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Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos

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Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 3:30 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/5/20 10:36 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Brandon Dayton 4/5/20 10:59 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/5/20 12:27 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/6/20 4:11 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Brandon Dayton 4/6/20 3:40 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Chris Marti 4/7/20 6:51 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/7/20 9:13 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Chris Marti 4/7/20 9:16 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/7/20 9:20 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Chris Marti 4/7/20 9:21 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/7/20 10:00 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log T 4/7/20 7:38 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/7/20 9:07 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/14/20 4:46 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 5:08 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/14/20 5:17 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 5:47 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log yves tumor 4/16/20 10:30 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 4/16/20 10:47 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 2:32 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 4/16/20 2:53 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 4/16/20 4:07 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 4:21 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 4/16/20 4:41 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/6/20 12:34 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/7/20 1:16 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/8/20 8:14 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/8/20 3:42 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/9/20 9:34 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/10/20 8:07 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/11/20 7:15 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/12/20 8:23 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Chris Marti 4/12/20 8:31 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/12/20 8:46 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/20/20 10:51 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log John W 4/20/20 11:06 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/20/20 1:04 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log John W 4/20/20 3:28 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/20/20 3:40 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/20/20 3:54 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/21/20 11:36 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/21/20 2:45 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/22/20 11:18 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/23/20 4:45 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/25/20 7:09 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 4/25/20 8:12 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 4/25/20 9:12 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 4/26/20 5:36 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/8/20 6:40 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/9/20 2:13 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 5/9/20 2:35 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/9/20 3:39 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 5/9/20 3:46 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/9/20 4:28 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 5/9/20 4:34 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/9/20 4:41 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 5/10/20 6:55 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/9/20 6:01 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/10/20 10:05 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/17/20 4:43 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/17/20 5:59 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/18/20 6:07 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 5/18/20 5:49 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/18/20 6:07 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/19/20 8:24 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Tim Farrington 5/19/20 4:30 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/19/20 5:14 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/19/20 6:45 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log Papa Che Dusko 5/19/20 2:23 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 8:56 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Tim Farrington 4/13/20 9:29 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 9:48 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Tim Farrington 4/13/20 9:31 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Tim Farrington 4/13/20 9:49 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 10:15 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Tim Farrington 4/13/20 10:37 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 2:36 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Tim Farrington 4/14/20 3:48 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 3:58 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Tim Farrington 4/14/20 5:02 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Papa Che Dusko 4/15/20 9:00 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Papa Che Dusko 4/15/20 1:06 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Tim Farrington 4/16/20 8:45 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 3:00 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/17/20 11:00 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 4/17/20 11:11 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/17/20 11:59 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/17/20 1:07 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/18/20 7:52 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/19/20 8:24 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/19/20 10:36 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/20/20 5:22 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/26/20 5:18 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/26/20 12:40 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/27/20 6:32 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 4/27/20 6:36 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/27/20 3:40 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Steph S 4/27/20 4:27 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/27/20 4:56 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Steph S 4/27/20 6:28 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/28/20 4:54 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Steph S 4/29/20 11:17 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/29/20 11:22 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 4/30/20 2:23 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 4/30/20 2:24 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 3:35 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/1/20 3:48 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 4:51 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/1/20 5:22 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 6:23 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/1/20 6:25 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 7:09 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/1/20 7:33 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 8:34 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 9:37 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 9:51 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 12:09 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Chris Marti 5/1/20 12:23 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 12:43 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Chris Marti 5/1/20 1:27 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 3:10 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/1/20 12:30 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 12:45 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/1/20 12:49 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Pepe 5/1/20 2:03 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/1/20 3:26 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/2/20 12:31 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/2/20 12:36 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Pepe 5/2/20 2:06 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/2/20 2:24 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/3/20 8:01 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/3/20 10:02 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/4/20 1:18 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/4/20 1:28 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/4/20 2:08 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/4/20 2:16 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/4/20 2:31 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/4/20 2:33 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/4/20 3:40 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/4/20 3:45 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/4/20 1:29 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/5/20 4:58 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/5/20 11:46 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/6/20 12:31 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/7/20 12:48 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/7/20 1:12 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/7/20 2:00 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/10/20 6:55 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/11/20 10:59 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Steph S 5/11/20 11:29 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/11/20 3:00 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Chris Marti 5/11/20 3:17 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/11/20 3:36 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/11/20 3:40 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/11/20 3:47 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/11/20 3:55 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/11/20 9:33 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/12/20 2:26 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Steph S 5/12/20 8:55 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/12/20 11:46 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/13/20 4:38 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/13/20 5:15 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/14/20 6:05 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/15/20 3:12 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/11/20 11:21 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/11/20 3:02 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/11/20 3:38 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/12/20 4:44 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Tim Farrington 5/12/20 5:00 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/15/20 10:14 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/20/20 4:37 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/21/20 4:28 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/21/20 8:44 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/21/20 12:36 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/22/20 5:18 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/23/20 6:50 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/24/20 5:27 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/25/20 2:33 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/25/20 5:56 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/26/20 5:32 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Hibiscus Kid 5/26/20 7:00 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/26/20 9:19 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Sam Gentile 5/26/20 11:31 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/26/20 1:05 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/27/20 4:30 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/28/20 5:17 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Pepe 5/28/20 8:49 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/28/20 8:38 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/28/20 8:46 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Pepe 5/28/20 9:06 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/29/20 9:49 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/30/20 8:05 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/31/20 5:00 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/31/20 7:02 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 6/1/20 4:58 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 6/1/20 5:10 AM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 6/2/20 12:01 PM
RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos Papa Che Dusko 5/16/20 7:16 AM
Decided today to restart my Noting practice. Sat for 45 minutes and it went like butter as per usual with this practice, as for me it seems to decimate the hindrances very fast.
Im following Kenneth Folk's teaching and using the Freestyle Noting Aloud. I have got some fine results with it last year so see no reason to change the method for now.

As Im jobless now and looking after our little 4 yo boy I will need to organize practice in the early morning or/and late evening. Weekend is easier as my partner can look after our son during my practice time.

May this practice be of benefit to countless beings.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/5/20 10:36 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Made this short video after my main sit. It's a demonstration for those wondering what this Aloud Noting is. 
Now that I look at it, it seems so uncool to sit on a chair and speak aloud while having open eyes emoticon so not what meditation ought to look like emoticon 

Such a fantastic practice this is. Glad I restarted it as I haven't been practicing it since July last year. 

By the way that Champagne bottle on the floor is empty and used for the New Years Eve emoticon cheers! 

https://youtu.be/9FeajWRJcXA

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/5/20 10:59 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Interesting to watch this in action. The casualness with which you do this is not what I expected. I feel like I need to be holding super still whenever I meditate.

I was actually trying this this morning and I found that I would lose the mindfulness of sensations as my attention was taken up by the vocalizations. Have you ever run into this? I'm used to noting in my mind, where it goes very quickly. Maybe I need to slow down when making the switch to noting out loud.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/5/20 12:27 PM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
Yes all sorts of stuff can arise. Also what you mention. I hear myself hence "hearing". When I vocalize then there is also "vibrations" in the head and throat. Dryness in the mouth as it's open often etc.
One object is being Noted Aloud and several more could be simply noticed at the very same time. All depends on the Stage ones mind is in.  

Yes at times there is a remembering/planning thinking process going on parallel with let's say "seeing" and one can get slightly under the radar depending on the stage mind is in at that time. 

What I do is keep eyes usually focused on one spot. This can change and move to another spot (dirt on the floor, or else). I find this helps with adding some concentration to the soup. 

I do keep the body legs and arms in same position and NEVER do I scratch an ITCH emoticon Itch is such a great object to observe all the way from razer sharp unpleasantness to bubbling vibratory sensation of rather neutral feel. 

At times there can be a question "Am I sure that I'm noting matter of fact ???"  Then I look and listen and re-engage into Noting Aloud matter of fact. 

All sorts of sensation and mind states arise emoticon It's a circus in there emoticon what a show! 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/6/20 4:11 AM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
Mental states including attention are subject to change. We might desire to investigate a certain sensation, apply profound mindfulness to it, just to notice that the attention has shifted over to the hearing of a bird chirping outside, which again goes like ; hearing, comprehending, imagining, feeling (might not be in this order but I'm not a master nor do I aspire to be one). 

Then there is annoyance with the fact that attention has gone elsewhere. It's unpleasant/frustrating. This is only if we insist to solidify on any particular object. 

I find it easier to just Note whatever is flowing , popping up in this-ness. Not as right or wrong. All I do is keep awake in the present matter of fact , accepting manner. 

Hope this clarifies a bit. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/6/20 12:34 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
This might just work. As soon my partner came back from work I've got time to sit a 45-er and now that its done we can focus on making some dinner.

I will not talk much about practice unless I feel some clear shifts taking place. So far there is mucho itching, numbness in the bum, high frequency in the ears, stiffness in the neck, sense of the watcher behind the eyes, irritation with the repetitive mind states and sensations, gladness when itch arises as its a very clear object to pay attention to and there is clear change from sharp itch to throbing/bubbly itch sensation that is wider.

Will post each day when I sit for the minimum of 45mins. 

Off to make some dinner now!

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/6/20 3:40 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Tried this out a bit more today. I'll give it a whirl more in the future.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 6:51 AM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
I went to visit Kenneth Folk in San Fransisco some years ago, back when he was feasting from the teat of his uber-wealthy techie patrons out there. He took me to a little non-wealthy, non-techie sangha meetup in a dive bar and we sat around in a circle, on chairs, doing just what you did in your video. I hated it, but I played along. I just wanted a beer. I can't get into this kind of thing but I do believe it's very helpful for some people. I'm just not them.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 7:38 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Are you just grabbing the thing that is most obvious in your awareness in that moment? Assuming that other things are also present in your awareness, but just labeling that most obvious thing.

Is that correct?

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 9:07 AM as a reply to T.
Yes, myriads of stuff is arising and noting all at the same time is rather impossible as we can't process so much info. 

Noting is a tool to keep one engaged without loosing the stream of consciousness, without getting lost in any objects for even a short moment. 

Anything that is predominant in this moment is normally being noted/labeled. 

An itch arises and of course the attention immediately goes to it. Suddenly attention moves to the chirping of a bird outside. Image impression of it. Then there is urge to come back to the itch to observe it (urge/intention as mind state with a certain feel) etc ... 

Then there is wondering what else there is to be noted as Interest, as Curiosity (mind states). Could be whatever really, warmth in the hands or wetness in the mouth. 

So it's not important to stay with any object for too long as it's important to Notice the interplay with all the mind states and sensations. 

No time for contemplating too much during the practice. That is labeled as Thinking and noting moves on. 

Please do note that all this stuff depends on the Stage ones mind is in (3C's, AP, EQ whatever). 

Noting will speed up, slow down, get wide, sharp, dissolving, ... 

There is no time here for self-validation to take place if one is really on top of it. As Ingram said 1-10 sensation per second. 
As I Label one aloud I also Notice other arisings too without labeling them. 

So there is lots of Noting but much more Noticing also. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 9:13 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Yes. I had the same impression back in my Shamatha days. 
This changed last year. As it was not Shamatha that got me out of DN but Noting Aloud did.

Yes it can be boring BUT ONLY if you are NOT Mindfull sir ;) If you are on top of it tap tap tap tap that very Boredom will pass away very fast just to be exchanged with a sound of a bird chirping outside or the high pitch frequency in your ears or the itch or swallowing or ... 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 9:16 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Noting doesn't do a helluva lot for me these days but I do use it periodically. First, doing it reminds me of climbing the mountain and second, it can be a great grounding tool.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 9:20 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
What's your favorite tool? 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 9:21 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
No tool at all!

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 10:00 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
No tool at all!

Ah I see dear sir. In that case I shall bow to you Mr. Arahant. (Do you now get freebies wherever you go? ) 



smiley alert!!!


whooooooo emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/7/20 1:16 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45-er today. Have a headache all day long and sitting with it was ok actually. That pulsating migrane pain. Lots of seeing, lots of itching, stiffness, some restlessness, many thoughts about this forum (sign to engage Noble Silence/Talk). Might even update this thread every few weeks instead.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/8/20 8:14 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Oh boy oh boy do I dislike these early stages. Neck stiff, migraine like headache, throat sore, lower back pain, general agitation, high pitch ear frequency. Argh... 

Back to practice. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/8/20 3:42 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Love the experice when the persception of whole body either starts to shrink or get larger. Today while sitting it was shrinking. Only a few days ago it was getting larger (I like that as I feel like a Super-man graahhh).

Migraine-like headache and neck stifness and throat sorness and lower back pain remain all day. Got to realise, during the sit, that ALL these are on the LEFT side! Even the high pitch frequency was stronger on the left side.

Went for a 3km jogging after the sit (last time I did that was ... a few years ago emoticon  ) 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/9/20 9:34 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45-er today and all was very calm and very concentrated. Noting voice was very slow and laid back but Silent Noticing inbetween was much sharper and the noticing had an intimate feel with the objects, cosy even.

I managed to make a short video after the sit so to capture the dynamics. One can certainly hear/see difference in energy/dynamics between the 2 vids I posted.

I will try and do these short vids every so often, so we can kind of observe how things change with time depending on which stage one's mind is in. Some folks might find this useful, or not. BTW, did some commenting in the vid which I dont really do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbdJDQCw3aQ&feature=youtu.be

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/10/20 8:07 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er today;

Not much body nastiness this time. Lots of visual stuff. Eyes open and the room turned into a darker image and very much 2D as it was a drawing on a paper. Center was clear but the periphery was blurred. The whole session had a Jhanic feel, very concentrated, fast, calm, the noting voice was very rhythmic tap tap tap tap and at some point became whispering.

The spot where I rested the eys wanished a few times.

Subtle vibrations in feet and hands. Preassure in the right head side. The whole sit had a bit of a sadness to it. Dunno; could be review of dissolution or some mixed up stuff in the 3C'. Matters not. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/11/20 7:15 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
45er sit today. 

@Steph S 's avatar popped up in the image space a few times and it felt pleasant emoticon not sure what that means emoticon

First half of session was calm, slow but deep noting and soaking into the object, then last half went into a more confused jerky, not-behaving attention or urge to be mindful of somthing fully, yet something else would pop up in the meantime and there would be this "hit and miss" feeling which was rather unpleasant. Sense of someone trying to do it and failing utterly.

2nd half was covered in scenarios and images about some stuff from past or this forum. Also some annoyance with the repetitive patterns to be observed (comparison from previous sits and even the sits from last year as Im using the same location).

Some neck stiffness, sore throatness, preassure on the left side of the head, bubbling vibrations in hands and arms itch here and there. 2 body jerks (arms and neck).

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/12/20 8:23 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Another 45er sit today. 

Lots of itching. Stiffness and pressures mostly on the right side of body. 

I have been playing with Intention for a long while and found it to be curious and fun. 
I would Intend to pay attention to only one object. To keep the attention on seeing the spot of dirt I was looking at without loosing it or curious to see how long it takes for attention to shift to something else. I've made a short vid afterwards just to demonstrate it. It's a fun insight into how intention is also subject to change and that one is no control of where attention will flow. 
Here is the vid for those interested;
https://youtu.be/NGk5bNAanWE

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/12/20 8:31 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
I'm enamored of your video - and your willingness to post them in public.

Keep it up! Post all the smileys you want.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/12/20 8:46 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
emoticonemoticonemoticonemoticonemoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/13/20 8:56 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
The entire 45er session had a "familiar" feel. Lots of comparisons with last years experiences. Seems like Review as I can observe Dissolution (chilled out skin, deep outbreath, vanishing center). Lots of vibrations in the skull, like ants crawling under the skin, lots of pressures which vanish on the right side of body. The frequency in the ear is still high pitch rather than low frequency rumble. 
Anyway, speed was there and ease of noticing, then all dropped into calmer, chilled out energy. 
Still no desire to increase the sits. 
Here is a short vid I made at the end of the sit
https://youtu.be/fcoN5atRTOI

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/13/20 9:29 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
So you are Che Guebuddha? And you're, what, German? I must say, i find your screen presence strangely attractive and am filing these videos in the "defilements" category under porn.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/13/20 9:31 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Do Papa Che and Che G get along all right? I'll bring down the wrath of God on him, or you, either one, really, if you want me to. Well, I mean, I'll pray in deepened surrendered humility for an appropriate smiting, if it be Thy will.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/13/20 9:48 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Yes Che Guebuddha here. Something strange happened with my original account. I had no reply options. Admin couldn't fix the issue so we agreed I open a new account. 

