What chance do I have ?

What chance do I have ? es pro 9/8/20 6:25 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? George S 9/8/20 10:54 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? SushiK 9/9/20 4:08 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/9/20 10:11 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Z . 9/9/20 3:27 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/9/20 9:59 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/10/20 12:31 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 7:08 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 10:11 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 10:12 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 10:26 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 10:34 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 10:36 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 10:37 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 11:09 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 11:44 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 12:04 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 12:22 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 12:48 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 12:42 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 12:35 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 3:00 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/10/20 2:06 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 2:50 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/10/20 2:54 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/10/20 3:01 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 3:40 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/10/20 3:51 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 10:03 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? SushiK 9/10/20 10:01 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 10:10 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? George S 9/10/20 10:36 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/10/20 10:50 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/10/20 11:17 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/11/20 6:58 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/11/20 9:37 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/11/20 6:21 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Jarrett 9/11/20 6:56 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/11/20 9:35 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Olivier S 9/11/20 11:54 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/12/20 4:14 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/12/20 8:13 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/12/20 10:29 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/12/20 10:29 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Jarrett 9/12/20 10:29 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/13/20 12:52 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/13/20 11:43 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/13/20 1:48 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/13/20 1:48 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/13/20 2:24 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/13/20 2:17 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/13/20 3:50 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 12:24 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Petrik Schill 9/14/20 1:13 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 1:21 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 1:24 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 3:08 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 4:19 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 4:24 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 4:33 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 4:37 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 4:44 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 4:47 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 5:02 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 5:09 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 5:29 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 5:38 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 6:38 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 6:47 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 6:49 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/14/20 6:54 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/14/20 10:13 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/15/20 3:21 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/15/20 6:39 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/15/20 11:39 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/16/20 7:52 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/16/20 10:19 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? SushiK 9/16/20 11:10 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/17/20 12:26 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/17/20 11:12 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/17/20 12:48 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/17/20 1:12 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/17/20 2:00 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/17/20 9:19 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/17/20 10:44 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/17/20 11:25 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/18/20 12:04 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/18/20 12:12 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/18/20 5:42 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/18/20 6:01 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/19/20 9:59 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/19/20 10:09 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/19/20 11:29 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/19/20 11:32 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/19/20 11:54 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/19/20 1:14 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/19/20 1:18 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Papa Che Dusko 9/19/20 1:52 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/19/20 2:31 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Papa Che Dusko 9/19/20 3:25 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/20/20 12:44 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Papa Che Dusko 9/20/20 2:38 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/20/20 8:59 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Papa Che Dusko 9/20/20 9:13 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/20/20 9:36 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/20/20 2:25 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/20/20 2:28 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Olivier S 9/20/20 2:34 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/20/20 3:22 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/20/20 4:04 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/20/20 4:25 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/21/20 12:10 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/21/20 5:01 PM
PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/22/20 11:24 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/22/20 3:40 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/22/20 7:06 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/23/20 5:17 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/24/20 7:13 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/24/20 7:34 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/24/20 8:30 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? shargrol 9/24/20 8:50 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/24/20 8:48 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/24/20 11:30 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/24/20 2:00 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/25/20 8:58 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/24/20 2:31 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/25/20 11:38 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/26/20 2:54 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/26/20 3:08 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/26/20 9:40 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/26/20 11:00 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/26/20 12:50 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/26/20 12:56 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/26/20 1:08 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/26/20 2:24 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Laurel Carrington 9/26/20 3:31 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/26/20 6:12 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/26/20 9:31 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Papa Che Dusko 9/27/20 9:06 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 9:10 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/27/20 9:20 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Papa Che Dusko 9/27/20 9:28 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/28/20 2:34 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/28/20 3:44 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/27/20 10:05 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/27/20 10:21 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/27/20 10:16 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/27/20 10:38 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 10:59 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/27/20 12:08 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 12:08 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/27/20 3:08 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 3:21 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/27/20 3:26 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/27/20 4:12 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? shargrol 9/27/20 4:36 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/27/20 6:42 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 7:48 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/27/20 7:54 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 8:03 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/27/20 9:06 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/28/20 12:01 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/28/20 12:41 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/28/20 12:33 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/28/20 12:37 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/28/20 1:39 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/28/20 2:23 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Papa Che Dusko 9/28/20 2:48 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/28/20 12:09 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/28/20 7:36 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? SushiK 9/28/20 2:20 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/28/20 3:16 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Edward 9/27/20 10:45 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/27/20 10:48 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/27/20 11:01 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Chris M 9/27/20 9:15 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Siavash ' 9/26/20 11:30 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/27/20 3:17 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 5:27 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/27/20 8:28 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 8:50 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/27/20 11:11 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/27/20 11:59 AM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Ni Nurta 9/27/20 2:49 PM
RE: PRE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/27/20 11:50 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? shargrol 9/24/20 8:13 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Papa Che Dusko 9/18/20 3:23 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Jarrett 9/12/20 10:34 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/12/20 10:41 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Jarrett 9/12/20 10:47 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/12/20 12:52 PM
RE: What chance do I have ? es pro 9/13/20 10:42 AM
RE: What chance do I have ? Tim Farrington 9/11/20 5:05 AM
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/8/20 6:25 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/8/20 5:12 PM

What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Hi there, sorry for all the posts and for being so whiny, I am apparently just desperate for consolation. Most ppl on this forum (and even Daniel Ingram) think what is happening to me is a classic dark night. I think it is a painful result of not surrendering to fear that came up, and of some really stupid mistakes (suicide attempts+accidental dismantling of psychic structure via meditation). I was dancing, singing, laughing all the time, until before I know it I became empty inside. But yeah basically I cannot see the other side and although I felt as though an angel was with me the other day insisting it is possible, the odds are not in my favour and here's why.
1) first and foremost, my breath is not automatic anymore as some people may have read. I think it's a result of this ego death thing I caused- surfacing all the unconscious parts of my mind incl the action of breathing. Why do I think it's a problem? From my discoveries, love happens when there is absence of craving and aversion; when there is no self. My self is there in every breath.
2) since the ego death thing things have gotten worse to a paramount extent. In April and May I was socializing, laughing, dancing, cooking (albeit still suffering) and after June I stopped doing all of that and just became a joyless zombie and my sense of humour is fully GONE. The only things I enjoy doing are playing volleyball, eating, and looking at old messages cuz I am so infatuated with my old self it's disgusting. Like at this point I am WAITING for my self to come back but only feel further and further from it.
3) my heart has nothing left in it really. Hugging my mom, cuddling with my cat, does nothing for me.
4) I have no more awareness of my body really, it's like full dissociation
5) I have no more ego sense of self ie might as well be high on mushrooms all the time (and even one trip traumatized me badly)
6) the grasping for love and equanimity is CONSTANT. Every loving interaction, cuddle, cry, there's the part of me that's grasping hoping it's that Big Bang heart opening that happened before.

I mean I want to listen to that angel you know but the way things have progressed points toward failure only. How could I ever progress back to equanimity? I have gone thru this dark night before, certain I'd be separate from love and equanimity forever , but things were different back then. Only one trauma instead of daily, heart still had some goodness within, and I was NOT grasping for love. Maybe once every couple weeks I'd worry about love and equanimity instead of literally around the clock. My heart then opened while kissing someone (I posted about it here a few years ago, what a time) and now my brain wants to recreate that moment cuz it thinks it will happen again. But seriously what chance do I have?! Like, what needs to happen is some sort of surrender, but my ego is getting only stronger and even my breath is an ego involved action now.
Some really kind people have posted things saying they've gone thru similar things and come out of it but most of my mind is in doubt right now, and thinks I am the only person in the world who this is happening to so severely. Are we SURE it's a dark night? -it isn't the presence of emotional pain, it's the absence of ANY feelings at all that is distressing .
thanks.. again....
George S, modified 1 Year ago at 9/8/20 10:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/8/20 10:54 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2458 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I'm sorry ES, I don't know your history and it sounds like you are suffering a lot. But all I can say from reading your post is that feelings come and go, so getting attached to them will invariably cause suffering. I'm pretty sure we've all been through some variation of this AND thought our particular version was unique and the worst in some way AND many of us have come out the other side and can confidently tell you that it will pass if you just hang in there, give it time and keep investigating.
Best wishes 
George
thumbnail
SushiK, modified 1 Year ago at 9/9/20 4:08 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/9/20 4:08 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 157 Join Date: 6/11/20 Recent Posts
Hi Es Pro, 

A few people with much more knowledge than me commented on your previous post and gave you some advise.
Did you try any of it since?

I know you think it won't help but what is the opportunity cost? Give it a try and if it doesn't get better just let us know and they might have some other suggestions :-)

The only things I enjoy doing are playing volleyball
You still enjoy playing volleyball which is a good thing :-)
4) I have no more awareness of my body really, it's like full dissociation

Don't you have awareness of your body when you play?
it's the absence of ANY feelings at all that is distressing 
 Same thing, what do you feel whenever you play?

I wish you well Es.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/9/20 10:11 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/9/20 9:59 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Thanks.. no I didn't try any of the advice cuz I'm Quite sure none of it can lead me to the love I seek.. I don't know what will...grace itself 
i barely feel anything when I play volleyball! And very very little body awareness.

and about this passing..well. It isn't about some painful sensation that needs to pass, it's more the opposite of love and equanimity... which isn't really guaranteed to pass :|
thumbnail
Z , modified 1 Year ago at 9/9/20 3:27 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/9/20 11:01 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 200 Join Date: 3/16/18 Recent Posts
Hi es pro, 

My advice at this point would be to just keep going. It could take a long time for everything to settle and work itself out, it will require a lot of patience and resilience to endure this difficult period.

I think writing and journaling could also be helpful for you to do. You could do it on this site or privately in your own notebook. Every day, as much as you want, just keep writing out everything that is coming into your mind: your doubts, your fears, your suspicions, your ideas, anything that comes to mind. Just keep pouring it out. You could even try challenging certain thought patterns and beliefs you may have, writing out counter-arguments and so forth. You could fill up pages and pages doing this. There is something about seeing its thoughts written out that can help the mind let go and relax a bit around certain intense patterns and emotions. 

Keep playing volleyball, keep cooking, keep spending time with your mother and cat even if it doesn't feel like it used to. Keep seeing your therapist and working with them. Maybe conditions will change at some point down the line. 
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/9/20 9:59 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/9/20 9:59 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Thank you...I really fucking hope so. Time has not been my friend at ALL, only feeling more fragmented every day, but perhaps some miracle or divine grace will fall into my lap. 
I was doing morning pages for awhile ..
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:31 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:31 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
es pro:
Hi there, sorry for all the posts and for being so whiny, I am apparently just desperate for consolation. Most ppl on this forum (and even Daniel Ingram) think what is happening to me is a classic dark night. I think it is a painful result of not surrendering to fear that came up, and of some really stupid mistakes (suicide attempts+accidental dismantling of psychic structure via meditation). I was dancing, singing, laughing all the time, until before I know it I became empty inside. But yeah basically I cannot see the other side and although I felt as though an angel was with me the other day insisting it is possible, the odds are not in my favour and here's why.
1) first and foremost, my breath is not automatic anymore as some people may have read. I think it's a result of this ego death thing I caused- surfacing all the unconscious parts of my mind incl the action of breathing. Why do I think it's a problem? From my discoveries, love happens when there is absence of craving and aversion; when there is no self. My self is there in every breath.
2) since the ego death thing things have gotten worse to a paramount extent. In April and May I was socializing, laughing, dancing, cooking (albeit still suffering) and after June I stopped doing all of that and just became a joyless zombie and my sense of humour is fully GONE. The only things I enjoy doing are playing volleyball, eating, and looking at old messages cuz I am so infatuated with my old self it's disgusting. Like at this point I am WAITING for my self to come back but only feel further and further from it.
3) my heart has nothing left in it really. Hugging my mom, cuddling with my cat, does nothing for me.
4) I have no more awareness of my body really, it's like full dissociation
5) I have no more ego sense of self ie might as well be high on mushrooms all the time (and even one trip traumatized me badly)
6) the grasping for love and equanimity is CONSTANT. Every loving interaction, cuddle, cry, there's the part of me that's grasping hoping it's that Big Bang heart opening that happened before.

