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Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?

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Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Brandon Dayton 4/29/20 12:11 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 4/29/20 12:35 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/29/20 2:02 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris Marti 4/30/20 7:37 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? agnostic 4/30/20 4:59 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/1/20 6:13 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/1/20 6:37 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? agnostic 5/1/20 8:30 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/9/20 4:02 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/9/20 8:59 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/10/20 8:00 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/10/20 8:37 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Smiling Stone 5/10/20 8:17 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/10/20 8:38 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 12:58 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Siavash 5/10/20 8:52 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/10/20 9:38 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Brandon Dayton 5/10/20 9:55 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/10/20 10:15 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Siavash 5/10/20 10:04 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Siavash 5/10/20 10:13 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/10/20 10:16 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/10/20 10:18 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Siavash 5/10/20 10:22 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Brandon Dayton 5/10/20 9:27 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 2:16 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 6:20 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 6:30 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 6:52 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 6:57 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 7:15 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 7:18 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 7:32 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Siavash 5/11/20 7:37 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 7:41 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Siavash 5/11/20 7:49 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 7:56 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 8:00 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 8:12 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 8:46 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 11:58 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Hibiscus Kid 5/11/20 12:11 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Siavash 5/11/20 12:13 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Chris Marti 5/11/20 12:15 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 12:19 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Brandon Dayton 5/11/20 12:30 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/11/20 6:51 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 4/30/20 5:24 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Siavash 4/30/20 5:58 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Tim Farrington 5/1/20 12:35 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2? Brandon Dayton 5/9/20 10:37 AM
Ok. Something is not getting transmitted correctly over the wires (not the first time this has happened over the internet). I have been using some sarcasm, and I'm well aware of the risks of doing so online, so I will fully own how that might have colored my message.

First and foremost, there is no ill intent. To the best of my ability to be aware, I am not trying to say anthing passive agressive.

The intent of my post was as a celebration of what I see about DhO that makes it great. I have a idiosyncratic philosophical view of the world that may not make that totally clear. If you're familiar with Nassim Taleb, you may have a sense of where I am at, but just to make it clear, let me explain a bit more.

I think tradition is good, and if given a choice I would rely on tradition as an answer over novelty.

That being said, when novel problems or opportunities arise, innovation becomes necessary.

That being the case, we need a culture of artists and innovators that allow us to explore, test and design new ways to do things. Failure is a necessary part of this process so it should be expected and not stigmatized.

I see DhO as part of that culture of experimentation and innovation. It's a group of practicioners at the vanguard of figuring out the potential of contemplative practice. I have nothing but the greatest admiration for those willing to engage in that work and take those risks. That being said even innovators have to be careful to not cross ethical lines in the process. That is a tough balance to strike and again, I have nothing but admiration for DhO community in this regard. If the worse thing you can say about DhO was that there was some arrogance and that people got caught up in AF, then that is very, very good in my book.

The old traditions of Buddhism have their place too. They serve an invaluable function and should be respected.

They are two cultures I respect for different reasons that are doing very different kinds of work.

As far as the term gossip goes, I think there might be something I am communicating with the term that I'm not intending. I'm being bit lighthearted with its usage (maybe getting a bit caught up in Tim F.'s colorful use of language in that case) but also being honest and straightforward about my enjoyment about hearing the details. Honestly, its the same thing that motivates me to read something like The Birth of Insight. I want to know about the community I'm a part of, the only difference is that the stuff on this thread has to do with people that are still alive and still actively creating the story.

Probably too much information, but I wanted to make sure that I was clear. 

Is there something you perceive that you think I am skirting? 

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
4/29/20 12:35 PM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
That's not too much information, Brandon. I appreciate your clarifications. Thanks!

It seems to me there are two things we can hang our hats on here:


1. The medium, that being an Internet message board system, and all of the greatness and crap that entails.

2. Pragmatic Dharma, that being a philosophy behind Buddhist and other contemplative practices that avoids "mushroom culture" and prioritizes that which works.