Shall I do the videos in nude? emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/13/20 9:49 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
The entire 45er session had a "familiar" feel. Lots of comparisons with last years experiences. Seems like Review as I can observe Dissolution (chilled out skin, deep outbreath, vanishing center). Lots of vibrations in the skull, like ants crawling under the skin, lots of pressures which vanish on the right side of body. The frequency in the ear is still high pitch rather than low frequency rumble. 
Anyway, speed was there and ease of noticing, then all dropped into calmer, chilled out energy. 
Still no desire to increase the sits. 
Here is a short vid I made at the end of the sit
https://youtu.be/fcoN5atRTOI

Okay, here's an interesting twist of your gift of vipassana porn to the community: I went to this 5 minute chunk, put on the headphones, and sat through it, (eyes closed, for me), treating it as if your voice were part of my own sense doors, which it was, of course. There was a fascinating interplay for me between, obviously, what you were SAYING< SAYING, and my own lag time experience of HEARING< HEARING, and the interplay between those two, with occasinal moments of room enough for something else as well from my usual 1-2-3 body-breath-word practice ("word" was you, in this exercise). Fascinating. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/13/20 10:15 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Nice one! Now realise that you are far far behind the enemy lines totally lost and the only thing you have is General Ingram's Maps which you know are accurate and you have me on the Radio (you happen to have a radio with a limitless battery).
You need to play by the rules moment to moment, matter of fact as your life depends on it! Its not easy to see clearly through the bushes around you and mapping is not clear. But you keep following instruction moment to moment , step by step and there will be a clealing at some stage where you can clearly see that terain on General Ingram's Map. Its a good reassurance that all is going well.
But you have to do this. 

Good luck. Che out.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/13/20 10:37 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Nice one! Now realise that you are far far behind the enemy lines totally lost and the only thing you have is General Ingram's Maps which you know are accurate and you have me on the Radio (you happen to have a radio with a limitless battery).

copy that, Che Actual.

You need to play by the rules moment to moment, matter of fact as your life depends on it! Its not easy to see clearly through the bushes around you and mapping is not clear. 


Che Actual, i read you five-by-five. Maps on fire, over.

But you keep following instruction moment to moment , step by step and there will be a clealing at some stage where you can clearly see that terain on General Ingram's Map. Its a good reassurance that all is going well.


Copy that, Che Actual. Aware that by-the-book is my only fucking hope. Over.


But you have to do this. 


No shit, Che Actual. Over.

Good luck. Che out.


Many thanks, Che Actual. WTF-1, over and out.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/14/20 2:36 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er today after my partenr came back from work. Handed our boy to her and went into the men-shed for some 101 Noting!

Lots of vibrations in the hands and finger tips, pulsations also. Same in the head skin. Some rushes of energy washing down or up the body but not too much. Lots of Neutral to borderline unpleasant/pleasant feelings.

There was lots of calm and no desire to speed up the noting aloud. There was more of an interest to soak into the sensations and mind states. One note per second and then speechless noticing for a second (approx), soaking into the object. There were vanishings again of the spot I stared at and the image of the room again turned to black and white 2D image. The gaze was defocused slightly and the perifery was included in the image space but the center was more pronounced than the perifery. 

When there was an itch at the back of my head it was sharp and then there was an image impression of the back of my head and here somthing rather interesting happened; the image that my eyes could see (the room) merged with the image impression of my head at the back where the itch was. Now this is new to me! Never had this happen before.

Its as those two images met in the Mind itself There was some sort of transparency to them. This lasted for very short.


Another interesting thing happened; the body felt empty as a cocoon at one stage when I experienced unpleasant sensations of hunger in the belly. Lots of vibrations in the entire skin all over the body and the only thing that was "visible" was the inside of the mouth with image impression of the teeth, tongue, spit and sensations of the Earth and Water elements in the mouth, AND there was this round hard ball in the belly where the sensations of hunger were unpleasant.

I think that was all.

I also made a short video demo ( "There is" noting method)  for our mate Tim which is already posted in his log but let it stay in here too in case someone finds it useful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhw0S-yWCjA 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/14/20 3:48 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:


I also made a short video demo ( "There is" noting method)  for our mate Tim which is already posted in his log but let it stay in here too in case someone finds it useful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhw0S-yWCjA 

The video is primo styled to a slow and gentle ease into noting practice, and i have a testimony of it, i found Jesus immediately, then I found the Buddha, then Lao Tzu, then Papa-ji himself, who told me to calm the fuck down, and let those guys get on with their business.

Seriously, for someone like me, this is the first-grader's edition of Vipassana scripture. "There is Dick . . . There is Dick's dog Spot. . .  There is seeing Spot run . . . There is hearing Spot bark," and again, at a generously, rich, slow pace that doesn't blow your mind and leaves room for actual enjoyment, curiously, and the joy of investigation. A gift, Thanks Papa Che.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/14/20 3:58 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
If Warner Bros ever comes to release these videos of mine YOU will write the FOREWORD for it emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/14/20 4:46 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
There is no particular way that meditation should look like. I often meditate while going about my daily business. I like that I can meditate during job meetings. That makes them more productive. It's great that you have found a practice that you love. It seems to work well for you. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/14/20 5:02 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
If Warner Bros ever comes to release these videos of mine YOU will write the FOREWORD for it emoticon 


Actually, I may be on Warner Bros black list, but that's a story for another time. emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/14/20 5:08 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
There is no particular way that meditation should look like. I often meditate while going about my daily business. I like that I can meditate during job meetings. That makes them more productive. It's great that you have found a practice that you love. It seems to work well for you. 

It might work well for anyone really. It's observing thisness without being torn up by hindrances. 

Sure thing, Satipatthana in all positions and situations. Love this sport emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/14/20 5:17 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Yeah, I know. I have done some of it. I just don't love it the way you do. Like Chris, I find it grounding, though. I have always preferred letting awareness do its own thing without so much active involvement, when available. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/14/20 5:47 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Yeps I did that letting awareness do its thing during my 2 years of Shamatha and it led me all the way to DN. Then all went to a shit storm and I lost it. Stopped practicing for years until I mastered enough courage to plunge again into it all but equipped with freestyle noting aloud. 

Shamatha was fine during initial stages and was Super Cool during A&P but in DN it failed utterly. I simply did not know what was my head and what the tail. 

This Noting stuff is just hammering each and every moment no falling pray to hidrances bleeding in. 

I find it being so apt at following the stream of consciousness without laps throughout the sit. 
I find this aspect being the most important of all. 

But that's just me. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/15/20 9:00 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off the cushion;
agitation, short tamper, desire to practice. Can't notice any body pains. 

Will sit as soon my partner comes from work. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/15/20 1:06 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Sit started with rather diffused eye sight. Open eyes as always, room turned into a black and white 2 D picture and all was included but the image could be dissected into the VERY Center (a dirt spot on the beehive box infrot of me), a wide not so diffused circular area (2-3 meters in diameter) and perifery that was more diffused than the rest. Center was vanishing and fast re-appearing. The whole image of the room was vibrating, as there were pixels. There was picture jerking, like somthing shook it. (NOTE, this is not chronological, blame my goldfish memory for that).

Lots of vibration in the hands and arms and legs this time too but not as much as in the hands. Itching that d occur was around the crown chakra area and was sharp then fast turning into crowling ants and bubbling up. 

The whole session was mostly Neutral in feel and there was lots of Spaceness feel in the head-space mostly behind the eyes. There was some effort but this effort vanished every so often. There was sense of no-dirrection and slow noting but more intimacy with the objects which were not crazy clear at times.

Kind of a silent witness of that wild bouncing attention from object to object. It was more about the non controlable bouncing attention rather than the objects themselves it seems. A question "who is experiencing this?" also arouse a few times. No answer though. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/16/20 8:45 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Sat a 45er. 


Kind of a silent witness of that wild bouncing attention from object to object. It was more about the non controlable bouncing attention rather than the objects themselves it seems. A question "who is experiencing this?" also arouse a few times. No answer though. 

Damn it, man, we come here for answers!
emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/16/20 10:30 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Yeps I did that letting awareness do its thing during my 2 years of Shamatha and it led me all the way to DN. Then all went to a shit storm and I lost it. Stopped practicing for years until I mastered enough courage to plunge again into it all but equipped with freestyle noting aloud. 

Shamatha was fine during initial stages and was Super Cool during A&P but in DN it failed utterly. I simply did not know what was my head and what the tail. 

This Noting stuff is just hammering each and every moment no falling pray to hidrances bleeding in. 

I find it being so apt at following the stream of consciousness without laps throughout the sit. 
I find this aspect being the most important of all. 

But that's just me. 

Hello, your story looks similiar to mine.Can you please give more information how samatha led to DN, what did you experenice during DN and how noting method saved your practice ?

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/16/20 10:47 AM as a reply to yves tumor.

Hello, your story looks similiar to mine.Can you please give more information how samatha led to DN, what did you experenice during DN and how noting method saved your practice ?



bon jour, messieur tumor! Welcome to the Dharma Overground (DhO, in local shorthand, though by the DN it appears your have a certain fluency already in the dialect of the tribe).

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/16/20 2:32 PM as a reply to yves tumor.
Hi there!

I pracitced Shamatha as Calm-abiding, calming the body with each in and outbreath, whole body breathing rather than only focus on one spot. At that time I knew NOTHING about the 16 stages of insight.

My practice started as usually they start; not that easy to sit, lots of pain, lots of stiffness, lots or body jerks until one day (6 months into the practice) "my" Mind literally fell off far far into the background still rumbling and mumbling but very far away, and what was Here in this moment was clear open awareness in the body with its sensations. After that meditaion wnt on fire. I thought this thing is the best thing in the world and EVERYONE should do it! emoticon

This period of easy and long daily meditations went on for a quiet a bit and I felt like a Mighty meditator.

Then one lovely day all went to shit (excuse my french) and I totally lost my Ultra Concentration, my breath was gone and I started to PANIC! I tried everything but failed utterly and I was this Not-so-mighty meditator any longer and I had NO CLUE what was going on and no one could tell me anything about it.

So I continued to practice Shamatha anyway and could find the breath at times but there was so much negativity in me I just could not understand what happened with all that joyful bliss I had before. And I was so good at this joyful bliss emoticon

Then one internet friend who practiced Zen told me about DhO and Ingrams book MCTB. It was the first edition in 2011. Read through it and found where I was but I simply could not get used to that dry uncool noting vipassana so I resumed Shamatha and this led to an eraly EQ I assume because I REALLY LIKED IT and wanted to keep it, to stay in that state as it was sooo lovely compared to DN crap. 
This of course led right back to RE-observation with vengance and I rolled up the mat never to return to meditation again ... this was in 2012 october I think.


... lots of bleedthrough during several years of no practice ... many people hurt ... me hurt ... lost ... more lost ... 

start of last year got sick and tired of it all and realised there is no way back to life as I knew it before the meditation and the ONLY WAY is going back to practice, forward! After watching Kenneth Folks freestyle noting videos I decided I try that as noting is also what Ingram describes but I felt really like shit and needed somthing that is very efficient in cutting down those hindrances very fast. Noting Aloud as suggested by Kenneth Folk did exactly that and more. EDIT; I forgot to mention that Kenneth was kind enough to work with me over skype for 5-6 months, providing guidance.

During my old Shamatha there would always be periods of some daydreaming, even if about the practice it self but the mindfulness continuity was not as constant as in Noting Aloud. I am a very visual and audible personality (art painter and musician) so for me having eyes open and hearing my voice constanly which was also conected with the actual object observed was really a game changer. 
Now I can say ; I did really sit for 45 minutes and practiced. During shamatha days I could sit for longer periods but not sure I was always awake. I would be rather in some joy/bliss chiling out or some narrative about the practice itselfbut also mindful of course.

Thats about it. I hope I gave you the answer you hoped for.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/16/20 2:53 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Wow, thank you for this, and thank you yves for the question that drew this out of him. Beautiful.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Video log
Answer
4/16/20 3:00 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er about 3 hours ago now rather tired so let me see if i can recollect all thats been going on ...

Started sit with usual noting speed , not fast not slow, steady. Calm, some pressure in belly, a few sharp itches truning into small vibration pools, no body stiffness, all rather mellow, some sort of sadness around the eyes, images and thoughts about this forum and its people, good ammount of absorbtion as I usually rest my open eyes on one object, then Noting ALOUD stopped! Mouth was shut and there was silent inner voice labeling gently, not even each object noticed, attention at work ... concentration strong but wide ... questions "who is sitting, who is aware, who is seeing, who is hearing, who is ..." came about very often at this stage and each time it would happen when the eyes would see the Nose (that blured blub you see that is your nose you know), or rather  when attention fell on that eye-nose.

Then the Noting went Aloud again but very Fast, whisper like not loud and the wording could not cope with the speed of noticing so it all sounded rather mantra-like. Slowed down again. Lots of attention on the hearing, especially the natural high pitch in the ears.

Im seeing more of this mindfulness of attention, where there is this curiosity to see when attention leaves and object and jumps on another. Would usually go very fast between 3-5 objects , bounce bounce bounce. 

I think thats all. Last night could not fall asleep until 2 in the night. Hope to sleep better tonight.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/16/20 4:07 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:


Then one lovely day all went to shit (excuse my french) and I totally lost my Ultra Concentration, my breath was gone and I started to PANIC! I tried everything but failed utterly and I was this Not-so-mighty meditator any longer and I had NO CLUE what was going on and no one could tell me anything about it.

So I continued to practice Shamatha anyway and could find the breath at times but there was so much negativity in me I just could not understand what happened with all that joyful bliss I had before. And I was so good at this joyful bliss emoticon

Then one internet friend who practiced Zen told me about DhO and Ingrams book MCTB. It was the first edition in 2011. Read through it and found where I was but I simply could not get used to that dry uncool noting vipassana so I resumed Shamatha and this led to an eraly EQ I assume because I REALLY LIKED IT and wanted to keep it, to stay in that state as it was sooo lovely compared to DN crap. 
This of course led right back to RE-observation with vengance and I rolled up the mat never to return to meditation again ... this was in 2012 october I think.


... lots of bleedthrough during several years of no practice ... many people hurt ... me hurt ... lost ... more lost ... 

start of last year got sick and tired of it all and realised there is no way back to life as I knew it before the meditation and the ONLY WAY is going back to practice, forward! After watching Kenneth Folks freestyle noting videos I decided I try that as noting is also what Ingram describes but I felt really like shit and needed somthing that is very efficient in cutting down those hindrances very fast. Noting Aloud as suggested by Kenneth Folk did exactly that and more. EDIT; I forgot to mention that Kenneth was kind enough to work with me over skype for 5-6 months, providing guidance.

Looking back on the hellishness of the dark night years, how do see see that period now?

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/16/20 4:21 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Funny you ask this emoticon ... I havent really thought about it ... let me see ...

... it seems a bit like another life. Like a memory. There is compassion for all those going through such experience. There is wish to be of service to those who walk this path. There is gratefulness to those who teach this Dhamma. 

... and one word keeps popping up constantly so I will not exclude it; ACCEPTANCE. 

I'm sincere.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/16/20 4:41 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Funny you ask this emoticon ... I havent really thought about it ... let me see ...

... it seems a bit like another life. Like a memory. There is compassion for all those going through such experience. There is wish to be of service to those who walk this path. There is gratefulness to those who teach this Dhamma. 

... and one word keeps popping up constantly so I will not exclude it; ACCEPTANCE. 

I'm sincere.

Chris said, answering his own question on what meditative practice allows us to bring to this world wide crisis: patience, and acceptance. Are there really two of you?

Thanks, Papa-ji.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/17/20 11:00 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Very heavy, unpleasant sit with lots of uncertainty. Very heavy breathing, short in breaths which were unpleasant. The body at bum region was so heavily glued to the chair as if gravity was pulling it down really hard. Same feeling for the in breath. 
preassure in the lower lungs likely diaphragm. 

Clarity of sensations was rather there but uncertainty about how they exactly are unpleasant was unclear. Pain on the right side of lower back remained unpleasant and stiff-like throughout. 

Made a short vid at the end of session to capture the feel of it. 
https://youtu.be/DG7vHSw4jD0

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/17/20 11:11 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Beautiful video, Che. Tough, tough, heartbreaking, but i think a lot of people will find this useful in their own tough spots.
emoticon I need a pure no nonsense heart emoji here.

love, t

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/17/20 11:59 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Yes. We don't really meditate to feel "better" or be  "relaxed" or "blissful" but to see stuff as Anicca, Annata and Dukkha. 

Some sits are like this others like that. 

This one was NOTHING in comparison with my last years Re-observation emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/17/20 1:07 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Just to add as my statement above is a bit off really. Nothing wrong with doing practices so to calm, relax, feel blissfull.
What I was saying is that these sits (as off the cushion too) are also subject to Impermanence, they change. We can often say "I had a shitty sit, what a lousy meditaion" or "I had a great sit, boy was this joyful". All these are just experiences subject to change. Seeing Anicca not leaving anything unchanged/solid is developing dispassion for all experiences and accepting them for what they are and be OK WITH IT.

