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Getting past desire for deliverance

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Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
10/23/20 3:55 AM
I had incredible, mindblowing A&P experiences about a year ago now. Breezed through the previous stages of dark night over the course of a couple months, and have been stuck now for about 9 months at desire for deliverance.
I had struggled with a strong desire for a for the utter extinction of the capital S Self and all manifestation for months. It is a little better now.
Not a question, I suppose. I have faith

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
10/23/20 4:25 AM as a reply to William.
William:
I had incredible, mindblowing A&P experiences about a year ago now. Breezed through the previous stages of dark night over the course of a couple months, and have been stuck now for about 9 months at desire for deliverance.
I had struggled with a strong desire for a for the utter extinction of the capital S Self and all manifestation for months. It is a little better now.
Not a question, I suppose. I have faith


Sometimes it helps to ask yoursef why you feel the way you do and if you think of a answer, keep asking digging through the layers. In this case ask yourself why you want deliverance. Sometimes once you remove the attachment to progress, you get past the point at which you are stuck.

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
10/25/20 1:34 AM as a reply to William.
William:
I had incredible, mindblowing A&P experiences about a year ago now. Breezed through the previous stages of dark night over the course of a couple months, and have been stuck now for about 9 months at desire for deliverance.
I had struggled with a strong desire for a for the utter extinction of the capital S Self and all manifestation for months. It is a little better now.
Not a question, I suppose. I have faith


If someone feel's stuck, they could try a different kind of meditation. 

In addition to vipassana you could try:

Samatha
Metta
Mindfulness in daily life
Jhana
Brahma Vihara
(and maybe others I can't think of now)

There are different forms and different ways of practicing all of these including vipassana so there are many choices if you want to try something different.

Buddha instructed his students to practice both vipassana and samatha, so if you doing just vipassana you might try adding some samatha.

I have tried many different techniques and found that I take what I find useful from each and learn how each is useful in different situations.

I use aspects of all of these including vipassana regularly.

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
10/25/20 2:02 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
William:
I had incredible, mindblowing A&P experiences about a year ago now. Breezed through the previous stages of dark night over the course of a couple months, and have been stuck now for about 9 months at desire for deliverance.
I had struggled with a strong desire for a for the utter extinction of the capital S Self and all manifestation for months. It is a little better now.
Not a question, I suppose. I have faith


If someone feel's stuck, they could try a different kind of meditation. 

In addition to vipassana you could try:

Samatha
Metta
Mindfulness in daily life
Jhana
Brahma Vihara
(and maybe others I can't think of now)

There are different forms and different ways of practicing all of these including vipassana so there are many choices if you want to try something different.

Buddha instructed his students to practice both vipassana and samatha, so if you doing just vipassana you might try adding some samatha.

I have tried many different techniques and found that I take what I find useful from each and learn how each is useful in different situations.

I use aspects of all of these including vipassana regularly.

I want to try some metta. My love for family and people really pulled me back from a hopelessness I felt earlier today.

I often find the thought "I wish I was a person" or "I wish I was still a person" arising. It makes very little sense- this thought has come and often demanded to be spoken- out loud for nine months now.

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
10/25/20 2:08 AM as a reply to William.
William:
Jim Smith:
William:
I had incredible, mindblowing A&P experiences about a year ago now. Breezed through the previous stages of dark night over the course of a couple months, and have been stuck now for about 9 months at desire for deliverance.
I had struggled with a strong desire for a for the utter extinction of the capital S Self and all manifestation for months. It is a little better now.
Not a question, I suppose. I have faith


If someone feel's stuck, they could try a different kind of meditation. 

In addition to vipassana you could try:

Samatha
Metta
Mindfulness in daily life
Jhana
Brahma Vihara
(and maybe others I can't think of now)

There are different forms and different ways of practicing all of these including vipassana so there are many choices if you want to try something different.

Buddha instructed his students to practice both vipassana and samatha, so if you doing just vipassana you might try adding some samatha.

I have tried many different techniques and found that I take what I find useful from each and learn how each is useful in different situations.