The combination of those two things is what's truly powerful about DhO.

Fair?

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?
Answer
4/29/20 2:02 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
I can sign on to that.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?
Answer
4/30/20 7:37 AM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
This is the new thread, split from the previous thread, which has been locked.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
4/30/20 4:59 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
I think pragmatic dharma sounds like it was a necessary antidote to mushroom culture, however it also has a bit of spiritual materialism about it (the quest for more experiences). Maybe that's just my insecurity though, or I'm misunderstanding pragmatic dharma ...

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
4/30/20 5:24 PM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
Brandon Dayton:

The intent of my post was as a celebration of what I see about DhO that makes it great. I have a idiosyncratic philosophical view of the world that may not make that totally clear. If you're familiar with Nassim Taleb, you may have a sense of where I am at . . . 

The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.  Nassim Nicholas Taleb

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
4/30/20 5:58 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:
Brandon Dayton:

The intent of my post was as a celebration of what I see about DhO that makes it great. I have a idiosyncratic philosophical view of the world that may not make that totally clear. If you're familiar with Nassim Taleb, you may have a sense of where I am at . . . 

The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.  Nassim Nicholas Taleb


Assuming Nassim Taleb doesn't have a screen (A notebook or smart phone), or is not aware of his/its addiction!

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/1/20 12:35 AM as a reply to Siavash.
Siavash:
Tim Farrington:
Brandon Dayton:

The intent of my post was as a celebration of what I see about DhO that makes it great. I have a idiosyncratic philosophical view of the world that may not make that totally clear. If you're familiar with Nassim Taleb, you may have a sense of where I am at . . . 

The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.  Nassim Nicholas Taleb


Assuming Nassim Taleb doesn't have a screen (A notebook or smart phone), or is not aware of his/its addiction!

Maybe i screwed the whole quote thing up. How about:

The four most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, a monthly salary, and Nassim Taleb.

in the interests of transperency, i am partial to all four, but i have managed to get out of heroin use and a monthly salary. So wmy working two of the most harmful addictions are carbohydrates and Nassim Taleb.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/1/20 6:13 AM as a reply to agnostic.
I think pragmatic dharma sounds like it was a necessary antidote to mushroom culture, however it also has a bit of spiritual materialism about it (the quest for more experiences). Maybe that's just my insecurity though, or I'm misunderstanding pragmatic dharma ...

Nope, you're right. The one I call "I'm going to escape humanity and be a robot" is the worst of it. 

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/1/20 6:37 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
I should add that despite its issues (everything has them), pragmatic dharma has changed things for the better (that's my opinion). People can talk much more openly now. Stuff that was previously just not done or said is out in the open.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/1/20 8:30 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Yeah it seems healthy to have a place where we can exorcise spiritual nuttiness with minimal bleed-through!

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/9/20 4:02 AM as a reply to agnostic.
emoticon
Chris Fucking Marti

I'll come back later today, after I do some real-life gig stuff, to weave some of that tale, but I can't violate any, um, confidences  
emoticon

holding you to this still, CFM.

love, tim

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/9/20 8:59 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim, when you reply to my recent e-mail, I'll spill.

Fair?

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/9/20 10:37 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
So wmy working two of the most harmful addictions are carbohydrates and Nassim Taleb.

These ones are hard to kick.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 8:00 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
My friend and former teacher Kenneth Folk speaking at the first Buddhist Geeks Conference in LA in 2012. 

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 8:37 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Here's my friend Kenneth Folk on a panel discussion about sex scandals in Buddhism. This was a different and later Buddhist Geeks Conference, maybe in 2013? I'm not sure. When you watch this video who do you think is genuine, and who do you think is full of shit?