This really can aid in really shitty situations (or even on really cool ones) as one can be assured it will change "its always darkest before the dawn" or "who flies high falls low" emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/18/20 7:52 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat another 45er. Calm session, very grounded in the heaviness of the gravity pulling the ars into chair. Sensations in legs are hardly noticable, must give it a good focus to pluck a few vibrations in the toes. There was this scanning of the legs a few time as a curious wonder. Did this as palms are really vivid in all its soft pins and needles pleasant vibrations. Mindfulness moving nicely along the attention doing its thing, bounce bounce like a little bee from one flower to the next.

At one stage I could see COLOR in the hearing of the ear frequency. The space between the ears where the noise seem to take place there was cream like colored space with some sort of combs, not like wax comb but more entagled hexa shapes in a very organic cave that was light cream This was in the image space (image ipression while hearing the high pitch freq).

Noting Aloud turned into a mantra-like singing at some stage and I just let it go that way and discovered that this caused some fine pleasant feeling of gladness and concentartion improved too. After the sit I thought of those who prefer Mantra recitations and how this noting aloud can be used with a singing voice and feel all that vibration in the throat and head and chest rom singing, and the rest that is being noted.
Decided to make a short demo vid and now that I see it the Mantra-like singing is not as evident as it was inside my head emoticon I really felt as there was more singing to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKZkvLkG-EI

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/19/20 8:24 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er about 4 hours ago. 

Not much to report as Im not remembering all details after playing football with my boy. 

Right now there is unpleasant stiffness in the neck, slight unpleasant agitation, some unpleasant soreness in the throat, high pitch in the ears, slight unpleasant pain in the lower back to the right and I notice jaws tensing a bit.

During sit there was noticing of the sharp vs diffused focus of the open eyes contacting objects in the room. The more it diffuses the more calmness there is and less effort as there is suddenly a bit more clarity about the object with less effort to contact them. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/19/20 10:36 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Today was the first time since I've restarted my meditation that I've felt desire to sit for the second time. 
Sat another 45 minutes now. Lots of itching, lots of crawling under my skin, vibrations on skull and hands and arms, very speedy noting to the point of my voice mumbling words. 

Open eyes. Sight turned very dark, not many eye blinking. Some vanishing, lots of unpleasantness, determination to sit, many thoughts about this or that with image impressions. Lots of heat. Hands were really vibrating. Lots of body jerks. Very loud ear frewuency (even now while I write this). Sloutchinh back. Pain in lower back (right side only).  

Felt like body was shrinking in size at some stage. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/20/20 5:22 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Just told my son something interesting when he insisted we must find that one toy he lost and got frustrated about it. 
I told him it's better to focus on playing with those toys he has in front of him instead of stressing about a toy he does not have and might even never find it. 

Good advice to apply to meditation. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/20/20 10:51 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
sat a 45er

Very strong high ear frequency throughout (on the verge of being unpleasant). Itching on several spots at once, changing, vanishing. Hands vibrating pleasant. pain in lower back (also vanishing in a pulsating way). body jerks not often, one every so often. preassure on the right side of head. posture slouching. a few sharp pains in muscles, leg and arm. some jerkiness between intention to note fast or slow and the attention on its own moving from one object to the next. Letting into what felt most natural (went with fast noting no matter the details off each sensation/mental state). Hands touching did have LOTS of vibratory details, pins and needless and pulsating, this was very pleasant.
This sit was a bit more chalenging sit as the restlessness creeped in from the musslcles it seems and there was an image impression of the timer (which is out of sight). Hindrance passed fast though with the noting. Acceptance was applied.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/20/20 11:06 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Hey Che thanks for sharing, definitely feel like I can relate to some of these pain and pressure symptoms. I think you're totally right that the periods of more pain and agitation are the 'dark before dawn', so maybe a hopeful sign of a coming fruition of some kind.  Interesting that you notice them being more on one side of the body.  I have noticed the same thing (for me it's usually more in the face region/bridge of the nose and tends to be on the left side).  Wondering if you have any thoughts around why these tend to manifest more towards one side of the body?  I feel like there's some sort of internal balance at play here and the pressures occur when your inner energies are realigning -- could it be wisdom vs. concentration "the two wings of the bird"? I don't know.  It's very interesting though.  When you do reach that climax / fruition it always feels balanced across both sides.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/20/20 1:04 PM as a reply to John W.
I honestly have no clue what if anything is balancing out emoticon I do assume strongly these are all symptoms of the early insight stages. 

They suck all right emoticon but that's the name of this Vipassana game Sweet'n'Sour ball of rice, then you get a shot of Tequila and Ars kicking, then a desert a flat pancake with fragments of all that tequila puking on top of it and the lights out emoticon 

Honestly I try not to ponder anymore what is happening for what reason. It's happening, so far I know, and I'm not moving away from the point of Thisness. At least while I practice. Off cushion I do allow attention to freely soar the vast sky of awareness like a white beautiful pidgeon ready to drop a large poo on top of the one admiring it! emoticon (this one is for Tim FF) 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/20/20 3:28 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Yeah, that's wise. Whatever happens is gonna happen and work itself out the way it needs to... eventually. (Or at least - I feel like it's good to think that it will). Just fun sometimes to speculate about these things IMO... 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/20/20 3:40 PM as a reply to John W.
Specualting is fine as long it is Observed and Noted emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/20/20 3:54 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Just remembering that I will face old age, sickness and death and nothing can change that. No matter what I do I have already lost. What I can do is walk the path of the noble warriors and face the stream of samsara heads on! No retreat in the face of unavoidable defeat!

... sits down ... brings mindfulness to the fore ... noticing ... seeing ... hearing ... tasting ... smelling ... sensing ... cognising ... feeling ... 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/21/20 11:36 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er but could have gone longer as the speed and ease of the practice went up 3-fold. 
Absorption was VERY strong. Strongest so far. In the visuals the whole room (eyes open as always) turned very dark and the perifery was not clear, almost totally black or very dark grey but the center of the room where I was staring at was clearer but also dark (color vanished utterly). The spot (no larger than 2cm) where I stared at was vanishing and re-appearing. The ear frequency was very VERY high pitch and loud but not unpleasant.

Actually nothing was really unpleasant, maybe a bit numb hardness where ars bones meet the cair but thats all.

The speed of the noting voice really fired up. I tried to calm it down a bit but it felt forced so I let it go and indeed there was more clarity when it was noting fast then when I would force it to slow down so I let it loose.
Words were more of a mumbling and many of the notings could not even be vocalised as the speed of noticing was faster than the mouth could say it. This is fine.

Throughout the absorption there was constant awareness of everything around and inside Lots of vibrations in the hands, arms, and lots of vibrations in the head, throat and arms and chest from vocalising. Awareness of the sitting posture was always there. 

This was indeed a very fine balance between absorption and vipassana ... awakeness dare I say.

Im not mapping this as Dissolution as in dissolution the center is not there Sure this tiny spot was vanishing but the periphery of the vision (the whole room that can be seen) was dark and unclear. Also here the speed was very fast and not chilled but rather on fire and very hot spots here and there could be felt. Concentration was very strong which was not the feel in Dissolution.

I say its 3C , likely the end of it as the pains are not really there. Will see how the body feels later and tomorrow after I wake up.

Here is a short video I captured immediatelly after the 45 minute sit so to get that feel on tape. I also commented a bit at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgVW9PS9zlA

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/21/20 2:45 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off cushion lots of neck stiffness, very high pitch frequency in the erars and general edginess. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/22/20 11:18 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. (intro); half an hour before the sit I had a rather stressful situation. My 4yo son decied to hit our cat. I entered the room at that exact time, meaning he hit her knowing Im not there to see it. We have been telling him since he started crawling to be nice and only pet our cat and our dog. Any way, when he realised that I saw him in action he just gave me that evil smile. He actually enjoyed hitting her while she was eating her food. So I freaked and with rather high voice asked him why he did it? he just kept smiling. ... Any way, after me telling him that there will be consequences for this and then some crying we said sorry to each other and to the animals.

Then I went to do my daily 45 minutes session. 

Lots of body jerks, high pitch in the ears, pain in the right side of the back (middle of the back, ribs). Stiff neck, lots of thinking about the situation with my son. Saddness (sense of tearing around the eys), worry, forgivness, worry, self-pitty.
Some absorption via the visuals, room turning dark (loosing color) and the spot I stare at vanishing a few times. For the first time I noticed Purple mist surrounding the spot I stare at (spot is just a dirt on the beehive thats standing infront of me). This mist was dynamic/moving and it would vanish.

Right now after the sit there is an unpleasant preassure in the solar plexsus, stiff neck, high pitch in ears, sadness-tearing around the eyes, worry, snese of failure/self-pitty.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/23/20 4:45 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er today. Too tired now to log and nothing much to tell. Very similar to above ... 

Tomorrow might be the first day without sitting since I've re-started the practice. Family schtuff in da way.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/25/20 7:09 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er today and the practice took some interesting dirrection. I even made a short vid to demonstrate how it went.

NOTE; did not practice yesterday but something interesting happened in the sleep. Seems like I was mindful of a dream, seeing the dream images as separate frames, cut up and each frame would freeze for a short moment and then the next frame would move in and freeze and so on. It certainly felt like practice! This I never experienced before.

Onto today's practice;
Started with noting, very layed back, relaxed, calm. Freestye Noting Aloud kind of took a different route this time and started focusing on the Seeing Space (eye space) and there was this clear comprehanding of the space between the Noticer/Knower of this experience and the Objects and from this came about self-enquiery "where is this Noticer" The arising objects seemed either just up front or just behind or bellow or to the side but the Noticer was clearly not there as it was the Noticer Noting all the objects. 

It was not in the ears either, nor in the tactile sensations, nor in the soreness in the throat, nor in the itch ... I was tracking that distance between the Object and Noticer this distance and spacial position would always lead back to the eyes and not even behind it but at the very contact with the eye. All behind would be but the Image feel. 

This reminded me of what Kenneth Folk calls The 3 Speed Transmission; 
1. Gear - Noting
2. Gear - Who Am I (or in my case where is this I or Noticer)
3. Gear - Just Surrender

I know the 1st gear well but never really felt that 2nd Gear as clear as today. This is new and Im now ore interested in the 3 Speed Transmission that KF talks about. There could be something there in his triangulating between Mahasi-Zen-Mahamudra approaches.
I like this. 

Here is the video demo but please do excuse my narrative as its not as clear in describing especially at the start of the noting self-enquiery into "where is this Noticer". I say sa it was "down there". What I meant is it is NOT down there, what was down there is the Object/Sensation AWAY from the sense of Noticer which always seem to be in the eyes or slightly behind the eyes but certainly not much as in the background there is more of a Image sense to it. So even there, there would be a distance from the "Noticer" and the Image in the brain. This will be interesting to practice some more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S3R-O9JxzA



RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/25/20 8:12 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Sat a 45er today and the practice took some interesting dirrection. I even made a short vid to demonstrate how it went.

Onto today's practice;
Started with noting, very layed back, relaxed, calm. Freestye Noting Aloud kind of took a different route this time and started focusing on the Seeing Space (eye space) and there was this clear comprehanding of the space between the Noticer/Knower of this experience and the Objects and from this came about self-enquiery "where is this Noticer" The arising objects seemed either just up front or just behind or bellow or to the side but the Noticer was clearly not there as it was the Noticer Noting all the objects. 

It was not in the ears either, nor in the tactile sensations, nor in the soreness in the throat, nor in the itch ... I was tracking that distance between the Object and Noticer this distance and spacial position would always lead back to the eyes and not even behind it but at the very contact with the eye. All behind would be but the Image feel. 

This reminded me of what Kenneth Folk calls The 3 Speed Transmission; 
1. Gear - Noting
2. Gear - Who Am I (or in my case where is this I or Noticer)
3. Gear - Just Surrender

I know the 1st gear well but never really felt that 2nd Gear as clear as today. This is new and Im now ore interested in the 3 Speed Transmission that KF talks about. There could be something there in his triangulating between Mahasi-Zen-Mahamudra approaches.
I like this. 

Here is the video demo but please do excuse my narrative as its not as clear in describing especially at the start of the noting self-enquiery into "where is this Noticer". I say sa it was "down there". What I meant is it is NOT down there, what was down there is the Object/Sensation AWAY from the sense of Noticer which always seem to be in the eyes or slightly behind the eyes but certainly not much as in the background there is more of a Image sense to it. So even there, there would be a distance from the "Noticer" and the Image in the brain. This will be interesting to practice some more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S3R-O9JxzA


The video is marvelous, just such a lucid ride-along-with the inquiry. Sorting it out by relative direction, below, above, left, is so simple, but the reality of something making such distinctions without giving away its own location builds in awareness, not-this, not-here, that is there, where is here? How fascinating that one session like that could lead to you being able to relate to the full idea of the three-speed transmission, giving you experiential marks for 1 and 2, and i'll bet you're done plenty in third gear in other vehicles, on other courses and roads. Wonderful to be able to watch this all unfold.

You have such a sweet and gentle voice for these, too. I'm telling you Papa-ji, we could get rich on this shit, with the right marketing. There's a sucker born every minute, and there is still a huge untapped audience of spiritual suckers already milling around. We settled on 1% for me, right? I mean, if you're going to haggle, fine, I'll go as low as 0. I might pay you 1%, if you twist my arm. But not a penny less.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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4/25/20 9:12 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
1% is fine damn it! 

"giving you experiential marks for 1 and 2, and i'll bet you're done plenty in third gear in other vehicles, on other courses and roads."

Interesting what you say here. I never thought of this but during my Ki-breathing time and later Shamatha I might have touched on some 3rd Gear too, in a more experiential way. During the Ki-breathing I did get all the way to 5th Samatha Jhana of Infinite Space but had no knowledge about Jhanas. I only knew it felt utterly safe. I've never experienced so much safety as in that state. Nothing bad could happen in that vast space and that tiny sense of self in the center of it all was the one experiencing this. This could have been part of that 3rd Gear but I had no knowledge of Vipassana/Investigation then. 
Actually it looks more like 2nd Gear to investigate that tiny sense of self in that Infinite Space. Dunno. Matters not. All I really have is what is right here. 

My Path is a jerky one. Jumping to some higher states then dropping down into dark deep shit emoticon It's an upside down Path! It is what it is. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/26/20 5:18 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er

Started with noting aloud but quickly the aloud voice was staying in the way of clearly investigating the high frequency pitch in the ear which this time was accompanied by a low rumbbling frequency that felt unpleasant.

Stiff neck to the right and stiff low back to the left. Preassure on top of the head. Unpleasant lower fequency inn the ear (so there are two independent frequencies at work here one above one bellow the musical scale).

So I stopped noting aloud and let go into the silent noting;

eyes open as per usual. The image of the room turned dark again but this time it was more of a Violet to this dark (I dare use Ingram's term "murk" here). This room certainly was not "over there" but "in here" as the colors of the room were changing and the objects were vibrating and flickering. The spot I stared at was vansihing again. Thoughts about this and that came about, somethign about practice and even this forum.
I've let go of even the silent noting and just noticed what was and let the absorption take place and see where that goes. Visual image of the room was flickering, the hearing was composed of 2 different pitch frequencies that seem slightly "pixelated", sensations in the two hands where flickering vibrations of the warm and wet quality and all where perceieved by that "something" in the very same "space" I could not find. All of this experience, no matter which one of them seem to spring into consciousness simultaniously. Something in there seems to slice all these experiences into "one at a time" so to make sense out of it maybe? ... I dunno. 

Felt enough of this shamatha based stuff and returned to noting aloud but with a low volume voice and gentle pace (likely last 5 mintes of practice).

Still feel that hang-over from this absorption. I have noticed eyelids not really blinking much during this session. This was not an issue or unpleasant.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
4/26/20 5:36 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
1% is fine damn it! 

Done deal. I will mail you the first check as soon as i get some cash flow going here.

My Path is a jerky one. Jumping to some higher states then dropping down into dark deep shit

emoticon

It's an upside down Path! It is what it is. 


It's a beautiful, beautiful ride, and your jerky path in all its horrific acrobatics is a joy to behold.

love, t

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/26/20 12:40 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.

"I'm probably biased, but I found that I made more progress by really settling into meditation and letting the mind itself decide when to do jhana and when to do noting. If my mind was clearly in jhana, I would allow it to condition my mind and when I was in a vague or more busy mind state, I would gently note. I would drop noting again if I fell back into jhana. - by Shargrol "


This is interesting and something I can connect to my latest experience in meditation. Seem to get into Jhanas after just a few breaths and Noting becomes Effort and kind of "not really needed" so I let the mind just ride the Jhana instead and let go of noting or just gently keep nothing. Thanks shargrol! (found it on one link in another post on DhO, some blog on the net)


RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/27/20 6:32 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off cushion vast amount of emotional irritability. Lots of low mumbling frequency in ears, unpleasant. Preassure in head, around eyes. The eyes tend to go into slight de-focus. 
Stiil some stiffness in the neck but no pain. Back pain also subsided a bit. 

All this irritability seems to come from sensory overflow that enters through the sense of hearing. Mind finds it hard to focus on the sounds and words. 

