yet felt as if some tebsion was there.
I could perceive more vibrations in the feet and legs today. Actually could feel vibrations on almost the entire body.
Generally this session had a unpleasant feeling tone. Noting voice had a tone as if in anguish but accepting it all. Very low and humble. It was certainly not a proud hip hooray look at me shooting these aliens like a cowboy
Sitting time will remain 45 mins once a day as there is no feel to increase this for now.
EDIT; in case I didn't mention body jerks did arise afte maybe 5 or 10 minutes into the practice and remained until the end. They were not so unpleasant this time.
Absorption was there and then gone and back again a few times. There was this murk / darkness in the seen and at some stage there was a round cloud in the middle of the seen surrounding the spot I was staring at.
The eyesight blip was present throughout and had a different movement this time. It's as it was moving from outside in and more towards the right eye. This was caused some curiosity.
Restlessness was perceived several times in form of body numbness followed by an urge to get up and image impressions of my smart phone (tuner). This wanisged after a few noting labels. This restlessness usually stops very fast and there is just that lingering image impression of it there. Then even that vanished just to be replaced by something else (hearing, itching, anything really).
The lower back pain did arise on the right side but would vanish as soon i would zoom in to investigate it. And if I kept the focus there it would not arise.
Sitting posture was obvious throughout and so was the short In-breathing and long out-breathing.
Hands had that "contained" vibration again. I checked if there was some tension in the muscles there but both hands were relaxed and yet felt as if some tebsion was there.
I could perceive more vibrations in the feet and legs today. Actually could feel vibrations on almost the entire body.
Generally this session had a unpleasant feeling tone. Noting voice had a tone as if in anguish but accepting it all. Very low and humble. It was certainly not a proud hip hooray look at me shooting these aliens like a cowboy
Sitting time will remain 45 mins once a day as there is no feel to increase this for now.
EDIT; in case I didn't mention body jerks did arise afte maybe 5 or 10 minutes into the practice and remained until the end. They were not so unpleasant this time.
Off the cushion;
emotional reactivity, heavy feelings, lots of presence in the eyes/behind the eyes almost absorption-like but more into selfing-thoughts-feelings rather than Jhana-like. Im remembering to pay mindfulness to the nose (periferal vision) and commiting to the human realm. Some kind of preassure on the ears and jaws. Soreness in the throat. Strong stiffness in the neck. Tensed energy in the arms and tingling in the legs/feet. General restlessness and itching/crawling antsy-vibration under the skin.
Will try and sit at least twice today as today I have more time for myself. I find that the increased sense of suffering increases the desire for sitting practice.
Keep watching! Armies of Mara are shooting countless arrows! Turn them into falling petals! Keep watching! Watch Forrest watch!
emotional reactivity, heavy feelings, lots of presence in the eyes/behind the eyes almost absorption-like but more into selfing-thoughts-feelings rather than Jhana-like. Im remembering to pay mindfulness to the nose (periferal vision) and commiting to the human realm. Some kind of preassure on the ears and jaws. Soreness in the throat. Strong stiffness in the neck. Tensed energy in the arms and tingling in the legs/feet. General restlessness and itching/crawling antsy-vibration under the skin.
Will try and sit at least twice today as today I have more time for myself. I find that the increased sense of suffering increases the desire for sitting practice.
Keep watching! Armies of Mara are shooting countless arrows! Turn them into falling petals! Keep watching! Watch Forrest watch!
Papa Che Dusko:
Off the cushion;
emotional reactivity, heavy feelings, lots of presence in the eyes/behind the eyes almost absorption-like but more into selfing-thoughts-feelings rather than Jhana-like. Im remembering to pay mindfulness to the nose (periferal vision) and commiting to the human realm. Some kind of preassure on the ears and jaws. Soreness in the throat. Strong stiffness in the neck. Tensed energy in the arms and tingling in the legs/feet. General restlessness and itching/crawling antsy-vibration under the skin.
Will try and sit at least twice today as today I have more time for myself.
emotional reactivity, heavy feelings, lots of presence in the eyes/behind the eyes almost absorption-like but more into selfing-thoughts-feelings rather than Jhana-like. Im remembering to pay mindfulness to the nose (periferal vision) and commiting to the human realm. Some kind of preassure on the ears and jaws. Soreness in the throat. Strong stiffness in the neck. Tensed energy in the arms and tingling in the legs/feet. General restlessness and itching/crawling antsy-vibration under the skin.
Will try and sit at least twice today as today I have more time for myself.
amen
I find that the increased sense of suffering increases the desire for sitting practice.
amen
Keep watching! Armies of Mara are shooting countless arrows! Turn them into falling petals! Keep watching! Watch Forrest watch!
I'm WATCHING!!!!! Petals everywhere, a blizzard of petals.
Still watching!
love, tim
Papa Che Dusko:
Sat a 45er.
Kind of a silent witness of that wild bouncing attention from object to object. It was more about the non controlable bouncing attention rather than the objects themselves it seems. A question "who is experiencing this?" also arouse a few times. No answer though.
Kind of a silent witness of that wild bouncing attention from object to object. It was more about the non controlable bouncing attention rather than the objects themselves it seems. A question "who is experiencing this?" also arouse a few times. No answer though.
Damn it, man, we come here for answers!
Beautiful video, Che. Tough, tough, heartbreaking, but i think a lot of people will find this useful in their own tough spots.
I need a pure no nonsense heart emoji here.
love, t
I need a pure no nonsense heart emoji here.love, t
Yes. We don't really meditate to feel "better" or be "relaxed" or "blissful" but to see stuff as Anicca, Annata and Dukkha.
Some sits are like this others like that.
This one was NOTHING in comparison with my last years Re-observation
Some sits are like this others like that.
This one was NOTHING in comparison with my last years Re-observation
Just to add as my statement above is a bit off really. Nothing wrong with doing practices so to calm, relax, feel blissfull.
What I was saying is that these sits (as off the cushion too) are also subject to Impermanence, they change. We can often say "I had a shitty sit, what a lousy meditaion" or "I had a great sit, boy was this joyful". All these are just experiences subject to change. Seeing Anicca not leaving anything unchanged/solid is developing dispassion for all experiences and accepting them for what they are and be OK WITH IT.
This really can aid in really shitty situations (or even on really cool ones) as one can be assured it will change "its always darkest before the dawn" or "who flies high falls low"
What I was saying is that these sits (as off the cushion too) are also subject to Impermanence, they change. We can often say "I had a shitty sit, what a lousy meditaion" or "I had a great sit, boy was this joyful". All these are just experiences subject to change. Seeing Anicca not leaving anything unchanged/solid is developing dispassion for all experiences and accepting them for what they are and be OK WITH IT.
This really can aid in really shitty situations (or even on really cool ones) as one can be assured it will change "its always darkest before the dawn" or "who flies high falls low"
Sat another 45er. Calm session, very grounded in the heaviness of the gravity pulling the ars into chair. Sensations in legs are hardly noticable, must give it a good focus to pluck a few vibrations in the toes. There was this scanning of the legs a few time as a curious wonder. Did this as palms are really vivid in all its soft pins and needles pleasant vibrations. Mindfulness moving nicely along the attention doing its thing, bounce bounce like a little bee from one flower to the next.
At one stage I could see COLOR in the hearing of the ear frequency. The space between the ears where the noise seem to take place there was cream like colored space with some sort of combs, not like wax comb but more entagled hexa shapes in a very organic cave that was light cream This was in the image space (image ipression while hearing the high pitch freq).
Noting Aloud turned into a mantra-like singing at some stage and I just let it go that way and discovered that this caused some fine pleasant feeling of gladness and concentartion improved too. After the sit I thought of those who prefer Mantra recitations and how this noting aloud can be used with a singing voice and feel all that vibration in the throat and head and chest rom singing, and the rest that is being noted.
Decided to make a short demo vid and now that I see it the Mantra-like singing is not as evident as it was inside my head I really felt as there was more singing to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKZkvLkG-EI
At one stage I could see COLOR in the hearing of the ear frequency. The space between the ears where the noise seem to take place there was cream like colored space with some sort of combs, not like wax comb but more entagled hexa shapes in a very organic cave that was light cream This was in the image space (image ipression while hearing the high pitch freq).
Noting Aloud turned into a mantra-like singing at some stage and I just let it go that way and discovered that this caused some fine pleasant feeling of gladness and concentartion improved too. After the sit I thought of those who prefer Mantra recitations and how this noting aloud can be used with a singing voice and feel all that vibration in the throat and head and chest rom singing, and the rest that is being noted.
Decided to make a short demo vid and now that I see it the Mantra-like singing is not as evident as it was inside my head
I really felt as there was more singing to it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKZkvLkG-EI
Dont really feel like updating this log of mine today ah that annoying Jhana afterglow (aka hangover).
Sat a 45er.