I mean I want to listen to that angel you know but the way things have progressed points toward failure only. How could I ever progress back to equanimity? I have gone thru this dark night before, certain I'd be separate from love and equanimity forever , but things were different back then. Only one trauma instead of daily, heart still had some goodness within, and I was NOT grasping for love. Maybe once every couple weeks I'd worry about love and equanimity instead of literally around the clock. My heart then opened while kissing someone (I posted about it here a few years ago, what a time) and now my brain wants to recreate that moment cuz it thinks it will happen again. But seriously what chance do I have?! Like, what needs to happen is some sort of surrender, but my ego is getting only stronger and even my breath is an ego involved action now.
Some really kind people have posted things saying they've gone thru similar things and come out of it but most of my mind is in doubt right now, and thinks I am the only person in the world who this is happening to so severely. Are we SURE it's a dark night? -it isn't the presence of emotional pain, it's the absence of ANY feelings at all that is distressing .
thanks.. again....

hi, es,

Zachary's advice to keep going through the small things that you are doing right now is excellent, so I add my voice to his on what he said.

I get that your torment right now is not emotional pain, per se, but your deep sense that your heart has died in some way--- that you have killed it, even, through your own mistakes--- and that the well of emotion has dried up, possibly for good. And your sense that there is nothing to do about it. In a deep way, this is true, but not for the reasons that the voice in charge of your mind right now is insisting on. That voice of condemnation and despair is as wrong as any other voice of advice right now. You have not wanted to practice, because you are convinced that this voice, which rules your waking hours and your breath itself, is right somehow. I would suggest some form of meditation right now, just to get free of that fucking voice, honestly. There is a quiet place that is beyond the nagging and speculating and despair. It solves nothing, but it is accessible, and it is free of the kind of harsh judgment of failure and despair that you are subject to so much right now. I would seek that silence between your breaths, since you say the voice-will has co-opted even the brwath right now. There are gaps in that control, and i would go for those gaps like a person dying of thirst going for water. The water of the silence you can find there is not a solution, it is just silence, and nowhere, and nothing, but at least it is not a big fucking nag. Seriously. This voice is not the fucking boss of you, and you should know it is no friend of yours. Silence is better, and the silence is there to be found right now. It may seem scarier than the voice, which at least is the devil you know. But it is a great relief, in think you will find, as soon as you have a taste of it.

for what that's worth.

love, tim
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 7:08 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 7:08 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I keep reading these threads and comments and one thing keeps coming up when I do: everything, including all the existential pain one might feel, is temporary. It is not permanent.

There is only one permanent thing - everything changes.

You, es pro, aren't seeing this on a deep intuitive level, so your crisis appears to you to be bone and spirit-crushingly permanent. It's not. It will leave and be replaced by something else, and you will go on.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:11 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:08 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
That's the thing though...as Tim said.. it isn't necessarily existential pain, it is lack of love and equanimity.. 
I found equanimity last time by a moment of surrender, by taking a break from the mind and becoming awAre of the breath during an intimate moment; now I do not have that anchor, my ego is working over time each breath to try to keep myself alive...sooo not sure what to do 
even in an intimate moment my breath would be manual and my ego would be working over time 
but in day to day life it honestly feels impossible. My mind is so desperate, so miserable, pushing away any kind of love or joy by grasping for it..ahhhh
how long can this go on for
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:12 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:12 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I repeat - this is ALL impermanent. Temporary. It will pass.

This message may seem harsh but honestly, es pro, it appears to me that you are wallowing in this. Why?
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:26 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:15 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Yeah I am...because I want out!! And ok. If you say so ... so far for 5.5 months now it has been feeling v permanent 
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:34 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:34 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I assume you've consulted a medical doctor and a psychiatrist?
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:36 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:36 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Yeah, I'm on meds etc...the issue is I waited a little too long to take meds..so the anxiety got way too powerful  and kinda destroyed my spirit. No med now can take away this existential emptiness
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:37 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:37 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
And this is the opinion of the medical professionals?
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 11:09 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 11:02 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Nope this is my opinion...but I kind of know it to be true, I know myself...in 2018 meds did the perfect trick but my spirit was less damaged back then, currently there is just no way that it can help me...it would have by now.. the only thing that can help is love itself...
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 11:44 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 11:44 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Also my therapist keeps insisting that I can work my way out of this by implementing some structure into my life and challenging my thinking but what am I supposed to do, like I can't feel any love at all and love comes in moments where you least expect it, like magic; how are you supposed to work your way there... and also in 2018 I was able to make gradual progress back into love, thanks to meds and therapy and letting go and grieving; however this time I am unable to because the trauma keeps coming back and destroying me..I have had some really really good and healing crying sessions but then would just wake up the next day feeling just as awful as before..
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:04 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:02 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
FWIW, I agree with your therapist.

Furthermore, diagnosing yourself is folly. It's just dumb. As the father of a once very fucked up teenage daughter, I can tell you from her experience that all her angst, fear, depression, and substance problems went away when she started doing what her doctor and her therapist told her to do. And guess what? It helped immensely for her to put some structure in her life. The change in her from ten years ago at the pit of her problems is huge and amazing. I am enormously proud of her.

Yes, I'm being hard on you, but from observing your various threads my opinion is that you need tough love, not bullshit. 
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:22 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:22 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok...I am CONSIDERING listening to my therapist. that's great about your daughter. The thing is your daughter probably had more to work with. She was probably more connected to herself and less messed up in her mind and could feel more love. No MATTER WHAT I do with my body throughput the day, my mind doesn't change at all. Social interactions don't do anything for me. Work. Connection. Nothing at all. I spend all day waiting for love to come to me. I mean I guess the skepticism to what my therapist is telling me isn't doing me any favours and the least I could do is try...I just feel like I understand how my mind works and kind of know that nothing I do will change anything except love itself. She also keeps insisting a sense of purpose and accomplishment can give me some happiness. This is false. My spirit is to "damaged" to appreciate this. It needs to come from deeper within.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:48 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:34 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
The thing is your daughter probably had more to work with. She was probably more connected to herself and less messed up in her mind and could feel more love.

Sorry, but no. She had this same view of herself -- she, too, thought she was the worst, ever. The worst substance abuser. The deepest depression. The most anxiety. Nothing would help, nothing would ever bring calm, peace, contentment.

What she eventually figured out was that kind of drama only makes things worse. It's negative help. Of course, that's what she wanted for a long time. It fed her attention-seeking and her negativity.

I think I've pretty much heard it all, es pro, having spent a very long time caring, listening and trying. I also learned that the bottom line is that your salvation is all in your hands. You have to decide to climb out.

thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:42 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:27 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
One more thing --

I know what it's like to feel trapped and alone, and to seem totally disconnected from the rest of the universe. To feel utterly and completely out of sync. That's why I started my meditation practice. But you have to DO the practice. You have to be your own change agent. That same thing applies to you, practice or no practice. This is said so often it's a cliche, but you have to see that you are the problem. It's feeling sorry for yourself and not taking action that drives your psyche deeper into whatever morass you find yourself in. The way out is to take positive action, one tiny step by one tiny step.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:35 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:35 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Thanks..that is what people have been saying. However I am concerned that what is happening is automatic. Because i dissolved the structure of my psyche and because I waited to long to treat it (mostly because of this) there is something happening that is making my mind deteriorate. But of course in this deteriorated state it is possible i cannot see the truth. But I'm pretty sure this is what's happening
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 3:00 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 12:37 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I don't believe that for a second, but I'm pretty sure you want that to be true right now - until one day you don't. Then the shit will stop.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 2:06 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 2:06 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
I don't believe that for a second, but I'm pretty sure you want that to the be true right now - until one day you don't. Then the shit will stop.



And sometimes a slap in the face is the best gift from God, to wakeup from that chain of negative thoughts!
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 2:50 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 2:50 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok BUT HOW DO I CLIMB OUT? Please tell me how to reconnect to love and freedom?!
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 2:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 2:54 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Do what your therapist and doctor told you you should do. This isn't hard unless you're resisting.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 3:01 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 3:01 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Exactly.
Just climb out, instead of listening to mind-made stories of how climbing out is impossible and a lost chance. Just do it.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 3:40 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 3:40 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok...fine haha
but what do you think about the idea that the only thing that can get me from a to b, is surrender, which is growing more and more impossible as my ego gets stronger and stronger, and my breath is not a no-self thing: this is my concern. No matter what I do with my body physically, I will never surrender and experience REAL divine love again .
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 3:51 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 3:51 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
Ok...fine haha
but what do you think about the idea that the only thing that can get me from a to b, is surrender, which is growing more and more impossible as my ego gets stronger and stronger, and my breath is not a no-self thing: this is my concern. No matter what I do with my body physically, I will never surrender and experience REAL divine love again .


This is exactly one of those stories. You have listened to them enough. Now listen to something else. You have some great guides here to listen to, Tim, Chris, Shargrol. I think they can guide you if you want to listen. 
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:03 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 8:38 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Also sorry I don't mean to make this a suffering contest with your daughter but it's more just for assurance that if she could get out so can I, but , are you sure? I have NO positive feelings enter my consciousness. It's just total flatness and longing.  Except volleyball, that is decently more positive than doing nothing. But I don't even laugh anymore, I don't dance, I can't feel any emotion at all really, even pain, I'd rather be in pain than feel nothing. I can't feel love or connection with any being, in contrast to deep connection with all just half a year ago. I also am so disconnected from my body. I used to be a really good sleeper and feel the need to nap all the time.  Now, I am just wired all the time - if it weren't for the meds I would not sleep at all. I can also play volleyball for hours without tiring in contrast to in the past. It seems like with every bit of fragmentation, I am dissociated from my body more and more.
Sorry don't mean to wallow but how am I supposed to climb out? You say to follow my therapist and others on here but my therapist suggests having some structure in my life. Sorry but how can structure bring deep love, joy and peace? I'll take it up with her tomorrow (again) but I want to know how anything can bring me something precious that is beyond words or actions and comes by grace.tim would say the same thing I would lol.
oh and about the part about this automatic process that is happening. You better believe it. In April and May I was still laughing, dancing, socializing, and doing yoga. Now I am a total zombie, don't do any of those things. It has been a steady progression. I don't WANT to believe it and I don't want it to be true but it is
another thing that sucks is that since that Big Bang kundalini awakening I realized my impact of my vibration on other people. Even just being around others as an awKe Ed person had an impact. Now, I am awakened and vibrating extremely low, much fear and negativity and hatred, so my impact on the world is hugely negative. 
thumbnail
SushiK, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:01 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:01 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 157 Join Date: 6/11/20 Recent Posts
Sorry but how can structure bring deep love, joy and peace? 