Short inbreath and long heavy outbreath. Feels relaxing.  Coolness on skin. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/27/20 6:36 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:

"I'm probably biased, but I found that I made more progress by really settling into meditation and letting the mind itself decide when to do jhana and when to do noting. If my mind was clearly in jhana, I would allow it to condition my mind and when I was in a vague or more busy mind state, I would gently note. I would drop noting again if I fell back into jhana. - by Shargrol "


This is interesting and something I can connect to my latest experience in meditation. Seem to get into Jhanas after just a few breaths and Noting becomes Effort and kind of "not really needed" so I let the mind just ride the Jhana instead and let go of noting or just gently keep nothing. Thanks shargrol! (found it on one link in another post on DhO, some blog on the net)


Yeah, that Shargrol guy is something. I wouldn't necessarily believe he really exists, except that he laughed at a joke of mine once, and then told a good one of his own. He joke, ergo He is..

I had a vaguely similar thing this morning myself, after a solid run of my peculiar mantra work, the internal vocalization just felt laborious, just too damned m uch work, and i let it go and let the breath and body just do what they wanted to do and say what they wanted to say.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/27/20 3:40 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Dont really feel like updating this log of mine today emoticon ah that annoying Jhana afterglow (aka hangover). 

Sat a 45er.

Started with Noting Aloud and it went rather moderate, no effort needed there was just clarity, tap, tap, tap, one after the other they arise and pass away. Was able to notice slight shake (as when changing slide show picture, snap, new picture but you could see that snap for just a tiny part fo the second) in eye sight image which had something to do with the two unknown events (pulses or dips) of the outbreath ... then after maybe 5 minutes all energy kind of sank down and there was interest in the pleasant warmth of the hands cupped together, the soft, cushion like warmth, very fine velvety vibratons, felt really great and cozy. The noting voice was too loud so there was natural decrease in volume and I threw away the plectrum and continued to play finger style, with a much softer attack of the skin against the strings, so to hear all the dynamics of the arising and passing notes of the phenomenal experience.
I let go into this absorbed state with soft noting still going on but very much laid back.

Then after I have noticed those proto-thoughts that @agnostic mentioned but after catching them a few times realised they were proto-images that never formed fully. As I was dropping into Dissolution (maybe I should really call it 3rd Jhana) and all room got dark/black and white (eyes open, not much blinking this time) and center started vanishing I was more leaning towards thinking those proto-images were just the vanishing aspect rather than images not developing into arising. So these proto-thoughts @agnostic mentioned may be vanishing thoughts as one can only see the tail of it and not the whole thought as its already gone when we notice it. Dunno, just somthing I observed and could not have anything to do with those real proto-thoughts.

During the absorbtion there were some ponderings in form of a guilt for not just plowing through this mind-stuff with full blown Noting Aloud instead of this Jhana stuff but I just observed that guilt and resistance and noted them as thinking and unpleasant as there would be some hardness forming in the upper belly/solar plexsus. Almost like hunger pain, Hungry Ghosts realm maybe.

During the absorbtion the silent noting was taking place and in that laid back position I played a bit with "in seeing there is only the seen, refering back to no one". I took this literally! emoticon Ok! Word for word and this is what I saw;
Seeing (action of seeing, awareness of the sense door, that space around the eyes), the Seen (the object, leading to coprehanding it) and then when I waited to see to whom does this refer back to ... there was just this "waiting" in which moment I would also notice some other body sensations not related to the seeing game. In that "waiting" there was this sense of attention coming back to the eye space as there seems to be the point off that consciousness space.

After a while I expanded this "meassuring" of the distance between noted objects and the sense where this center might be it would always return to the eye space. The ear frequency is always in the center of the head (might be a bit to left and right also) but a bit down and further back from that center that seems in the eyes (is this the eye sense consciousness?). The crawly vibration in the skull would be above or to the side or at the back of that conscious knowing, again coming back to the eye space.

Off cushion there was some hangover and some agitation.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/27/20 4:27 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Che! I tried freestyle noting aloud for the first time today. I haven't really done much noting in recent years - more freestyle attention to whatever arises, just without the noting. I mainly use a note when something seems particularly sticky and challenging to cut through. But I was curious about how noting out loud changes the dynamic, combined with having eyes open. It does! ALOT. It gets confusing to get in a flow for a bit because when I have used noting I'm so used to it being subvocalization, so it threw me off a bit to hear it out loud. But when you get into a flow a bit, it seems more effective than inner voice noting at cutting through thoughts and stories and feelings in some way. What I found more difficult about noting aloud with eyes open was catching mental images, obviously because the visual field has the apperance of having more data to navigate. But really, that gets interspersed with all the other data points, so it's not as constant/solid as it appears anyway. Either way, it seems like there is less visual information when eyes are closed, but only because flashes of mental imaginations seem more subtle and quick I suppose.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/27/20 4:56 PM as a reply to Steph S.
Nice emoticon Yeah I rememebr when I first look at it and thought "gawd no, not this uncool chatter" but lemme tell you if you havent tried it you really dont get to know it. 

About the mental images tho emoticon I have plenty in form of ANTICIPATION about something or even when I HEAR somthing like a bird chirping and there is this image of a bird on a tree or our chimney (of which I cant see any of). I hear a crackling noise and there is this ASSUMPTION that its a RAT (image of a rat in some corner of this room I meditate in ... we live in a counrty side and rats and mice are normal thing here if you keep your doors open for too long).

I even experienced recently Image of the room I look at MERGING in the mind with an image of an ANTICIPATION I think it was but certainly a mind image. Well emoticon both of these images ARE in FACT in the MIND emoticon Right? emoticon I mean this room I look at is percieved in the brain and not in the eye or worse outside of the eye emoticon 

I think its a very engaging weapon this Noting Aloud is and keeps one really on the toes without laps in mindfulness which I think is of more importance at some stages than going too deep into each sensation (which is also needed at some other stages). 

But its fun stuff allright! Glad you are enjoying it! I seem to be more sinking down (or is it up) into Jhana stuff as of late for some reason. All good.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/27/20 6:28 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Nice emoticon Yeah I rememebr when I first look at it and thought "gawd no, not this uncool chatter" but lemme tell you if you havent tried it you really dont get to know it. 

About the mental images tho emoticon I have plenty in form of ANTICIPATION about something or even when I HEAR somthing like a bird chirping and there is this image of a bird on a tree or our chimney (of which I cant see any of). I hear a crackling noise and there is this ASSUMPTION that its a RAT (image of a rat in some corner of this room I meditate in ... we live in a counrty side and rats and mice are normal thing here if you keep your doors open for too long).

I even experienced recently Image of the room I look at MERGING in the mind with an image of an ANTICIPATION I think it was but certainly a mind image. Well emoticon both of these images ARE in FACT in the MIND emoticon Right? emoticon I mean this room I look at is percieved in the brain and not in the eye or worse outside of the eye emoticon 

Yea, these little phantom images are a trip. Somehow phantom or ghost seems appropriate in how I think about them. They're wispy, almost translucent, really quick, and have this quality of "wait was that an image, did that really just happen?" I've sussed out that they're a reaction and way of trying to attach to or grasp what just happened. Like, there's a bare sound. Feeling tone. Mental image of what the sound was as a reaction to that.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
4/28/20 4:54 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Uh oh, I just dont feel like updating this log ... everything seems on the outbreath and heavy, the whole body is totally pulled down by the gravity it seems. Short inbreath, as if it cares not to even take that new oxygen. Eyelids not blinking much. Slightly diffused sight. Ear frequency is pitching constantly like an infinitelly sustained note (not able to hear any variations except that at times it low and at times high in volume, something to do with how strong the concentration is it seems.

Sat a 45er. Started with noting aloud and this went for at least 10 minutes I think but soon the absorbtion took place and the noting aloud was dropped. Noting silent was not needed. I let even the thoughts come and not be too concerned with them, noted or not. Pleasant vibrations in the hands did spread around the body but not to the legs (cant really feel much in the legs as of late, maybe ocassional spike in the musscles or a musscle twich and slight vibration on the toes but very very subtle).

Eyes open as per usual and the image of the Seen (the room) turned black and white again (lost all color) and the spot I stare at began to vanish again but much more clear this time. It would vanish and remain vanished for longer time than before.

There was some pondering and guilt about this Jhana stuff again. Im not certain its the best way to go with this. What if Im just wasting time by being in this Jhana stuff?! 
Am I to allow myself to have good time in meditation? Shall it be carrot or stick?! Am I to allow myself to enjoy meditation? Can it be carrot and stick?!

What is best to observe in Jhana? Mind states? Feeling tone? Body sensations? 
I mean the last thing I want to do is just hang there and Im certainly not doing that shit as Im not interested in it but I dont mind it if there are insights to be learned from them.

I just wonder if its ok to track the sense of Self when in Jhana? or else? I thought Jhana was for Gods and Vipassana for Humans! I can be a human! yes, Im feeling a bit edgy and there is a feeling of sadness too ...

What is it then? Must I really master both the Hell and the Heaven? To what end? Can I help anyone with this knowledge? Who? Gods? Hell Beings? 
Shit! Some folks desire to get into these states and I laothe them! I do remember when I first heard of them and I so desired them! I just wanted to be in those states back then. No wonder I've got hammered so baddly when I dropped into the Dissolution Nana and the rest of DN. I've lost the Heavens! Now I get the Heavens back and I dont want them! WTF?!

Ok. 

All cool.

Am I to allow myself to have good time in meditation? Both carrots and stick? Or just carrots? I ceratinly did the stick for a very several years already. 

I think I should just go to bed.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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4/29/20 11:17 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Yes, friend, you're allowed to have fun in jhana and it doesn't mean you're slacking. I'm not going to go dig up a bunch of quotes or suttas on it, but they're around and they say jhana cultivates wholesome mind states. It helps cultivate equanimity and smooths things out. Going from 1st jhana up to 8th, you can see how the mind, and other sensations, get more subtle and refined. You can see the shift from coarse to ultra fine as you go up, until in 8th there's nothing to really investigate cuz it's too incomprehensible. This is good. When I say it smooth things out, this is what I'm talking about. It makes it easier to perceive the subtle strata of mind. The layer of mind that all the coarser, louder parts of mind are drowning out. When things get more still in the formless jhanas, you can really cut through and investigate just how subtle shit gets. You can use it as an opportunity to investigate things that seem still and solid. You suddenly have access to all the background processing that you don't normally perceive. 

Something that's also super helpful is, up to 7th jhana, you can still also perceive the subtle dissatisfaction that happens all along the whole way. The arc pushes on naturally. Depending on your concentration level that particular day, it may take longer or shorter to get up the arc. When it's taking longer, there can be that nagging feeling of this could be finer, this could be more better. Or when it goes really fast it could be, this is great, I wish I could stay here longer. Even up in the formless realms I have noticed this dissatisfaction tension go back and forth between this is great and this could be better. When a bunch of other mind noise is out of the way, you can see this push-pull of craving and aversion really clearly.

Aside from all that, it's also totally okay to hang out in jhana just because it's fun. I promise every sit doesn't have to be the most productive thing ever. Enjoy the fruits of your labor once in a while and play with all the fancy mind tricks that have developed. See how pliant the mind can get. You're seasoned enough that I sincerely doubt you're going to fall off the deep end and be caught up in those golden chains, never wanting to return to vipassana again. You've seen enough in your investigations that I don't think the mind will let this happen. As shargrol told me once recently, trust the mind. The path pushes itself onward and even though it seems like you might get stuck at times, trust the process and that it will keep you on track. emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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4/29/20 11:22 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Noting aloud started and went on full on without much effort. This time I decided to stare at something different instead so the background is not the same. 

After a while that slowing down happened again but this time I also noticed Tiredness and Willingness to slow down. So I did that; slowed down the noting aloud and in a more silent way. 

Then came scenario-style image thoughts and here I've noticed noting voice consciousness doing its own thing (noting) and another consciousness scenario-spinning. Attention would be mostly on one then the other. Or maybe this was not the same attention? Dunno. The noting aloud activity was happening and then there was a seamless slip into scenario-spinning thought and the noting would likely fall into the background. Then "snap" back and rejoin the noting voice and that activity. 

So there is this "thinking activity" doing its thing and "noting aloud activity" doing its thing even if no one is there to control it by observing it. 
I could observe thinking unfolding slightly under the radar of mindfulness while noting aloud sensations, and noting voice doing its own attention paying while there was absorption into the scenario thinking. 

Ok all in all there was a bit of a dreamy feel to this sit, especially the last half of it. Not sleepiness as such but diffused wider attention which was sliding here and there. 

Again lots of pleasant vibration warmth in the hands spreading into arms and upper chest and arms. 
Absorption was not strong but still rather diffused, not sharply centered. 
My head dropped a few times and this felt a bit as when you are falling a sleep sitting and then your head drops down. Mind you I had eyes open throughout but would loose the sense of sight at times of scenario-thoughts spinning. It's as if in the act of thought spinning one becomes "blind" to the "reality". 

Frequency in the ears changed pitch suddenly and it was obvious. It's as if the first pitch was behind the door and then someone opened that door and volume went up and sound was much more clear. 

No "self-hunting" enquiery this time. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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4/30/20 2:23 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
No sit today due to family stuff. Now jaded and ready to sleep like a dead horse.

To be continued ...

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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4/30/20 2:24 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
emoticon
twice in a week, after nary a miss for years. It IS a plague!

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 3:35 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
It's terrible I know emoticon miss one sit here, one there and off you get flushed down the eternal labyrinths of ignorance.

I will slap my self twice or trice today and drag my sorry ars back to the true altar of sacrifice; my meditation chair. 

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5/1/20 3:48 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
It's terrible I know emoticon miss one sit here, one there and off you get flushed down the eternal labyrinths of ignorance.

I will slap my self twice or trice today and drag my sorry ars back to the true altar of sacrifice; my meditation chair. 

This self-mortification and abuse must cease, my beloved friend. The true altar of sacrifice is the heart, and no one's is more present everywhere, in every thing, than yours.

fer fooking Krist's sake, i was just yanking your chain. I thought you knew better. Play your fucking guitar, and post some good music in the Bar.
(edit) emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 4:51 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
" I knew better" ha! emoticon I'm dumbest dumb person of the bunch! Those who heel my advice might be actually more dumb than me emoticon 

As for music; I've sold my tube amp yesterday so I'm in the market spending countless hours in researching gear demos in hope to find that one which will satisfy the thirst of my yearning heart emoticon 


Just an off the cushion note; 
strong stiff pain in the shoulder blade area and couch potato kind of attitude. Diffused attention. Vibrations in the skull/brain as if an invincible hand is massaging the brain with its soft fingers. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 5:22 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
" I knew better" ha! emoticon I'm dumbest dumb person of the bunch! Those who heel my advice might be actually more dumb than me emoticon 


i know, i know, that's your story and you're sticking to it. Fine, i've got your six all the way. But it breaks my heart sometimes, to see you chained down by having to act stupider than you are.

emoticon
(edit) i mean, i get it. the tender humble gentle offerer of practice advice is my vipassana touchstone, and the trouble you took to make those crucial videos with me in my will always bring tears of gratitude to my eyes. And we know that the naked intensity of your actual practice "self" would scare away all but the demons of hell. So it's skillful means, upaya, state of the art. I won't undercut that. I'm just saying, i love it when you loosen up and are just that musical loving guy you are too.

(edit 2) keeping all my shit in one sack here for easy deletion if it pisses off one or more of your personas.

the thing is, i have learned, a little hard-core vipassana goes a long way with me. It's a specific effect, like my response to cannabis: two hits, and i'm gone for months. Chris was my first toke, you were my second. That's all it took, with me, i'm a lightweight, as all of my friends used to say, looking for a way to make sense of my cannibis-triggered flights. So thanks for the toke, bro. That is some good good shit.

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5/1/20 6:23 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Ok, ok. I will try and keep silent for a while here on DhO wise-guy-wise. Be more of a joke and less of a practice bloke emoticon 

Still researching if to buy a VOX AC15 amp or the new Fender Player Series Stratocaster? Hm ... ? 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 6:25 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Ok, ok. I will try and keep silent for a while here on DhO wise-guy-wise. Be more of a joke and less of a practice bloke emoticon 

Still researching if to buy a VOX AC15 amp or the new Fender Player Series Stratocaster? Hm ... ? 


don't get me wrong, man. Your practice bloke is state of the art. But it's a hat. the joker and the musician are different hats. Wear each to the appropriate venues, in all cases keeping the occasional loving eye on me, as my hats sometimes blow off, and i throw off the rest of my clothes when i go to chase the hat.

emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 7:09 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Oh I see emoticon 

Let me give you a heads up;

When I start rolling my practice and previous glories start to fade into memories , the "I" becomes rather a murky appearance, almost soldier-like, focused on the "bush" not to miss any subtle movements which could go unnoticed. 