Started with Noting Aloud and it went rather moderate, no effort needed there was just clarity, tap, tap, tap, one after the other they arise and pass away. Was able to notice slight shake (as when changing slide show picture, snap, new picture but you could see that snap for just a tiny part fo the second) in eye sight image which had something to do with the two unknown events (pulses or dips) of the outbreath ... then after maybe 5 minutes all energy kind of sank down and there was interest in the pleasant warmth of the hands cupped together, the soft, cushion like warmth, very fine velvety vibratons, felt really great and cozy. The noting voice was too loud so there was natural decrease in volume and I threw away the plectrum and continued to play finger style, with a much softer attack of the skin against the strings, so to hear all the dynamics of the arising and passing notes of the phenomenal experience.
I let go into this absorbed state with soft noting still going on but very much laid back.
Then after I have noticed those proto-thoughts that @agnostic mentioned but after catching them a few times realised they were proto-images that never formed fully. As I was dropping into Dissolution (maybe I should really call it 3rd Jhana) and all room got dark/black and white (eyes open, not much blinking this time) and center started vanishing I was more leaning towards thinking those proto-images were just the vanishing aspect rather than images not developing into arising. So these proto-thoughts @agnostic mentioned may be vanishing thoughts as one can only see the tail of it and not the whole thought as its already gone when we notice it. Dunno, just somthing I observed and could not have anything to do with those real proto-thoughts.
During the absorbtion there were some ponderings in form of a guilt for not just plowing through this mind-stuff with full blown Noting Aloud instead of this Jhana stuff but I just observed that guilt and resistance and noted them as thinking and unpleasant as there would be some hardness forming in the upper belly/solar plexsus. Almost like hunger pain, Hungry Ghosts realm maybe.
During the absorbtion the silent noting was taking place and in that laid back position I played a bit with "in seeing there is only the seen, refering back to no one". I took this literally! Ok! Word for word and this is what I saw;
Seeing (action of seeing, awareness of the sense door, that space around the eyes), the Seen (the object, leading to coprehanding it) and then when I waited to see to whom does this refer back to ... there was just this "waiting" in which moment I would also notice some other body sensations not related to the seeing game. In that "waiting" there was this sense of attention coming back to the eye space as there seems to be the point off that consciousness space.
After a while I expanded this "meassuring" of the distance between noted objects and the sense where this center might be it would always return to the eye space. The ear frequency is always in the center of the head (might be a bit to left and right also) but a bit down and further back from that center that seems in the eyes (is this the eye sense consciousness?). The crawly vibration in the skull would be above or to the side or at the back of that conscious knowing, again coming back to the eye space.
Off cushion there was some hangover and some agitation.
ah that annoying Jhana afterglow (aka hangover). Sat a 45er.
Started with Noting Aloud and it went rather moderate, no effort needed there was just clarity, tap, tap, tap, one after the other they arise and pass away. Was able to notice slight shake (as when changing slide show picture, snap, new picture but you could see that snap for just a tiny part fo the second) in eye sight image which had something to do with the two unknown events (pulses or dips) of the outbreath ... then after maybe 5 minutes all energy kind of sank down and there was interest in the pleasant warmth of the hands cupped together, the soft, cushion like warmth, very fine velvety vibratons, felt really great and cozy. The noting voice was too loud so there was natural decrease in volume and I threw away the plectrum and continued to play finger style, with a much softer attack of the skin against the strings, so to hear all the dynamics of the arising and passing notes of the phenomenal experience.
I let go into this absorbed state with soft noting still going on but very much laid back.
Then after I have noticed those proto-thoughts that @agnostic mentioned but after catching them a few times realised they were proto-images that never formed fully. As I was dropping into Dissolution (maybe I should really call it 3rd Jhana) and all room got dark/black and white (eyes open, not much blinking this time) and center started vanishing I was more leaning towards thinking those proto-images were just the vanishing aspect rather than images not developing into arising. So these proto-thoughts @agnostic mentioned may be vanishing thoughts as one can only see the tail of it and not the whole thought as its already gone when we notice it. Dunno, just somthing I observed and could not have anything to do with those real proto-thoughts.
During the absorbtion there were some ponderings in form of a guilt for not just plowing through this mind-stuff with full blown Noting Aloud instead of this Jhana stuff but I just observed that guilt and resistance and noted them as thinking and unpleasant as there would be some hardness forming in the upper belly/solar plexsus. Almost like hunger pain, Hungry Ghosts realm maybe.
During the absorbtion the silent noting was taking place and in that laid back position I played a bit with "in seeing there is only the seen, refering back to no one". I took this literally!
Ok! Word for word and this is what I saw;Seeing (action of seeing, awareness of the sense door, that space around the eyes), the Seen (the object, leading to coprehanding it) and then when I waited to see to whom does this refer back to ... there was just this "waiting" in which moment I would also notice some other body sensations not related to the seeing game. In that "waiting" there was this sense of attention coming back to the eye space as there seems to be the point off that consciousness space.
After a while I expanded this "meassuring" of the distance between noted objects and the sense where this center might be it would always return to the eye space. The ear frequency is always in the center of the head (might be a bit to left and right also) but a bit down and further back from that center that seems in the eyes (is this the eye sense consciousness?). The crawly vibration in the skull would be above or to the side or at the back of that conscious knowing, again coming back to the eye space.
Off cushion there was some hangover and some agitation.
Nice Yeah I rememebr when I first look at it and thought "gawd no, not this uncool chatter" but lemme tell you if you havent tried it you really dont get to know it.
About the mental images tho I have plenty in form of ANTICIPATION about something or even when I HEAR somthing like a bird chirping and there is this image of a bird on a tree or our chimney (of which I cant see any of). I hear a crackling noise and there is this ASSUMPTION that its a RAT (image of a rat in some corner of this room I meditate in ... we live in a counrty side and rats and mice are normal thing here if you keep your doors open for too long).
I even experienced recently Image of the room I look at MERGING in the mind with an image of an ANTICIPATION I think it was but certainly a mind image. Well both of these images ARE in FACT in the MIND Right? I mean this room I look at is percieved in the brain and not in the eye or worse outside of the eye
I think its a very engaging weapon this Noting Aloud is and keeps one really on the toes without laps in mindfulness which I think is of more importance at some stages than going too deep into each sensation (which is also needed at some other stages).
But its fun stuff allright! Glad you are enjoying it! I seem to be more sinking down (or is it up) into Jhana stuff as of late for some reason. All good.
Yeah I rememebr when I first look at it and thought "gawd no, not this uncool chatter" but lemme tell you if you havent tried it you really dont get to know it. About the mental images tho
I have plenty in form of ANTICIPATION about something or even when I HEAR somthing like a bird chirping and there is this image of a bird on a tree or our chimney (of which I cant see any of). I hear a crackling noise and there is this ASSUMPTION that its a RAT (image of a rat in some corner of this room I meditate in ... we live in a counrty side and rats and mice are normal thing here if you keep your doors open for too long).I even experienced recently Image of the room I look at MERGING in the mind with an image of an ANTICIPATION I think it was but certainly a mind image. Well
both of these images ARE in FACT in the MIND Right? I mean this room I look at is percieved in the brain and not in the eye or worse outside of the eye I think its a very engaging weapon this Noting Aloud is and keeps one really on the toes without laps in mindfulness which I think is of more importance at some stages than going too deep into each sensation (which is also needed at some other stages).
But its fun stuff allright! Glad you are enjoying it! I seem to be more sinking down (or is it up) into Jhana stuff as of late for some reason. All good.
Papa Che Dusko:
Nice Yeah I rememebr when I first look at it and thought "gawd no, not this uncool chatter" but lemme tell you if you havent tried it you really dont get to know it.
About the mental images tho I have plenty in form of ANTICIPATION about something or even when I HEAR somthing like a bird chirping and there is this image of a bird on a tree or our chimney (of which I cant see any of). I hear a crackling noise and there is this ASSUMPTION that its a RAT (image of a rat in some corner of this room I meditate in ... we live in a counrty side and rats and mice are normal thing here if you keep your doors open for too long).
I even experienced recently Image of the room I look at MERGING in the mind with an image of an ANTICIPATION I think it was but certainly a mind image. Well both of these images ARE in FACT in the MIND Right? I mean this room I look at is percieved in the brain and not in the eye or worse outside of the eye
Yeah I rememebr when I first look at it and thought "gawd no, not this uncool chatter" but lemme tell you if you havent tried it you really dont get to know it. About the mental images tho
I have plenty in form of ANTICIPATION about something or even when I HEAR somthing like a bird chirping and there is this image of a bird on a tree or our chimney (of which I cant see any of). I hear a crackling noise and there is this ASSUMPTION that its a RAT (image of a rat in some corner of this room I meditate in ... we live in a counrty side and rats and mice are normal thing here if you keep your doors open for too long).I even experienced recently Image of the room I look at MERGING in the mind with an image of an ANTICIPATION I think it was but certainly a mind image. Well
both of these images ARE in FACT in the MIND Right? I mean this room I look at is percieved in the brain and not in the eye or worse outside of the eye Yea, these little phantom images are a trip. Somehow phantom or ghost seems appropriate in how I think about them. They're wispy, almost translucent, really quick, and have this quality of "wait was that an image, did that really just happen?" I've sussed out that they're a reaction and way of trying to attach to or grasp what just happened. Like, there's a bare sound. Feeling tone. Mental image of what the sound was as a reaction to that.