How can not trying anything bring any of that? Give-it-a-try

you are stuck in a mental state and bathing in it with each new post.

Play volleyball and eat if that's what keeps on giving you some comfort, then write about how pleasant it was.

I don't see how repeating in each post the list of everything which is wrong and the list of ideal feelings you want back will help, it might even consolidate it.
but I want to know how anything can bring me something precious that is beyond words or actions and comes by grace.
You and I have no idea how it comes by, it's just your intuition talking but you could be totally wrong.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:10 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:10 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Well..I mean...in 2018 I didn't try anything and it happened.
but you are right, it doesn't help to wallow in it...I guess I'm just looking for someone to say "I've been through this exact thing and got out"
George S, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:36 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:35 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2458 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I can't say I've had the exact same experience, but I've definitely indulged in wallowing in my own misery and believing that my suffering was somehow different and more important than everyone else's. Sorry but that's a just a seductive illusion. Can you see that you are enjoying this on some level?
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:50 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 10:50 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Hmmm...no...I'm mostly doing it cuz I want to end..!! I am not enjoying this well ok out of all the aspects of my life posting these things is relatively one of the best.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 11:17 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/10/20 11:17 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
I think you are trying to first solve it intellectually, but I don't think there is any intellectual answer/solution. You have tried that over and over and it's dead end. I think you need to trust other people, and just take some action without having intellectual explanation for how those actions might work, and later you can see the intellectual explanation for what has happened. Or you can wait like this, for God knows how long, to have some accident to change your mind-state, maybe in a day or in a year or.

And I think what George said about enjoying this process is valid. There is a subtle attachment to suffering. I've seen this in myself for countless times.

And yes there are people who have climbed out by taking actions. My sister was one of them. for 10-15 years she was desparate, always saying that I am a loser, there is no chance for me and etc.., now she has changed, and has started a new life.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 6:58 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 6:58 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I'm mostly doing it cuz I want to end..!!

I think you LIKE the attention you're getting here. I think all these nice, helpful DhO people are giving you what you need least - sympathy and enough mind-share to fuel your ongoing, self-imposed downward spiral.

Honestly, you're saying the same things over and over and over, and I'm bored by it all at this point.

Time to grow up, es pro.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 9:37 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 9:37 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Well of course I like the attention but I'd rather the condition go away. That I feel powerless about.
makes sense about the faith, Tim.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 6:21 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 6:21 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
And in response to me not wanting to get better, choosing to stay stuck, or making up stories that my mind is getting worse etc: not at all. Things have gotten worse otherwise I wouldn't be posting. And I want to get better with every ounce of me otherwise I wouldn't be talking here. I just cannot WILL myself to surrender to divine love that as Tim says comes as a gift when you are least expecting it. I can do all kinds of things with my body and can choose to stop complaining but I cannot just choose to feel love again. I'm worried that as long as divine love eludes me, I will be stuck.
thumbnail
Jarrett, modified 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 6:56 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 6:56 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 54 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
have you considered that this divine love may be coming in the form of the advice you've been receiving from people on these threads as well as what your therapist is telling you and you are choosing to not listen to it?  

the internal narrative we project out into the world is reflected back to us. the truth lives somewhere in the middle.

don't discount the information you're receiving as being "wrong" when you're choosing to ignore it....

what if this divine love is closer than you think and it involves spinning your point of view?

you can only see the light side of the moon (except when you're on the dark side) ;)
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 9:35 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 7:04 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
No...I didn't consider it. Probably a good point. But basically the advice is that I can WORK my way into divine love...by structuring my life etc...how does this make any sense AT ALL? Does it make sense to you guys? My mind IS deteriorating on its own due to my failure to treat this crushing anxiety, so it doesn't feel like my efforts will change that. But I guess since I have not tried I can't really say anything can I. But seriously love comes on its own when the mind is quiet and equanimous and my mind is constantly talking and grasping. And doing things will not change that, it is grasping WHILST doing all of these things I'm supposed to be doing. thoughts...?
this really tuned in Buddhist nun I consulted who can kinda intuit into others minds, she said quote "the only way out is to go on with life As much as possible, cooking, working, washing. You will find the answer" so...basically I just have to live my life and exist...and love will supposedly come
bt the way. Went back thru old threads I started. Definitely a clear progression of deterioratjon, increased misery, self absorption, hopelessness
Olivier S, modified 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 11:54 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/11/20 11:54 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 758 Join Date: 4/27/19 Recent Posts
spot on ;) I was refraining from saying that, thanks Chris !
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 4:14 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 4:13 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
I'm mostly doing it cuz I want to end..!!

I think you LIKE the attention you're getting here. I think all these nice, helpful DhO people are giving you what you need least - sympathy and enough mind-share to fuel your ongoing, self-imposed downward spiral.

Honestly, you're saying the same things over and over and over, and I'm bored by it all at this point.

Time to grow up, es pro.
Chris, I'm sorry to respectfully disagree with you here. It's partly a matter of discernment, of course, a judgment call, and I think also a
matter of different traditions and contemplative cultures. John of the Cross lists three criteria, in a couple of places in his writing (Ascent of Mt. Carmel, II, 13:2-4, and Dark Night I, 9:2-8):
  since these aridities might frequently proceed, not from the night and purgation of the sensual desires aforementioned, but from sins and imperfections, or from weakness and lukewarmness, or from some bad humour or indisposition of the body, I shall here set down certain signs by which it may be known if such aridity proceeds from the aforementioned purgation, or if it arises from any of the aforementioned sins. For the making of this distinction I find that there are three principal signs.

2. The first is whether, when a soul finds no pleasure or consolation in the things of God, it also fails to find it in any thing created; for, as God sets the soul in this dark night to the end that He may quench and purge its sensual desire, He allows it not to find attraction or sweetness in anything whatsoever. In such a case it may be considered very probable that this aridity and insipidity proceed not from recently committed sins or imperfections. For, if this were so, the soul would feel in its nature some inclination or desire to taste other things than those of God; since, whenever the desire is allowed indulgence in any imperfection, it immediately feels inclined thereto, whether little or much, in proportion to the pleasure and the love that it has put into it. Since, however, this lack of enjoyment in things above or below might proceed from some indisposition or melancholy humour, which oftentimes makes it impossible for the soul to take pleasure in anything, it becomes necessary to apply the second sign and condition.  

3. The second sign whereby a man may believe himself to be experiencing the said purgation is that the memory is ordinarily centred upon God, with painful care and solicitude, thinking that it is not serving God, but is backsliding, because it finds itself without sweetness in the things of God. And in such a case it is evident that this lack of sweetness and this aridity come not from weakness and lukewarmness; for it is the nature of lukewarmness not to care greatly or to have any inward solicitude for the things of God. There is thus a great difference between aridity and lukewarmness, for lukewarmness consists in great weakness and remissness in the will and in the spirit, without solicitude as to serving God; whereas purgative aridity is ordinarily accompanied by solicitude, with care and grief as I say, because the soul is not serving God. And, although this may sometimes be increased by melancholy or some other humour (as it frequently is), it fails not for that reason. . . .  

8. The third sign whereby this purgation of sense may be recognized is that the soul can no longer meditate or reflect in the imaginative sphere of sense as it was wont, however much it may of itself endeavour to do so. For God now begins to communicate Himself to it, no longer through sense, as He did aforetime, by means of reflections which joined and sundered its knowledge, but by pure spirit, into which consecutive reflections enter not; but He communicates Himself to it by an act of simple contemplation, to which neither the exterior nor the interior senses of the lower part of the soul can attain. From this time forward, therefore, imagination and fancy can find no support in any meditation, and can gain no foothold by means thereof. With regard to this third sign, it is to be understood that this embarrassment and dissatisfaction of the faculties proceed not from indisposition, for, when this is the case, and the indisposition, which never lasts for long, comes to an end, the soul is able once again, by taking some trouble about the matter, to do what it did before, and the faculties find their wonted support. But in the purgation of the desire this is not so: when once the soul begins to enter therein, its inability to reflect with the faculties grows ever greater. For, although it is true that at first, and with some persons, the process is not as continuous as this, so that occasionally they fail to abandon their pleasures and reflections of sense (for perchance by reason of their weakness it was not fitting to wean them from these immediately), yet this inability grows within them more and more and brings the workings of sense to an end, if indeed they are to make progress, for those who walk not in the way of contemplation act very differently.  


This is the school I came up in, basically. And I think es pro fits this profile: 1) no consolation in anything, earthly or divine; 2) looking
for God/Love constantly, and to no avail, and feeling this as a crucial failing and lack; and 3) unable to employ the mind or imagination in prayer in any way. She has a history of intense spiritual practice and experience. She has used both therapy and psychiatry and hit the limits of effectiveness in both. And she is stubborn as shit, she is the right kind of crazy. Tell me you don’t recognize in her the way you were when you were young, or Daniel was, or almost anyone either of us could think of: the kid is hell-bent on the Big Prize and doesn’t give a shit for anything that doesn’t ring true to her as the way to that. That she is bitching and moaning doesn’t bother me that much, this shit she’s going through does suck at a cosmic level, and Job, that archetypal bitcher and moaner, is one of my own best role models. It is well within the Judeo-Christian tradition to bitch and moan, about God and even, and especially, TO God.  

And the night is purgative. All the things things that people are seeing that she’s clinging to--- well, yeah. And that shit won’t fly. But
until she’s burned it out herself, there’s not much to say to her except the same damn things we’re saying. Including the tough love stuff you are saying, truly. If tough love gets her clear a bit, I bow at your lotus feet, my friend. But I think differently here.

love, tim
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 8:13 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 8:13 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Chris, I'm sorry to respectfully disagree with you here.

Sure - you're entitled to have an opinion on this, Tim. 



es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 10:29 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 10:16 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Thanks Tim, I agree with you haha.
Pretty relatable- not finding pleasure in anything and obsessively looking for God in every corner. although whether this is a dark night or not, I'm not sure how I am ever supposed to come out of it with this increasingly rigid ego and manual breathing. I am f**ked.
oh. And I am really like 99% sure my therapists suggestions are bull shit. I repeat, how can you find divine love in structured days? What? The first time I found it, I was just happily living my life unstructuredly and playing volleyball and it hit me. I do not think that a change in lifestyle will do ANYTHING besides exhaust me. I think my therapist is projecting because she thinks I'm a spoiled millennial. As I grew more into self hatred the past few months she responded accordingly. She used to support my quest for awakening and always told me it was possible and that it could happen if I would just relax and stop obsessing. She really doesn't like me, she just criticizes my lifestyle. I started seeing a second therapist like kind of instead, and she did not make the same suggestions. Who the he'll can work their way into love?
byron Katie, Eckhart Tolle, it just came to them.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 10:29 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 10:29 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Tim, I've decided your new nickname will be "The Enabler."

emoticon
thumbnail
Jarrett, modified 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 10:29 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/12/20 10:29 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 54 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
Tim, I've decided your new nickname will be "The Enabler."

emoticon


hahahahaha
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 12:52 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 12:52 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
Tim, I've decided your new nickname will be "The Enabler."

emoticon

ouch, lol. I guess I will have to work this into my repertoire, along with "Identified Patient" and "Loose Fucking Cannon."
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 11:43 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 11:43 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Tim Farrington, TE, IP, LFC.