I use aspects of all of these including vipassana regularly.

I want to try some metta. My love for family and people really pulled me back from a hopelessness I felt earlier today.

I often find the thought "I wish I was a person" or "I wish I was still a person" arising. It makes very little sense- this thought has come and often demanded to be spoken- out loud for nine months now.

The first link here is a guided metta meditation: 
https://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_guidedMed_index.html


Try asking yourself why you wish you were a person.

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
10/28/20 6:57 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
William:
Jim Smith:
William:
I had incredible, mindblowing A&P experiences about a year ago now. Breezed through the previous stages of dark night over the course of a couple months, and have been stuck now for about 9 months at desire for deliverance.
I had struggled with a strong desire for a for the utter extinction of the capital S Self and all manifestation for months. It is a little better now.
Not a question, I suppose. I have faith


If someone feel's stuck, they could try a different kind of meditation. 

In addition to vipassana you could try:

Samatha
Metta
Mindfulness in daily life
Jhana
Brahma Vihara
(and maybe others I can't think of now)

There are different forms and different ways of practicing all of these including vipassana so there are many choices if you want to try something different.

Buddha instructed his students to practice both vipassana and samatha, so if you doing just vipassana you might try adding some samatha.

I have tried many different techniques and found that I take what I find useful from each and learn how each is useful in different situations.

I use aspects of all of these including vipassana regularly.

I want to try some metta. My love for family and people really pulled me back from a hopelessness I felt earlier today.

I often find the thought "I wish I was a person" or "I wish I was still a person" arising. It makes very little sense- this thought has come and often demanded to be spoken- out loud for nine months now.

The first link here is a guided metta meditation: 
https://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_guidedMed_index.html


Try asking yourself why you wish you were a person.
Thank you, friend. Opening up to you led to opening up to people in daily life, my close friends, and my family. That was a wonderful four minutes.

in my self absorbed state I find great suffering.Somehow, through some magic by merging my suffering with the suffering of someone else or of humanity itself or of consciousness itself two sufferings make a bliss.

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
10/28/20 9:05 AM as a reply to William.
Sometimes, whether consciously or unconsciously, we choose self-absorption and suffering because then at least we have a solid sense of being something and knowing what we are. It can be like living in a bunker, maybe miserable and claustrophobic, but at least we know we're sorta safe. But it's not really living... It can be hard to let go of that certainty and safety, even if there is also suffering, because we think that without it, then there is just nothing, void, not-knowing, no self, no security, the unknown, and danger everywhere...

My sense is that "wanting to be a person" involves a hope of letting go of the solidity of self-absorbtion and that living-in-a-bunker life, and instead finding a more interactive and alive way of being. 

The trick is to give up thinking in all or nothing ways. It's not like you have to choose self-absorption or no-self, bunker living or totally unprotected living. It's more like learning to leave the self-absorption/bunker for a while and then returning. Slowly expanding your sense of being an alive person, but also being comfortable with returning to the bunker when you feel you need a little safety.

Despite all of the entertaining stories about "sudden enlightenment" and "major insights"... the truth is that most progress happens in the same way that physical progress happens: slowly, daily, incrementally, and without big jumps in ability. One day you can do a push up, maybe a week later you can do two... and so it goes.

Hopefully you can figure out a way to experiement a little each day, leave your comfort zone for just a little bit of time, try things that are just a little scary every so often. That's the way to become a sane and sorta-happy human person. No need for being perfect  --  that's just more unhelpful all-or-nothing thinking "either I'm totally perfect or a total failure". Just a little bit of experimentation and playfulness is what is needed. Part of being a person is knowing that none of us are perfect.

Best wishes!