This "I" (in the mind) can be in form of junky nocked out by the enormous Earth's gravity not being able to move towards words. Hell, I managed to write a long reply to agnostic now just to delete it. Even if I utter words there is this "heaviness" to press them into the world even if this requires touching a touch-screen emoticon 

But yes, I do read your new log No2 split by the saint of thread-splitting emoticon I simply have not much to say as you seem on top of it. God Face and all that lovely stuff emoticon I know I know, I will burn in hell for not believing in that One. Maybe one day when you get to Heavens you can find a way to pull me out of Hell?! In case you don't know how to find me follow me on YouTube and press that Like and Bell Icon too emoticonemoticon 

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5/1/20 7:33 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Oh I see emoticon 

Let me give you a heads up;

emoticon I know I know, I will burn in hell for not believing in that One. Maybe one day when you get to Heavens you can find a way to pull me out of Hell?! emoticonemoticon 
It's actually against my Bodhisattva vow to go to heaven while there is still anyone in hell--- until everyone else is in, i wouldn't go to any place likie that that would have me, the whole idea is just too cruel and fucked up. So we're stuck with each other for a spell here.

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5/1/20 8:34 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Fuck it! Being stuck in the mud is the story of my life emoticon Dunno which is worse; beeing stuck in the mud while its pouring rain or scorching sun?! I'm actually gone now to sit! Like NOW! 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 9:37 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Just sat a 45er. Noticed many "blinks" in the eye sight. Nothing to do with eyelids blinking (which did not happen that often). 

The blink in the eye sight was as there was a very fast "black out" maybe I could call it "unknown event" as I don't know what it is. It's almost like a space between frames. Happens so fast it's impossible to examin it as it almost like not-knowing it of sorts. ... dunno.

I was resting the gaze on the ladder in front of me and one of the planks/steps I stared got a halo on both sides of it. The plank itself would turn dark and its edges pitch black but changing in intensity and there was a halo (light line on each side) around it. They were dynamic. The whole room again turned dark (black and white). Open eyes as per usual of course. 

There is an open door to the left leading into another room and that room became totally black (very dark black cloud) and I could not see a single detail in there with the periferal vision. But I could see the ready of this room I'm sitting in but black and whitish. 

There was a "bang" sound and I stopped noting aloud and got fright and listened ???!!! Looked at my dog and he was calmly chilling. So the noise was maybe in my head only as he certainly would react to such strong Bang. 

There was sadness around the eyes which was more in the fashion of feeling miserable than dad. 

The absorption started after maybe 5 minutes from the start of sitting. Not once was I lost in thoughts which would arise. Sitting posture was also there as well as all the sounds. 

This sit was a bit different as I have not noticed the hearing of high pitch in the ears until much later during the sit. And yet it's a very loud pitch. 

Ok. That's enough of writing. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 9:51 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
For those of you wondering about what this "room turned black and white" means I tried to manipulate a photo to illustrate it. It's not the same as what I see which still has 3D to it but this photo shows approx what I see with open eyes. If there is a eyelid blink then the normal color returns and all murky stuff the returns. This murky sight is dynamic. Bellow this photo is the photo showing how this room looks normally. I wonder if any of you fine folks had this happen with the eyes open during meditation? 


upload a photo

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 12:09 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Quick update;

Im experiencing right now PTSD style flash-backs. Some violent stuff from decades ago. Unpleasant. All details are present. It's in the mind though. There is vibration all over the body skin. Pins and needles type. Sensations on the skull like ants under the skin. In breath and outbreath shallow. 
Something hard in the lower belly but no panic attacks. 
Coolness on skin. 
Jaw is on the ready to clench (anticipating attack). 

Cant remember exactly when I had these flashbacks last time but I'm guessing 2 years ago. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 12:23 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
 It's in the mind though.

Just reinforcing something for you to watch for -- everything is in the mind  emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 12:30 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
emoticon
It was all that hell talk, wasn't it?
That is some dark ass night, Sergeant. Carry on.


emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 12:43 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Thank you Chris. I know that but not deep enough. I'm getting a feel that no matter what we do or what we get it's ALWAYS one minuscule step behind the actual experience. This Knowing is always just 2nd hand knowledge (in the mind). 

Can't tell if Arahant can experience directly without this knowing? I mean when conscious. Or is awareness somehow in the sense doior itself without knowing? 

You can answer if you think this might be of benefit to me otherwise just ignore it. 

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5/1/20 12:45 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:
emoticon
It was all that hell talk, wasn't it?
That is some dark ass night, Sergeant. Carry on.


emoticon

Nah emoticon it's the practice and karma meeting for a wet kiss emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 12:49 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
emoticon

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5/1/20 1:27 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Can't tell if Arahant can experience directly without this knowing? I mean when conscious. Or is awareness somehow in the sense doior itself without knowing? 

Nothing about how human beings experience sensation changes. I'm assuming that's what you're asking me. If I've missed the mark, I'm happy to try again.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 2:03 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
 A quick fix I found really handy is to stare up and to the right, like watching the balconies of the first floor, the electricity cable, the top of the tries, or the line that divides the wall with the ceiling. That gives you some linear perspective (see De Chirico paintings). In NLP it's said that when looking upwards you're imagining (while if you look downwards you're remembering), and when you're looking to the right you're watching the future (while to the left, it's the past). So, "up + right" is the right combo for these situations. Do this while walking, it doesn't work that good if you are just standing, at least in the beginning. It sounds sketchy, but it works. You'll have to find how high and to the right works best for you. Better practice first with easier stress factors, in order to be ready for the bigger ones. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 3:10 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Can't tell if Arahant can experience directly without this knowing? I mean when conscious. Or is awareness somehow in the sense doior itself without knowing? 

Nothing about how human beings experience sensation changes. I'm assuming that's what you're asking me. If I've missed the mark, I'm happy to try again.

Its likely Im the one who missed the mark emoticon Thank you.

Ok. So there is this practice and through it there is knowing of how flickeirng all these sensations, mind states and feelings are.This leads to dispassion/disenchantment. The same I quess applies to the Knower/Owner sense of this experience once its seen as flickering sub-selves (alert!!!!! Kenneth talks about "lenses" changing).

If Im getting your reply above then ALL is exactly the same when it comes to experiencing sensations, except there is this disillusionment with these sub-selves/lenses and seeing this there is no one there anymore to go through time claming This Is My Experience. If that sense of I is no more solid and is actually seen (not believed in but actually seen for what it is, flickering and ever chaging just like the itch on the nose) for what it is then there is some kind of "falling away" happening to the Belief of Self and that leads to the tipping point.

Or;
There simply is no sense of self in the moment of Profound Satipatthana, in THIS. This can be experienced anytime during this practice. If so then what is that urge that say "this moment is not good enough, there must be some better experience down the line". Could this urge become solid force of action just because mindfulness has lapsed? In this case going to the gym and training in Mindfulness more is the way. Like; shut up and keep it simple stupid, Ars on the cushion and keep watching.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/1/20 3:26 PM as a reply to Pepe.
Pepe:
 A quick fix I found really handy is to stare up and to the right, like watching the balconies of the first floor, the electricity cable, the top of the tries, or the line that divides the wall with the ceiling. That gives you some linear perspective (see De Chirico paintings). In NLP it's said that when looking upwards you're imagining (while if you look downwards you're remembering), and when you're looking to the right you're watching the future (while to the left, it's the past). So, "up + right" is the right combo for these situations. Do this while walking, it doesn't work that good if you are just standing, at least in the beginning. It sounds sketchy, but it works. You'll have to find how high and to the right works best for you. Better practice first with easier stress factors, in order to be ready for the bigger ones. 

Thanks Pepe for the info. I will try next time I walk through our little forest garden but honestly Im the one looking after our little boy because of this Corona stuff his kindergarden is locked so he is always with me and we play a lot. Im fortunate to have an understanding partner who is ok with me going for a quick 45 minutes sit after she finishes work and then we do dinner and social family stuff. If I can do it on the cushion its ok otherwise it must wait until I have more time for this chasing of expereinces. Im more for a "comes and goes" style meditation, like vipassana and if attention suddenly goes to the sense of a wacher I look at it and the perception of distance form "it" to the next arising sensation. Still to do look at the distance between the sense of watcher/knower/noticer and the feeling tone and mind state. Sensations are much easier to see in this regard.

Its ok if this takes slow development or even the remaing part of my life. Im in no hurry. Im kind of getting more and more warmed up to Dogens idea of Practice-Realisation being one and the same. There can be resistance to this but that too is part of the practice-realisation.

Im tired now and shall switch off for the day. Take care and thank you

(I will try and place the eyes as you suggested while on the cushion and see what it does during my regular sit as I will keep on with noting aloud as per usual while the eyes are staring right+up. This could be interesting as I have fellt the urge to Always focus the eyes on a spot that is well centered with the body, infront and a bit down or a bit up. A bit to right or to left causes unbalanced feel and unpleasant. Will be interesting to test this while doing noting. )

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/2/20 12:31 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er.

Laid backpace, slower noting aloud with more emphasis on going into the object. Still relaxed body. Awareness of sitting posture was present with ease. noticing of eye space was there and so was some unclear relation between it and the brain space above it, a bit inside, above but not too much t the back. This space felt unclear in sense of no control and I felt ... whats the word dis..... something, when you cant locate anyone in there, when the "you" is a kind of lost and kind find dirrection but there was no "me" ... cant remeber the bloody word.

There was again these "blips" or "blinks" in the eye/sight space as if the image changes fast like on the power point presentation. This would take place when the eye lids would not blink much. It really has that "unkown event" like feels to it.

Ear frequency was present without much change to it except in volume changing at times.

Thoughts were mosty in the image space rather than narrative.

Absorption took place after some time but I let go of it by opening the eyes some more and sharpening the gaze. Less diffusion in the eye sight and the absorption would diminish.Still it came back in as soon the eye sight would get wider and diffused so I let it stay and do its thing. Similar room image where colors seems to go into dark image in the mind (open eyes). This image is dynamic and changing. The absorption seems to be connected with the warm pleasant vibration from the hands cupped in one another and spreading up into the arms.

Not many body nasties except a hard large rock like feeling in the upper belly which is hind of hitting into the solar plexsus area too. A few stiff points inbeween the shoulder blades but would vanish. Legs had that numbness to it and those slight pins and needles but subtle.

Right now there is some nice awareness of the breathing and mind seems pacified and calm. Some sense of urges arising just to pass away fast. There is ease of noticing the body sensations. 

About those image thoughts;
they would be in form of this forum like an image of words "agnostic" or the image of Steph's avatar, or words "Chris Marti" and his avatar, and words like "Tim FF" and his image (the photo Ive seen of him on the net once and word "Forum". 
There was also a planning thought to make video or it so to share it with agnostic and then there was this aversion towards making this video, like its a stupid idea. All this was Noted Aloud as thinking, planning thoughts, imagining (mind image), feeling tone and connecting with some body sensation associated with it (usually in form of excitement-peassure in the belly or solar plexsus, unpleasantish).

I did make the video but yes its stupid and I decided not to post it. It is ridiculous me sitting there and blabbing about mind states and mind images really emoticon 

Anythinng else to report ... dunno ... I think thats it.

EDIT; Ah yes, I tried Pepe's suggestion looking up+right and it caused strain in the eyes (the eye musscles). I gave up on it as I dont like forcing anything causing strain in the body.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/2/20 12:36 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
EDIT 2 ;
how could I forget! There was Disgust during the sit towards the end but right now the mind feels lazy to remember what it was connected to. Some mind state for sure but dont know what it was exactly. It was also connected to that bodily snesation in the upper belly which was in form of a large oblong, egg like shaped heavy rock. This did not last for very long likely up to a minute max. There could have been some misery in it as well but disgust was domintaing this experience.

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5/2/20 2:06 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:

EDIT; Ah yes, I tried Pepe's suggestion looking up+right and it caused strain in the eyes (the eye musscles). I gave up on it as I dont like forcing anything causing strain in the body.
Yes, that would cause strain in the eyes. The idea is to stare up+right using your head, not your eyes. And also do that off-cushion, while walking (I know this may not be possible/easy in lockdown times). Sorry if I was not clear enough. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/2/20 2:24 PM as a reply to Pepe.
Ok I see! Will try that as that is easier.

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5/3/20 8:01 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er.

After a while of fast pace freestyle noting aloud the energy calmed down and the tempo slowed down as well as the volume of the noting voice. Much more is noticed around the noted object wthout the need to note them aloud as they are so clear.

At one stage the attetion rested on the eye space after seeing those eye blips and the nose. There was curiosityt about about that space where images form, that space leading towards the knower of all this.
Last few time there was this sense of knower being in the eyes, then yesterday inbetween the eyes and the upper front brain, inside. 
Today there was no sense of "it" being there, and there was no difference between the head/eyes/ears and the touch of the hands or stiff at the back.

There still was the Down-back-up-left-right sense and that meassuring sense was taking place from the head (eyes-ears).

What I did capture a few times is an image impression of that Doer/Knower. It did not arise fully and would vanish fast but there was this sense of it being fabricated by the thoughts effected by whatever came into the sense door (habitual grasping and forming the selfing from any given sensation)
It really is like a Domino effect, where one domino brick knocks the other and so on trtrtrtrtrtrtrtrrrrrr... dependent origination.

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5/3/20 10:02 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:


I did make the video but yes its stupid and I decided not to post it. It is ridiculous me sitting there and blabbing about mind states and mind images really emoticon 



I believe you can guess my opinion as to what you should do with this video.

no, my friend, not stick it up your arse.

Post it.

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5/4/20 1:18 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Nah. Nothing to see nothing to hear. Next time. 

emoticon 

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5/4/20 1:28 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
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RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/4/20 2:08 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
My narrative sucks! Maybe you could write me a scrip for my next video? I need it to have an authentic feel, insightful, tragicomic, to make you feel nauseous and excited at the same time, as if you have realized at last the illusion that chakra system was wrong all along and it never really opened up from Root to Crown, but the other way around instead, from top of the head all the way down resulting in the greatest bliss firework from your ars! 

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RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/4/20 2:16 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
My narrative sucks! Maybe you could write me a scrip for my next video? I need it to have an authentic feel, insightful, tragicomic, to make you feel nauseous and excited at the same time, as if you have realized at last the illusion that chakra system was wrong all along and it never really opened up from Root to Crown, but the other way around instead, from top of the head all the way down resulting in the greatest bliss firework from your ars! 

emoticon 
I could do that. Do you have a recording set up you could plug me into, and multiple track mixed for your videos, i could listen to you, while doing a voice over on a spearte track, which we could then get transcribed and it would show during the video as subtitles.

Seriously, though i'm pretty sure you weren't! emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/4/20 2:31 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
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RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/4/20 2:33 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
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Plus, i'm in full on silent retreat mode, so if you guys could keep the bullshit to a dull roar and quit forcing me to scream expletives from Re-Ob, i would appreciate it.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/4/20 3:40 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Ehm! Dear sir look around you! You are inside my zendo causing not-so-Noble Silence emoticon 

Shhhh! (Zen master walking around with his trusted Kyosaku). 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/4/20 3:45 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Ehm! Dear sir look around you! You are inside my zendo causing not-so-Noble Silence emoticon 

Shhhh! (Zen master walking around with his trusted Kyosaku). 

Hit me with your best shot, Esteemed Roshi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JRgHol94Xc

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/4/20 1:29 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er.

Lots of clarity and steadfast midfulness. Calmness was present. Noticed those eye blips happening more often than before. At times they have been very fats blip,blip,blip,blip and at times not that often. Also when there was more absorption Blips were less. They were there but not as often.

Many prolonged and clear vanishings of the observed object in the seeing with eyes open as per usual.

Had a sense that I was cycling through stages rather fast, every few minutes and then again and so on. Absorption in Dissolution was very strong as this one is the one Im most familiar with and easy to recognise (center vanishing, eye sight turning murky dark, dark cloud (can be dark grey or even dark purple hue) of sorts surounding the object that is vanishing, chilled skin, relaxation on long outbreath, periphery included). 
Either there was cycling through stages or some freakish jumping in and out of absorption state. All this felt normal and ok. In any way clarity and mindfulness where there.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/5/20 4:58 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Forgot to mention a vivid dream two nights ago;

There was this image of the Earth beneath me but I'm in the space above it. The Moon was in front of me and it literally and abruptly fell off into the universe vanishing without a trace. The Earth was now Moon-less.  

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/5/20 11:46 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
There was restlessness. There was speed noting causing preassure in breathing. Slowed down. Absorption was different. More dark in the whole eye sight and the tiny spot I stared at was bright. Funny thing is it did not vanish more than once. It kept being there in the center but instead of those vanishing there were eye sight Blips. 
For the very first time I could sense those eye sight Blips having some direction. As if they are sliding in, mostly go to the left and also return from the left. These were the most clear but it could also be that they slide to the right or even up but haven't observed this closely. 

Tried to snap out of this absorption but it didn't work. So I just kept with it. 