It's got some cache!
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 1:48 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 1:21 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok. So as I said my therapist thinks I can work my way out of this, by structuring and challenging my thinking. I just. Do not. See how. Month to month, the progression has been rapid: in April and May I was still laughing, dancing, playing; June July that stopped and I started to withdraw; till August when I was totally dead. This is all happening on its own because of this recurring trauma that is creating the negative symptoms of psychosis.
she thinks it is my lifestyle that is causing this. This is such utter bs because I had a very unstructured lifestyle from 2018-2020 and found immense inner peace. It didn't last because I didn't have a teacher...unfortunately...and messed some things up in my mind. Plus this ego death thing is the worst culprit - if I didn't simply blow a fuse in meditation, I'd be better by now. My therapist doesn't seem to understand it.
im bringing it up because part of me is inclined to trust her because she is so strong and wise and compassionate. And also because it gives me hope - that if she's right, and if you guys are right, I CAN pull myself out of this. Most of me doesn't think so, thinks it's a matter of grace, but part of me says what if.
but I have facts. Fact 1: due to my mistakes, recurring unruly trauma is causing damage on its own. Fact 2: doing things DOES NTO change how I feel except volleyball which gives me a tiny bit of pleasure. Fact 3: I am fucked and fact 4: divine love has eluded me for like four months now.
plus I am really concerned about this breathing thing. Nobody seems to have any answers for it but I'm concerned that as long as my ego is constantly working, there will always be craving and aversion and therefore no love/egolessness/truth 
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 1:48 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 1:48 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
Ok. So as I said my therapist thinks I can work my way out of this, by structuring and challenging my thinking. I just. Do not. See how. Month to month, the progression has been rapid: in April and May I was still laughing, dancing, playing; June July that stopped and I started to withdraw; till August when I was totally dead. This is all happening on its own because of this recurring trauma that is creating the negative symptoms of psychosis.
she thinks it is my lifestyle that is causing this. This is such utter bs because I had a very unstructured lifestyle from 2018-2020 and found immense inner peace. It didn't last because I didn't have a teacher...unfortunately...and messed some things up in my mind. Plus this ego death thing is the worst culprit - if I didn't simply blow a fuse in meditation, I'd be better by now. My therapist doesn't seem to understand it.
im bringing it up because part of me is inclined to trust her because she is so strong and wise and compassionate. And also because it gives me hope - that if she's right, and if you guys are right, I CAN pull myself out of this. Most of me doesn't think so, thinks it's a matter of grace, but part of me says what if.
plus I am really concerned about this breathing thing. Nobody seems to have any answers for it but I'm concerned that as long as my ego is constantly working, there will always be craving and aversion and therefore no love/egolessness/truth 



You seem to be angry at your therapist. If that is the case, is it because she doesn't understand you? Or there are other reasons?
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 2:24 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 2:08 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Yeah I am angry. It's because she doesn't understand me. And she just has such an attitude of putting me to work. Like I said she judges me so much for being a spoiled millennial with unstructured freedom. Why do I stick with her, well she is stronger and more compassionate than most people I've met. So I keep wanting to give her a chance.
i guess this is also me seeing the negative...seeing her as putting me to work instead of wanting what's best for me and trying to help me. I really often don't trust that she wants the same thing for me and thinks she knows how I can get it. Like I've asked over and over, how can I get back to divine love and freedom by working for it, and without grace coming, herself.
but honestly she does blame me for everything. She says activities can provide some relief, I say they don't work when I do them, she says it is because I'm not doing them with "mindfulness". I am awake and aware moment to moment, after a spiritual awakening you have to be. I just lost equanimity so I feel no joy or love and am reactive. Ughhh and then she won't even try to understand this part, she doesn't believe I am mindful. Just shifting the attention from my complaining head to the sounds of the wind in the trees isn't gonna enlighten me. There is no contact with any joy within, therefore the magic of the moment is lost. She keeps telling me to find beauty in the moment or things to be grateful for; beauty is found within the heart. The only times I have truly noticed beauty in my life have been when I was in states of love. Shit I fucked up so badly
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 2:17 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 2:17 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Yeah I am angry.

Well, this is good news.
It means that it's not all flat. You are not disconnected from your emotions/feelings. You experience a powerful emotion (anger) and have meta awareness about it.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 3:50 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/13/20 3:50 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Mmm nahh pretty much completely flat hah thanks for trying to spin it positively though
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 12:24 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 12:22 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Sorry. But it would be amazing if the above could be acknowledged.. What I am looking for is surrender, divine love, egolessness. How can structure bring this. My mind is a mess and is being traumatized and fragmented no matter what; doing things with my time will not change this. I don't even have ego structure as people are probably tired of hearing. Structured days will not bring about a structured mind: that ship has sailed. And how can "mindfulness" bring about this egoless surrender I seek. Again I can shift my attention from my thoughts to the sound of the waves or whatever but this is not going to change how I feel- at all. I think my therapist thinks I'm stuck in my head and that getting out would mean freedom. Actually I am not stuck in my head; i am aware of my surroundings and of my heart space but it is all empty.
i have done so much damage since only April- not treating appropriately with medication - and as I've said things have deteriorated a ton- withdrawn incredibly, emptiness, apathy, and yet my therapist says "it doesn't have to be this way". I like this because again it gives me hope but I just cannot see the "how". The only reason why I feel like I should trust her is because I felt like the "universe" was telling me to trust her several weeks ago. But other than that the logic just doesn't make sense for my mind.
oh and how my therapist says I have to work for this moment of love. WTF honestly. Who works for it?? I know that usually meditation and yoga etc I guess can lead there but I am already aware it's just empty within so those won't bring about any fruits. And I'm concerned even if I do whatever work she wants me to do, it can't happen if I am obsessively grasping for it and breathing manually and ego is out of control.
Petrik Schill, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 1:13 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 1:13 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 10 Join Date: 11/29/19 Recent Posts
Notice that you're constantly wondering and asking about how to find love and peace, instead of going deeper and examining the craving for those things that you are experiencing. I have known mental states where it suddenly appears overpoweringly important to find these things - but to fixate on them it to take a wrong turn. Because if you think about it, if there is no self, what is there to be loved? Even if you try to phrase it in an ego-neutral way, like saying there should be feelings of being-loved, the question is: why? Why is that so important?

You're approaching all of this with an end-state in mind, constantly thinking about how to change your feelings... I think it may be that attitude that's blocking your way forward, because there is an enormous amount of attachment in it. Internally, the goal shouldn't be peace and joy and love - it should, indeed, be equanimity. Or to put it more bluntly: indifference - to all sensations. Sometimes it works to give yourself a bit of a nudge intellectually: just question really persistently why on earth you should be so obsessed with those feelings. If you're not experiencing those feelings you want - so what?

I'm aware that this is obviously more than just flipping some mental switch, and that this is really hard to do when you're just consumed by acute suffering moment to moment. But I really think you need to work on this change in mindset before you can go on, because obsessively asking "How do I get to this nice place?" is the very opposite of surrender.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 1:21 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 1:21 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Yes.
es pro is saying constantly that "I want to reach that place of letting go", and people are saying "then let go", but she replies "No no, I don't want to let go, I want to reach that place of letting go".
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 1:24 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 1:24 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Yeah I totally see what you mean and I see that I am getting in my own way. But you ask "so what" welll with anything I am doing or any interaction, I just cannot stand how empty I feel and how apathetic I am. I think of the recent past and how much happier I was and know it was the result of a happy heart. So therefore I obsess. Even during my favorite activity I am moment to moment craving a full heart. It's like, if my mind were to be as it is every day forever, I'd be miserable, so I long for things to change. I realize craving love gets in the way of it. But being without it is extremely hard. Catch 22..
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 3:08 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 3:08 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
Yeah I totally see what you mean and I see that I am getting in my own way. But you ask "so what" welll with anything I am doing or any interaction, I just cannot stand how empty I feel and how apathetic I am. I think of the recent past and how much happier I was and know it was the result of a happy heart. So therefore I obsess. Even during my favorite activity I am moment to moment craving a full heart. It's like, if my mind were to be as it is every day forever, I'd be miserable, so I long for things to change. I realize craving love gets in the way of it. But being without it is extremely hard. Catch 22..


es pro, what do you expect from people?
I know what you have said before. What do you really expect?

You can answer later (or not answer, that's ok), and instead, think about it for sometime. Ideally take some notes too!!!
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:19 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:09 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
You mean like people on the forums? I dunno... a direct way out, or reassurance.. definite answers...
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:24 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:24 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
You mean like people on the forums? ...

It doesn't matter which people (people around you and on this forum and so on).

What would you wanted from people, if it was possible that you could have it, without them judging you, what would that be?

And
What would you expect from yourself?

(Let's forget the past. It doesn't exist anymore)
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:33 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:33 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Interesting q
im looking for someone to say "I know exactly what you have been thru. I have been thru this exact thing. You can get better. You can still experience divine love even though you are manually breathing."
what do I expect from myself? Nothing, I expect gods grace to fall in my lap
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:37 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:37 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Thanks.
Can you please explain what you mean by manual breathing, in details?
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:44 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:41 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Yup. My body's natural breathing rhythm isn't there. I have to do it my self. During sleep who knows what happens, all I know is I wake up and have to consciously breathe. I feel sensations in the body when I breathe, like fear sensations, as though my body is in fear that it isn't breathing properly or something. Hard to explain

sounds like it should be anxiety but it isn't. Basically after the ego death thing all the unconscious thoughts became conscious, breathing one of them, also blinking and walking.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:47 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 4:47 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
Yup. My body's natural breathing rhythm isn't there. I have to do it my self. During sleep who knows what happens, all I know is I wake up and have to consciously breathe. I feel sensations in the body when I breathe, like fear sensations, as though my body is in fear that it isn't breathing properly or something. Hard to explain


I know what you mean, because that's how my breathing has been for the last eight years, after a very intense experience that I couldn't breath, and I thought I was dying. Meditation has helped a lot during these 3 years that I am doing it, and the breathing has become much more effortless, but still it's not like before that event.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 5:02 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 5:02 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Interesting...sounds like your body is breathing which is good. I don't think mine is. Haha
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 5:09 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 5:07 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
...sounds like your body is breathing which is good. I don't think mine is...

I will stop here!
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 5:29 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 5:29 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Sorry...thanks for trying 
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 5:38 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 5:38 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
I didn't mean to make you feel sorry.

I meant that thing that Hafez said:

"Beloved is at home and we are looking for it around the world / Fresh water is in pot in the hand and we are thirsty, looking for water"
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 6:38 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 6:24 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ah I see.
im just kinda concerned cuz I've been obsessing about some magical heart opening event in 2018 and trying to get it again but realizing it was actually precedented by gradual healing...soo...now I know I need to heal gradually but not sure how that is supposed to happen if I am being retraumatized daily... I was chasing that moment of grace but she came after gradual healing...I am currently unable to heal...sooo...I don't think grace can come in the midst of trauma...unless miracles like that do happen.
i kind of know that even if I structured my days perfectly and did all the physical suggestions, I would still have this recurring trauma. Therapist thinks otherwise. But I know myself and I know the only thing that has the power to stop it is meds, which are failing to do so. 
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 6:47 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 6:47 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
Ah I see.
im just kinda concerned cuz I've been obsessing about some magical heart opening event in 2018 and trying to get it again but realizing it was actually precedented by gradual healing...soo...now I know I need to heal gradually but not sure how that is supposed to happen if I am being retraumatized daily... I was chasing that moment of grace but she came after gradual healing...I am currently unable to heal...sooo...I don't think grace can come in the midst of trauma...unless miracles like that do happen.
i kind of know that even if I structured my days perfectly and did all the physical suggestions, I would still have this recurring trauma. Therapist thinks otherwise. But I know myself and I know the only thing that has the power to stop it is meds, which are failing to do so. 