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 8:17 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Hey Chris!
The link brings us to the buddhist geek page on youtube, not to the precise video (wink!)

edit: for the panel discussion link (I did not see the first one, it works all right)

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 8:38 AM as a reply to Smiling Stone.
Thanks for the heads up. It's fixed. I don't what I was thinking, posting that wrong shit there.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 8:52 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Here's my friend Kenneth Folk on a panel discussion about sex scandals in Buddhism. This was a different and later Buddhist Geeks Conference, maybe in 2013? I'm not sure. When you watch this video who do you think is genuine, and who do you think is full of shit?



Huh, interesting that you ask this question!

I've watched this video a few times, and I think Shinzen and Kenneth were genuine, I am not sure about the others. I didn't get any negativity from Mike but I can't say anything about him.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 9:38 AM as a reply to Siavash.
Siavash, I was there in person and I experienced a negative reaction to Diane Hamilton. To me, she came across as phony as hell.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 9:55 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
I've seen the first video of Kenneth previously and noticed he came off as pretty stiff. Is this the "I'm going to escape humanity and be a robot" thing you mentioned earlier?

The second video he seems pretty warm, but Diane Hamilton is pretty cringy any time she talks. Not sure how that connects with the previous discussion though. Is this in reference to an offline exchange with Tim or is there other context I'm missing?

BTW, I hate panel discussions. I'd much rather just listen to one thoughtful exploration of a topic at a time. I mostly just wanted to hear what Shinzen had to say. 

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 10:04 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Siavash, I was there in person and I experienced a negative reaction to Diane Hamilton. To me, she came across as phony as hell.


Thanks. I'd expect that. I had the same reaction to Diane Hamilton too, specially in the other panel discussion that they had with Shinzen, Hokai and Ken Mcleod. I couldn't understand what she was doing there. It was just wrong.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 10:13 AM as a reply to Siavash.
Siavash:
Chris Marti:
Siavash, I was there in person and I experienced a negative reaction to Diane Hamilton. To me, she came across as phony as hell.


Thanks. I'd expect that. I had the same reaction to Diane Hamilton too, specially in the other panel discussion that they had with Shinzen, Hokai and Ken Mcleod. I couldn't understand what she was doing there. It was just wrong.



Ah, I finally said this, after a few years of keeping it in my mind with anger and frustration!

Thanks Chris for bringing this up!

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 10:15 AM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
Brandon, I think Kenneth was just nervous. I don't think he'd ever before done a public speech in front of a few hundred people.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 10:16 AM as a reply to Siavash.
Ah, I finally said this, after a few years of keeping it in my mind with anger and frustration!

Happy to help you shed those pounds!

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 10:18 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
At some point here I'll post a short comment about meeting Hokai for the first time, and some related BG stuff.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/10/20 10:22 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
At some point here I'll post a short comment about meeting Hokai for the first time, and some related BG stuff.


I'll be waiting with excitement!

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
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5/10/20 9:27 PM as a reply to Siavash.
I had to do quite a bit of skipping around to get to anything good in that video.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 12:58 AM as a reply to Smiling Stone.
Smiling Stone:
Hey Chris!
The link brings us to the buddhist geek page on youtube, not to the precise video (wink!)

edit: for the panel discussion link (I did not see the first one, it works all right)

I thought KF was pretty charming in the talk i ended up with from the first wrong shit link. But i confess i had no idea why i was there in particular. It was a lovely taste of a visionary man at the top of his game.

Chris Fucking Marti
Thanks for the heads up. It's fixed. I don't what I was thinking, posting that wrong shit there.
well, gosh, Chris, that'll teach me to leap in on your flimsy offerings while you're still fucking around, man. You think i've got nothing to do all day but sit around watching fucking videos until you manage to post the right shit?

Well, i don't have anything else to do all day, as a matter of fact (saving you making the point, in a reply). Good point (saving my reply to ypur reply).