Yes, friend, you're allowed to have fun in jhana and it doesn't mean you're slacking. I'm not going to go dig up a bunch of quotes or suttas on it, but they're around and they say jhana cultivates wholesome mind states. It helps cultivate equanimity and smooths things out. Going from 1st jhana up to 8th, you can see how the mind, and other sensations, get more subtle and refined. You can see the shift from coarse to ultra fine as you go up, until in 8th there's nothing to really investigate cuz it's too incomprehensible. This is good. When I say it smooth things out, this is what I'm talking about. It makes it easier to perceive the subtle strata of mind. The layer of mind that all the coarser, louder parts of mind are drowning out. When things get more still in the formless jhanas, you can really cut through and investigate just how subtle shit gets. You can use it as an opportunity to investigate things that seem still and solid. You suddenly have access to all the background processing that you don't normally perceive.
Something that's also super helpful is, up to 7th jhana, you can still also perceive the subtle dissatisfaction that happens all along the whole way. The arc pushes on naturally. Depending on your concentration level that particular day, it may take longer or shorter to get up the arc. When it's taking longer, there can be that nagging feeling of this could be finer, this could be more better. Or when it goes really fast it could be, this is great, I wish I could stay here longer. Even up in the formless realms I have noticed this dissatisfaction tension go back and forth between this is great and this could be better. When a bunch of other mind noise is out of the way, you can see this push-pull of craving and aversion really clearly.
Aside from all that, it's also totally okay to hang out in jhana just because it's fun. I promise every sit doesn't have to be the most productive thing ever. Enjoy the fruits of your labor once in a while and play with all the fancy mind tricks that have developed. See how pliant the mind can get. You're seasoned enough that I sincerely doubt you're going to fall off the deep end and be caught up in those golden chains, never wanting to return to vipassana again. You've seen enough in your investigations that I don't think the mind will let this happen. As shargrol told me once recently, trust the mind. The path pushes itself onward and even though it seems like you might get stuck at times, trust the process and that it will keep you on track.
Something that's also super helpful is, up to 7th jhana, you can still also perceive the subtle dissatisfaction that happens all along the whole way. The arc pushes on naturally. Depending on your concentration level that particular day, it may take longer or shorter to get up the arc. When it's taking longer, there can be that nagging feeling of this could be finer, this could be more better. Or when it goes really fast it could be, this is great, I wish I could stay here longer. Even up in the formless realms I have noticed this dissatisfaction tension go back and forth between this is great and this could be better. When a bunch of other mind noise is out of the way, you can see this push-pull of craving and aversion really clearly.
Aside from all that, it's also totally okay to hang out in jhana just because it's fun. I promise every sit doesn't have to be the most productive thing ever. Enjoy the fruits of your labor once in a while and play with all the fancy mind tricks that have developed. See how pliant the mind can get. You're seasoned enough that I sincerely doubt you're going to fall off the deep end and be caught up in those golden chains, never wanting to return to vipassana again. You've seen enough in your investigations that I don't think the mind will let this happen. As shargrol told me once recently, trust the mind. The path pushes itself onward and even though it seems like you might get stuck at times, trust the process and that it will keep you on track.
It's terrible I know miss one sit here, one there and off you get flushed down the eternal labyrinths of ignorance.
I will slap my self twice or trice today and drag my sorry ars back to the true altar of sacrifice; my meditation chair.
miss one sit here, one there and off you get flushed down the eternal labyrinths of ignorance.I will slap my self twice or trice today and drag my sorry ars back to the true altar of sacrifice; my meditation chair.
Papa Che Dusko:
It's terrible I know miss one sit here, one there and off you get flushed down the eternal labyrinths of ignorance.
I will slap my self twice or trice today and drag my sorry ars back to the true altar of sacrifice; my meditation chair.
miss one sit here, one there and off you get flushed down the eternal labyrinths of ignorance.I will slap my self twice or trice today and drag my sorry ars back to the true altar of sacrifice; my meditation chair.
This self-mortification and abuse must cease, my beloved friend. The true altar of sacrifice is the heart, and no one's is more present everywhere, in every thing, than yours.
fer fooking Krist's sake, i was just yanking your chain. I thought you knew better. Play your fucking guitar, and post some good music in the Bar.
(edit)
" I knew better" ha! I'm dumbest dumb person of the bunch! Those who heel my advice might be actually more dumb than me
As for music; I've sold my tube amp yesterday so I'm in the market spending countless hours in researching gear demos in hope to find that one which will satisfy the thirst of my yearning heart
Just an off the cushion note;
strong stiff pain in the shoulder blade area and couch potato kind of attitude. Diffused attention. Vibrations in the skull/brain as if an invincible hand is massaging the brain with its soft fingers.
I'm dumbest dumb person of the bunch! Those who heel my advice might be actually more dumb than me As for music; I've sold my tube amp yesterday so I'm in the market spending countless hours in researching gear demos in hope to find that one which will satisfy the thirst of my yearning heart
Just an off the cushion note;
strong stiff pain in the shoulder blade area and couch potato kind of attitude. Diffused attention. Vibrations in the skull/brain as if an invincible hand is massaging the brain with its soft fingers.
Papa Che Dusko:
" I knew better" ha! I'm dumbest dumb person of the bunch! Those who heel my advice might be actually more dumb than me
I'm dumbest dumb person of the bunch! Those who heel my advice might be actually more dumb than me i know, i know, that's your story and you're sticking to it. Fine, i've got your six all the way. But it breaks my heart sometimes, to see you chained down by having to act stupider than you are.
(edit) i mean, i get it. the tender humble gentle offerer of practice advice is my vipassana touchstone, and the trouble you took to make those crucial videos with me in my will always bring tears of gratitude to my eyes. And we know that the naked intensity of your actual practice "self" would scare away all but the demons of hell. So it's skillful means, upaya, state of the art. I won't undercut that. I'm just saying, i love it when you loosen up and are just that musical loving guy you are too.
(edit 2) keeping all my shit in one sack here for easy deletion if it pisses off one or more of your personas.
the thing is, i have learned, a little hard-core vipassana goes a long way with me. It's a specific effect, like my response to cannabis: two hits, and i'm gone for months. Chris was my first toke, you were my second. That's all it took, with me, i'm a lightweight, as all of my friends used to say, looking for a way to make sense of my cannibis-triggered flights. So thanks for the toke, bro. That is some good good shit.
Ok, ok. I will try and keep silent for a while here on DhO wise-guy-wise. Be more of a joke and less of a practice bloke
Still researching if to buy a VOX AC15 amp or the new Fender Player Series Stratocaster? Hm ... ?
Still researching if to buy a VOX AC15 amp or the new Fender Player Series Stratocaster? Hm ... ?
Papa Che Dusko:
Ok, ok. I will try and keep silent for a while here on DhO wise-guy-wise. Be more of a joke and less of a practice bloke
Still researching if to buy a VOX AC15 amp or the new Fender Player Series Stratocaster? Hm ... ?
Still researching if to buy a VOX AC15 amp or the new Fender Player Series Stratocaster? Hm ... ?
don't get me wrong, man. Your practice bloke is state of the art. But it's a hat. the joker and the musician are different hats. Wear each to the appropriate venues, in all cases keeping the occasional loving eye on me, as my hats sometimes blow off, and i throw off the rest of my clothes when i go to chase the hat.
Oh I see
Let me give you a heads up;
When I start rolling my practice and previous glories start to fade into memories , the "I" becomes rather a murky appearance, almost soldier-like, focused on the "bush" not to miss any subtle movements which could go unnoticed.
This "I" (in the mind) can be in form of junky nocked out by the enormous Earth's gravity not being able to move towards words. Hell, I managed to write a long reply to agnostic now just to delete it. Even if I utter words there is this "heaviness" to press them into the world even if this requires touching a touch-screen
But yes, I do read your new log No2 split by the saint of thread-splitting I simply have not much to say as you seem on top of it. God Face and all that lovely stuff I know I know, I will burn in hell for not believing in that One. Maybe one day when you get to Heavens you can find a way to pull me out of Hell?! In case you don't know how to find me follow me on YouTube and press that Like and Bell Icon too
Let me give you a heads up;
When I start rolling my practice and previous glories start to fade into memories , the "I" becomes rather a murky appearance, almost soldier-like, focused on the "bush" not to miss any subtle movements which could go unnoticed.
This "I" (in the mind) can be in form of junky nocked out by the enormous Earth's gravity not being able to move towards words. Hell, I managed to write a long reply to agnostic now just to delete it. Even if I utter words there is this "heaviness" to press them into the world even if this requires touching a touch-screen
But yes, I do read your new log No2 split by the saint of thread-splitting
I simply have not much to say as you seem on top of it. God Face and all that lovely stuff I know I know, I will burn in hell for not believing in that One. Maybe one day when you get to Heavens you can find a way to pull me out of Hell?! In case you don't know how to find me follow me on YouTube and press that Like and Bell Icon too
Papa Che Dusko:
Oh I see
Let me give you a heads up;
I know I know, I will burn in hell for not believing in that One. Maybe one day when you get to Heavens you can find a way to pull me out of Hell?!
Let me give you a heads up;
I know I know, I will burn in hell for not believing in that One. Maybe one day when you get to Heavens you can find a way to pull me out of Hell?!