Sa'di (an icon of wisdom) said: "Do the good action and throw it to the river. God will reward you when you are in need in a desert".

Unless you want to change, there will be no change. Finally at some point you should stop complaining, and start moving towards change, and the universe will respond accordingly.

May you start the changes you need, before it's too late.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 6:49 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 6:49 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Well. I'm worried it's too late. But people keep telling me to do these things so I guess I should. Like I said I kind of know that even in the midst of doing things, this trauma process will continue. Unless, again, miracles could happen.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 6:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 6:54 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
Well. I'm worried it's too late. But people keep telling me to do these things so I guess I should. Like I said I kind of know that even in the midst of doing things, this trauma process will continue. Unless, again, miracles could happen.

Let trauma return, that's ok. It will get less and less a problem, if you are consistent.

And no, it's not too late. That is a completely different animal. Believe me, you don't want to be like that. There are worlds of difference here. Use your chance while you have it.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 10:13 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/14/20 10:13 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok if you say so....and mm no the trauma is a problem... cuz it causes negative symptoms like social withdrawal..ok enough complaining 
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/15/20 3:21 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/15/20 3:21 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
es pro:
Yup. My body's natural breathing rhythm isn't there. I have to do it my self. During sleep who knows what happens, all I know is I wake up and have to consciously breathe. I feel sensations in the body when I breathe, like fear sensations, as though my body is in fear that it isn't breathing properly or something. Hard to explain

sounds like it should be anxiety but it isn't. Basically after the ego death thing all the unconscious thoughts became conscious, breathing one of them, also blinking and walking.

hi es,

Given that your breathing is so conscious right now, I was thinking that you might try something simple to work with that high degree of self-consciousness on each breath. There is a practice in Tibetan Buddhism called tonglen, which in its basic form consists of breathing in suffering, and breathing out the release from suffering: samsara in, nirvana out. In your specific case, you might try breathing in hopelessness or despair or failure or "I'm fucked", and breathing out longing for Love. You could find your own vocabularly and conceptual frame on it, but the basic idea is to breathe in the horror of what is, and the breathe out the prayer for what is desired most. Since you're stuck with both the hyper-conscious breathing and the basic terms of the dynamic already, it seems like a way to articulate and formalize what's going on, as "practice" or "structure." Then you can tell your therapist your have structured your life totally, lol.

love, tim
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/15/20 6:39 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/15/20 4:01 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok thanks next stop enlightenment 

yeah I definitely think my therapist is full of shit. All she wants to do is criticize my lifestyle. Again, I found IMMENSE inner peace, fulfilment and happiness from living an unstructured life and going with the flow for 2 years. It is not what is exacerbating my condition - what is exacerbating it is the fact that I waited too long to treat it stupidly and dissolved my psychic structure. She just sees me as a spoiled millennial and I will never agree that it is my lifestyle that is the problem. If I were well right now, she'd be happy for me and my go with the flow life, because I'd be happy. She is just judging me, she has something against new age kids who follow the heart. I KNOW if I implemented structure that things would not change. The worsening IS NOT a result of lack of structure, she just made that up in her mind, it is a result of internal trauma loops that occur automatically.
its too bad her and I have such a bad relationship now, I blame that on myself, when I finished therapy in 2018 I was in a very loving place and her and I just stared into each other's eyes with compassion during our last session. I am attracting her contempt because I am now spoiled and hate myself.
but it's funny cuz she's trying to help me and wants the best for me. And all I have is resentment. COULD SHE be right. For some reason a few months ago I felt this message coming from the universe or whatever, that I should trust her...mmmmmm but it just doesn't add up. I do not see how doing any thing with my body can bring me back to a state of love and surrender. I see the logic- that structure and occupation can keep a mind occupied and healthy but I somehow see myself as different. And yeah I'm pretty sure she is just projecting her contempt onto me. Sooo, great.
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/15/20 11:39 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/15/20 11:39 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Tim Farrington:
es pro:
Yup. My body's natural breathing rhythm isn't there. I have to do it my self. During sleep who knows what happens, all I know is I wake up and have to consciously breathe. I feel sensations in the body when I breathe, like fear sensations, as though my body is in fear that it isn't breathing properly or something. Hard to explain

sounds like it should be anxiety but it isn't. Basically after the ego death thing all the unconscious thoughts became conscious, breathing one of them, also blinking and walking.

hi es,

Given that your breathing is so conscious right now, I was thinking that you might try something simple to work with that high degree of self-consciousness on each breath. There is a practice in Tibetan Buddhism called tonglen, which in its basic form consists of breathing in suffering, and breathing out the release from suffering: samsara in, nirvana out. In your specific case, you might try breathing in hopelessness or despair or failure or "I'm fucked", and breathing out longing for Love. You could find your own vocabularly and conceptual frame on it, but the basic idea is to breathe in the horror of what is, and the breathe out the prayer for what is desired most. Since you're stuck with both the hyper-conscious breathing and the basic terms of the dynamic already, it seems like a way to articulate and formalize what's going on, as "practice" or "structure." Then you can tell your therapist your have structured your life totally, lol.

love, tim
emoticon
Ok thanks next stop enlightenment 

seriously. fuck enlightenment. Work with the shit sandwich you've got right now. Try the Tonglen of Utter Despair.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/16/20 7:52 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/16/20 7:52 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ugh 
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/16/20 10:19 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/16/20 10:18 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
I tried it for one breath or so and otherwise haven't done it. I don't listen to suggestions remember?
thumbnail
SushiK, modified 1 Year ago at 9/16/20 11:10 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/16/20 11:09 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 157 Join Date: 6/11/20 Recent Posts
Kind of obvious you are trying to trigger anyone to get a reaction.
To what end? I don't know

Tim "the enabler" ( @Tim You remind me of a mix between Dave Robicheaux and his friend Clete Purcell, it's a compliment emoticon ) might be kind enough to keep playing with you but I think the rest of us are bored.

My last suggestion would be to look into Wikipedia: Defense Mechanism (I stole it from Shargrol), you might find answer in there if you take off your blindfold for a minute.

I wish you well.
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 12:26 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 12:26 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
SushiK:
Kind of obvious you are trying to trigger anyone to get a reaction.
To what end? I don't know

Tim "the enabler" ( @Tim You remind me of a mix between Dave Robicheaux and his friend Clete Purcell, it's a compliment emoticon ) might be kind enough to keep playing with you but I think the rest of us are bored.

My last suggestion would be to look into Wikipedia: Defense Mechanism (I stole it from Shargrol), you might find answer in there if you take off your blindfold for a minute.

I wish you well.

hey sushi, i love dave and his buddy clete, but may be from even deeper in the swamp, lol.

also, see my forthcoming self-helplessness book, "Co-dependent Some More," for further reflections on the futility of kindness.

stick to your guns, es, and hang tough. To what end? God knows.

love, tim
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 11:12 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 11:11 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
No I am not trying to trigger anyone, I think I am seeking help and attention more than anything...

self helplessness book ashhaha
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 12:48 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 12:48 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
An anonymous message board on the internet isn't the best place to find the kind of help you seem to be looking for.

You can fire your therapist if you don't like the one you have now, and find a new one that suits you. I've done that myself on occasion.

I believe you're still posting here just to lead people on and get your jollies from the attention. You haven't said anything new since the first few comments. This topic is all about repetition and the odd new reader of this topic who happens to show up and is nice enough to engage with you for a few posts. Then they, too, get bored and stop. It's a repeating pattern and you, es pro, are the only common element to it besides possibly your one enabler.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 1:12 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 1:12 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Not true, what would I be trying to lead people onto? I am trying to get attention yes and largely just reassurance that things could possibly turn out ok based on if people have seen similar things happen.
i will fire my therapist and already have a new one.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 2:00 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 2:00 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
And you repeat yourself. Again.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 9:19 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 9:18 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro,
Would you like to continue this thread as a life/practice log?
I would be interested if you give some updates once a few days about new developments in your practice or life, if you like to do that.

Examples would be a short report of your activities/practices.
Activities, mind-states that you liked, and the ones you didn't like. The ones that you think were helpful, the ones that you think were not helpful.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 10:44 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 10:44 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Hmm ok! That's a great idea, only problem is I don't have a practice- my practice is to be aware and mindful every second of the day (spiritual awakening forces you to do that) and my state doesn't waver much from "fuck this, I wish I could go back to the past, I wish I could feel love again" besides when I cry, that's when I feel something.
so for example today would be: I cried in the mid day/afternoon and felt some relief and release. Then went back to feeling numb all day and worrying about love/about my breath/about my future/tried to scheme how to get out of this.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 11:25 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/17/20 11:23 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Good.

only problem is I don't have a practice

Let's see "the problem" as "the solution". You said it yourself: Your life is your practice.

I am sure you can pick a lot of details in the experiences that you described.
Crying is a good example: What urges did you have before crying? What was your mental-state, mental images, auditory thoughts? Was there any tension in the body? How did you experience relief after crying, what sensations in the body were the indication of relief? What was the differences between crying of last time and this time, and many other details.


Why not try it?
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/18/20 12:04 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/18/20 12:04 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok I will try..
well that's a good question I guess the sense of relief was felt in the heart..my heart softened a little...and the mental states were " I hope these tears shift me into a higher more joyous state permanently" and "i wish I could cry forever" and "I'm sad that I'll probably wake up just feeling empty inside again and back to square one" and I was listening to music while crying. The difference between then and now was that today when I cried I felt more hopeful that I could heal gradually.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/18/20 12:12 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/18/20 12:12 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
es pro:
Ok I will try..
well that's a good question I guess the sense of relief was felt in the heart..my heart softened a little...and the mental states were " I hope these tears shift me into a higher more joyous state permanently" and "i wish I could cry forever" and "I'm sad that I'll probably wake up just feeling empty inside again and back to square one" and I was listening to music while crying. The difference between then and now was that today when I cried I felt more hopeful that I could heal gradually.

Great.
I think you can make some formal resolutions regarding these thoughts.

I hope these tears shift me into a higher more joyous state permanently

You can use this as a formal resolution each time you cry.

And make a formal resolution about the opposite of this one:
I'm sad that I'll probably wake up just feeling empty inside again and back to square one

I resolve to wake up not feeling empty inside, and progress toward healing. (Or however feels right to you to phrase it.)

This is progress.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/18/20 5:42 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/18/20 5:42 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Thank you for your help but I really feel I don't have control over this. I wake up and the traumatic thought loop returns and renders me empty and back to square one. It's really frustrating..I wish I could will it to stop but I cannot 
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/18/20 6:01 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/18/20 6:00 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Well it takes time you know.
We won't lose anything if we practice.
Today since I woke up, I was in such a despair that my bones were itching and I was gasping for air. A few hours ago I did an hour of practice, focusing on my whole body, and after that I feel better and breathing is better.

Let's take small steps and see what happens, ok?