Hope your visit yesterday was full of love and peace and a heart full of gratitude for what your parents gave you.

love, tim

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 2:16 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Here's my friend Kenneth Folk on a panel discussion about sex scandals in Buddhism. This was a different and later Buddhist Geeks Conference, maybe in 2013? I'm not sure. When you watch this video who do you think is genuine, and who do you think is full of shit?
Chris, I love this widening of the net of history, in our discussion of Schism, Growing Up Gentler, and Other Tales from the Practice Life of DhO: this little gem on what can be successfully swept under the carpet for the Greater Good, and when it is time to just accept the shit sandwich and chow down, in the absence of alternatives.
When you watch this video who do you think is genuine, and who do you think is full of shit?

Now that's my kind of spiritual question.

The first words out of Shinzen’s mouth, asking what shadow practice Diane Hamilton is asking them to agree to practice as part of the
program, and joking about, “I mean, ‘informed consent’ . . .” is pure upaya: hilarious, ice-breaking, setting a much less icy and human we're-all-in-this-together tone after Hamilton’s carefully crafted intro from on high, with its several passive-aggressive barbs nicely hidden beneath an analytical tone of "let’s all take a good step back from our teachers abusing and harassing people, sexually and otherwise, and look immediately into our hearts to realize that we’re all shits, and the betrayal of truth and responsibility by these revered but Unfortunately Not Perfect Realized Beings Who Give a Bad Name To All of Us Realized Beings and so are Bad for Business," and its patent agenda that the panel discussion can be largely diverted into meditation on our own unceasing failures, and possibly even lead fruitfully to blaming the victims (who are, after all, as the theme so far would have it, so not perfect themselves, and possibly even were Begging For It) enough to keep the offending assholes less tainted by open discussion at length, perhaps even with some remnant of viable credibility, while reassuring people that Realized Beings are in fact a concept still worth shit, in light of these people’s immoral and harmful behavior.

I’m 2 minutes and 15 seconds in. I hate homework. I hate lectures. I hate talking heads, even if i love the heads in question.

In the interest of full disclosure and in light of honoring Hamilton’s defense mechanisms and stipulating that We All Are Shits, Not Just
These Disciple-Fucking Gurus, Rinpoches, and Assorted Spiritual Honcho Assholes, i had my own share of sexual scandal in my teaching writing gig, and ended up getting fired for it (in conjunction with a manic episode to beat the band with its own drum sticks). Ironically the accuser who brought the house of cards down was not someone i had ever done anything with but joke with chaste and if very poor taste fondness, and i thought in mutual humor about the joke being more or les on me, about leaving her husband (they were both in their late 60s, and i thought beyond such stuff) and running off with me to the islands, when she would join me on my solitary leper smoke breaks despite the fact that she didn’t smoke. But I was just out of the psych hospital when they fired me, and they didn’t name my accuser at the time, so i just ate it and went down in a heap of shame.

I only found out her name because she eventually came on her own steam to the footloose free lance writing group i carried on afterward with students prepared to ignore the fact that i was a clinical psychotic and noted sexual predator, joined up, and confided at some point to her classmates, that, Oh yes, that accuser was me. They wanted to kill her, by all accounts; but I laughed and said, Ain’t life funny, then. She still went out to join me on my solitary smoke breaks! I kept her on in the class for a while anyway, disgruntling a number of the other students, but eventually it was clear that she was going to cash in her alone-with-Tim-and-he-apparently-finds me-irresistible chips with the others in the class, at which point with all fondness and respect for our love for the ages, and all our history together, i was moved to suggest to her that perhaps mine was not the right class for her to continue her writing education. In any case, the fact that i could not
narrow down who my accuser of sexual harassment might have been spoke volumes in itself. There had been plenty of shit on my part, and that i got fired, technically speaking, for shit i didn’t actually do seemed to me perfect poetic justice on Karma’s part, and more evidence, as if i needed any by then, of Karma’s black and wicked sense of humor in delivering the goods.

