When doing Kasina meditation, ( watching the candle flame) does one experience the five qualities that one experiences when doing the breath meditation such as applied thought, sustained thought, rapture, happiness and one pointedness of mind?

Secondly, if one has been doing Anapana meditation previously and had experienced the 4th jhana, and later changed on to the Kasina meditation, would the rapture and happiness come up again?

Thanking you in advance.

with metta

Hi Natasha,

Yes, those factors could arise while staring at a kasina. The applied and sustained thought is what you are doing by staring at the kasina. Rapture and happiness will then arise with continued staring and directing the mind (thought) towards the chosen object. You might sense a flurry of pleasant vibrations in the body and resultant upswing in mood. This was my own experience. When I sensed the pleasantness arising within the body, I closed my eyes and shifted focus to that pleasantness, and, in a sense, rode the pleasantness into the 2nd jhana. Alternatively, you could close your eyes and stare at the negative image that results from staring at the kasina until it fades or a mental image of it that may remain with eyes closed, and get more absorbed into the 1st jhana. This is what I did too.

For the second question, I don't see why the rapture and happiness would not come up again if you have already carved out a path up to the 4th jhana. Technically if you have accessed the 4th jhana already via anapana, then using a kasina may be a breeze to get back there, with all the same factors in place as when you used anapana. This also was my own experience.

This is what I did when using a kasina. It worked well for me for all jhana access, in particular making them a more absorbed and highly concentrated experience.

http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/nicks-current-candle-flame-kasina.html


Nick

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your response. I have come to a stage, where I can see a small black dot within the white, which now disappears,and the white remains.

The reason for my second question was due to the fact that when doing Anapana sati, watching the breath, which calmed down after a while, I used to feel very light in the body and light in the mind. There was happiness which later subsided, and just bliss.But doing the Kasina, I don't get those feelings.

Right now, I am not quite well, and hence was wondering, if this could be interfering with the meditation.

If you would like to know more details of what I have experienced so far, you can access it at

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/668074


Thanking you.

with metta

Not everyone gets the bodily sensations, bliss, rapture, etc with the kasina objects, and it is still possible to be deep in jhana without those, just not paying attention to the body, which is the domain of bliss, rapture, etc. If you are really with the visuals, then those bodily aspects may be quite subtle or not there at all, with this dependent on the exclusive nature of the color-centered concentration.

Daniel

Daniel,

Thank you for your response. The sentence " just not paying attention to the body" is exactly what has been going on. I am in quite a bit of pain, and hence, I use this in order to gain concentration and take the mind away from the body.

Thank you once again.

with metta