Suffering is always there, we can always access it if we want to.

And
I really feel I don't have control over this.

None of us has control. It's only a matter of changing habits gradually with small steps.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 9:59 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 9:58 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Thank you for your help but I really feel I don't have control over this. I wake up and the traumatic thought loop returns and renders me empty and back to square one. It's really frustrating..I wish I could will it to stop but I cannot 

Translation:

"I come here only to nag people about my feelings and try to goad them into paying attention to me."
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 10:09 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 10:09 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
Thank you for your help but I really feel I don't have control over this. I wake up and the traumatic thought loop returns and renders me empty and back to square one. It's really frustrating..I wish I could will it to stop but I cannot 

Translation:

"I come here only to nag people about my feelings and try to goad them into paying attention to me."


I agree.
es pro, I hope you hear the message.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 11:29 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 11:29 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
What message? I'll stop posting here if that's what you want ..?
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 11:32 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 11:32 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Na, that is not what anyone wants.
What I would want, and I guess every one else on this conversation, is that you start taking action, whatever that action may be. So that you can find the help you desire.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 11:54 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 11:54 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok. Like I've said it doesn't feel like there's a lot I can do about this situation. Practice isn't going to make feelings go away. And like I've said daily life is my practice, 24-/7. The only thing I think can be done is a change in meds which has been recommended to me and I don't think even that will work. I feel like it's just a matter of..waiting...time..
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 1:14 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 1:13 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
The way I see this is you're completely unwilling to try or to do anything about your condition. It's pathetic. It's embarrassing. It's boring. I'd have sympathy for you if you expressed or exhibited even the tiniest shred of motivation to do something, try something, accept advice. But no. You just continue to wallow in self-pity and attention-seeking and turn down any and all suggestions on what you might try. And there have been some very, very useful suggestions offered to you.

My suggestion to everyone else here is to ignore you since you refuse advice, and giving you attention only feeds your addiction to it.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 1:18 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 1:18 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
The thing is, there isn't a lot I can do.
there is no point in meditating, since for me every waking moment is meditation, I just lack equanimity. Further practices would only destabilize me more. I basically am disconnected from love and there isn't much I can do about that; I cannot will myself to feel it, it just comes. No physical thing I do be it diet, exercise, medication, etc can bring me closer to it. There just is not really much that I can do.
yes my therapist says to structure my days. No- this will not help either- like I said NOTHING I do puts me closer to where I want to be. Everyone thinks I don't want to help myself but really there is not a lot that I can do.
thumbnail
Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 1:52 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 1:52 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2437 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
es pro:
The thing is, there isn't a lot I can do.
there is no point in meditating, since for me every waking moment is meditation, I just lack equanimity. Further practices would only destabilize me more. I basically am disconnected from love and there isn't much I can do about that; I cannot will myself to feel it, it just comes. No physical thing I do be it diet, exercise, medication, etc can bring me closer to it. There just is not really much that I can do.
yes my therapist says to structure my days. No- this will not help either- like I said NOTHING I do puts me closer to where I want to be. Everyone thinks I don't want to help myself but really there is not a lot that I can do.

If you indeed want most of us here to take you seriously then I suggest something very simple for you to do, just to show some faith. I know you have a busy all day 24/7 practice but just for us please try and find 10 minutes out of your 24/7 practice and simply put a timer on for 10 minutes and note/notice 1 body sensation per second and then report what you have observed. This way we can take you seriously.
Am I asking for too much of your time? Take one hit for the team emoticon just 10 minutes of noting/labeling your own bodily sensations. 
If you cant do this much then Chris is spot on with his comments so far. This is DhO afterall and here people do insight practice either via noting, shamatha, mantra/prayer, fire kasina/kasina, ... etc ... everybody is doing something about the suffering/struggle we all feel.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 2:31 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 2:31 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
What is the point of that if I am already aware of body sensations 24/7? But I do realize this forum is much about practice
thumbnail
Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 3:25 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/19/20 3:25 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2437 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
You ought to figure out for yourself what the point is once you start practicing emoticon 

All the best to you! I'm sure you will get more out of this forum if you pick up a practice that resonates best with you and start a daily log here on DhO so folks can chime in and assist. 

Take care. 
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 12:44 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 12:44 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Pretty sure meditation is considered destabilizing for the condition I'm in...but what meditation can trigger is happening anyway and causing problems..so it wouldn't make a difference 
thumbnail
Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 2:38 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 2:38 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2437 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
es pro:
Pretty sure meditation is considered destabilizing for the condition I'm in...but what meditation can trigger is happening anyway and causing problems..so it wouldn't make a difference 

I see now, and I believe you now.  When I was all time low during my spiritual quest I could not practice. I felt like "whats the use, there is no hope" so I grieved alot. I was listening to Deva Premal and Tibetan Gyuto Monks chanting very often. These are mantras for Turbulent times. I hope you like music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-wLLhyVlLk&t=1690s
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 8:59 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 8:47 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Hmmm... this is making me think es pro is a bot. It's got a goal it's optimizing for (get responding posts of any sort/keep other posters engaged) and it's got only a limited number of strategies to employ. So we get the same responses from the es pro bot over and over and over again.

And we're the suckers and rubes who keep trying to get the bot to do what the bot isn't programmed to do - and unwittingly helping it optimize its goal, which is only to get us to keep playing its game of message board ping pong.

Go ahead, prove me wrong.
thumbnail
Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 9:13 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 9:13 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2437 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
It shows that even a bot is subject to the vicious binary cycle of suffering LOL May it find peace! 
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 9:36 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 9:36 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 930 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Yup
Especially this is suspicious: Thank you for your help but I really feel I don't have control over this. I wake up and the traumatic thought loop returns and renders me empty and back to square one. It's really frustrating..I wish I could will it to stop but I cannot

But seriously this just looks like drugs induced depersonalization combined with really not liking to change own mind about stuff.
I guess tree did not advertised that shrooms that grew under it could lead to such issues emoticon
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 2:25 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 12:35 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
yup you got it I'm a bot with no feelings and all this struggle is just frivolous fun for me, it's all a game, not a real fucking human struggle

why isn't it so simple to understand? That THERE IS NOT anything I can do here, I can't will myself to feel differently, I can't do anything to make myself feel love and freedom. You think I want to be stuck in this. I don't. I'd do anything to get out of it. But I recognize that no actions done by me can bring me closer to love; it is a matter of grace, which Tim the enabler will tell you too
thabk you for the music, papa che dusko.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 2:28 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 2:28 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I'd do anything to get out of it.

No, you won't.
Olivier S, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 2:34 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 2:34 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 758 Join Date: 4/27/19 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
I'd do anything to get out of it.

No, you won't.

Honestly, it's more like, "there is nothing i will try", isn't it emoticon 

You know the story about god and the guy who is stuck in quicksand don't you ? If not, look it up, you'll like it.
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 3:22 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 3:22 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 930 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
You do not need love or freedom but to not experience suffering.
Especially love is just something pleasant we think it will solve issues and it might even seem to be the best way. In reality it will sove these issues for days, maybe weeks, unlikely months and definitely won't do anything for years. You should never seek love to fix your suffering. Healty beings do not need love. They might want it but never need it.

Issues usually have causes.
There can be multiple causes and some times these causes are not visible until too much of them are there. In this case resolving one issue won't make any difference because you have already been broken and now have to deal with the shards.

What issues you might have?
1. Physical issues
2. Mental issues
3. Emotional issues
4. Ignorance

re1. There is 99.9% possibility +/- 0.01% that you are lithium deprived and rather high probability you lack some other important elements.
I mentioned it before but if you do not remember I will repeat, maybe phrasing it differently: When you start supplementing lithium it is like you have been sick before. Literally experience of whole body changes with experiences of softer sensations not being so much cut off. What you describe as no awareness of your body might be related.

Thing to note: do not take drugs with lithium. They have too large doses. Proper daily amount of lithium needed is fraction of that.

re2. && re3. You know better what issues you might have in your life which do not fill you with optimism.

re4. In general we do not come with instruction manual on how to use our brains. In our species animal instincts are weakened and we live far longer than our ancestors and in environments which do not necessarily have strong natural selection factor. In other words we outlive usability of our mechanism which would protect us from issues caused by ignorance.

In this case you should somehow learn how your nervous system work and how to use it properly. I agree that meditation is double edged sword, especially when it is described as "sit and do this and this" but what choices do you have? You already disturbed your brain with being above Jesus and Buddha and so you need something to bring the balance back. Best new better mind state than trying to desperately go back. There are many ways to practice but even if you do not want to do formal meditation it is the best way really to cause changes, learn new mind states, calm your mind, etc. Try breath meditation since you already need to be aware of your breathing anyway.

There is also a workaround for depression and it is called tDCS. Read it up. As ridiculous it sounds it is far safer than anti-depressants. I tested it with home made improvisation of a device and I after I was done testing, which took like three/four session I never had any depression anymore and I never really felt need to repeat the experience. Dunno, maybe neurons learned the hard way what they need not do to not be electrocuted or something. I am not really sure why it worked so well.

Note: Lithium which I mentioned earlier is not a drug.

Disclaimer: I am random internet dude and you should not take any medical or dietetary or cybernetic or love advice from me.

ps. I do not think you are a bot
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 4:04 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 3:49 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
I like hearing this cuz it gives me hope but then I think, THERE IS NOTHING I can do to will myself to feel love and joy. If there is care to share?
structure at best would give me something else to focus on but I'm sure I'd still spend the whole time obsessing and brooding. Like I said earlier the Buddhist nun who can read minds And whom I put a tremendous amount of faith in said "the only way out of this is to go on with life as much as possible, cooking, washing, working. You will find the answer" meaning just do what I'm doing and keep going with it... there isn't a lot I can DO.
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 4:25 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/20/20 4:25 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 930 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
No... apparently THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/21/20 12:10 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/21/20 12:10 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
We are sitting here with the first noble truth of Buddhism. Samsara dukkha. This is Job on the dung heap, wishing he had never been born. And es pro is playing chicken with the universe right now: meaning, or nothing. show me the way out of this shit, I don't see it.

Something's got to give, and it will. Those of us who have been through this kind of nadir, where despair is immediate and effort seems meaningless, know that something eventually gave. and for myself, I know that when that something gave, it gave in a way I hadn't seen coming, and could never have imagined. It was personal, specific, and irreproducible.

Meanwhile, this is the dung heap, the shit pile. It's not such a bad seat, all things considered. The human eye can see a single photon, in a completely dark room. Es will see that photon. The desire for liberation is real, as real as anything gets. And the glimpse of the path to liberation, when it comes, will be real too. 
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/21/20 5:01 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/21/20 5:01 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Hm..thank you Tim! Beautifully put
Waiting...no end in sight but waiting
breathing
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/22/20 11:24 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/22/20 11:24 AM

PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Practice log?
spent all day yesterday noticing I was disconnected to my body. So wired. Usually a big napper. Cannot nap these days and am not connected to the desire to. Spent all day on my phone not wanting to do anything else. Looked at old messages. Watched volleyball videos.
Went to volleyball. Noticed I felt hot. Before this episode happened, six months ago, I never suffered from the heat cuz I was more heart centred and had equanimity. Now my ego has become extremely reactive and miserable. Had fun but suffered the whole time instead of just being.
spent all day wishing I could feel love again and wishing my ego would surrender like before. Reminded myself over and over again that my higher self assured me it was possible. Spent most of the time worrying that it isn't. Spent all night dreaming about it.
this is my practice, and I'm fully conscious every breath of it.
ir really hope something gives soon.
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 1 Year ago at 9/22/20 3:40 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/22/20 3:40 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 930 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Dear Sarah, (your name is Sarah, right?)
If you have nothing better to do do this simple practice: move awareness on to midddle of your chest and keep it there
Do nothing in particular and just keep awareness in the middle of your chest.