If Diane keeps asking that we all examine our own hearts and faults and flaws and fuckups before we're allowed to discuss sexually predatory behavior in our spiritual front men, i may never get more than a few minutes into this thing. The woman is a genius: tie the hands of the people best prepared to actually see the this shit clearly, the honest practitioners. Hell yeah my own life is a dukha machine. Good point. Back to the mat. And the shit goes on, as unexamined as wallpaperers like Hamilton can manage it.

Jesus, this video fucking LONG. Fuck you, Marti. i’m only going to slog on far enough, hopefully, to get a take on all the participants re: bullshit, authentic, or time server? and then, to the mat.


love, tim

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 6:20 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Now that's my kind of spiritual question.

And you didn't even have to listen to the whole thing  emoticon

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 6:30 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
At the first BG conference in LA, I had my first face to face meeting with my friend Gozen, who lived in New Mexico at the time. He's a Zen priest and had his own sangha in Las Cruces. We would get up and go to a local coffee shop before the conference started, We were sitting in there with our coffee that first morning, talking, and something Gozen said got me a bit riled up. I started gesticulating with my hands, only to swipe a full, large cup of hot latte into Gozen's lap.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 6:51 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Now that's my kind of spiritual question.

And you didn't even have to listen to the whole thing  emoticon

well, like you, i realize how precious time is, in this hell-hole. Too much distraction and we forget that we gotta figure this inferno out, not listen to chumps and sages yak.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 6:52 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
At the first BG conference in LA, I had my first face to face meeting with my friend Gozen, who lived in New Mexico at the time. He's a Zen priest and had his own sangha in Las Cruces. We would get up and go to a local coffee shop before the conference started, We were sitting in there with our coffee that first morning, talking, and something Gozen said got me a bit riled up. I started gesticulating with my hands, only to swipe a full, large cup of hot latte into Gozen's lap.

and that wise, satori-ed Roshi did what?

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 6:57 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
When the latte hit the spot he jumped up a yelled. I don't recall exactly what he exclaimed but let's just say it was, "KATZ!" We left the coffee shop, Gozen changed his clothes and I took the latte laden ones to a local dry cleaner and paid the bill.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 7:15 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
When the latte hit the spot he jumped up a yelled. I don't recall exactly what he exclaimed but let's just say it was, "KATZ!" We left the coffee shop, Gozen changed his clothes and I took the latte laden ones to a local dry cleaner and paid the bill.
and were you instantly enlightened by that shout?

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 7:18 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Instantly enlightened to the humanity of Gozen. I mean, come on, a real Zen Master would have managed to evade that latte. 

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 7:32 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Instantly enlightened to the humanity of Gozen. I mean, come on, a real Zen Master would have managed to evade that latte. 

you may be confusing Zen with martial arts. Many of the zen masters i've seen are not, shall we say, the quickest on their feet; not a lot of point guards among them, if you know what i mean. It's all that sitting, maybe, but these guys generally move slow.

I would have been properly impressed with this zen master if he had simply continued to sit there without blinking as the coffee hit. Better still, if he had looked up at your horrified face and grinned, and said, "Please sir, may I have another?"

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 7:37 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
I would have been properly impressed with this zen master if he had simply continued to sit there without blinking as the coffee hit. Better still, if he had looked up at your horrified face and grinned, and said, "Please sir, may I have another?"


Beautiful.
I'd preferred to see this too, from a Zen Master.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
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5/11/20 7:41 AM as a reply to Siavash.
Sorry, but no. You both suffer from too much conventional thinking. A real Zen Master sees the spill coming well before it happens. Waaaay before. No spill at all. 

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 7:49 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Sorry, but no. You both suffer from too much conventional thinking. A real Zen Master sees the spill coming well before it happens. Waaaay before. No spill at all. 


I didn't mean that all zen masters should be like that, or that that's the right way! Not at all.
But I think it's good to have a few that are like that. It doesn't hurt I think to have some crazy ones like that emoticon

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 7:56 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Sorry, but no. You both suffer from too much conventional thinking. A real Zen Master sees the spill coming well before it happens. Waaaay before. No spill at all. 