Fuck it! Being stuck in the mud is the story of my life Dunno which is worse; beeing stuck in the mud while its pouring rain or scorching sun?! I'm actually gone now to sit! Like NOW!
Dunno which is worse; beeing stuck in the mud while its pouring rain or scorching sun?! I'm actually gone now to sit! Like NOW!
For those of you wondering about what this "room turned black and white" means I tried to manipulate a photo to illustrate it. It's not the same as what I see which still has 3D to it but this photo shows approx what I see with open eyes. If there is a eyelid blink then the normal color returns and all murky stuff the returns. This murky sight is dynamic. Bellow this photo is the photo showing how this room looks normally. I wonder if any of you fine folks had this happen with the eyes open during meditation?
upload a photo
upload a photo
It's in the mind though.
Just reinforcing something for you to watch for -- everything is in the mind
Chris Marti:
Can't tell if Arahant can experience directly without this knowing? I mean when conscious. Or is awareness somehow in the sense doior itself without knowing?
Nothing about how human beings experience sensation changes. I'm assuming that's what you're asking me. If I've missed the mark, I'm happy to try again.
Its likely Im the one who missed the mark
Thank you. Ok. So there is this practice and through it there is knowing of how flickeirng all these sensations, mind states and feelings are.This leads to dispassion/disenchantment. The same I quess applies to the Knower/Owner sense of this experience once its seen as flickering sub-selves (alert!!!!! Kenneth talks about "lenses" changing).
If Im getting your reply above then ALL is exactly the same when it comes to experiencing sensations, except there is this disillusionment with these sub-selves/lenses and seeing this there is no one there anymore to go through time claming This Is My Experience. If that sense of I is no more solid and is actually seen (not believed in but actually seen for what it is, flickering and ever chaging just like the itch on the nose) for what it is then there is some kind of "falling away" happening to the Belief of Self and that leads to the tipping point.
Or;
There simply is no sense of self in the moment of Profound Satipatthana, in THIS. This can be experienced anytime during this practice. If so then what is that urge that say "this moment is not good enough, there must be some better experience down the line". Could this urge become solid force of action just because mindfulness has lapsed? In this case going to the gym and training in Mindfulness more is the way. Like; shut up and keep it simple stupid, Ars on the cushion and keep watching.
Sat a 45er.
Laid backpace, slower noting aloud with more emphasis on going into the object. Still relaxed body. Awareness of sitting posture was present with ease. noticing of eye space was there and so was some unclear relation between it and the brain space above it, a bit inside, above but not too much t the back. This space felt unclear in sense of no control and I felt ... whats the word dis..... something, when you cant locate anyone in there, when the "you" is a kind of lost and kind find dirrection but there was no "me" ... cant remeber the bloody word.
There was again these "blips" or "blinks" in the eye/sight space as if the image changes fast like on the power point presentation. This would take place when the eye lids would not blink much. It really has that "unkown event" like feels to it.
Ear frequency was present without much change to it except in volume changing at times.
Thoughts were mosty in the image space rather than narrative.
Absorption took place after some time but I let go of it by opening the eyes some more and sharpening the gaze. Less diffusion in the eye sight and the absorption would diminish.Still it came back in as soon the eye sight would get wider and diffused so I let it stay and do its thing. Similar room image where colors seems to go into dark image in the mind (open eyes). This image is dynamic and changing. The absorption seems to be connected with the warm pleasant vibration from the hands cupped in one another and spreading up into the arms.
Not many body nasties except a hard large rock like feeling in the upper belly which is hind of hitting into the solar plexsus area too. A few stiff points inbeween the shoulder blades but would vanish. Legs had that numbness to it and those slight pins and needles but subtle.
Right now there is some nice awareness of the breathing and mind seems pacified and calm. Some sense of urges arising just to pass away fast. There is ease of noticing the body sensations.
About those image thoughts;
they would be in form of this forum like an image of words "agnostic" or the image of Steph's avatar, or words "Chris Marti" and his avatar, and words like "Tim FF" and his image (the photo Ive seen of him on the net once and word "Forum".
There was also a planning thought to make video or it so to share it with agnostic and then there was this aversion towards making this video, like its a stupid idea. All this was Noted Aloud as thinking, planning thoughts, imagining (mind image), feeling tone and connecting with some body sensation associated with it (usually in form of excitement-peassure in the belly or solar plexsus, unpleasantish).
I did make the video but yes its stupid and I decided not to post it. It is ridiculous me sitting there and blabbing about mind states and mind images really
Anythinng else to report ... dunno ... I think thats it.
EDIT; Ah yes, I tried Pepe's suggestion looking up+right and it caused strain in the eyes (the eye musscles). I gave up on it as I dont like forcing anything causing strain in the body.
Laid backpace, slower noting aloud with more emphasis on going into the object. Still relaxed body. Awareness of sitting posture was present with ease. noticing of eye space was there and so was some unclear relation between it and the brain space above it, a bit inside, above but not too much t the back. This space felt unclear in sense of no control and I felt ... whats the word dis..... something, when you cant locate anyone in there, when the "you" is a kind of lost and kind find dirrection but there was no "me" ... cant remeber the bloody word.
There was again these "blips" or "blinks" in the eye/sight space as if the image changes fast like on the power point presentation. This would take place when the eye lids would not blink much. It really has that "unkown event" like feels to it.
Ear frequency was present without much change to it except in volume changing at times.
Thoughts were mosty in the image space rather than narrative.
Absorption took place after some time but I let go of it by opening the eyes some more and sharpening the gaze. Less diffusion in the eye sight and the absorption would diminish.Still it came back in as soon the eye sight would get wider and diffused so I let it stay and do its thing. Similar room image where colors seems to go into dark image in the mind (open eyes). This image is dynamic and changing. The absorption seems to be connected with the warm pleasant vibration from the hands cupped in one another and spreading up into the arms.
Not many body nasties except a hard large rock like feeling in the upper belly which is hind of hitting into the solar plexsus area too. A few stiff points inbeween the shoulder blades but would vanish. Legs had that numbness to it and those slight pins and needles but subtle.
Right now there is some nice awareness of the breathing and mind seems pacified and calm. Some sense of urges arising just to pass away fast. There is ease of noticing the body sensations.
About those image thoughts;
they would be in form of this forum like an image of words "agnostic" or the image of Steph's avatar, or words "Chris Marti" and his avatar, and words like "Tim FF" and his image (the photo Ive seen of him on the net once and word "Forum".
There was also a planning thought to make video or it so to share it with agnostic and then there was this aversion towards making this video, like its a stupid idea. All this was Noted Aloud as thinking, planning thoughts, imagining (mind image), feeling tone and connecting with some body sensation associated with it (usually in form of excitement-peassure in the belly or solar plexsus, unpleasantish).
I did make the video but yes its stupid and I decided not to post it. It is ridiculous me sitting there and blabbing about mind states and mind images really
Anythinng else to report ... dunno ... I think thats it.
EDIT; Ah yes, I tried Pepe's suggestion looking up+right and it caused strain in the eyes (the eye musscles). I gave up on it as I dont like forcing anything causing strain in the body.
Papa Che Dusko:
I did make the video but yes its stupid and I decided not to post it. It is ridiculous me sitting there and blabbing about mind states and mind images really
I believe you can guess my opinion as to what you should do with this video.
no, my friend, not stick it up your arse.
Post it.
My narrative sucks! Maybe you could write me a scrip for my next video? I need it to have an authentic feel, insightful, tragicomic, to make you feel nauseous and excited at the same time, as if you have realized at last the illusion that chakra system was wrong all along and it never really opened up from Root to Crown, but the other way around instead, from top of the head all the way down resulting in the greatest bliss firework from your ars!
Papa Che Dusko:
My narrative sucks! Maybe you could write me a scrip for my next video? I need it to have an authentic feel, insightful, tragicomic, to make you feel nauseous and excited at the same time, as if you have realized at last the illusion that chakra system was wrong all along and it never really opened up from Root to Crown, but the other way around instead, from top of the head all the way down resulting in the greatest bliss firework from your ars!
Seriously, though i'm pretty sure you weren't!
Plus, i'm in full on silent retreat mode, so if you guys could keep the bullshit to a dull roar and quit forcing me to scream expletives from Re-Ob, i would appreciate it.
Ehm! Dear sir look around you! You are inside my zendo causing not-so-Noble Silence
Shhhh! (Zen master walking around with his trusted Kyosaku).
Shhhh! (Zen master walking around with his trusted Kyosaku).
Papa Che Dusko:
Ehm! Dear sir look around you! You are inside my zendo causing not-so-Noble Silence
Shhhh! (Zen master walking around with his trusted Kyosaku).
Shhhh! (Zen master walking around with his trusted Kyosaku).
Hit me with your best shot, Esteemed Roshi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JRgHol94Xc
Got up before the rest of family and sat a 45er.
Was slow, laid back, groggy, sleepy in a waking up way instead of sleepy in a falling a sleep way, which is good.
Mind is a different beast in the early morning. As if it's dwelling in a different realm than the one in the afternoon.