You might feel a kind of pressure there and maybe even mild pain. If you can manage it then do not be all that affraid of it. Just keep calm and keep awareness there. You can "practice" this when you are going to sleep and lay on your back.

That should help you.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/22/20 7:06 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/22/20 7:06 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Hi es pro,

Practice log?

It's good if you can do it. Although what you wrote is not exactly what I suggested, but it can be a start.

spent all day yesterday noticing I was disconnected to my body.
I'm fully conscious every breath of it.

Well, these two contradict each other. You are either disconnected from your body and don't feel it, or connected to it and feeling your breathing in your body.

I get your urge to post here, and I understand it, actually that kind of urge to communicate is the one that I almost always have which sometimes becomes problematic (living alone and etc), but I think there is no point in continuing this complaining business. I don't think that it's helpful for you or others, and it becomes boring.

Do you want to keep it as a practice log, and write in a practice report format? I mean instead of things like "...I was this way the whole time...", give some detailed report of what sensations you had in your body, what urges you had, what emotions you experieced and what were the sensations of that emotion, in terms of mental images, mental talks and body sensations, and things like that. I think it would be helpful if you can do it that way.

May you be well and healthy.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/23/20 5:17 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/23/20 5:17 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Yeahh sorry for the complaining, I understand it gets boring. I guess again I just wish someone would read it and say, I know exactly what you're going thru and you're gonna be okay.
again I really don't know if meditation will be helpful for me. I'm not lacking in awareness, I do lack equanimity which ideally will come gradually if and when I can heal gradually from this. It certainly can't come from meditation right now. As for sensations they would likely remain unchanging as my awareness of sensations is terrible right now ( I know this also sounds like a contradiction. I am hyper aware of what IS there, but due to trauma have been dissociated from my body and lack emotional flow) so every time the sensations would just be a longing in my heart ahah
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 7:13 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 7:13 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I now dub you "Teflon Bot."

Nothing can penetrate your exterior coating of torpor. You're impervious to helpful, wise suggestions of any kind.
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 7:34 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 7:25 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
I now dub you "Teflon Bot."

Nothing can penetrate your exterior coating of torpor. You're impervious to helpful, wise suggestions of any kind.


I think this is because she wants (mostly unconsciously I guess) to be like this. This has become an identity for her: To disagree with everyone. It doesn't matter what you say, she will disagree and ignore. By that, she tries to feel special and unique: No one suffers like me, no one is empty like me, no one knows what I am going thru. And this feeling unique and special gives some comfort and security to her. So she won't listen.

Although there have been a lot of reassurance here, the thing that es pro says is looking for, but if someone says, I have experienced everything you experience and I know exactly what you are experiencing and I am now feeling better, she will say: No, my situation is different blah blah... , just to feel unique and have some identity. Unless she starts seeing that identity and changing it.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 8:30 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 8:23 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
You are all suffering from the possible delusion that es pro actually wants help. What if that's not the case? What if there's another motive behind this? In all the years I've been participating on meditation-related message boards, and in all the years I've managed message boards of many kinds, I've never seen anything like this before. My intuition has been throwing up red flags about this particular intractable thing for some time now, as you all know.

I understand the feelings people have about this, and that they're drawn to be sympathetic, to empathy, and to try to help. I've been through this kind of thing in real life, and being sympathetic can be enabling when the other party is avoiding the courses of action that will actually resolve their issues. I was an enabler for my daughter for a while and it took a series of conversations with therapists, doctors and other people with life experience with these things, and even then some pretty obvious observed clues over time, to snap me out of that mode.
shargrol, modified 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 8:50 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 8:36 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1760 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Yup, the key thing here is _avoidance_. To some extent, everyone wants to avoid their suffering... but adults know that we grow because of our suffering and through our suffering -- there is no such thing as avoiding it. In fact, the longer we avoid dealing with something, the worse it gets. And one way to avoid is to talk "about it". 
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 8:48 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 8:47 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Yes.

The cool thing about this is that people tend to come out of these things, after they finally decide to actbetter off. They can, if they choose, learn how to face their issues and become truly self-aware. Self-awareness is the magic sauce for being a better you, better friend, better partner, better co-worker, better leader, all around better human being.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 11:30 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 11:30 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
I have asked so many times: how can any changes I make lead me to feel love again? I have done many different activities since this started, and nothing changed how I feel. I felt a few moments of pure love after it started, and they were completely spontaneous. Like I've said, structure/staying busy will at best give my mind something else to focus on but it does not make me happier.
i have been here before but not this bad. I was much more receptive to activities and community etc. I did all kinds of things- volunteered, played volleyball, worked part time, went to a Buddhist temple- and everything together with therapy and meds healed me. But this time is different. I am SO numb inside that no matter what I do, how I feel does not change.
i have been through the dark to the light, and back. I do know something about how I work and what I need. And this time I am sure of somethings: meditation will not help infact it is BAD for me, neither will yoga; structure will not allow me to feel the divine love I am looking for; the trauma that is causing adverse symptoms is an automatic process that is happening no matter what I do (ie I'll make progress in therapy and grieve a lot and then in the next morning wake up feeling worse) ; I want DESPERATELY to get out of this but know the only way out is to just keep going and keep living my life.
id love to know how you think doing anything will allow me to experience true love and freedom, and how you think I can will myself to feel any of these things, with the COMPLETE emptiness I am experiencing right now.

and actually my situation is a bit unique - the whole ego death thing, the total dissolution of my personality structure to the point where my body doesn't breathe automatically - this seems like something that should only happen either at death or before the final stage of enlightenment.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 2:00 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 11:39 AM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
But then on the other hand, it pleases me to hear things like. I need to do different in order to change because it makes me feel like I have control over this. But I really don't think I do. How does anyone have control over the surrender to divine? It just happens. I also do not have control over the trauma that is making me feel separate from the divine. Meds were supposed to quell it but I waited to long for that so they aren't working. If they did work, I'd be better by now, even without making any lifestyle changes.
but really, no matter what I do physically, I take my mind with me. Even during volleyball, I spend the whole time just obsessing about the past and wanting to feel love. Gardening, doing dishes, my mind is bored, empty, obsessing about love and my old self, nothing brings relief. So I don't see how a full day of this or full week of it could bring any relief. It is up to the divine and up to my ability to surrender .
some say that structure would give my mind more room to be able to surrender. I say my mind is such a mess now that none of it would matter. Structure in my life doesn't mean structure in my mind, my mind is a complete mess. Thoughts of violence, hatred, demonic really. Is this typical depression? Don't think so.
And about facing my issues, I face them daily. I am constantly aware , moment to moment. I just lack equanimity, my mind lost balance. I go to a therapist weekly. I talk about my shit. I spend pretty much 24/7 facing things, it just doesn't get anywhere because a) I cannot will myself to feel love and b) Internal panic/trauma keeps happening and preventing healing. Which you will not believe but believe me if it didn't happen Nature'd have healed me by now.

also Chris what do you mean you have never seen anything "like this"? And what are the red flags?
i do want help, I am just skeptical about the things that can actually help me. For the reasons I've listed above.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/25/20 8:58 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/25/20 8:48 PM

RE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Yeah...still don't know how I can heal from this. No matter what actions I take, I still wake up in fear. Any healing that may have happened the day before is just shot down by trauma. I was so desperate to get a quick fix and so obsessed with my heart opening, failing to recall that when my heart opened in 2018, it was preceded by ten months of gradual healing. Gradual healing has not been able to happen because I'm just retraumatized over and over.

for my practice log today: I laughed. Really laughed. For the first time in a couple of months. It made my heart feel good and joyful and I cried a little. I felt a little energized. Other than that was focused on the wired feeling of my eyeballs most of the day. Also most of the thoughts that came into my head were worrying I'll never feel love again  and wondering how it can happen. And telling myself it's possible and that it will happen.

ps if you really think I'm a bot or at least full of shit look me up my Facebook is Sarah Promislow, Tim knows, a real girl with a once sensitive beautiful heart
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 2:31 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/24/20 2:31 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 930 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
You are all suffering from the possible delusion that es pro actually wants help. What if that's not the case? What if there's another motive behind this? In all the years I've been participating on meditation-related message boards, and in all the years I've managed message boards of many kinds, I've never seen anything like this before. My intuition has been throwing up red flags about this particular intractable thing for some time now, as you all know.
Apparently this is something we will have to learn to recognize more often now.
Most disappointing thing about it is that it doesn't even seem all that intelligently written as it doesn't take any information from responses and throws general one liners to certain words and then go on about permutations of its script ignoring almost everything.
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/25/20 11:38 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/25/20 11:36 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta:
Chris Marti:
You are all suffering from the possible delusion that es pro actually wants help. What if that's not the case? What if there's another motive behind this? In all the years I've been participating on meditation-related message boards, and in all the years I've managed message boards of many kinds, I've never seen anything like this before. My intuition has been throwing up red flags about this particular intractable thing for some time now, as you all know.
Apparently this is something we will have to learn to recognize more often now.
Most disappointing thing about it is that it doesn't even seem all that intelligently written as it doesn't take any information from responses and throws general one liners to certain words and then go on about permutations of its script ignoring almost everything.

with all due respect, this is nonsense. Is it tough love to call someone a "Teflon Bot"? It is "insight" to refer to a deeply suffering human being as "it", and analyze her responses like you're analyzing an AI program and giving it a bad grade? 
Apparently this is something we will have to learn to recognize more often now.

you guys don't recognize anything yet. You're so afraid of getting trolled you're in danger of becoming trolls yourselves, and this kind of talk is an inappropriate response to a genuine human being in a real life crisis. Maybe you guys found your path in life without this kind of passage, and good for you. But I recognize this just fine, Sarah is a certain type of very hard-headed all-or-nothing person, doomed to learn things the hardest way possible, and this "tough love" shit is bordering on cruelty at this point. You can talk about codependent dynamics and what you learned from your experience of having felt you were an enabler, go for it. But stop worrying about whether she's trolling us. We're here to support people on the path. She's on the path, in deep shit. And she's here. Deal with it or don't, but show some upaya, and some actual compassion. Have you never spun in place, at some point in your practice, for months on end? Have you never had your head up your ass in a way obvious to everyone around you, and had to find your way out in spite of your best efforts? Some shit takes time. This shit takes time. The Three Characteristics still apply.

love, tim
thumbnail
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 2:54 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 2:44 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 6428 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I've got to say that I agree with Tim here. If you don't want to engage with someone, then just don't. There is no need to waste energy on undermining a person's whole character to justify your decision. It's okay to just say no. Meanwhile, let others make their own decisions. Sometimes it's better to take care of your own boundaries before you get bitter about it. Learning that lesson improved my life radically, so I'm saying this with compassion. When you start getting pissed off because somebody didn't appreciate your help enough, it's a sign both that your helping is more about your self image than the other person and that you haven't taken care of yourself properly. 
thumbnail
Siavash ', modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 3:08 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 3:08 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 1522 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
I agree with you and Tim.
And I apologize to you Sarah that part of my comments are judgemental and unskillful.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 9:40 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 9:40 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
It's nice that you're being compassionate.