During the sit (45 minutes) there were many body jerks (these did not happen in a while now). Then towards the end there was a bit stiffness in the middle back and unpleasantness in the but-cushion sensations. 

Oh, at the start of the session it was a first time really since I've restarted my practice that I've felt clear pins and needles-like soft sensations in the feet. Also in hands. 

Ear frequency high pitch. 

Felt very hot at one stage. Note; The room is not really hot. This heat was unpleasant. 

Session ended with a flood of memories from my past (some women I once knew). 

Off to make a dinner now! 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/6/20 12:31 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Thanks to Denmark opening up slowly my partner is now allowed to go to her work again meaning she comes home much later and as it looks today I'm knackered tired after minding my boy all day.
Todays sit was basically yawning throughout so decided to do walking meditation the last 15 minutes which was more awake. 

Will need to find a way to meditate when not so tired. Weekend is not an issue. I just need to figure out the working days. Best would be to get up early in the morning which means getting earlier to bed in the evening. 

If this fails then will establish walking meditation in the after work hours and do sitting meditation during weekends (try and sit twice a day).

To be continued. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/7/20 12:48 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Got up before the rest of family and sat a 45er. 

Was slow, laid back, groggy, sleepy in a waking up way instead of sleepy in a falling a sleep way, which is good. 

Mind is a different beast in the early morning. As if it's dwelling in a different realm than the one in the afternoon.

At one stage had a train of images, one after the other of people I know both dead and alive. 

Stiff in the body , back, neck and lower belly. 

Planning thoughts of coffee making emoticon go figure. 

Btw, did noting aloud but rather quiet as I was just out of bed and can't have someone shouting in my ears early in the morning emoticon 

This early session was not as precise as the afternoon session but that's ok and it might reveal something else this way.

Maybe have a cup of coffee first to wake up some more? Or just sit with that half-sleepiness which I did back in my Shamatha days no problem. 

This will work. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/7/20 1:12 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Got up before the rest of family and sat a 45er. 

Was slow, laid back, groggy, sleepy in a waking up way instead of sleepy in a falling a sleep way, which is good. 

Mind is a different beast in the early morning. As if it's dwelling in a different realm than the one in the afternoon.

At one stage had a train of images, one after the other of people I know both dead and alive. 

Stiff in the body , back, neck and lower belly. 

Planning thoughts of coffee making emoticon go figure. 

Btw, did noting aloud but rather quiet as I was just out of bed and can't have someone shouting in my ears early in the morning emoticon 

This early session was not as precise as the afternoon session but that's ok and it might reveal something else this way.

Maybe have a cup of coffee first to wake up some more? Or just sit with that half-sleepiness which I did back in my Shamatha days no problem. 

This will work. 

Papa Che, you know that during my recent period of, um, Very High Energy Often Taken to Be Fucking MANIA, i was consciously foregoing my usual pre-first-sit cup of coffee in my wee hours routine, in order to best simulate dark night conditions. Right now I would rather die than simulate any more fucking dark night, and so i drink that sacred cup, check my supply for the future, and fuck everything about anything, and sit like the caffeined-up Chan monks of old, who knew a thing or two about waking up.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/7/20 2:00 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Ha! Will try and get that Chan coffee down before the sit! emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/8/20 6:40 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er.

Interesting sit;
Seems a bit confusing. What is what. Its like one stage is there and then another takes over but not in any linear order. There is clarity then there is no clarity, then there is clarity then no clarity (well, in no clarity there is clarity that there is no clarity) There is dropping into absorption and clear vanishings and then there is a sudden train of thoughts, then joy/calmness again and stilness spreading from warm pulsating palms, and so on.

The distance between the "eye space" and the body sensations and other seen objects "in the room", lost the sense of "distance" which were there before but now there is no clarity of "distance". As its all in the same "place". This is interesting as now the eye space and that which was seen, was in the same "place" as the warm sensation of hands and its after image.
Actually there is no sense of "place" hence it feels a bit disorientating and unpleasant. Ok, I can assume its all in the mind but Im yet to have some clear insight into it. 

Right now noticing a preassure in the right side of the head, stiff neck on the right, stiff in the right side of the shoulder blade, and right side of the lower back a bit. Preassure frequency in ears is abit of a pain in the ars and there is clear agitation from audio stimuli.
General unpleasantness.

EDIT; aslo general tendency of the eye sight to go into slight diffused focus.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/9/20 2:13 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
I will just throw this into the pot also;

Im noticing something off the cushion. As if Sensation would Freeze into a frame as soon there is contatct with it, in form of Noticing it. This would make investigating it impossible as its frozen and has not that vibratory appearance. 
But then I looked closer and it seems that ONLY the Image Impression of the sensation is gone frozen and the sensation itself is still flowing.
This frozen image impression can feel rather "confusing" as mind relies heavily on it to make sense of the sensation which still is flowing normaly. In case of mind states arising heavily this can also be a confusing time, like "what was that? , what was this, wait, wait, what? , can you repeat that again?"

Not sure if this is what Ingram calls "Jerkiness" as it really can feel that way because the sensation-flow is going on and yet image impressions seem like frozen frames which have no organic feel to them. Imagine a Ballerina dancing with a Robot.

p.s. had a migraine last night , right side of the head, right side of neck, right shoulder blade was really painful. Needed painkiller and massage which helped.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/9/20 2:35 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
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Not sure if this is what Ingram calls "Jerkiness" as it really can feel that way because the sensation-flow is going on and yet image impressions seem like frozen frames which have no organic feel to them. Imagine a Ballerina dancing with a Robot.
This kind of metaphorical flight is way out of bounds on a stringent practice log, you mad and dissolute poet. Just the facts, ma'am.

But damn, man, that IS good poetry. emoticon

love, tim

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/9/20 3:39 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Poetry is overrated! See no difference beween my ars and mind expressing them selves! 
They are both product of my imagination. Why oh why would I favor one over the other?

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RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/9/20 3:46 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
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that's the man i know and love! you scared me for a second there. Put your guitar in the mix and you'd have had a song.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/9/20 4:28 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Ah yes. While my guitar gently weeps. 

My amp is cabinet-less at the moment after selling some gear. The new cabinet shall arrive this Tuesday together with a tube screamer style overdrive pedal emoticon Excited to plug my axe into it and hit that first chord and let it ring out!

Hunting for that perfect tone! 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/9/20 4:34 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Ah yes. While my guitar gently weeps. 

My amp is cabinet-less at the moment after selling some gear. The new cabinet shall arrive this Tuesday together with a tube screamer style overdrive pedal emoticon Excited to plug my axe into it and hit that first chord and let it ring out!

Hunting for that perfect tone! 
Let us strike out together then, on this quest! I will carry your axe! and scribble down notes from your lyrics before you do that vipassana blitz thing and destroy them as lyrical and lovely!

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/9/20 4:41 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
It's too late I'm afraid. I'm walking right now towards my meditation hall to shred this confusion to bits or be shred by it ... ... ... 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/10/20 6:55 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
It's too late I'm afraid. I'm walking right now towards my meditation hall to shred this confusion to bits or be shred by it ... ... ... 

it was just a matter of time . . .

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/9/20 6:01 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Sat with confusion and as soon I started with noting aloud the confusion lifted. There was looking at the mind terrain. There was slow noting aloud with "there is" curiosity but with very laid back, acceptance manner of observing. 

There would be a few urges to note faster but also letting go of it and noting according to the terrain. Laid back, matter of fact, slow noting. Likely 1-3 sensations a second. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/10/20 6:55 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Set a 45er. 

besides eye blips, I've noticed a "shame thought" in the image space. It really was like a shadow quickly passing away. Ignorance. Non-willingness to be seen. Visually it looked like 2 vertical not sharp lines that had some light to it and in the middle it was dark. It went from right to left. There was a sense that "it" went from its own left to right. 

There seems to be more trust and less effort in noting and letting attention and noting both do its thing. At times there will be "uncertainty" about the accuracy but that too is ok. 

Noting Aloud speed has slowed down to about 1 sensation a second with many gentle noticings in between. 
There seem to be a delicate balance/line between non-control and non-being lost. Walking this line now like a Trapeze walker without that long stick and not even using arms to balance. 
Looking at those Urges pulling the Trapeze walker off balance. Needs a delicate letting go of, to stay on that trapeze rope. 

Preasure on the left side of the head, above the eye line. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
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5/10/20 10:05 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:
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that's the man i know and love! you scared me for a second there. Put your guitar in the mix and you'd have had a song.
Ok Tim! Here you go! (No more complaining about my dry practice ok?! ) emoticon 
https://youtu.be/ATpYIMtMPXU

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/11/20 10:59 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er now. 

There is a stiff pain under the right shoulder blade throughout the entire sit. Got worse towards the end. 

Clear distance between the Watcher (eye space) and the seen, heard, sensed, smelled, tasted. 

Feeling tone seems as part of the watcher/knower space. It's like an idea. Not sure. 

Lots of eye blips. 

Started as a high pace noting aloud tempo with lots of clarity and breathing and vocalisation were balanced. No effort. 

Then it dropped down and got quiet like a whisper. 

Then the voice went up in volume but was very deep with more vibrations in the throat due to such vocalisation.

Had an image of myself staring at me. Was angry in expression. This vanished after it reappearing a few times. There were thoughts of wishing well and seeing it until it vanished. 

Some other images of humans and for each there was wishing well. Some of those are members of DhO and some from my private life. 

That's all I remember. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/11/20 11:29 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
When you say clear distance between the Watcher and the seen, etc... do you mean that there seems to be a perceived seemingly physical distance between them, like the Watcher happens here, seeing happens there? Or do you mean it less literally, like that you're noticing the actual time-lapse arising & passing space between those, as in, the Watcher arises and passes, then seeing arises and passes, then Watcher arises and passes, then hearing arises and passes, for example?

Feeling tone as part of the watcher space is *really* difficult to crack. So far I think there's mental image, a feeling tone, and some tension, all 3 of which are distinct things that happen so quickly that when you're not paying attention they seem to be the same sensation. The feeling tone feels like a sense of a basic vague presence. The tension in the third eye area sometimes is intense and sometimes is barely there or seems non-existent. Spoiler alert - owing to that very fact, it's impermanent and not you. The feeling tone is just a feeling tone, that also changes in intensity and flavor. You know that, I know that, lots of us know that, but they still psychs us out into thinking they're important and huge. emoticon

Edited to add: Here's a hint for practice. Look at the feeling tone/presence and the breath - when the breath inhales and you can feel it in the top of the nostrils and the head. See how they relate and impact one another. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/11/20 11:21 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Sat a 45er now. 

There is a stiff pain under the right shoulder blade throughout the entire sit. Got worse towards the end. 

Clear distance between the Watcher (eye space) and the seen, heard, sensed, smelled, tasted. 

Feeling tone seems as part of the watcher/knower space. It's like an idea. Not sure. 

Lots of eye blips. 

Started as a high pace noting aloud tempo with lots of clarity and breathing and vocalisation were balanced. No effort. 

Then it dropped down and got quiet like a whisper. 

Then the voice went up in volume but was very deep with more vibrations in the throat due to such vocalisation.

Had an image of myself staring at me. Was angry in expression. This vanished after it reappearing a few times. There were thoughts of wishing well and seeing it until it vanished. 

Some other images of humans and for each there was wishing well. Some of those are members of DhO and some from my private life. 

That's all I remember. 
I'm concerned about your mental health, Papa Che. Have you considered easing up on your practice, and simply acting like a man who has six months to live with a fatal disease, instead of having your hair actively on fire?

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/11/20 3:00 PM as a reply to Steph S.
Steph S:
When you say clear distance between the Watcher and the seen, etc... do you mean that there seems to be a perceived seemingly physical distance between them, like the Watcher happens here, seeing happens there? Or do you mean it less literally, like that you're noticing the actual time-lapse arising & passing space between those, as in, the Watcher arises and passes, then seeing arises and passes, then Watcher arises and passes, then hearing arises and passes, for example?

Feeling tone as part of the watcher space is *really* difficult to crack. So far I think there's mental image, a feeling tone, and some tension, all 3 of which are distinct things that happen so quickly that when you're not paying attention they seem to be the same sensation. The feeling tone feels like a sense of a basic vague presence. The tension in the third eye area sometimes is intense and sometimes is barely there or seems non-existent. Spoiler alert - owing to that very fact, it's impermanent and not you. The feeling tone is just a feeling tone, that also changes in intensity and flavor. You know that, I know that, lots of us know that, but they still psychs us out into thinking they're important and huge. emoticon

Edited to add: Here's a hint for practice. Look at the feeling tone/presence and the breath - when the breath inhales and you can feel it in the top of the nostrils and the head. See how they relate and impact one another. 


To be honest I dont really know and to be honest there is no rush here emoticon I take it as it comes. If Im too dense and too stupid to "see" things then I just have to sit much more emoticon That to is fine. Its going to pop out, that insight, when its baked long enough.

I log this stuff so to keep other members inspired as I personally dont need this in written form as Im kind of letting go of it all as soon as I get up from the seat. 

I do notice these senses of "distance" changing with each sit. Some days there is no sense of "distance" and other days there is. No biggie as I can see 2 out of 3 C's at once; Anicca and Anatta. Thats good enough for me as Im not really trying to "master" these stages but just get awakened and to me its about one moment at a time dismantling the Chariot into its myriad parts until there is no more perception Chariot left to even consider asking "Who am I? " emoticon  Im the kind of guy that needs to invest 60 bucks to win 40 bucks emoticon I really am! Same applies to this Path journey. Some of us have dense Karma and some dont. I know some folks dont believe this but I find it to be true in my case. I see it in all aspects of my life (long story). If so then be it. Sit and watch, no laps.

Funny how insight strikes when you least expect it as do other thingies on this Path. My recipe is simple; keep noticing the stream of consciousness without any laps in mindfulness. Thats all. Nothing else is important. Much of this stuff is up to the mind anyway. All it needs is something holding the mirror for it so it can look at it self instead of going here and there creating dream worlds.

I really liked reading about Sariputra and Mogalana talking about the four ways of progress;

"Venerable Maha Moggallana went to see the Elder and said to him:

"There are four ways of progress, brother Sariputta:

difficult progress, with sluggish direct-knowledge;
difficult progress, with swift direct-knowledge;
easy progress, with sluggish direct-knowledge;
easy progress, with swift direct-knowledge.
"By which of these four ways of progress, brother, was your mind freed from the cankers without remnants of clinging?" To which the Venerable Sariputta replied: "By that of those four ways of progress, brother, which is easy and has swift direct-knowledge."

I wouldn't be surprised if Im the "difficult progress, with sluggish direct-knowledge" emoticon (here the 1st part is for the first 3 paths and the last direct-knowledge for Arahatship).

Chris Marti seems to be "difficult progress, with swift direct-knowledge" I mean look at the guy! 8 months from 1st to gone gone gone emoticon 

You Steph might be "easy progress, with sluggish direct-knowledge" emoticon 

Wonder what Tim FF is to be ... hm ... emoticon ...

Sorry if Im off the mark Steph. Long day and my little boy is going back to his kindergarden tomorrow for the first time after about 6 weeks of lock down with me in our home emoticon Im sure we both need a break from one another a bit emoticon 

p.s. Chris will kill me if he sees all these smilies! Any one care to clean them up a bit?

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/11/20 3:02 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim FF !!! Do you have something against my new hair style??? Its the hottest hair do out there! 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/11/20 3:17 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
I mean look at the guy! 8 months from 1st to gone gone gone

This is not accurate.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/11/20 3:36 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
I mean look at the guy! 8 months from 1st to gone gone gone

This is not accurate.

Hey Chris emoticon what ya havin' ? Hey Tim give the man a pint let him loosen up a bit. Put it on my tab!

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/11/20 3:38 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Tim FF !!! Do you have something against my new hair style??? Its the hottest hair do out there! 


emoticon Pops, I love the look! emoticon If i had any hair, it would be ablaze, i assure you. emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/11/20 3:40 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Chris Marti:
I mean look at the guy! 8 months from 1st to gone gone gone

This is not accurate.

Hey Chris emoticon what ya havin' ? Hey Tim give the man a pint let him loosen up a bit. Put it on my tab!
That is  not accurate. These are on me.

That young fella has been telling some great stories lately, Papa-ji, on the where are CM's etc? thread 2. He's loose as a goose, and sloppy drunk, spilling stuff on zen masters left and right.

emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/11/20 3:47 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim why do I always have to pull the bleedn' pints mate?! 

Slainte! 



RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/11/20 3:55 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim for fokn' sek man! Do I have to be the DJ also?! 

Ok ok I'll do it tonight but thats the last time ya hear me boyo!

EDIT lemme change that record ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H9rCRuZ3K4

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/11/20 9:33 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Tim for fokn' sek man! Do I have to be the DJ also?! 

Ok ok I'll do it tonight but thats the last time ya hear me boyo!

