How enlightened were/are these people?

Joshua, modified 1 Year ago.

How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 4 Join Date: 4/9/20 Recent Posts
I got interested in meditation/spirituality a few months ago, and not long after that i discovered Daniel, Culadasa, Shinzen. The pragmatic side of meditation is just awesome! Just wanted to let that out emoticon

Before i discovered the pragmatic side, i was reading books and watching video's of Osho, Sadhguru, Eckhart Tolle etc. As i've gained a little bit of basic understanding of Buddhism, and hear Daniel talk about what it approximately looks like to be enlightened, i was wondering about these people--at what 'stage' they are, how enlightened or awakened(However you want to name it) etc.

I am curious about:

- Osho
- Sadhguru
- Eckhart Tolle
- Paramahansa Yogananda
- Mooji
- Rupert Spira

Especially curious about Osho. There is just something about him, and the things he says that just resonate deeply for some reason. Some people seem to be completely hypnotized by him lol. I heard he engaged with powers, resulting in his incredible presence and stillness. ?


It is wonderful to be here, and i am very curious what you think about these people!
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spatial, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 613 Join Date: 5/20/18 Recent Posts
I haven't watched or read enough of these people to give a really informed answer, but:

I am predisposed to be suspicious of Eckhart Tolle, given his mass-market popularity. However, my sense from watching videos of him is that he is legit. Certainly on a higher level than his wife, for example. I'm curious to hear others' opinions.

I also watched about 2 minutes of Osho after reading your post, and he seems to have a nice presence as well.
nintheye, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 228 Join Date: 11/4/18 Recent Posts
Joshua:
I got interested in meditation/spirituality a few months ago, and not long after that i discovered Daniel, Culadasa, Shinzen. The pragmatic side of meditation is just awesome! Just wanted to let that out emoticon

Before i discovered the pragmatic side, i was reading books and watching video's of Osho, Sadhguru, Eckhart Tolle etc. As i've gained a little bit of basic understanding of Buddhism, and hear Daniel talk about what it approximately looks like to be enlightened, i was wondering about these people--at what 'stage' they are, how enlightened or awakened(However you want to name it) etc.

I am curious about:

- Osho
- Sadhguru
- Eckhart Tolle
- Paramahansa Yogananda
- Mooji
- Rupert Spira

Especially curious about Osho. There is just something about him, and the things he says that just resonate deeply for some reason. Some people seem to be completely hypnotized by him lol. I heard he engaged with powers, resulting in his incredible presence and stillness. ?


It is wonderful to be here, and i am very curious what you think about these people!
Mooji's the one on that list I would trust the most. Osho also knew what he was talking about spiritually, though he had some other serious psychological issues. Sadhguru I would avoid with a ten-foot pole. Very slick and glib.
Joshua, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 4 Join Date: 4/9/20 Recent Posts
Forgive me if i am wrong about this, but is it not true that neuroticism, personality, morality, disorders have nothing to do with how enlightened a person is? Someone can be an arahant and still do what humans do, or is the person a morally, in every way, perfect being free of neurotisicm? for example.

And could you explain your disdain of Sadhguru? just curious emoticon
nintheye, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 228 Join Date: 11/4/18 Recent Posts
Joshua:
Forgive me if i am wrong about this, but is it not true that neuroticism, personality, morality, disorders have nothing to do with how enlightened a person is? Someone can be an arahant and still do what humans do, or is the person a morally, in every way, perfect being free of neurotisicm? for example.

And could you explain your disdain of Sadhguru? just curious emoticon
I mean the real reality is that there is no such thing as an enlightened person. Enlightenment is the recognition of the illusory nature of the person.

So what is really meant by questions like this is: does this person represent the energies, presence, and knowledge that seem to reflect a good teacher? Do they feel like they 'know' what they are talking about -- even though such knowledge is, strictly speaking, just an illusion?

And in that sense one can certainly judge personality, morality, etc. And certainly one can judge the shallow nature of the teachings.
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Brandon Dayton, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 496 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
I also wonder about Ram Dass. Saints and Psycopaths doesn't paint the most flattering picture of him. He comes across as being kind of naive, incompetent and petty. That was written awhile ago and Bill Hamilton admits to making many of the same errors as Ram Dass, so I don't know if things have changed since then, but that was the impression I got from the book.
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Heather MacDonald, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 31 Join Date: 3/31/11 Recent Posts
So many look for signs of "enlightenment", but how can we verify? Psychic or apparent supernatural other powers?

Well there are lots of proven psychics (just look into the scientific data/research), but none claim enlightenment.

Those with personal magnetism? Understand that one as a reflection of what we assume we lack. I mean, look at the likes of Bill Clinton. He had a magnetic personality, but was also a bit of a beast. Osho had a magnetic personality but was also irresponsible concerning what he created in his followers who went on to commit mass poisoning, mass harrassment, etc. Like so many who are repressed or impotent, he also had an enjoyment of watching others have sex. Would an enlightened being do such? Maybe, but why? Would he watch animals at it, or just let them get on with Thier actions without a second glance.

Tolle just seems very superficial and putting on an act, like that other guy who wrote all those "conversations with god" books. Very pretentious. Taking from here, there and everywhere. Talking of superficiality, Sadhguru is extremely so. His lectures on Youtube are laughable. I do think Jiddu Krishnamurti had something going for him, but again he let himself down with his "private life", and the changing of his teachings as he progressed through his life. A guru/teacher cannot do one thing and say another. If their actions do not follow their teachings their teaching is of very little value, just falling into the category of more idealistic thought rather than a living embodiment of something greater than simple physicality.

Really, you could find thousands of "enlightened teachers", but following their advice may simply be a great distraction... indeed a waste of a life. As the ancients said, know thy self. So what is it to know?
Joshua, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 4 Join Date: 4/9/20 Recent Posts
Hey Hibiscus, yes i have watched the documentary emoticon I personally think that Osho was very much misunderstood. yes, he has made some poor and irresponsible decisions, but that is just what humans do - enlightened or not. Listen to some of his lectures on youtube and i bet you cannot deny that he is extroardinary intelligent, wise and enlightened. I'm pretty new to the meditation/dharma world so i may not know what i am talking about, or i'm just under osho's spell of charm xD
And most of the bad things that happened were the doings of his followers, not himself, as you've probably seen.
Joshua, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 4 Join Date: 4/9/20 Recent Posts
Okay, i understand you. If i would have seen Osho just for his actions and depiction in documentary, alright. Listening to his spoken words, and seeing his written words tells a beautiful story, full of wisdom, told by an pristine quality of mind. There is one side of him you haven't experienced yet. man, he was such an interesting individual, i really want to share that!(my problem, i know) So, if you are interested and open to gain a more complete view of Osho, you know what to do : )
Brian, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: How enlightened were/are these people?

Posts: 93 Join Date: 1/21/19 Recent Posts
Hibiscus Kid:
I mean, I do understand that being human entails making mistakes, but accidentally fleeing my home country, starting a massive cult, trying to take over the local government and wracking up millions of dollars in personal wealth is a mistake that I have yet to make.

OK, but never lose hope. There's still time. As Osho apparently said, "Life begins where fear ends".

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