Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago.

Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 958 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
I have had difficulty understanding the progress of insight until now when I have I found Ron Couch's web site. I posted about it in another thread but am creating a thread for it because I think it deserves one. I find searching the forums difficult but I was unable to find a simlar thread but there may be one. Anyway here is my post from the other thread.


https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/21614790#_19_message_21614790


Jim Smith:
Ron Crouch has (had) a web site on the progress of insight that I find very easy to understand and I highly recommend it.

A few hours after I first found the site I started getting an error page saying the site was deleted, but it is on the wayback machine:

Path (overview of the stages)
https://web.archive.org/web/20141020082643/http://alohadharma.wordpress.com/the-map/

Stages 1-3 - Ron groups these as the The Physio-Cognitive stages
https://web.archive.org/web/20150315043143/http://alohadharma.com/the-map/the-physio-cognitive-stage/

A&P stage 4
https://web.archive.org/web/20121116093448/http://alohadharma.wordpress.com/2011/06/04/the-ap/

Dark Night stages 5 - 10
https://web.archive.org/web/20121116234857/http://alohadharma.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/the-dark-night/

Equanimity stage 11
https://web.archive.org/web/20141019102026/http://alohadharma.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/equanimity/

Cessation stages 12 -17
https://web.archive.org/web/20150315043206/http://alohadharma.com/2011/06/29/cessation/
shargrol, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 1536 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
I'm glad you found a way to access the old pages, those are very good, aren't they? I was going to link to those, but like you said, the links were dead (or maybe the links were corrupted by some malware -- my virus checker was giving me a warning). 

Since you like Ron's stuff, you would also like Kenneth Folk's "Contemplative Fitness" writings which are also somewhere on the net. 

Now here's a fun fact: Ron Crouch, Chris Marti, and Shargrol all hung out together in Chicago and we all worked with Kenneth Folk for part of our practice history. Ahh, memories!  emoticon
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Niels Lyngsø, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 319 Join Date: 11/15/19 Recent Posts
I also found Ron Crouch's text on the stages of insight tremendously informative – probably the single text among the many hundred pages on this subject that I have read that made most sense to me. Luckily it has been preserved in pdf-format (together with Kenneth Folk's excellent take on the same subjekt). Other good stuff can be found there as well:

https://atrahhdis.github.io/


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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 958 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Niels Lyngsø:
I also found Ron Crouch's text on the stages of insight tremendously informative – probably the single text among the many hundred pages on this subject that I have read that made most sense to me. Luckily it has been preserved in pdf-format (together with Kenneth Folk's excellent take on the same subjekt). Other good stuff can be found there as well:

https://atrahhdis.github.io/



Is there anything that explains 2nd, 3rd, 4th paths? I am not clear on why the stages repeat multiple times. Is there anything on-line that explains that?

Thanks
shargrol, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 1536 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-iv-insight/36-beyond-first-path-what-next/


https://shargrolpostscompilation.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html   (see middle and higher paths section)
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Dream Walker, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 1329 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Jim Smith:

Is there anything that explains 2nd, 3rd, 4th paths? I am not clear on why the stages repeat multiple times. Is there anything on-line that explains that?

Thanks
Not to toot my own ego horn too much, but here is my take on paths -

A Framework of Awakening

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5800908

It is a work in progress.....
~D
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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 958 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Is there a name it for when you combine high equanimity vibrations with jhana meditation?
shargrol, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 1536 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
there might be an answer, say more. how are you characterizing high equanimity vibrations (versus vibrations in other nanas) and how are you characterizing jhana meditation in this question.
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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 958 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
shargrol:
there might be an answer, say more. how are you characterizing high equanimity vibrations (versus vibrations in other nanas) and how are you characterizing jhana meditation in this question.
My question was hypothetical. What might be the answer?
shargrol, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 1536 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Jim Smith:
shargrol:
there might be an answer, say more. how are you characterizing high equanimity vibrations (versus vibrations in other nanas) and how are you characterizing jhana meditation in this question.
My question was hypothetical. What might be the answer?

Well, my hunch was that you were asking a bullshit question, honestly.

Don't waste people's time, okay?
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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 958 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
shargrol:
Jim Smith:
shargrol:
there might be an answer, say more. how are you characterizing high equanimity vibrations (versus vibrations in other nanas) and how are you characterizing jhana meditation in this question.
My question was hypothetical. What might be the answer?

Well, my hunch was that you were asking a bullshit question, honestly.

Don't waste people's time, okay?
I'm sorry you feel that way. I had a reason I didn't want to make the question personal. 
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Olivier, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 731 Join Date: 4/27/19 Recent Posts
Seriously.

Don't. waste. people's. time.

Especially Shargrol's.


emoticonemoticon
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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 958 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Jim Smith:
Is there a name it for when you combine high equanimity vibrations with jhana meditation?

samathayanika:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/gunaratana/wheel351.html
The samathayanika is a meditator who first attains access concentration or one of the eight mundane jhanas, then emerges and uses his attainment as a basis for cultivating insight until he arrives at the supramundane path.
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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 958 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Jim Smith:
Jim Smith:
Is there a name it for when you combine high equanimity vibrations with jhana meditation?

samathayanika:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/gunaratana/wheel351.html
The samathayanika is a meditator who first attains access concentration or one of the eight mundane jhanas, then emerges and uses his attainment as a basis for cultivating insight until he arrives at the supramundane path.


There is a diagram showing parallel paths of samatha jhanas and stages of insight. I suppose for some people, it might work well for them to cross over at some point from one to the other.


http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/506fcc5c84aefb9a79a610b3/1349504092518/Pathways.jpg
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Siavash, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 1227 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Jim, Daniel talks about and explains that diagram in detail in this video:


https://vimeo.com/69475208
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 5375 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Yes, Jim, investigating the jhanas is a valid path. It might involve letting go of one's view of them. Do you think you're prepared to do that?
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Brandon Dayton, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: Ron Crouch's easy to understand explanation of the Progress of Insight.

Posts: 474 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
Thanks for posting these. Reading these descriptions of the path from various practicioners is always comforting in reminding me that I am not crazy.

Just FYI, I checked this morning, and the links you posted are included in the Ron Crouch PDF from the https://atrahhdis.github.io/ link that Niels posted. You can download it as an ebook or pdf if you'd rather not rely on the wayback machine. Really great stuff.

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