EDIT lemme change that record ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H9rCRuZ3K4

forgive me, papa che, for being such a slow and dim-witted host. I'm glad somebody else around here knows how to pull a good Guiness, which is a fine art indeed.

Pink Floyd for some requires weed; others can only handle Pink Floyd on hallucinogens. Listening to this tonight: better than weed, better than hallucinogens. Approaching meditation. Nowhere near sex, much less sex with Pink Floyd playing.

Maybe I shouldn't have drunk all four of those Guinesses myself.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/12/20 2:26 AM as a reply to Steph S.
My reply yesterday was a bit funky emoticon my apologies for grooving along Tim's saxophone lead emoticon 

Yes, that is some interesting stuff you are pointing out to. 
What I can sense right now while writing this is ...

... there seems to be an eyesight blip when attention moves to another object. At times very clear blip and more often just about noticeable. It immediately returns back to the supposed knower/eye space/head space creating a reference point. 

So yes when watched closely there are gaps like projector slides returning to that point of reference, like "itch is to the left in the level of the mustache". 

Thank you Steph, will keep observing this as it presents itself. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/12/20 4:44 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

The eyesight blip was happening very often and seems to happen even if attention is held on one object, same object. It seems as that object is held in one frame for only "this" moment and then it's part of another arising and gets its own frame. 

Ive had one eyesight bleep that stood out of the bunch by having a 2-stage in it. It's almost as it went "swoosh-swoosh" and then new arising was there. Could that 2-stage swoosh be the Doors? 
Will pay more attention to this when it presents itself. 

These eyesight bleeps seem like a "blind spot". Are these "emptiness" ? Must be no? Arising-peak experience-passing-Blip-arising-peak experience-passing-blip-arising ... 

Any who, absorption was strong, murky image space, flickering and vanishing was observed. 

Stiff shoulder blade still there. Stiff neck too. 

There was a rat walking above me in the roof and biting into the wooden construction. Some ill will and planning thoughts were present as how to get it out of there. I did give it heads up though by sending some Metta first. Clever rat emoticon moved away and got silent! 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/12/20 5:00 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Sat a 45er. 

There was a rat walking above me in the roof and biting into the wooden construction. Some ill will and planning thoughts were present as how to get it out of there. I did give it heads up though by sending some Metta first. Clever rat emoticon moved away and got silent! 

Next time, tell him: "you've got your yellow card. If you get a red card, ratsie, it's game fucking over. Got it? Now get gone, while you can."

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/12/20 8:55 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Dope. So something I think I might have mentioned before in this thread, but wanted to bring up again to see if you think they're related. What about zoning out and how that does or doesn't relate to eyesight blips? I call it zoning out when attention wavers and the sense of presence goes away for a little bit. It's usually when I'm not really paying attention and my mind wanders... especially in daily life if I'm not actively paying attention. I'm starting to wonder if what I'm calling the sense of presence that's there when I'm paying attention is actually a sense of alertness. Because the sense of presence isn't there at all when I have those zoning out moments. But it is there, in varying degrees of intensity, when I'm actively paying attention/being mindful. It's really strong when I'm focusing in very specifically on something, and less strong when I'm being looser and wider with attention. I might put this paragraph in my own practice thread also to get tips on it.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/12/20 11:46 AM as a reply to Steph S.
I note aloud. I can hear it, I can feel the mouth moving and throat and head vibrating from the voice. Intention to note objects is there and so is mindfulness/alertness/attention. Attention and objects arise and pass. There is focus either zoomed in or out and wide. 

Then there is sudden scenario spin thinking and at the same time of noticing (silently momentary in the mind) this thinking there is also noticing (silently momentary in the mind) of the Noting Aloud Voice still noting other objects emoticon Ha! 

Now we talk multiple noters. Which one is awake and which one asleep? emoticon It really feels like there is something else hovering over both the Noticer and the Zoned out mind. 

It's interesting all this. Starts to feel like a multi-layered maze! All this stuff could very well be a dream world. All of it even the awakening. 
Makes sense why Buddha thought Nibbana as the actual cessation of suffering. Pari-Nibbana. Good bye and thanks for all the fish emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/13/20 4:38 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:

It's interesting all this. Starts to feel like a multi-layered maze! All this stuff could very well be a dream world. All of it even the awakening. 

Papa Che, no it's real as that shit you had PTSD about.
Makes sense why Buddha thought Nibbana as the actual cessation of suffering. Pari-Nibbana. Good bye and thanks for all the fish emoticon
The Awakened One succumbed to jaw cancer at the end of his brilliant bait-and-switch run. Same thing that got Freud, only no cigar karma for Gautama. The cessation of suffering on any terms sounds damn good to someone with jaw cancer.

love, tim

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/13/20 5:15 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Made a video after my regular 45 minutes sit. I did something else this time. It just came to me , likely as a result of what Chris Marti was asking in Steps's log. Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid. 
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid emoticon but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings. 
https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/14/20 6:05 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
I have realized that I've been spending time pondering stuff during meditation thanks to the chat with Steph and Chris emoticon so decided to go back to speed noting to get back on track instead of pondering. 
Made a short vid after the 45 minute sit to capture the speed noting feel and body twitching which was there throughout the whole sit, unpleasant. Also stiff pain under the right shoulder blade was unpleasant. People report some serious body movements in meditation but in my experience they were never radical but are unpleasant.
 
https://youtu.be/yBmemoticonTTPzdo

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/15/20 3:12 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off cushion;

that stiff right shoulder pain has now spread into a painful stiff neck. Also some stiffness in the lower back to the right side. 
Mind is not that clear. 
Can notice reactivity. 
Both in and outbreath are of about same length and the breathing feels easy. 

Will sit later today when I get time. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/15/20 10:14 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Mostly agonizing pain under the right shoulder blade as if there is a wooden spear in there. That pain is causing stiffness in the neck on the right side. Unpleasant. 
Clarity was there about all these and about non-clarity. I just let it all be as it is just pain, unpleasant, high pitch ear frequency, train of thoughts (mostly about this Analayo stuff), body posture mostly above the legs was noted and a bit in legs too, some slight tingling (for some reason I'm not feeling the legs as much since I restarted the practice). 
All in all, this sit was very much unpleasant and towards the end even rather restless and painful (pain would come and go at times, be sharp then dull, then pulsate into pain and deflate into dull stiff pain). Any way, instead of falling prey to restlessness due to pain I repeated a few times "all beings suffer and have pain" and this kept my ars on the chair and stay with it all until timer chimes in. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/16/20 7:16 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Just say a 45er. 

Calmness. Warmth in the palms radiating pleasantness. Tingling soft vibrations in palms pleasant. A few body twitches were neutral in feel. Eyesight blips were present. Absorption was present and the eye sight turned into murky image that was flickering. Changing from color to less color and darker. It also had a 2-stage zap-zap eye blip. 

Not that clear sense of "distance". Like there was no clear "seen or sensed over there" but also not over here. Rather "don't know". 

There was some sense of sadness around the eyes and some "idea" of gladness about this practice. There seems to be an "idea" of sorts behind the sensed sensation. 

Some slight slouching of posture and slight lower back pain. The shoulder blade pain has subsided but there is some residue left there. 

Ear frequency pitch is very high (like a high note, not sure which). It's neutral in feel. 

A few itching spots and very sharp. They vanished after a while but didn't turn into a wider vibratory tingling spot. 

And yes, as per usual, planning thoughts, assuming thoughts, imagining thoughts ... all noted and labeled and as such they pass away very quickly just to be replaced by something else. No proliferation allowed  in this Noting Aloud business ;) emoticon 

Ah yes not to forget; breathing out was long and relaxing and breathing in was very short and not as easy. 

Edit; noting speed was even and about 3-4 sensation a second (approximately). There was ease to note but a few "don't know" nothings as well, as if I've missed the sensation somehow. Not sure how to describe it. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/17/20 4:43 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off cushion;

have very strong stiff lower back pain (right side of the back) to the point of applying Tiger Balm on it and took one painkiller. There is still some residue stiffness in the right shoulder blade and neck but not as much.

Breathing is even, out and inbreaths are almost the same in lenght, calm, long. Mind seems clear with a sense of mild melancholy. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/17/20 5:59 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Just sat a 45er. 

Very unpleasant session throughout. Hard to track attention. It's here , then there somewhere then woah, where is it, is there, ... it was all over the place. Clarity's gone to bits. Many itches in form of insects crawling on or under the skin. Unpleasant. 

Eyesight blips were present but this time felt violating. I'm not entirely sure but I think I could sense the Blip this time moving inwards in a very jerky fast way, and felt violating as if something has been thrown at you. Imagine someone throwing a stone into your eye. Very unpleasant. 
In past sessions this Eyesight Blip would move from right to left. 

Vibration in the palms was very "contained" there was some sort of vibration going there but could not describe as clarity was not there. It felt rather unpleasant. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/18/20 6:07 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat for 45 minutes. Freestyle noting aloud (eyes open) started with a normal pace and "there is ..." phrase before labeling the noted object. 

Absorption was there and then gone and back again a few times. There was this murk / darkness in the seen and at some stage there was a round cloud in the middle of the seen surrounding the spot I was staring at.

The eyesight blip was present throughout and had a different movement this time. It's as it was moving from outside in and more towards the right eye. This was caused some curiosity. 

Restlessness was perceived several times in form of body numbness followed by an urge to get up and image impressions of my smart phone (tuner). This wanisged after a few noting labels. This restlessness usually stops very fast and there is just that lingering image impression of it there. Then even that vanished just to be replaced by something else (hearing, itching, anything really). 

The lower back pain did arise on the right side but would vanish as soon i would zoom in to investigate it. And if I kept the focus there it would not arise. 

Sitting posture was obvious throughout and so was the short In-breathing and long out-breathing. 

Hands had that "contained" vibration again. I checked if there was some tension in the muscles there but both hands were relaxed and yet felt as if some tebsion was there. 

I could perceive more vibrations in the feet and legs today. Actually could feel vibrations on almost the entire body. 

Generally this session had a unpleasant feeling tone. Noting voice had a tone as if in anguish but accepting it all. Very low and humble. It was certainly not a proud hip hooray look at me shooting these aliens like a cowboy emoticon 

Sitting time will remain 45 mins once a day as there is no feel to increase this for now. 

EDIT; in case I didn't mention body jerks did arise afte maybe 5 or 10 minutes into the practice and remained until the end. They were not so unpleasant this time. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/18/20 5:49 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/18/20 6:07 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
;) 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/19/20 8:24 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off the cushion;

emotional reactivity, heavy feelings, lots of presence in the eyes/behind the eyes almost absorption-like but more into selfing-thoughts-feelings rather than Jhana-like. Im remembering to pay mindfulness to the nose (periferal vision) and commiting to the human realm. Some kind of preassure on the ears and jaws. Soreness in the throat. Strong stiffness in the neck. Tensed energy in the arms and tingling in the legs/feet. General restlessness and itching/crawling antsy-vibration under the skin.

Will try and sit at least twice today as today I have more time for myself. I find that the increased sense of suffering increases the desire for sitting practice.

Keep watching! Armies of Mara are shooting countless arrows! Turn them into falling petals! Keep watching! Watch Forrest watch! 

emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/19/20 4:30 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Off the cushion;

emotional reactivity, heavy feelings, lots of presence in the eyes/behind the eyes almost absorption-like but more into selfing-thoughts-feelings rather than Jhana-like. Im remembering to pay mindfulness to the nose (periferal vision) and commiting to the human realm. Some kind of preassure on the ears and jaws. Soreness in the throat. Strong stiffness in the neck. Tensed energy in the arms and tingling in the legs/feet. General restlessness and itching/crawling antsy-vibration under the skin.

Will try and sit at least twice today as today I have more time for myself. 


emoticon 

amen
I find that the increased sense of suffering increases the desire for sitting practice.

amen

Keep watching! Armies of Mara are shooting countless arrows! Turn them into falling petals! Keep watching! Watch Forrest watch! 

I'm WATCHING!!!!! Petals everywhere, a blizzard of petals.

Still watching!

love, tim

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/19/20 5:14 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Acceptance of the non-clarity, letting attention do what it does jumping from one object to the next , watching gently objects popping in and out, lots of "don't know" labelings. All noted with a whispering voice. 
Memories from today. Some scenario spinning. 
Stiffness in the neck and upper back left side close to the spine and low back on the right side. 
Eyesight blips were not present as often but did arise with no particular clarity about them. 
Generally, acceptance of the unpleasantness. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/19/20 6:45 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat another 45er today. 

This time noting aloud felt out of place. Noted silently without laps in mindfulness which was accompanied with acceptance of all the unpleasant body sensations and feelings and mind states associated with it all. 

Some comparing thoughts about my early Shamatha practice from 2010 arose. All this reminds me of the experience back then. 

Lots of body jerks in the 1st sit today and in the 2nd sit also. Less towards the end of 2nd sit when I realized that this "contained" vibration in arms and legs and back and neck is numbness and soft pins and needless sensations. 
Back was slouching and causing unpleasantness but I just accepted it and let it all be as is. 
Ear frequency is loud and high pitch. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - Papa Che log
Answer
5/19/20 2:23 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off cushion;

got suddenly VERY tired and VERY heavy. Got hot flu-like heat and that heavy flu-like tiredness and just needed to lay down. Went to bed early and slept for 2 hours (just woke up recently) Feel better now and that flu-like feel and heat is not there.

Likely results of the today's two sits. Still stiff in the upper back close to the neck on the left side.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/20/20 4:37 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Numb vibratory sensations in hands and arms. Similar just weaker in legs and feet. Also in the face/head. Body twitching was often during the first half of the sit then subsided when certain calm kicked in. Noting aloud started with normal voice volume then got quiet and whispering. 

Sensations, feelings, mind states were popping all over and close investigation was no t possible. I just let it do what it does and kept noting whatever was noticeable moment to moment. All is changing very fast. 

Body pains and stiffness was not that bad. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/21/20 4:28 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Strange session. 

Session started with lots of throat soreness and coughing. Then there were feelings of sadnesss and hopelessness, tearing up around the eyes. The clarity was not sharp. There was a tendency towards diffused focus. 

At some point decided to lock the eyes and let attention do its thing. Noted with whispers. 
Tendency to speed note came about in a form of an idea. This sense of idea had some unclear image impression. 

Then at one stage just opened the eyes and appreciated it all. I mean ALL; the dullness, the not knowing, the jerkiness, the wonder, confusion, stiffness, the wise-guy thinking ideas, the hearing of birds song, the pleasant the unpleasant. 

The not-control did not know and there is fear of not-knowing and not-controlling. Appreciation of not-control. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/21/20 8:44 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off the cushion;

there is some underlaying state of sadness or similar, some subtle agony of sorts thats clouding the clarity or rather is offering itself to the lense of clarity so much its clouding all other sensations and mind states. Instead of noticing lots of different sensations and states I shall sink into this feeling of sadness and silent agony as it seems to be causing some sort of unpleasant reactivity.

I will try and drag my sorry ars back to the cushion and note this sensation that is flickerig around the eys and in eye space. It certainly has a defocusing tendency, as if falling inward. Seems to have Absorption qualities and pull towards silence and stillness rather than the dynamics of noting.

Not sure (note "uncertainty" )

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/21/20 12:36 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er just now. 

There was much more speed this time but no feeling or sensations of sorrow to be found. There was lots of Uncertainty weather the sensations were noticed correctly so an idea came to me to Note all sensations and label them as Certain or Uncertain. 

Ended up with almost all being Certain and even certain about the Uncertainty mind state. 

This was a fun practice as I've never really observed Certainty. I would notice Uncertainty but not Certainty. 

This was a very good tool to use against Doubt. When I doubt if indeed I have been noting correctly or not. When there is strong sense of uncertainty there. 

Thanks to using the label Certainty I was able to keep up the noting speed. 
It would go like; 
Seeing, certainty, itching, certainty, pain, certainty, unpleasant, certainty, hearing, certainty, eyesight blip, uncertainty, certainty about uncertainty, hearing, uncertainty, certainty about the uncertainty  ...etc. 

Suddenly the doubt and believe that I'm lost in unclarity was gone and practice could move on. 

Lots of body jerking, sharp itching, like insects are crawling on my skin, stiff neck. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/22/20 5:18 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Session was on and off absorption based. Started with plain noting, went smooth, then absorption and went smooth, then fidgeting and jerking and uncertainty then absorption calm and seeing that jerkiness has something to do with eye blips too. They are clear the might be rapid but unclear if that makes sense. There is no one rhythm to it all. A few moments it's slower then it speeds up etc ... 

Kept noting Neutral feelings as I've felt these not being labeled much if at all. Many more neutral feels than unpleasant.

Thr absorption was mostly in form of the room I stare at with eyes open turning black and white but mostly being murk. There was a dark circle a few times with some hazy color in it but very weak. Uncertainty. Felt calm and sitting posture was very present (easily noticed). 