Horseshit. With all due respect. What a Zen master sees coming is not necessarily some penny ante shit like whether somebody spills something on him, which is a waste of mind processing time to be super alert for in a cafe, which is not exactly the Amazon rainforest full of snakes. His eye is on different dots, the dots that matter, and yes, he sees the shit coming long before it hits the fan in those areas. But don't make these guys into Marvel Superheroes unless you've got a six-figure deal movie deal on that fantasy, and include me as the screenwriter.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 8:00 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
I can see now, Tim, that you just don't have enough experience with Zen Masters. Their uber-alertness is always on. Always on!

I'll see if Gozen has an agent, then we'll talk.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 8:12 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
I can see now, Tim, that you just don't have enough experience with Zen Masters. Their uber-alertness is always on. Always on!

I'll see if Gozen has an agent, then we'll talk.

True enough. Obviously it's minor leaguers I've encountered, like Baker Roshi in the 80s at the Page Street Center, where he missed that cup of coffee coming bad.

Six figures for the screenwriter, too, man. 

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 8:46 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
emoticon

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 11:58 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
The day before the hot latte on the pants incident, Gozen and I had just arrived in LA, met at LAX and decided to eat lunch at a local restaurant near the Buddhist Geels Conference location. As we sat there, in walked Vince Horn and Hokai Sobol. Or maybe they were there first. I can't recall the details. None of us had met face to face before so we sort of eyed each other across the room and waited until after everyone ate to say something. We ambled up to each other and shook hands and did all that happy, glad to meet you stuff. I immediately noticed Hokai's presence. Some people have it and he had a lot of it. When he enters a room there's an energy that emanates and without even seeing him come in, there's already a different vibe. He's got some kind of gravitas. Hard to put into words but when you feel it, you know it. I suspect he can turn it on and off, but I'm not sure.

Willoughby Britton was attending that first year and she was presenting something or other from the stage. I think it was the result of a breakout session. She was an unknown at that time, just getting into the stuff she's now famous for. A new meditator and a new researcher into the dark side of mediation. Hokai was in charge of the microphone, or the Q&A, or something like that. His presence very palpable, of course. Willoughby sees Hokai pick up the microphone and she just freaks out. She's shaking, sort of, and says something like, "He scares me." Hokai sees what's happening and tries to reassure her. But it's too late. She's more or less become a puddle of goo on stage.

This little vignette isn't meant to be about Willoughby, but about Hokai. A lot of folks would have had that same reaction.

One more: The breakout sessions that year were self-directed and the topics were suggested, and chosen by, the attendees. You were to write a topic down and sticky note it up on a wall so that others could join your group discussion, if they so desired. I was standing in front of the sticky notes and Hokai came up beside me, read the note that said, "Separating the head from the heart." He stared at the note for a few seconds, leaned over to me, and said, "I didn't know this conference featured a class on dissection."

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 12:11 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
I've experienced a certain energy/presence when hanging out with a few highly attained meditators. There is just something different and I can't put my finger on it or how to describe it.

Then again, I realize it could just be projection. I also noticed a lack of the same feeling when hanging out with other presumably highly attained practitioners so my radar is probably faulty. 

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 12:13 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
The day before the hot latte on the pants incident, Gozen and I had just arrived in LA, met at LAX and decided to eat lunch at a local restaurant near the Buddhist Geels Conference location. As we sat there, in walked Vince Horn and Hokai Sobol. Or maybe they were there first. I can't recall the details. None of us had met face to face before so we sort of eyed each other across the room and waited until after everyone ate to say something. We ambled up to each other and shook hands and did all that happy, glad to meet you stuff. I immediately noticed Hokai's presence. Some people have it and he had a lot of it. When he enters a room there's an energy that emanates and without even seeing him come in, there's already a different vibe. He's got some kind of gravitas. Hard to put into words but when you feel it, you know it. I suspect he can turn it on and off, but I'm not sure.