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
11/9/20 12:55 AM as a reply to William.
William:
I had incredible, mindblowing A&P experiences about a year ago now. Breezed through the previous stages of dark night over the course of a couple months, and have been stuck now for about 9 months at desire for deliverance.
I had struggled with a strong desire for a for the utter extinction of the capital S Self and all manifestation for months. It is a little better now.
Not a question, I suppose. I have faith

Dogen tells a story about the infinitely small buddha. It seems there was a monk who went through many trials and eventually a bodhisattva opened his hand and showed him the infinitely small buddha. A monk became fascinated with this story and wanted to be shown the infintely small buddha by a zen master. The master called him over, opened his hand, and asked him, "what do you see?"

terry
   

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
11/9/20 1:16 AM as a reply to William.
William:
Jim Smith:
William:
I had incredible, mindblowing A&P experiences about a year ago now. Breezed through the previous stages of dark night over the course of a couple months, and have been stuck now for about 9 months at desire for deliverance.
I had struggled with a strong desire for a for the utter extinction of the capital S Self and all manifestation for months. It is a little better now.
Not a question, I suppose. I have faith


If someone feel's stuck, they could try a different kind of meditation. 

In addition to vipassana you could try:

Samatha
Metta
Mindfulness in daily life
Jhana
Brahma Vihara
(and maybe others I can't think of now)

There are different forms and different ways of practicing all of these including vipassana so there are many choices if you want to try something different.

Buddha instructed his students to practice both vipassana and samatha, so if you doing just vipassana you might try adding some samatha.

I have tried many different techniques and found that I take what I find useful from each and learn how each is useful in different situations.

I use aspects of all of these including vipassana regularly.

I want to try some metta. My love for family and people really pulled me back from a hopelessness I felt earlier today.

I often find the thought "I wish I was a person" or "I wish I was still a person" arising. It makes very little sense- this thought has come and often demanded to be spoken- out loud for nine months now.

   Sounds like having a baby.

   I think sometimes people can practice in such a way as to attenuate their egos and then they no longer know what to do with themselves. Thus the feeling of being stuck when you can't either go forward or backward. Like a cow with its horns stuck in a fence. The residue of ego feels like a shadow of itself, nothing left but the tail.

  In the mumonkan case 38:

Goso said: "When a buffalo goes out of his enclosure to the edge of the abyss,
his horns and his head and his hoofs all pass through, but why can't the tail also pass?


   The answer is not to reestablish ego. Nor is it to wipe out the last vestiges of ego. One considers the koan and awaits some sort of breakthrough.

   Have faith.

terry

RE: Getting past desire for deliverance
Answer
11/9/20 5:15 AM as a reply to shargrol.
shargrol:
Sometimes, whether consciously or unconsciously, we choose self-absorption and suffering because then at least we have a solid sense of being something and knowing what we are. It can be like living in a bunker, maybe miserable and claustrophobic, but at least we know we're sorta safe. But it's not really living... It can be hard to let go of that certainty and safety, even if there is also suffering, because we think that without it, then there is just nothing, void, not-knowing, no self, no security, the unknown, and danger everywhere...

My sense is that "wanting to be a person" involves a hope of letting go of the solidity of self-absorbtion and that living-in-a-bunker life, and instead finding a more interactive and alive way of being. 

The trick is to give up thinking in all or nothing ways. It's not like you have to choose self-absorption or no-self, bunker living or totally unprotected living. It's more like learning to leave the self-absorption/bunker for a while and then returning. Slowly expanding your sense of being an alive person, but also being comfortable with returning to the bunker when you feel you need a little safety.

Despite all of the entertaining stories about "sudden enlightenment" and "major insights"... the truth is that most progress happens in the same way that physical progress happens: slowly, daily, incrementally, and without big jumps in ability. One day you can do a push up, maybe a week later you can do two... and so it goes.

Hopefully you can figure out a way to experiement a little each day, leave your comfort zone for just a little bit of time, try things that are just a little scary every so often. That's the way to become a sane and sorta-happy human person. No need for being perfect  --  that's just more unhelpful all-or-nothing thinking "either I'm totally perfect or a total failure". Just a little bit of experimentation and playfulness is what is needed. Part of being a person is knowing that none of us are perfect.

Best wishes!

This is beautiful. Worth coming back to re-read it. 

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