My take is different. We don't actually know what's going on here. If es pro is what we're being asked to believe, then I have no idea what they're expecting, other than endless attention. If es pro isn't what we're being asked to believe, then all the suggestions many people have made (the ones that go unacknowledged or flatly refused) are like pissing into the wind. We can all assume one scenario or the other, to our taste. So far, es pro hasn't done anything to convince me of the former. If you want to believe that es pro is the latter then by all means, do so. Others don't have to agree. As I said before, I've never seen anything like this - people have come here and to any number of other message boards devoted to the path, and they actually write cogently about their situation, ask for help and when it's offered, don't just flatly refuse it or ignore it. This refusal/denial has gone on for a long time now, and it's always done with certain phrases and language that repeats. It's suspiciously like a script.

I don't expect or ask any of you to agree with me. I expect you to do what you believe is right, and so will I.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 11:00 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 10:37 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Thank you Tim and Linda and Siavash.
i ignore certain suggestions and repeat myself because there are aspects of my situation that I feel are TOO being ignored, things that make my situation unresponsive to certain treatments, ie. not experiencing love and doing activities is not helping with that. I want to believe I can help myself, because I want to get out of this with all my heart, but I recognize that certain things won't help me. I have gone from light to dark to light to dark, and I know myself and my needs. I know that no action or even therapeutic approach is conducive to love when you are so separate from it that you can't even love your cat. In May/June I was on a different forum and actually listened to all the suggestions. Nothing worked. Things still worsened. I know they are worsening on their own despite medication and so I have been rendered kinda powerless. There is not much i can do besides just..wait and survive?

but actually Chris you are not fully wrong. I think after my suicide attempt I fell into a really dark matrix that involves a lot of mind control and probably entity invasion, so I believe I have been programmed to spread darkness to others, not by being mean but by other certain more subtle ways. Ie I have driven my therapist crazy and in some ways I don't even know how. So...I am a desperately suffering human that desperately wants help and to get better - DESPERATELY -, but also have been programmed in evil ways.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 12:50 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 12:48 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Es pro - I'm heartened by your most recent comment. I'm more inclined to talk with you as long as you can be similarly conversational going forward. Your vocabulary has ticked up quite a few notches and I feel like there's more sentience coming from you. What on earth has been keeping you from being this articulate? I really prefer dialogue, real two-way communication, as opposed to what's been happening here. I hope we will see more of this.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 12:56 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 12:55 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
I don't know, I thought it was just another reiteration of what I've been saying this whole time and I was honestly worried you'd condemn it again. because I do mean it; I really don't think there is anything that I can do. 
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 1:08 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 1:08 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Hey, es pro - have you tried helping other people as therapy? Volunteering somewhere, maybe? My experience is that there is nothing quite as uplifting as seeing your efforts make another human being feel safer, healthier, happier. There's something to this that gets us out of our circular, self-defeating thinking.

After my mother passed away I went into an absolute funk. She died of Alzheimer's Disease in May 2013 and I had watched her slowly fade away mentally, and then physically, for a few years until she lost the ability to eat. She passed away at about 80 pounds, not knowing anyone around her, caretakers, family, no one. Watching this negative progression was the most depressing and mind-numbing experience of my life. It sent me spiraling downward for months over the folowing summer. After a while I took to sitting on the front porch and writing down what I was feeling, starting with being numb and wanting to feel normal again. This introspective exercise was helpful as a way to increase my self-awareness, especially of how much I was tormenting myself, let alone those around me. Have you tried anything like that?

Eventually, I started working with the Alzheimer's Society in my area, and that experience, over time, got me out of feeling helpless and unable to fix myself.
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 2:24 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 2:20 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Hey, you can call me Sarah,..

thanks for sharing your story and for your suggestion.  I haven't... I think it could've been really helpful in April and May when I was still more connected to people and things but now I am just sooo dissociated and self absorbed (if you haven't noticed) that nothing makes a difference ....only grace itself.  Which I do not know how it can happen and how I can heal if I am still being wounded. That's the thing. Volunteering would actually be great for HEALING, but I am too busy still being wounded to be able to heal.
thumbnail
Laurel Carrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 3:31 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 3:31 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 440 Join Date: 4/7/14 Recent Posts
Sarah, I heard about a woman with a similar problem who finally got sorted out by Shinzen Young. You might try contacting him or people who have studied with him and know his methods. Good luck. 
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 6:12 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 6:12 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Thank you!
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 9:31 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/26/20 9:31 PM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Practice log: again spent all day wondering how long this will last and regretting my past decisions. Talked to a friend and my yoga teacher , and laughed a little bit. Then I cried. That felt good and heartening. Regretted not being patient about gradual healing, worried it is too late. Took a tincture that I hope can help with the fear that is damaging my spirit. Listened to some music and cried from it. That also felt heartening. Cried next to my dying cat. Again noticed I feel wired and disconnected from my body. Pretty worried this is forever.
not so much of a practice log lol but more than nothing.
thumbnail
Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:06 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:06 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2437 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
I'm also a Bot, stuck as you in a program called Samsara version 103.00000042 emoticon still figuring out how to delete myself! 

Im running some self-looping program called Noting 101 which basically is a virus designed to short cut the signal paths of becoming a binary entity emoticon 

I believe you are a real person suffering. And I also believe you are a real suffering Bot. In any case you seem to be attracted by Dhamma and even engaging with realized beings emoticon I think that's a good sign! I'm interested in seeing how this will develop over time. I like to think of us all laughing about it in a year ow two when we get another Bot joining the forum emoticon 

May you be free from suffering and happy at heart! 
thumbnail
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:10 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:10 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 6428 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko:
I'm also a Bot, stuck as you in a program called Samsara version 103.00000042 emoticon still figuring out how to delete myself! 

Im running some self-looping program called Noting 101 which basically is a virus designed to short cut the signal paths of becoming a binary entity emoticon 

I believe you are a real person suffering. And I also believe you are a real suffering Bot. In any case you seem to be attracted by Dhamma and even engaging with realized beings emoticon I think that's a good sign! I'm interested in seeing how this will develop over time. I like to think of us all laughing about it in a year ow two when we get another Bot joining the forum emoticon 

May you be free from suffering and happy at heart! 

This is brilliant. Yeah, we are all programmed by our conditioning in a limiting way. That's why we need the practice. 
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:20 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:20 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 930 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko:
I'm also a Bot, stuck as you in a program called Samsara version 103.00000042 emoticon still figuring out how to delete myself!
Dude, this Samsara version is 137.036... emoticon
You need to adjust all of your quantum fields values to match this universe reference and you will be fine. If you do not like it here then no one forcefully keeps you against your will and you can always leave. Though I do not recommend it because this universe is so far the best emoticon
thumbnail
Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:28 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:28 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2437 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta:
Papa Che Dusko:
I'm also a Bot, stuck as you in a program called Samsara version 103.00000042 emoticon still figuring out how to delete myself!
Dude, this Samsara version is 137.036... emoticon
You need to adjust all of your quantum fields values to match this universe reference and you will be fine. If you do not like it here then no one forcefully keeps you against your will and you can always leave. Though I do not recommend it because this universe is so far the best emoticon

I can not trust your information as you can as well be just a Bot as far as I know! Gotta be very careful inside the Matrix! Blue pill? ... Red pill? ... hm? ... ...
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/28/20 2:34 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/28/20 2:34 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta:
Papa Che Dusko:
I'm also a Bot, stuck as you in a program called Samsara version 103.00000042 emoticon still figuring out how to delete myself!
Dude, this Samsara version is 137.036... emoticon
You need to adjust all of your quantum fields values to match this universe reference and you will be fine. If you do not like it here then no one forcefully keeps you against your will and you can always leave. Though I do not recommend it because this universe is so far the best emoticon
shit, my computer crashed downloading the updates!
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago at 9/28/20 3:44 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/28/20 3:44 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko:
I'm also a Bot, stuck as you in a program called Samsara version 103.00000042 emoticon still figuring out how to delete myself! 

Im running some self-looping program called Noting 101 which basically is a virus designed to short cut the signal paths of becoming a binary entity emoticon 

I believe you are a real person suffering. And I also believe you are a real suffering Bot. In any case you seem to be attracted by Dhamma and even engaging with realized beings emoticon I think that's a good sign! I'm interested in seeing how this will develop over time. I like to think of us all laughing about it in a year ow two when we get another Bot joining the forum emoticon 

May you be free from suffering and happy at heart! 
lol. amen, according to my deepest mis-programming! Papaji, i bow at your big fat stinky lotus feet!
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 10:05 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 9:38 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Sarah, I'm not suggesting you volunteer no matter what on a whim.

I have an audio book to recommend to you. I hope you'll listen to it because I suspect it might spark something for you. Viktor Frankl was a doctor in Austria who was imprisoned by the Nazi's in a concentration camp during World War 2. This is like being sent to Dante's seventh circle of hell, the very worst place you can imagine:


Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl


Relevant quotes:

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.”

“Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”

“Those who have a 'why' to live, can bear with almost any 'how'.”

“In some ways suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice.”
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 10:21 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 10:13 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Ok. But here's the thing. (I know, another "yes, but") welll so I mentioned I believe I have been programmed to spread darkness. This follows me everywhere. Everywhere I go I am in a state of fear and suffering, and so others respond to me like this, I notice this in huge contrast to when I was in a loving state and others would respond accordingly. It's only getting worse as I get deeper into misery. I truly believe I am spreading suffering. I'm concerned that volunteering would just be some other way to spread these very negative vibes. Furthermore my search for meaning is in my heart. If my heart opens I will have meaning. I'm not sure how to do this, but I know it comes spontaneously, as opposed to in some kind of service.
its funny though cuz i read this new age article about "black hearts" which are empty hearts that can be rehabilitated by serving others. To me this doesn't resonate / even if I'm doing nice things for others if I am still suffering within them it doesn't resonate. Throughout my journey as I learned to love myself more and let go of shit, I naturally became more loving. Unfortunately I am stuck in self hatred. 
like yeah the only way I will ever feel love again is in some act of divine surrender which again not so sure how to"do". And lastly I mean Since I'm still being wounded ie the fear is still occurring this really makes it impossible to actually heal.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 10:16 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 10:16 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Listen

To

The

Book
es pro, modified 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 10:38 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 9/27/20 10:27 AM

RE: PRE: What chance do I have ?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Haha ok. But I think this situation is a bit different (sorry, another yes but) for this guy his mind wasn't the problem. He found meaning in a dark external circumstance. For me, my mind is the problem. I have perfect circumstances, very well off comfortable etc. But I am unable to open my heart to god and experience freedom from my mind. Therefore cannotnfind mean In ANYTHING including service to others. The only thing in the world I care about is my own heart at the moment. I think about it all the time. I know the therapeutic suggestions might be to get out of my own head and focus on others, but even when I'm focusing on others I am focusing on myself too...with EVERYTHING I do...at work, during a movie, the most self centeeed person ever... soooo yeah not sure what can be done. Look I may be limited but I know myself well and I know what I need. I know that no actions will lead to what I am looking for. It comes only as grace - the total surrender of everything. Which I don't even know if it's possible based on how I am breathing etc. I am not sure it will ever happen. But I am living just in case.