At one stage had a train of images, one after the other of people I know both dead and alive.
Stiff in the body , back, neck and lower belly.
Planning thoughts of coffee making go figure.
Btw, did noting aloud but rather quiet as I was just out of bed and can't have someone shouting in my ears early in the morning
This early session was not as precise as the afternoon session but that's ok and it might reveal something else this way.
Maybe have a cup of coffee first to wake up some more? Or just sit with that half-sleepiness which I did back in my Shamatha days no problem.
This will work.
Was slow, laid back, groggy, sleepy in a waking up way instead of sleepy in a falling a sleep way, which is good.
Mind is a different beast in the early morning. As if it's dwelling in a different realm than the one in the afternoon.
At one stage had a train of images, one after the other of people I know both dead and alive.
Stiff in the body , back, neck and lower belly.
Planning thoughts of coffee making
go figure. Btw, did noting aloud but rather quiet as I was just out of bed and can't have someone shouting in my ears early in the morning
This early session was not as precise as the afternoon session but that's ok and it might reveal something else this way.
Maybe have a cup of coffee first to wake up some more? Or just sit with that half-sleepiness which I did back in my Shamatha days no problem.
This will work.
Papa Che Dusko:
Got up before the rest of family and sat a 45er.
Was slow, laid back, groggy, sleepy in a waking up way instead of sleepy in a falling a sleep way, which is good.
Mind is a different beast in the early morning. As if it's dwelling in a different realm than the one in the afternoon.
At one stage had a train of images, one after the other of people I know both dead and alive.
Stiff in the body , back, neck and lower belly.
Planning thoughts of coffee making go figure.
Btw, did noting aloud but rather quiet as I was just out of bed and can't have someone shouting in my ears early in the morning
This early session was not as precise as the afternoon session but that's ok and it might reveal something else this way.
Maybe have a cup of coffee first to wake up some more? Or just sit with that half-sleepiness which I did back in my Shamatha days no problem.
This will work.
Was slow, laid back, groggy, sleepy in a waking up way instead of sleepy in a falling a sleep way, which is good.
Mind is a different beast in the early morning. As if it's dwelling in a different realm than the one in the afternoon.
At one stage had a train of images, one after the other of people I know both dead and alive.
Stiff in the body , back, neck and lower belly.
Planning thoughts of coffee making
go figure. Btw, did noting aloud but rather quiet as I was just out of bed and can't have someone shouting in my ears early in the morning
This early session was not as precise as the afternoon session but that's ok and it might reveal something else this way.
Maybe have a cup of coffee first to wake up some more? Or just sit with that half-sleepiness which I did back in my Shamatha days no problem.
This will work.
Papa Che, you know that during my recent period of, um, Very High Energy Often Taken to Be Fucking MANIA, i was consciously foregoing my usual pre-first-sit cup of coffee in my wee hours routine, in order to best simulate dark night conditions. Right now I would rather die than simulate any more fucking dark night, and so i drink that sacred cup, check my supply for the future, and fuck everything about anything, and sit like the caffeined-up Chan monks of old, who knew a thing or two about waking up.
When you say clear distance between the Watcher and the seen, etc... do you mean that there seems to be a perceived seemingly physical distance between them, like the Watcher happens here, seeing happens there? Or do you mean it less literally, like that you're noticing the actual time-lapse arising & passing space between those, as in, the Watcher arises and passes, then seeing arises and passes, then Watcher arises and passes, then hearing arises and passes, for example?
Feeling tone as part of the watcher space is *really* difficult to crack. So far I think there's mental image, a feeling tone, and some tension, all 3 of which are distinct things that happen so quickly that when you're not paying attention they seem to be the same sensation. The feeling tone feels like a sense of a basic vague presence. The tension in the third eye area sometimes is intense and sometimes is barely there or seems non-existent. Spoiler alert - owing to that very fact, it's impermanent and not you. The feeling tone is just a feeling tone, that also changes in intensity and flavor. You know that, I know that, lots of us know that, but they still psychs us out into thinking they're important and huge.
Edited to add: Here's a hint for practice. Look at the feeling tone/presence and the breath - when the breath inhales and you can feel it in the top of the nostrils and the head. See how they relate and impact one another.
Feeling tone as part of the watcher space is *really* difficult to crack. So far I think there's mental image, a feeling tone, and some tension, all 3 of which are distinct things that happen so quickly that when you're not paying attention they seem to be the same sensation. The feeling tone feels like a sense of a basic vague presence. The tension in the third eye area sometimes is intense and sometimes is barely there or seems non-existent. Spoiler alert - owing to that very fact, it's impermanent and not you. The feeling tone is just a feeling tone, that also changes in intensity and flavor. You know that, I know that, lots of us know that, but they still psychs us out into thinking they're important and huge.
Edited to add: Here's a hint for practice. Look at the feeling tone/presence and the breath - when the breath inhales and you can feel it in the top of the nostrils and the head. See how they relate and impact one another.
Steph S:
When you say clear distance between the Watcher and the seen, etc... do you mean that there seems to be a perceived seemingly physical distance between them, like the Watcher happens here, seeing happens there? Or do you mean it less literally, like that you're noticing the actual time-lapse arising & passing space between those, as in, the Watcher arises and passes, then seeing arises and passes, then Watcher arises and passes, then hearing arises and passes, for example?
Feeling tone as part of the watcher space is *really* difficult to crack. So far I think there's mental image, a feeling tone, and some tension, all 3 of which are distinct things that happen so quickly that when you're not paying attention they seem to be the same sensation. The feeling tone feels like a sense of a basic vague presence. The tension in the third eye area sometimes is intense and sometimes is barely there or seems non-existent. Spoiler alert - owing to that very fact, it's impermanent and not you. The feeling tone is just a feeling tone, that also changes in intensity and flavor. You know that, I know that, lots of us know that, but they still psychs us out into thinking they're important and huge.
Edited to add: Here's a hint for practice. Look at the feeling tone/presence and the breath - when the breath inhales and you can feel it in the top of the nostrils and the head. See how they relate and impact one another.
Feeling tone as part of the watcher space is *really* difficult to crack. So far I think there's mental image, a feeling tone, and some tension, all 3 of which are distinct things that happen so quickly that when you're not paying attention they seem to be the same sensation. The feeling tone feels like a sense of a basic vague presence. The tension in the third eye area sometimes is intense and sometimes is barely there or seems non-existent. Spoiler alert - owing to that very fact, it's impermanent and not you. The feeling tone is just a feeling tone, that also changes in intensity and flavor. You know that, I know that, lots of us know that, but they still psychs us out into thinking they're important and huge.
Edited to add: Here's a hint for practice. Look at the feeling tone/presence and the breath - when the breath inhales and you can feel it in the top of the nostrils and the head. See how they relate and impact one another.
To be honest I dont really know and to be honest there is no rush here
I take it as it comes. If Im too dense and too stupid to "see" things then I just have to sit much more That to is fine. Its going to pop out, that insight, when its baked long enough.I log this stuff so to keep other members inspired as I personally dont need this in written form as Im kind of letting go of it all as soon as I get up from the seat.
I do notice these senses of "distance" changing with each sit. Some days there is no sense of "distance" and other days there is. No biggie as I can see 2 out of 3 C's at once; Anicca and Anatta. Thats good enough for me as Im not really trying to "master" these stages but just get awakened and to me its about one moment at a time dismantling the Chariot into its myriad parts until there is no more perception Chariot left to even consider asking "Who am I? "
Im the kind of guy that needs to invest 60 bucks to win 40 bucks I really am! Same applies to this Path journey. Some of us have dense Karma and some dont. I know some folks dont believe this but I find it to be true in my case. I see it in all aspects of my life (long story). If so then be it. Sit and watch, no laps.Funny how insight strikes when you least expect it as do other thingies on this Path. My recipe is simple; keep noticing the stream of consciousness without any laps in mindfulness. Thats all. Nothing else is important. Much of this stuff is up to the mind anyway. All it needs is something holding the mirror for it so it can look at it self instead of going here and there creating dream worlds.
I really liked reading about Sariputra and Mogalana talking about the four ways of progress;
"Venerable Maha Moggallana went to see the Elder and said to him:
"There are four ways of progress, brother Sariputta:
difficult progress, with sluggish direct-knowledge;
difficult progress, with swift direct-knowledge;
easy progress, with sluggish direct-knowledge;
easy progress, with swift direct-knowledge.
"By which of these four ways of progress, brother, was your mind freed from the cankers without remnants of clinging?" To which the Venerable Sariputta replied: "By that of those four ways of progress, brother, which is easy and has swift direct-knowledge."
I wouldn't be surprised if Im the "difficult progress, with sluggish direct-knowledge"
(here the 1st part is for the first 3 paths and the last direct-knowledge for Arahatship).Chris Marti seems to be "difficult progress, with swift direct-knowledge" I mean look at the guy! 8 months from 1st to gone gone gone
You Steph might be "easy progress, with sluggish direct-knowledge"
Wonder what Tim FF is to be ... hm ...
...Sorry if Im off the mark Steph. Long day and my little boy is going back to his kindergarden tomorrow for the first time after about 6 weeks of lock down with me in our home
Im sure we both need a break from one another a bit p.s. Chris will kill me if he sees all these smilies! Any one care to clean them up a bit?
