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Is 5-Me0-Dmt a cessation experience?

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Is 5-Me0-Dmt a cessation experience?
Answer
9/20/20 10:19 AM
A couple years back I had 3 experiences with the psychelic substance 5-me0-DMT.

This experience is very difficult to put into words and one I'm still trying to understand. 

There is no other way to categorize it other than a mystical experience, the realization of the Ultimate. 
 
About a year ago I was reading The Mind Illuminated by Culdasa (amazing book) and stumbled upon a part that seemed to be relevant to my experience. 

Culdasa talks about something called a cessation event which is  "where unconscious sub-minds remain tuned in and receptive to the contents of consciousness, while at the same time, none of them project any content into consciousness.'

He follows with  "Consider a situation where unconscious sub-minds remain tuned in and receptive to the contents of consciousness, while at the same time, none of them project any content into consciousness. Consciousness would cease — completely. There would be a complete cessation of mental fabrications of any kind, including cravings, intentions, and suffering."

The way I understand this is that a cessation event is a true experience of nothingness or emptiness. 

It is not something we can actually remember because in a sense the we or the I wasn't actually there in that moment. 

However when the "I" returns it can reflect upon the event.

I'm not sure if im understanding the cessation event correctly but if so it seems to be me this is somewhat similar to what happens during the 5-me0-dmt experience. 

It seems like I was plummeted into a nothingness something I can't truly remember but when I reflect on it I know it was the most profound experience I ever had.  

Many people who use 5-me0-DMT report it to be a life changing, transformational, rebirth type of experience. This is exactly what it was for me but it's not that for everyone. 

For instance a friend of mine also had this experience twice but from speaking to him it doesn't seem that it impacted him in such a profound way. 

This takes me to another part in Culdasa's book where he writes....

"We can have a profound spiritual experience, yet the effects may be short-lived. There simply weren’t enough sub-minds unified around the experience — tuned in to the information in consciousness — to produce a major transformation."

and 

"The transformative power of a cessation event depends on how unified the mind was. Unification determines the overall size of the “audience” of sub-minds receptive to events in consciousness. Only the parts of the mind-system that were tuned in during the cessation are affected. If the mind were completely unified, then every sub-mind within the mind system would be affected simultaneously, and there would be a complete Awakening of the entire mind-system. However, if the mind was only partially unified, there are two possibilities: no transformation, or incomplete transformation." 

This makes me wonder if my meditation practice had unified the subminds on a greater level and therefore allow the 5-me0-DMT experience to sink on on a deeper level than my friend who doesn't meditate. 

Has anybody else had a 5-me0-DMT experience, if so would you say it's a cessation event? 

RE: Is 5-Me0-Dmt a cessation experience?
Answer
9/20/20 11:13 AM as a reply to Artem Zen.
Artem Zen:
Is 5-Me0-Dmt a cessation experience?


No.

If anything, what you seem to hint at might bear some resemblance to dips into the formless realms. Which is not a huge deal, since a lot of things bear resemblance to the formless realms, for example falling asleep lucidly. But it is hard to say because you spend more time quoting a book that making a report on your experience.



Artem Zen:
Culdasa talks about something called a cessation event which is


The passages you quote from TMI are mostly philosophising and not useful diagnostic criteria for what qualifies as a cessation or not. These things the authors of that book call "sub-minds"... it is a concept that has close to zero consequence to actual sitting practice.

In addition, "it was a transformative experience" should not be a diagnostic criterion for a cessation, because a fuckton experiences are transformative. Specifically peak experiences (look it up on wikipedia), the family of phenomena that Daniel calls the A&P in his books stand out, paradoxically, as much more obviously transformative than cessations, so when I hear someone say that they have had a very transformative experience on drugs / meditation practice, my money is on a peak experience / A&P. Notice that "more obviously transformative" does not mean "more deeply transformative".

John Yates himself has criteria for deciding what qualifies as a cessation that are murky, ill-defined, and with an overall very low bar. He has diagnosed with what he calls Stream Entry people with an extremely weak practice. Best to stay away from it all.

If you want good, rigorous, high-bar diagnostic criteria for what qualifies as a cessation, look up the ones in MCTB or MCTB-2, and see if you can attain those during meditation practice and off psychedelics, for example doing shredding (fast noticing) or the Fire Kasina.

_____

I apologise for the multiple edits, I have a condition that makes it difficult to read and write.

RE: Is 5-Me0-Dmt a cessation experience?
Answer
9/20/20 2:34 PM as a reply to Artem Zen.
Psychedelics overstimulate your brain so much that they might as well caused cessation experience.
The issue is that you were generally "destroyed" when this happened so the transformative aspect of it is much less than ideal because it did not happen in normal conditions and more like fail-safe measure your brain used to protect itself... which did not workbecause it was still overstimulated after that not really making it register this event as all that important.

Most of the things which happen on these kind of drugs is utter nonsense. What they are good for however is to make new random connections in your brain which in turn can make it easier to do meditation if you do not overuse drugs and get post-drug depression and other issues caused by frying your brain in which case you will have to work few years to first fix what you have broken.

General rule is that such drugs are great tool but you need not overuse them. Cultures which use psychedelics for "spirit journeys" tend to do them twice a year at most and this sounds like quite safe limit.

RE: Is 5-Me0-Dmt a cessation experience?
Answer
9/21/20 1:49 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Artem, the topic of cessations has been discussed at length here on DhO. But to summarise, if you experienced anything at all, then it wasn't a cessation. A cessation is, as the name suggests, the ceasing of all conscious experience. Think of it as a non-experience. Sure, it sounds weird and doesn't make much sense as the focus of so much attention, but there it is. So if you experienced anything at all, any sensation, any mental state, then it wasn't a cessation. Keep on sitting!

RE: Is 5-Me0-Dmt a cessation experience?
Answer
9/21/20 8:13 AM as a reply to neko.
I often wonder if hallucinogenic drugs can bring about various mystical experiences. There seems to be a limited number of different experiences people can have. I have made a list below. All but one have been mentioned by either Daniel M Ingram or Culadasa.

1. You perceive that everything is light.
2. You perceive that you have entered a vast empty void.
3. You perceive that everything is part of you.
4. You perceive that there is no you and things are aware of themselves.
5. You perceive your Self stopping and then your brain rebooting followed by a bliss wave.
6. You perceive that something is controlling your body and causing movement and vocalisations.

RE: Is 5-Me0-Dmt a cessation experience?
Answer
9/21/20 8:30 PM as a reply to Artem Zen.
I think its close but not the same. More closer to dieing in my opinion. I think it teaches you a lot about surrender and there are some energy things that happen during and after that some might say are good releases. But I don't think its cessation. But if it was then you should be able to repeat a fruition off 5meo. 

In summary it might help you get to a non 5meo cessation but it by itself isn't a cessation.