Stream Entry Claim

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Andy H, modified 9 Years ago.

Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Dear DhO friends,

I hereby present my "claim to have attained Stream Entry" - obviously, with the reservation that I could be wrong. In fact, I cannot believe that I have done it - it feels kind of surreal. However, I have found little (if anything) that talks against it. Thus, in a moment of rationality, I forward this claim.

The latest experiences:
13/8: SE - experienced a rapid shift from high Eq to a long and powerful bliss wave, but did not notice the discontinuity (so I tried to convince myself that it was a strange A&P event)
15/8: Experienced a clear discontinuity between high Eq and a long and powerful bliss wave (got a bit chocked/scared by the "reboot experience")
18/8: Experienced a discontinuity between high Eq and a bliss wave (less powerful)

To resume my main reasons for believing that I have attained SE.
During meditation since the SE event:
1) When sitting down and closing my eyes, I instantly access concentration (i.e. before having counted 5 breaths)
2) Nanas pass by automatically from A&P - the 2nd-4th jhana are very clear and I think I may be able to distinguish between all of the nanas as well
In the two following fruitions:
1) The cessation incident was clear, in the sense that I experienced a discontinuity
2) I was in a state of deep equanimity before experiencing the discontinuity

The story of the last days of my "battle" to deepen equanimity and move on to SE is found in this thread: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/2144036

I will attempt to get 2nd one day in the near future. However, right now I will further investigate the nanas and enjoy my current state ;-)

Best Regards

Andy
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N A, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 157 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
Congrats!

Out of curiosity (I think I may be hitting high eq, so trying to learn more about it),

* How long did it take you after getting to high eq?
* Was there any breakthrough that led to it (i.e. did you become aware of more stuff that previously eluded noting)?
* How does it feel to be enlightened? ;)
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Andy H, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
N A:
Congrats!

Thanks ;-)

N A:
* How long did it take you after getting to high eq?

I am not sure - I think I have been cycling between A&P and Eq for about 2,5 months before getting SE. I think the final time I got from the DN into Eq, I was in Eq in less than 2 weeks. In my post I use the term "high eq" to refer to a state during meditation, where almost all vibrations seem to stop - this only happened at times during these weeks. Also, I may mention that prior to my A&P event I had done one year of concentration practice, and before that years of informal stuff. Thus, I believe my concentration was rather good, which helped me not dozing off while being in Eq for many hours a day.

N A:
* Was there any breakthrough that led to it (i.e. did you become aware of more stuff that previously eluded noting)?

I have been struggling with pains if sitting for longer periods, since I started meditating, so my biggest breakthrough may have been that I at some point became able to meditate reclining without falling asleep. This meant that I could easily meditatate 10-15 hours day after day. The last days before the SE, I did as Tommy suggested, namely: "Rather than paying close attention to the vibrations, turn the focus towards what's observing this as it happens" - at times I repeated the question "what is it that is observing?" I did not do much noting at this stage, compared to investigating the sense of an observer and trying to calm down the heavy vibrations in the ajna spot (which Bruno Loff talks about).

N A:
* How does it feel to be enlightened? ;)

I would not use that word about myself - besides, it is only first path ;-) Having said that, I feel really good at the moment, nothing at all seems to be able to piss me off. I had sort of the same feeling while in equanimity, but even stronger now. Also, I have a sense of completion - I can allow myself to skip meditation, which was unheard of for me before.

When reading my answer, please be aware of that I am a complete rookie in insight meditation compared to many of the guys in here. But, good luck! - it sounds like you are almost there if you can keep the momentum going ;-)

BR

Andy
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Andy H, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I think the "honeymoon" is over, i.e. that the review phase have slipped away. Today when I sat down to meditate, sensations felt solid and unconnected. It was no surprise though, since I had felt the "review phase powers" fading the last days. Also I was beginning to grow tired of the fruitless attempts of finding an easier way of calling up fruitions - the two times I managed to do so, it took many hours of hard concentration.

So now I will attempt to attain 2nd path. Unfortunately, I have almost no clue of what took me to A&P the last time, since I was not aware of the maps at that time, and because it was done over a period of about 1.5 years of various meditation experiments. I am not going to use 1.5 years on getting there again this time.

Also, I still have doubts of if I really did attain SE or it was something else - although: I still feel somewhat different, the fruition experiences blew me away, and I experienced the same nanas pass by over and over in the review phase. Strange...

Thus, advice on how to claim 2nd path fast would be appreciated (links, posts or Skype).

Thanks ;-)

Best Regards

Andy
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Eran G, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 182 Join Date: 1/5/10 Recent Posts
Hey Andy,

Got a few questions for you, hope it's not too much but I think those are good things to look at and contemplate at this point.

How is your moment to moment experience different from a few months ago? How do you feel about practice compared to before (you mentioned a sense of completion, can you elaborate)? How is your relationship to thoughts, feelings, the body different? How is your experience of the self different?
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Andy H, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Hey Eran,
Eran G:
Got a few questions for you, hope it's not too much but I think those are good things to look at and contemplate at this point.