Chris Marti:
I mean look at the guy! 8 months from 1st to gone gone gone
This is not accurate.
Hey Chris
what ya havin' ? Hey Tim give the man a pint let him loosen up a bit. Put it on my tab!
Papa Che Dusko:
Chris Marti:
I mean look at the guy! 8 months from 1st to gone gone gone
This is not accurate.
Hey Chris
what ya havin' ? Hey Tim give the man a pint let him loosen up a bit. Put it on my tab!That young fella has been telling some great stories lately, Papa-ji, on the where are CM's etc? thread 2. He's loose as a goose, and sloppy drunk, spilling stuff on zen masters left and right.
My reply yesterday was a bit funky my apologies for grooving along Tim's saxophone lead
Yes, that is some interesting stuff you are pointing out to.
What I can sense right now while writing this is ...
... there seems to be an eyesight blip when attention moves to another object. At times very clear blip and more often just about noticeable. It immediately returns back to the supposed knower/eye space/head space creating a reference point.
So yes when watched closely there are gaps like projector slides returning to that point of reference, like "itch is to the left in the level of the mustache".
Thank you Steph, will keep observing this as it presents itself.
my apologies for grooving along Tim's saxophone lead Yes, that is some interesting stuff you are pointing out to.
What I can sense right now while writing this is ...
... there seems to be an eyesight blip when attention moves to another object. At times very clear blip and more often just about noticeable. It immediately returns back to the supposed knower/eye space/head space creating a reference point.
So yes when watched closely there are gaps like projector slides returning to that point of reference, like "itch is to the left in the level of the mustache".
Thank you Steph, will keep observing this as it presents itself.
I note aloud. I can hear it, I can feel the mouth moving and throat and head vibrating from the voice. Intention to note objects is there and so is mindfulness/alertness/attention. Attention and objects arise and pass. There is focus either zoomed in or out and wide.
Then there is sudden scenario spin thinking and at the same time of noticing (silently momentary in the mind) this thinking there is also noticing (silently momentary in the mind) of the Noting Aloud Voice still noting other objects Ha!
Now we talk multiple noters. Which one is awake and which one asleep? It really feels like there is something else hovering over both the Noticer and the Zoned out mind.
It's interesting all this. Starts to feel like a multi-layered maze! All this stuff could very well be a dream world. All of it even the awakening.
Makes sense why Buddha thought Nibbana as the actual cessation of suffering. Pari-Nibbana. Good bye and thanks for all the fish
Then there is sudden scenario spin thinking and at the same time of noticing (silently momentary in the mind) this thinking there is also noticing (silently momentary in the mind) of the Noting Aloud Voice still noting other objects
Ha! Now we talk multiple noters. Which one is awake and which one asleep?
It really feels like there is something else hovering over both the Noticer and the Zoned out mind. It's interesting all this. Starts to feel like a multi-layered maze! All this stuff could very well be a dream world. All of it even the awakening.
Makes sense why Buddha thought Nibbana as the actual cessation of suffering. Pari-Nibbana. Good bye and thanks for all the fish
Papa Che Dusko:
It's interesting all this. Starts to feel like a multi-layered maze! All this stuff could very well be a dream world. All of it even the awakening.
Makes sense why Buddha thought Nibbana as the actual cessation of suffering. Pari-Nibbana. Good bye and thanks for all the fish
love, tim
Made a video after my regular 45 minutes sit. I did something else this time. It just came to me , likely as a result of what Chris Marti was asking in Steps's log. Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings.
https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid
but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings. https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
I have realized that I've been spending time pondering stuff during meditation thanks to the chat with Steph and Chris so decided to go back to speed noting to get back on track instead of pondering.
Made a short vid after the 45 minute sit to capture the speed noting feel and body twitching which was there throughout the whole sit, unpleasant. Also stiff pain under the right shoulder blade was unpleasant. People report some serious body movements in meditation but in my experience they were never radical but are unpleasant.
https://youtu.be/yBm
TTPzdo
so decided to go back to speed noting to get back on track instead of pondering. Made a short vid after the 45 minute sit to capture the speed noting feel and body twitching which was there throughout the whole sit, unpleasant. Also stiff pain under the right shoulder blade was unpleasant. People report some serious body movements in meditation but in my experience they were never radical but are unpleasant.
https://youtu.be/yBm
TTPzdo
Sat a 45er.
The eyesight blip was happening very often and seems to happen even if attention is held on one object, same object. It seems as that object is held in one frame for only "this" moment and then it's part of another arising and gets its own frame.
Ive had one eyesight bleep that stood out of the bunch by having a 2-stage in it. It's almost as it went "swoosh-swoosh" and then new arising was there. Could that 2-stage swoosh be the Doors?
Will pay more attention to this when it presents itself.
These eyesight bleeps seem like a "blind spot". Are these "emptiness" ? Must be no? Arising-peak experience-passing-Blip-arising-peak experience-passing-blip-arising ...
Any who, absorption was strong, murky image space, flickering and vanishing was observed.
Stiff shoulder blade still there. Stiff neck too.
There was a rat walking above me in the roof and biting into the wooden construction. Some ill will and planning thoughts were present as how to get it out of there. I did give it heads up though by sending some Metta first. Clever rat moved away and got silent!
The eyesight blip was happening very often and seems to happen even if attention is held on one object, same object. It seems as that object is held in one frame for only "this" moment and then it's part of another arising and gets its own frame.
Ive had one eyesight bleep that stood out of the bunch by having a 2-stage in it. It's almost as it went "swoosh-swoosh" and then new arising was there. Could that 2-stage swoosh be the Doors?
Will pay more attention to this when it presents itself.
These eyesight bleeps seem like a "blind spot". Are these "emptiness" ? Must be no? Arising-peak experience-passing-Blip-arising-peak experience-passing-blip-arising ...
Any who, absorption was strong, murky image space, flickering and vanishing was observed.
Stiff shoulder blade still there. Stiff neck too.
There was a rat walking above me in the roof and biting into the wooden construction. Some ill will and planning thoughts were present as how to get it out of there. I did give it heads up though by sending some Metta first. Clever rat
moved away and got silent!
Papa Che Dusko:
Sat a 45er.
There was a rat walking above me in the roof and biting into the wooden construction. Some ill will and planning thoughts were present as how to get it out of there. I did give it heads up though by sending some Metta first. Clever rat moved away and got silent!
There was a rat walking above me in the roof and biting into the wooden construction. Some ill will and planning thoughts were present as how to get it out of there. I did give it heads up though by sending some Metta first. Clever rat
moved away and got silent! Next time, tell him: "you've got your yellow card. If you get a red card, ratsie, it's game fucking over. Got it? Now get gone, while you can."
Note; last two nights there was a fear factor observed. As if there was a threat.
Today sat a 45er.
The sit started alert and quickly went into absorbtion with a weak purple haze around spot I stared at (open eyes). Soon after the entire seen room went dark/murky but still with 3D shapes of the objects in the room. The center spot I stared at was vanishing. Noting of other objects like hearing, feeling, touching, imagining etc .. were arising also but the vanishing was clear part of this absorption in the image space.
At some stage there was this something ... like an "idea" or "cligning urge" searching for "meaning" "seeking preference" as if it was sliding through the body sensations, feelings and mind states and "choosing" what was pleasant and what was unpleasant ... if Im to make an iage of that feel/perception it would be like a nebulous snake wiggling its way around the body-mind in hunt for what is "prefered".
Then after the Dark-murky vanishing absorption there was ligting up a bit (not dark-murky) of the visual room and all the image was even. There was still this slight defused sight but with more color and all seemed Flat. Very calm, and noting was slow but very much alert and without effort.
Then some body jerks started happening jeez, all this seems to go the other way around then towards the end of this sit there were some images of a monk in yellow robes sitting in the forrest and facing a tiger approaching, there was staring at the tigers eyes and feeling of chill vibrations on the monk's skin, noting it, knowing it, seeing it, anticipating, acceptance, smile on the face, composure of posture, there is breath.
Today sat a 45er.
The sit started alert and quickly went into absorbtion with a weak purple haze around spot I stared at (open eyes). Soon after the entire seen room went dark/murky but still with 3D shapes of the objects in the room. The center spot I stared at was vanishing. Noting of other objects like hearing, feeling, touching, imagining etc .. were arising also but the vanishing was clear part of this absorption in the image space.
At some stage there was this something ... like an "idea" or "cligning urge" searching for "meaning" "seeking preference" as if it was sliding through the body sensations, feelings and mind states and "choosing" what was pleasant and what was unpleasant ... if Im to make an iage of that feel/perception it would be like a nebulous snake wiggling its way around the body-mind in hunt for what is "prefered".
Then after the Dark-murky vanishing absorption there was ligting up a bit (not dark-murky) of the visual room and all the image was even. There was still this slight defused sight but with more color and all seemed Flat. Very calm, and noting was slow but very much alert and without effort.