Willoughby Britton was attending that first year and she was presenting something or other from the stage. I think it was the result of a breakout session. She was an unknown at that time, just getting into the stuff she's now famous for. A new meditator and a new researcher into the dark side of mediation. Hokai was in charge of the microphone, or the Q&A, or something like that. His presence very palpable, of course. Willoughby sees Hokai pick up the microphone and she just freaks out. She's shaking, sort of, and says something like, "He scares me." Hokai sees what's happening and tries to reassure her. But it's too late. She's more or less become a puddle of goo on stage.

This little vignette isn't meant to be about Willoughby, but about Hokai. A lot of folks would have had that same reaction.

One more: The breakout sessions that year were self-directed and the topics were suggested, and chosen by, the attendees. You were to write a topic down and sticky note it up on a wall so that others could join your group discussion, if they so desired. I was standing in front of the sticky notes and Hokai came up beside me, read the note that said, "Separating the head from the heart." He stared at the note for a few seconds, leaned over to me, and said, "I didn't know this conference featured a class on dissection."


Woah,
Thanks for sharing this.

A few times Daniel has mentioned power when talking about Hokai, saying something like "someone with such power...", is he talking about this presence thing, or maybe something else?

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 12:15 PM as a reply to Siavash.
... is he talking about this presence thing, or maybe something else?

Maybe, but I really don't know.

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 12:19 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
The day before the hot latte on the pants incident, Gozen and I had just arrived in LA, met at LAX and decided to eat lunch at a local restaurant near the Buddhist Geels Conference location. As we sat there, in walked Vince Horn and Hokai Sobol. Or maybe they were there first. I can't recall the details. None of us had met face to face before so we sort of eyed each other across the room and waited until after everyone ate to say something. We ambled up to each other and shook hands and did all that happy, glad to meet you stuff. I immediately noticed Hokai's presence. Some people have it and he had a lot of it. When he enters a room there's an energy that emanates and without even seeing him come in, there's already a different vibe. He's got some kind of gravitas. Hard to put into words but when you feel it, you know it. I suspect he can turn it on and off, but I'm not sure.




oh yes, this is pure gold. Pour that man another drink, somebody, quick. Here, I'll do it. On me. I've got this guy's whole tab tonight, his money's no good here.
Willoughby Britton was attending that first year and she was presenting something or other from the stage. I think it was the result of a breakout session. She was an unknown at that time, just getting into the stuff she's now famous for. A new meditator and a new researcher into the dark side of mediation. Hokai was in charge of the microphone, or the Q&A, or something like that. His presence very palpable, of course. Willoughby sees Hokai pick up the microphone and she just freaks out. She's shaking, sort of, and says something like, "He scares me." Hokai sees what's happening and tries to reassure her. But it's too late. She's more or less become a puddle of goo on stage.
She's come a long way, then. She held up beautifully in a long video chat with Daniel a while back. I had no idea she was a long time geek, that is so cool. She's got the institutional state of the art going up there in Rhode Island, even though they chicken-shitted out and changed the name from The Dark Night Project" to "Varieties of Meditative Experience," presumably for funding purposes.
This little vignette isn't meant to be about Willoughby, but about Hokai. A lot of folks would have had that same reaction.
I peronally might have thrown my panties at the stage.
One more: The breakout sessions that year were self-directed and the topics were suggested, and chosen by, the attendees. You were to write a topic down and sticky note it up on a wall so that others could join your group discussion, if they so desired. I was standing in front of the sticky notes and Hokai came up beside me, read the note that said, "Separating the head from the heart." He stared at the note for a few seconds, leaned over to me, and said, "I didn't know this conference featured a class on dissection."
Be still, my heart.

love, tim

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs Part 2?
Answer
5/11/20 12:30 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Just FYI, It's best to imagine these anectdotes as spoken in a folksy, western drawl.