Vibrationd in hands and body are still in a numb like pins and needles shape. There were a few itches very sharp but vanished fast. One itch was very vibratory and wide and lasted a bit. 
Body jerks were stronger out of absorption but would also happen in absorption but not as jerky (slight body move in the shoulder-neck area). 

For the last few days there were thoughts arising (off cushion) about quitting the practice ignited by unpleasant feelings in form of restlessness. These feelings are not present during the sitting. 
I assume it's because I'm not mindful off the cushion and fall into the perception of agony and unpleasantness. When I notice these arising then they are quickly seen for what they are and hence let go off instead of clinging to it which leads to proliferation.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/23/20 6:50 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Again on and off absorption which takes place in the sense door of seeing and image space. There was a dynamic cloud that's murky to the right (but I swear I could say left) under towards the floor. The center was clear and only vanishing once. There was a purplish haze but weak around the center. 

Lots of stiffness pain in the lower back. Right side. 

There was a very solid consistent noting aloud throughout. Restlessness would arise from the stiffness of the lower back and numbness of the bum against the cushion and would result in a image of number "45" on a screen of a smart phone. 
Labeling all this aloud vanished this hindrance each time. 

Sitting posture was very straight for a long while and then towards the last quarter of sit went slouching , stiff back, neck and pain in the right lower back. Numbness vibration in form of pins and needles in hands, but and legs. 

A few itches here and there some sharp, some bubbling. Frequency in ears is high pitch and very present. Vanishing of birds singing was noticed (bird sings then it stops). Eyesight blips were present a lot during the absorption's. Less out of the absorption. 

Many images of this forum with its members. Each members image (either image of their forum name or their avatar) got "wishing well" and label "imagining". Also some planning thoughts were noticed. 

I think that's all there is to mention. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/24/20 5:27 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Note; last two nights there was a fear factor observed. As if there was a threat.

Today sat a 45er.

The sit started alert and quickly went into absorbtion with a weak purple haze around spot I stared at (open eyes). Soon after the entire seen room went dark/murky but still with 3D shapes of the objects in the room. The center spot I stared at was vanishing. Noting of other objects like hearing, feeling, touching, imagining etc .. were arising also but the vanishing was clear part of this absorption in the image space.

At some stage there was this something ... like an "idea" or "cligning urge" searching for "meaning" "seeking preference" as if it was sliding through the body sensations, feelings and mind states and "choosing" what was pleasant and what was unpleasant ... if Im to make an iage of that feel/perception it would be like a nebulous snake wiggling its way around the body-mind in hunt for what is "prefered".

Then after the Dark-murky vanishing absorption there was ligting up a bit (not dark-murky) of the visual room and all the image was even. There was still this slight defused sight but with more color and all seemed Flat. Very calm, and noting was slow but very much alert and without effort. 

Then some body jerks started happening emoticon jeez, all this seems to go the other way around emoticon then towards the end of this sit there were some images of a monk in  yellow robes sitting in the forrest and facing a tiger approaching, there was staring at the tigers eyes and feeling of chill vibrations on the monk's skin, noting it, knowing it, seeing it, anticipating, acceptance, smile on the face, composure of posture, there is breath.

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/25/20 2:33 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off cushion; 

4th night with a sense of fear and unrest. I'm getting images and situations from my past and the rememberance of them are very detailed as if I'm there again. One of the persons seemed to be that tiger from my yesterday's meditation. It was more of a flipping image , that persons image then Flip tiger face Flip ... Same eyes.

These memories also seem like a slow motion dream but with all the details (if there was a room then all stuff is there and if nature then all stuff is there). 

Sending Metta and noting the experience. There is also curiosity about these recent images. (Note the mind state Curiosity). 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/25/20 5:56 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

oh boy this session was disgusting. 

Started with jerky focus. Ear frequency was drumming-like. There was high pitch frequency but also deep drumming. 

At some stage there was an unpleasant sense of nauseous feeling in the upper belly. The breath entering the mouth (noting aloud quietly while in and outbreathing, rather fast) felt diqusting. The contact with the toungue and then down the throat was as if the breath was made of something utterly disgusting and would go down my throat into the belly. I thought at some stage I will actually puke! 

Then misery kicked in and hope that the timer will chime in soon ... but it didn't. It felt miserable and disgusting. There was acceptance and endurance. 

Body jerks were present also as well as numb bum and right leg, and left hand was squeezing the right hand often (each time when noticed had to relax it again). 

At the start there were many eyesight blips but then with disgust the eye lids were blinking rapidly and constantly. 

Throughout the session there was a sense of unpleasant heat that was causing sweat. 

Now off cushion I feel better but the ear drumming is still there and is not pleasant. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/26/20 5:32 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

Lots of planning thoughts about Hibiscus Kid (how to reply to him as this morning I wrote 3 posts and deleted them and even made a video response and deleted that as well not feeling it being of any benefit to him) and image of his avatar in the image space. 
Connected to this there was a preassure in the solar plexus connected with a passion to be of service/help. This passion was emotional and hence rather unpleasant. 
There was acceptance of it all and intention of wishing well to HK and his practice. 
There were also thoughts and images of agnostic and Tim FF. Same as above. 

Preassure in the right side of the head. Stiffness in the right side of the neck. Posture was fine and slouching only a bit towards the end. Focus was broader. Absorption was not as pleasant because of the preassure in the head so I watched it for a while and all the eyesight blips which were jerky and moved on to a more laid back general noting of anything really. 

Had one very sharp itch in the left leg. Likely the sharpest so far. There was thinking and scenario spinning how such intense itch can lead all the way to EQ and then there was just a mind image of letters "EQ". 
The itch was changing in intensity, became more vibrant and wider and then it vanished. Moving on. 

The breathing seems long, both in and outbreathing. There is certain calm present in the observing apparatus and the breathing but body itself feels like it's a bomb ready to explode. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/26/20 7:00 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/26/20 9:19 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Off cushion; 

some sort of disorientating sensation in the head. It's as if eye sight door and the very back of the head just behind the skull are one and the same but in seemingly two different spots. Hence kind of disorientating and causing this non-clarity. 

The back of the head just under the skull has lots of vibration but in a preassure like mode. It's certainly more on the unpleasant side. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/26/20 11:31 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
Sat a 45er. 

oh boy this session was disgusting. 

Started with jerky focus. Ear frequency was drumming-like. There was high pitch frequency but also deep drumming. 

At some stage there was an unpleasant sense of nauseous feeling in the upper belly. The breath entering the mouth (noting aloud quietly while in and outbreathing, rather fast) felt diqusting. The contact with the toungue and then down the throat was as if the breath was made of something utterly disgusting and would go down my throat into the belly. I thought at some stage I will actually puke! 

Then misery kicked in and hope that the timer will chime in soon ... but it didn't. It felt miserable and disgusting. There was acceptance and endurance. 

Body jerks were present also as well as numb bum and right leg, and left hand was squeezing the right hand often (each time when noticed had to relax it again). 

At the start there were many eyesight blips but then with disgust the eye lids were blinking rapidly and constantly. 

Throughout the session there was a sense of unpleasant heat that was causing sweat. 

Now off cushion I feel better but the ear drumming is still there and is not pleasant. 

Wow, that's a lot to go through my friend! Is this what I got to look foward to? emoticon

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/26/20 1:05 PM as a reply to Sam Gentile.
We are all different (if you think Karma we likely don't all share the same karmic load) hence meditative experience will be different from person to person but generally speaking, if you read about the Maps of Insight, it can get unpleasant as a natural progression. 

In these unpleasant stages we learn a lot about Acceptance and letting sensations, mind states and feelings do their stuff. 

Disqust and Misery seems rather ugly in my case emoticon but might be very mild for you. 

No reason to obsess with Stages of Insight but it's good to know the general curve of this progressive path; I like it, I don't like it, I really like it, I really don't like it, it's ok all is just fine, "what was that!?"

It's changing. It's Impermanence at work emoticon

The more you practice applying Acceptance and letting things do their thing and not fighting it in the early stages the easier it will be when DN stage comes along. Also remember how noting at least 1-2 sensations a second keeps the hindrances short and not-troublesome emoticon well that insight will help you big time later on.

Focus only on what is happening right Now. Always just right Now. Is it this stage or that is ok to reflect a bit to get a sense of progress but it's all in the right Now. Seeing those sensations, mind states and feelings is the way through this. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
Answer
5/27/20 4:30 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

This was an interesting sit. I could observe some latching onto the sensations. There are sensations arising and then some almost automatic (habitual? ) latching onto it. I could not see fine details here but this seems like the way Mind latches onto this sensation and creates new content from its impressions. It's sticky like snail trail. 

Absorption was present, felt ok and calm. Some vanishing of the center were observed.

The body pains and stiffness was only there a few times in the neck and lower left side of the back. 

One strong itch on the top of the head turned antsy and then got wider and massaging like. As if there were hundreds of small ant legs massaging that part. Was pleasant and this led into absorption. 

Practice seemed more accepting and trusting the Noting, not questioning if all noted were really noted correctly. During this part I've noticed that latching trail onto the passing sensations. 

I think that's about it. 
Ah yes, there was a sense of body shrinking in height. At times I can sense as body is much taller. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/28/20 5:17 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

I have noticed something during the sit but can't remember now. There was a planning thought about writing about it. Now it's gone. 
 
ok. 

It's hard right now to remember all but it felt important during the sit.

Ok. Right now just after the sit there is absorption style calm, there is stiffness in the lower back and some crackling stiffness in the neck. 

There is coolness on skin and pumping preassure in the chest. The ear frequency is high pitch with some silent low brum brum brum in the background of it and is a lower frequency. Almost like a car that's just standing on one spot with the engine on. 

Start of session was neutral but turned unpleasant and then something about all those momentary memories of the previous sensation ... that latching onto sensations. So much of that latching is taking place. That knowing. This must be what Krishnamurti calls "freedom from the known" freedom from that latching onto the experience of thesense doors. There is this something , it not a who, it's something , some energy of ... something is latching and creating memories and story out of those sensations that arose in attention. 

I don't know. Must go to the toilet now! 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/28/20 8:49 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Papa Che Dusko:
there was a sense of body shrinking in height. At times I can sense as body is much taller.

Do you remember if just before that you were thinking/pointing to the roof or the floor, even if with eyes open looking forward? My hypothesis (had several experiences, particularly when doing a standing meditation) is that this 'sort of The Watcher' was triggered when I had simultaneously two vanishing points, not necessarily opposites. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/28/20 8:38 AM as a reply to Pepe.
I'm looking straight in front of me. In both cases of body feeling larger or smaller im looking in front of me, not up high and not into the floor. The spots I keep focused on are in the level of my solar plexus or chest. 

I wouldn't worry much about it as it's only Anicca at work. Perception is changing. 
But no, I don't remember what I was paying attention to at that moment (up , down or else) 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/28/20 8:46 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Let me add about today's sit; 

There was this hazy feel to it, a bit dream-like but awake. I did try to see if there was this distance feel between the watcher and the sensed object but I could not find that sense of distance.

The seeing and touching felt same as did the hearing and thinking. The watcher if it was anywhere could have been asleep emoticon I mean I knew there was a preassure in the solar plexus and pain in the lower back but that Sense of Distance pointing towards the Watcher (usually head space) was not there.

 I can't tell more about it at this time. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/28/20 9:06 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Loch Kelly (Shift into Freedom) uses solar plexus as a "place" for the Watcher. In taoist practices, the lower Dantian is used. Perhaps I said it wrong: the cognitive/perceptual dissonance of having two centers of {X,Y,Z} coordinates is what I believe triggers the Watcher. 

It sounds promising what you report! emoticon 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/29/20 9:49 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. Freestyle noting aloud as per usual. Started slow, then went fast then went quiet, then absorption silent noting, then triangulating fast between the touch, ear frequency hear and see, ... 

Itching in form of insects crawling on and under the skin. Body twitching throughout the session. 

Something about the Sight Door and "of course that's why it's called a Door" as it really feels like an entrance. Tried to sense the same for touch and hear but no such realization/perception happened there. 

Ok. That's it! Must go shopping! Ta Ta! 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/30/20 8:05 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er.

Most was in a absorption state, noting aloud but when absorption kicks in then there is more of a whisper voice going on. 

Sat a few hours ago so not much memory of it right now but I did notice at the end of the session both yesterday and today there is more curiosity and interest during the end of the sit which might be a good indicator to up the sitting practice a bit.

Today before the sit I've had memories from distant past , a few of them arising and no apparent connection to one another. Strange things. 
Right now tension in the neck, high pitch frequency in the ear, absorption like calm and hazyness, warmth in the body, light preassure in the chest

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/31/20 5:00 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

This session was ridden with images and thought scenarios, remembering, planning, etc

Kept a normal noting aloud pace. 

Absorption was present but not too deep. 

Ear frequency got louder and louder. High pitch. 

Towards the end of session things flattened out and even the voice got more silent with each noting. 

There was one thing that was arising but not developing; with each new arising of "knowing" (like "this is itching" or else) there would be a slight arising of a round white light in the center. It's likely around 10cm wide if I'm to guess. This happens fast and vanished quickly so I just note it as "image". It's as it's springing to life but doesn't really get all the way. That's the feel I get. 

Body aches were not so present and body twitching was mild and sporadic. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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5/31/20 7:02 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat another 45er. 

Similar to above but less scenario spins. Rather memory of the scenarios or plans from before. These memories were like a frozen image. Arise the fall away. 

Absorption was stronger this time. At some stage I have been staring through the window. Sunny day. When I moved the gaze towards the inside of the room I've got that Green Kasina shape I used to experience with a candle flame. Eyes still open. Green turned to Red. Then I decided to close the eyes but that red diminished fast. Returned back to noting aloud. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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6/1/20 4:58 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat a 45er. 

This session was filled with vivid absorption amidst of freestyle noting aloud with eyes open. 

There was some interesting movement in the image field; 
The center I stared at is a dark dirt spot maybe 1cm in diameter. I'm likely 2 meters away from it. It's in the level of my solar plexus. 

The center would have 20cm circle which was hazy light purple, cloud like and moving like a fluid. The dirt spot would vanish and reappear. 

The interesting part was a dark mass flowing from outside in, from the right (I actually wrote here left at first as that's how it felt even thought it came in from my right side) side in towards the center but would not mix with the center. Then the dark matter came also from the opposite side, so now there were 2 dark matters moving in, almost look like that flowing lava but without heat and no color at first. 

They were flowing in from the sides, inwardly, but in the lower part of the image (I hope this makes sense). 

When these two dark lava flowing parts close in to the center (at the 20cm diameter point) they seem to catch on that light purple haze and these two lava like dark parts become light purple and all is not dark/murky anymore. 

All this is happening while noting aloud things like, hearing ear pitch, birds singing, awareness of the sitting posture, itching, twitching of body (very few and soft twitches), sensing the breathing clearly etc ... 

Funny how Jhana absorption and hard-core Noting Vipassana flow well together. And all this while talking aloud and have eyes open! 

Btw, I did decide before the sit to apply acceptance to Jhana in case in arises as I did start developing a bit resistance towards it. 
Now I treat it the same way as I treat Dark Night stuff; with acceptance ... AND emoticon full noting while it's happening! 

Ah yes, body pains have subsided it seems. Slight neck stiffness but that's about it for now. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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6/1/20 5:10 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Just to add; about those two dark lava like dark mass flowing in. 
At one stage long before they will change color into light purple haze they would have some distortion to it. Funny as the 20cm central circle would be more solid with some fluid movement but these two inwardly flawing dark mass objects would have distortion in them. The distortion is very fast and shaky I would say. But not the center of the image. 

RE: Freestyle Noting Aloud - log + a few Practice Videos
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6/2/20 12:01 PM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
Sat s 45er. 

Similar to yesterday's sit. At first just dry noting aloud , normal to fast pace. Clarity good. Not many body issues, mild neck stiffness and buttocks numbness which got worse later on.

One interesting thing that happened was connected to my buttocks; the numbness is usually perceived as pins and needles but in this sit it started as ... hm how do I descrbe this ... like a sensation of lightning bolts being very much ice cold and sharp but this was neutral in feel. This was very physical. Not an imagination. This caused curiosity and even sparked the first cycle of absorption.  

Like yesterday I have experienced 2 absorption cycles. Lots of murk in the visuals (eyes open as per usual) the center gets some hazy light purplish cloud, center dot (which I stare at and is in the room in front of me) vanished many times. I could see it vanishing at the moment of noting another arising. Many eyesight blips (like the slide show). 
At this stage noting went super fast but cycled around seeing, frequency hearing in the ears, touching of the hands, buttocks numbness. 

I think that's all. 

edit; forgot the itching being sharp during the first part of sit. Then was crawling with ugly images of insects on skin. Then later itching would turn into a wider tingling, bubbling sensation (usually on the head). I've noticed again this pulsating just on the left side of my left eye (is it called the blind eye that part of our head). This I had happen a few weeks back. I also had a few body twichings even during strong absorption which felt relaxed.