Then some body jerks started happening
jeez, all this seems to go the other way around then towards the end of this sit there were some images of a monk in yellow robes sitting in the forrest and facing a tiger approaching, there was staring at the tigers eyes and feeling of chill vibrations on the monk's skin, noting it, knowing it, seeing it, anticipating, acceptance, smile on the face, composure of posture, there is breath.
Papa Che Dusko:
Sat a 45er.
oh boy this session was disgusting.
Started with jerky focus. Ear frequency was drumming-like. There was high pitch frequency but also deep drumming.
At some stage there was an unpleasant sense of nauseous feeling in the upper belly. The breath entering the mouth (noting aloud quietly while in and outbreathing, rather fast) felt diqusting. The contact with the toungue and then down the throat was as if the breath was made of something utterly disgusting and would go down my throat into the belly. I thought at some stage I will actually puke!
Then misery kicked in and hope that the timer will chime in soon ... but it didn't. It felt miserable and disgusting. There was acceptance and endurance.
Body jerks were present also as well as numb bum and right leg, and left hand was squeezing the right hand often (each time when noticed had to relax it again).
At the start there were many eyesight blips but then with disgust the eye lids were blinking rapidly and constantly.
Throughout the session there was a sense of unpleasant heat that was causing sweat.
Now off cushion I feel better but the ear drumming is still there and is not pleasant.
oh boy this session was disgusting.
Started with jerky focus. Ear frequency was drumming-like. There was high pitch frequency but also deep drumming.
At some stage there was an unpleasant sense of nauseous feeling in the upper belly. The breath entering the mouth (noting aloud quietly while in and outbreathing, rather fast) felt diqusting. The contact with the toungue and then down the throat was as if the breath was made of something utterly disgusting and would go down my throat into the belly. I thought at some stage I will actually puke!
Then misery kicked in and hope that the timer will chime in soon ... but it didn't. It felt miserable and disgusting. There was acceptance and endurance.
Body jerks were present also as well as numb bum and right leg, and left hand was squeezing the right hand often (each time when noticed had to relax it again).
At the start there were many eyesight blips but then with disgust the eye lids were blinking rapidly and constantly.
Throughout the session there was a sense of unpleasant heat that was causing sweat.
Now off cushion I feel better but the ear drumming is still there and is not pleasant.
Wow, that's a lot to go through my friend! Is this what I got to look foward to?
We are all different (if you think Karma we likely don't all share the same karmic load) hence meditative experience will be different from person to person but generally speaking, if you read about the Maps of Insight, it can get unpleasant as a natural progression.
In these unpleasant stages we learn a lot about Acceptance and letting sensations, mind states and feelings do their stuff.
Disqust and Misery seems rather ugly in my case but might be very mild for you.
No reason to obsess with Stages of Insight but it's good to know the general curve of this progressive path; I like it, I don't like it, I really like it, I really don't like it, it's ok all is just fine, "what was that!?"
It's changing. It's Impermanence at work
The more you practice applying Acceptance and letting things do their thing and not fighting it in the early stages the easier it will be when DN stage comes along. Also remember how noting at least 1-2 sensations a second keeps the hindrances short and not-troublesome well that insight will help you big time later on.
Focus only on what is happening right Now. Always just right Now. Is it this stage or that is ok to reflect a bit to get a sense of progress but it's all in the right Now. Seeing those sensations, mind states and feelings is the way through this.
In these unpleasant stages we learn a lot about Acceptance and letting sensations, mind states and feelings do their stuff.
Disqust and Misery seems rather ugly in my case
but might be very mild for you. No reason to obsess with Stages of Insight but it's good to know the general curve of this progressive path; I like it, I don't like it, I really like it, I really don't like it, it's ok all is just fine, "what was that!?"
It's changing. It's Impermanence at work
The more you practice applying Acceptance and letting things do their thing and not fighting it in the early stages the easier it will be when DN stage comes along. Also remember how noting at least 1-2 sensations a second keeps the hindrances short and not-troublesome
well that insight will help you big time later on.Focus only on what is happening right Now. Always just right Now. Is it this stage or that is ok to reflect a bit to get a sense of progress but it's all in the right Now. Seeing those sensations, mind states and feelings is the way through this.
Let me add about today's sit;
There was this hazy feel to it, a bit dream-like but awake. I did try to see if there was this distance feel between the watcher and the sensed object but I could not find that sense of distance.
The seeing and touching felt same as did the hearing and thinking. The watcher if it was anywhere could have been asleep I mean I knew there was a preassure in the solar plexus and pain in the lower back but that Sense of Distance pointing towards the Watcher (usually head space) was not there.
I can't tell more about it at this time.
There was this hazy feel to it, a bit dream-like but awake. I did try to see if there was this distance feel between the watcher and the sensed object but I could not find that sense of distance.
The seeing and touching felt same as did the hearing and thinking. The watcher if it was anywhere could have been asleep
I mean I knew there was a preassure in the solar plexus and pain in the lower back but that Sense of Distance pointing towards the Watcher (usually head space) was not there. I can't tell more about it at this time.
Loch Kelly (Shift into Freedom) uses solar plexus as a "place" for the Watcher. In taoist practices, the lower Dantian is used. Perhaps I said it wrong: the cognitive/perceptual dissonance of having two centers of {X,Y,Z} coordinates is what I believe triggers the Watcher.
It sounds promising what you report!
It sounds promising what you report!
Sat a 45er.
This session was filled with vivid absorption amidst of freestyle noting aloud with eyes open.
There was some interesting movement in the image field;
The center I stared at is a dark dirt spot maybe 1cm in diameter. I'm likely 2 meters away from it. It's in the level of my solar plexus.
The center would have 20cm circle which was hazy light purple, cloud like and moving like a fluid. The dirt spot would vanish and reappear.
The interesting part was a dark mass flowing from outside in, from the right (I actually wrote here left at first as that's how it felt even thought it came in from my right side) side in towards the center but would not mix with the center. Then the dark matter came also from the opposite side, so now there were 2 dark matters moving in, almost look like that flowing lava but without heat and no color at first.
They were flowing in from the sides, inwardly, but in the lower part of the image (I hope this makes sense).
When these two dark lava flowing parts close in to the center (at the 20cm diameter point) they seem to catch on that light purple haze and these two lava like dark parts become light purple and all is not dark/murky anymore.
All this is happening while noting aloud things like, hearing ear pitch, birds singing, awareness of the sitting posture, itching, twitching of body (very few and soft twitches), sensing the breathing clearly etc ...
Funny how Jhana absorption and hard-core Noting Vipassana flow well together. And all this while talking aloud and have eyes open!
Btw, I did decide before the sit to apply acceptance to Jhana in case in arises as I did start developing a bit resistance towards it.
Now I treat it the same way as I treat Dark Night stuff; with acceptance ... AND full noting while it's happening!
Ah yes, body pains have subsided it seems. Slight neck stiffness but that's about it for now.
This session was filled with vivid absorption amidst of freestyle noting aloud with eyes open.
There was some interesting movement in the image field;
The center I stared at is a dark dirt spot maybe 1cm in diameter. I'm likely 2 meters away from it. It's in the level of my solar plexus.
The center would have 20cm circle which was hazy light purple, cloud like and moving like a fluid. The dirt spot would vanish and reappear.
The interesting part was a dark mass flowing from outside in, from the right (I actually wrote here left at first as that's how it felt even thought it came in from my right side) side in towards the center but would not mix with the center. Then the dark matter came also from the opposite side, so now there were 2 dark matters moving in, almost look like that flowing lava but without heat and no color at first.
They were flowing in from the sides, inwardly, but in the lower part of the image (I hope this makes sense).
When these two dark lava flowing parts close in to the center (at the 20cm diameter point) they seem to catch on that light purple haze and these two lava like dark parts become light purple and all is not dark/murky anymore.
All this is happening while noting aloud things like, hearing ear pitch, birds singing, awareness of the sitting posture, itching, twitching of body (very few and soft twitches), sensing the breathing clearly etc ...
Funny how Jhana absorption and hard-core Noting Vipassana flow well together. And all this while talking aloud and have eyes open!
Btw, I did decide before the sit to apply acceptance to Jhana in case in arises as I did start developing a bit resistance towards it.
Now I treat it the same way as I treat Dark Night stuff; with acceptance ... AND
full noting while it's happening! Ah yes, body pains have subsided it seems. Slight neck stiffness but that's about it for now.
Sat a 45er.
Absence of deep/more diffused or even sharp absorption's. Seems like there was a fidgety focus of the early Nanas. Lots of memory, body twitching.
Images of people like so many different people jeez even Bil Hamilton and Shinzen in one package giving birth to Kenneth Folk These image impressions pass very fast.
Ear frequency hearing high pitch. Very sharp itches. Sitting was not an issue but there was preassure in the solar plexsus. Left arm had muscle twitching and some numb pins and needless vibrations. Left eyebrow was pulsating rapidly at some stage then stopped abruptly never to come back.
Stifness in the neck but not terrible.
There is some sense of distortion in the attention itself it seems. Also to mention; at one stage there was a freak out in a sense of "what if all experience cease , what will I note then!". This lasted just a moment.