I appreciate you taking the time. Since I cannot talk about my experiences to anyone I know, it is probably a good thing to write about it in this forum. My doubts may in fact be an effect of not having shared the experience in the same way that I share other experiences in life.
Eran G:
How is your moment to moment experience different from a few months ago?

I am not totally sure of what you mean. However, before I very often got restless and caught up in plans and ambitions. Since the SE I seem to rest much more in the moment - the time used on planning thoughts have been dramatically reduced, as well as restlessness.
Eran G:
How do you feel about practice compared to before (you mentioned a sense of completion, can you elaborate)?

Before, I would squeeze in as much practice into my day as possible - it was the overshadowing thing in my life for some time. Also I felt that I continuously broke small mental barriers, like I was gaining insights - at least much of the time. Now I do not feel a particularly great need to practice - I have lost the feeling of that I need to go somewhere. It is like I have solved some puzzle. Also, before I read a lot of Buddhist literature and spent time with a Buddhist group. Now I do not feel any urge to do this anymore. In fact, I feel that what Buddha was talking about may be much more simple and natural than I once expected. Thus, I have a much less religious perspective.
Eran G:
How is your relationship to thoughts, feelings, the body different?

Before, I often experienced some social anxiety in particular contexts. At the moment, I seems like no social situation can produce anxiety. In fact, social anxiety has not happened once since the SE. Concerning the body, I feel more impersonal about bodily sensations, but I think this has been a gradual process, since taking in the noting technique. Physical pains do not have the same effect on my psyche as before. However, in the DN, the weeks before SE, I could not deal with physical pain at all. In retrospective, I find it scary how my mind behaved in that period.
Eran G:
How is your experience of the self different?

I do not know if it is, besides what I mentioned above. However, the days after the SE I at times found it a bit odd to see my face in the mirror, a bit like a stranger. Now I have gotten use to it again. However, after a SE, I expected to feel a great reduction in the feeling of a distinction between me and others - but I do not feel different in this aspect? Is there something I could explore in this context?

Best regards

Andy
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Eran G, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 182 Join Date: 1/5/10 Recent Posts
Hi Andy, Thank you for answering!

I'm guessing you're might still in the afterglow of stream entry and the intensive practice that preceded it. It might be a good idea to come back to those questions once every month or two for the next while. This will help you see the insights maturing and might help with whatever doubts still linger.

You mention expecting to see the distinction between yourself and others reduced, I don't think that's expected at SE, perhaps at 4th path but I could be wrong about this. There's some glimpses into it you might be able to catch, though, and this is related to resting in the experience.

Try resting in the experience and notice if and how the experience in that mode is changed. You might find that you're able to rest in direct experience of your body and that this comes with a slight shift in perception (btw, this may already be what you mean by resting in the moment). Kenneth Folk has a practice that I found helpful at this point which he call Direct Mode, might wanna check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WiCXn87BF4

HTH,
Eran.
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Andy H, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Thanks, Eran.

Eran G:
I'm guessing you're might still in the afterglow of stream entry and the intensive practice that preceded it. It might be a good idea to come back to those questions once every month or two for the next while. This will help you see the insights maturing and might help with whatever doubts still linger.

I will keep these points in mind - they are god reminders of that something significantly has changed - changes beyond what can be attributed to imagination. Also, I think that when I pass the A&P event of the 2nd path and move into DN again, my skepticism will go to rest.

Eran G:
You mention expecting to see the distinction between yourself and others reduced, I don't think that's expected at SE, perhaps at 4th path but I could be wrong about this. There's some glimpses into it you might be able to catch, though, and this is related to resting in the experience.

I am not sure of where I read this - it may have been related to "full enlightenment" and another Buddhist tradition. I am glad to get rid of this expectation.

Eran G:
Try resting in the experience and notice if and how the experience in that mode is changed. You might find that you're able to rest in direct experience of your body and that this comes with a slight shift in perception (btw, this may already be what you mean by resting in the moment). Kenneth Folk has a practice that I found helpful at this point which he call Direct Mode, might wanna check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WiCXn87BF4

You are right, KF's description reminds of what I describe as "resting in the moment". I like this practice - so I will explore it further.

Eran G:
HTH,

It surely did ;-)

Best Regards

Andy
patrick kenny, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 34 Join Date: 9/30/10 Recent Posts
Hello Andy,

When you mention "rebooting", can you elaborate a bit? What is the experience of rebooting like for you? Or for anyone else that might like to chime in?

Also, thank you for using the term. Doing a search on the DhO for "reboot" led me to a few interesting posts that I had overlooked.

patrick
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
What is the experience of rebooting like for you? Or for anyone else that might like to chime in?

Ever play the Super Nintendo? Remember what happened when you hit the reset button?
patrick kenny, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Stream Entry Claim

Posts: 34 Join Date: 9/30/10 Recent Posts
Thanks for the reply Tommy, but no, I never had an SNES emoticon

I'd like to say we were too poor, but the truth is that it was after my time.

Patrick

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