Edit; eyesight blips were noted. Also there was "blindness" in the sight with open eyes when attention was on a different object like "touching or hearing and having image impression of these" and in that moment my open eyes would get "blind" moment it seems. I'm not seeing this very clear but I'm almost certain of it as I notice that transition from say, touching to eyes seeing. There was this "blindness" just before eye is "seeing" the object I stare at.
Absence of deep/more diffused or even sharp absorption's. Seems like there was a fidgety focus of the early Nanas. Lots of memory, body twitching.
Images of people like so many different people jeez even Bil Hamilton and Shinzen in one package giving birth to Kenneth Folk
These image impressions pass very fast. Ear frequency hearing high pitch. Very sharp itches. Sitting was not an issue but there was preassure in the solar plexsus. Left arm had muscle twitching and some numb pins and needless vibrations. Left eyebrow was pulsating rapidly at some stage then stopped abruptly never to come back.
Stifness in the neck but not terrible.
There is some sense of distortion in the attention itself it seems. Also to mention; at one stage there was a freak out in a sense of "what if all experience cease , what will I note then!". This lasted just a moment.
Edit; eyesight blips were noted. Also there was "blindness" in the sight with open eyes when attention was on a different object like "touching or hearing and having image impression of these" and in that moment my open eyes would get "blind" moment it seems. I'm not seeing this very clear but I'm almost certain of it as I notice that transition from say, touching to eyes seeing. There was this "blindness" just before eye is "seeing" the object I stare at.
Brandon Dayton:
The mind is the most dangerous drug papa.
I just smoked a few mind states! I'm high as a kite bra
you want some?
I don't mind it. Thanks for sharing! So you have a band? I tried to create a band once but it was so hard to match people's personalities. At the end we had only two songs recorded but we eventually split. Now I'm noodling on me own some. Need something outside of meditation so not to obsess too much with it. Music playing also has a very calming effect on me. This calm is dependent on conditions and is not lasting. Of course
Im starting to be more curious about the fine line between Vipassanizing life and Surrender to life. There is this strange movement that clings to experiences constantly and automatically. It grabs on the experience, loops it a few times very fast (likely burning it into the hardware/body) in form of a memory and moves on to the next experience. On and on it goes creating this sense of continuity.
Im not entirely clear about it just yet. Will investigate it next time it pops about.
Kenneth Folk told me that one can Awaken at ANY point of the path. No matter where one is. This keeps me not getting stuck in stages but just be curious about anything that's arising and watch for any other movements around it. So, say, I'm now likely in 3 C's (I believe it to be 2nd paths 3C's but we must not take this to heart) and still I'm open to awakening happening in the midst of it if the "thing" is seen for what it is. Jhana or itch, all is in this "sticky thing".
Im starting to be more curious about the fine line between Vipassanizing life and Surrender to life. There is this strange movement that clings to experiences constantly and automatically. It grabs on the experience, loops it a few times very fast (likely burning it into the hardware/body) in form of a memory and moves on to the next experience. On and on it goes creating this sense of continuity.
Im not entirely clear about it just yet. Will investigate it next time it pops about.
Kenneth Folk told me that one can Awaken at ANY point of the path. No matter where one is. This keeps me not getting stuck in stages but just be curious about anything that's arising and watch for any other movements around it. So, say, I'm now likely in 3 C's (I believe it to be 2nd paths 3C's but we must not take this to heart) and still I'm open to awakening happening in the midst of it if the "thing" is seen for what it is. Jhana or itch, all is in this "sticky thing".
Just sat a 45er.
Calm ... vibrations in palms, High pitch frequency in ears, very glassy almost crystalline sound, like those wands hanging on front porch either made from metal or wood. The sound in my ears is like those just made of many thin crystalline wands ringing together.
There is faith and gladness about this practice.
All the itches changed from sharp to bubbling vibrations very fast and remained bubbling vibrations until gone.
There was absorption but I could only track it to 3rd Jhana and there it wasn't vanishing much. At some stage there was a reset and it started again with pleasant warmth in the palms and non-murk in visuals. Actually there was not much interest in inspecting Jhana. There was more interest in acceptance of anything really rather than locking into a particular thing.
At one stage I've felt and "idea" pulling me off the cushion. I started laughing at it It really looked like a shadow of Me getting up from the chair as there was restlessness in my ars, like unpleasant numbness, going down into right leg too.
In the image space it kind of moved from the chair to the left and it certainly had a force to it! I really started laughing.
Anyway, I made sure to send wishing well to that shade of Me as I do with any other person or being that pops up in meditation.
Anything else to report?
Ok, can't remember more so I'll wrap it up here.
Calm ... vibrations in palms, High pitch frequency in ears, very glassy almost crystalline sound, like those wands hanging on front porch either made from metal or wood. The sound in my ears is like those just made of many thin crystalline wands ringing together.
There is faith and gladness about this practice.
All the itches changed from sharp to bubbling vibrations very fast and remained bubbling vibrations until gone.
There was absorption but I could only track it to 3rd Jhana and there it wasn't vanishing much. At some stage there was a reset and it started again with pleasant warmth in the palms and non-murk in visuals. Actually there was not much interest in inspecting Jhana. There was more interest in acceptance of anything really rather than locking into a particular thing.
At one stage I've felt and "idea" pulling me off the cushion. I started laughing at it
It really looked like a shadow of Me getting up from the chair as there was restlessness in my ars, like unpleasant numbness, going down into right leg too. In the image space it kind of moved from the chair to the left
and it certainly had a force to it! I really started laughing. Anyway, I made sure to send wishing well to that shade of Me as I do with any other person or being that pops up in meditation.
Anything else to report?
Ok, can't remember more so I'll wrap it up here.
Papa Che Dusko:
I left you a comment on SoundCloud
Speaking of SoundCloud, holy shit, man, I just listened to your darknight tune. That's great stuff! I would totally go to your concerts despite there being crowds of people there.
Thanks Linda! I like that tune as well especially as it's a DhO collaboration. Maybe we can call our collab project Late Night Dharma Overground Band
Will try and develop it some more. My arranging skills are not the best but I have a good friend in UK who was my past days collab partner. We made some fine songs (they in my SoundCloud under playlist name Harley Benton Band). He gives me tips and tricks on how to improve or develop my sonic ideas.
But yes, thank you for kind words much appreciated!
I like that tune as well especially as it's a DhO collaboration. Maybe we can call our collab project Late Night Dharma Overground Band Will try and develop it some more. My arranging skills are not the best but I have a good friend in UK who was my past days collab partner. We made some fine songs (they in my SoundCloud under playlist name Harley Benton Band). He gives me tips and tricks on how to improve or develop my sonic ideas.
But yes, thank you for kind words
much appreciated!
Just say a 45er.
Calmness. Warmth in the palms radiating pleasantness. Tingling soft vibrations in palms pleasant. A few body twitches were neutral in feel. Eyesight blips were present. Absorption was present and the eye sight turned into murky image that was flickering. Changing from color to less color and darker. It also had a 2-stage zap-zap eye blip.
Not that clear sense of "distance". Like there was no clear "seen or sensed over there" but also not over here. Rather "don't know".
There was some sense of sadness around the eyes and some "idea" of gladness about this practice. There seems to be an "idea" of sorts behind the sensed sensation.
Some slight slouching of posture and slight lower back pain. The shoulder blade pain has subsided but there is some residue left there.
Ear frequency pitch is very high (like a high note, not sure which). It's neutral in feel.
A few itching spots and very sharp. They vanished after a while but didn't turn into a wider vibratory tingling spot.
And yes, as per usual, planning thoughts, assuming thoughts, imagining thoughts ... all noted and labeled and as such they pass away very quickly just to be replaced by something else. No proliferation allowed in this Noting Aloud business ;)
Ah yes not to forget; breathing out was long and relaxing and breathing in was very short and not as easy.
Edit; noting speed was even and about 3-4 sensation a second (approximately). There was ease to note but a few "don't know" nothings as well, as if I've missed the sensation somehow. Not sure how to describe it.
Calmness. Warmth in the palms radiating pleasantness. Tingling soft vibrations in palms pleasant. A few body twitches were neutral in feel. Eyesight blips were present. Absorption was present and the eye sight turned into murky image that was flickering. Changing from color to less color and darker. It also had a 2-stage zap-zap eye blip.
Not that clear sense of "distance". Like there was no clear "seen or sensed over there" but also not over here. Rather "don't know".
There was some sense of sadness around the eyes and some "idea" of gladness about this practice. There seems to be an "idea" of sorts behind the sensed sensation.
Some slight slouching of posture and slight lower back pain. The shoulder blade pain has subsided but there is some residue left there.
Ear frequency pitch is very high (like a high note, not sure which). It's neutral in feel.
A few itching spots and very sharp. They vanished after a while but didn't turn into a wider vibratory tingling spot.
And yes, as per usual, planning thoughts, assuming thoughts, imagining thoughts ... all noted and labeled and as such they pass away very quickly just to be replaced by something else. No proliferation allowed in this Noting Aloud business ;)
Ah yes not to forget; breathing out was long and relaxing and breathing in was very short and not as easy.
Edit; noting speed was even and about 3-4 sensation a second (approximately). There was ease to note but a few "don't know" nothings as well, as if I've missed the sensation somehow. Not sure how to describe it.