Serious practitioner here, but...

Simon L, modified 12 Years ago at 8/22/11 12:32 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/22/11 12:32 PM

Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 214 Join Date: 8/17/11 Recent Posts
Hi folks,

There's a bit of disappointment on my side. I'm truly a serious practitioner of AF and have posted a lot about my experiences, and also my questions.

I have put up an exercise thread with detailed info on my progress and some questions/requests for insights.

Yet, hardly any responses. Some, and I'm grateful for them, but other than that, nothing.

I'm serious about this stuff. I'm doing my best. But if I keep posting with no replies, what's the point?

Things are going fast for me. And I feel I have a lot of useful stuff to share.

Please have a look at my posts and comment if you can.

Maybe I'll set up a new thread after that, focusing all my progress and efforts on there, hoping people will comment.

I've been living in the actual world for about 1 second (duration of several experiences combined) in the last two days. After 4 weeks of practice.

I know it's not much, but 1 second will be 10 seconds next month. And maybe a minute after that.

So please, do keep interacting!
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David R Nelson, modified 12 Years ago at 8/22/11 1:13 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/22/11 1:12 PM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/22/11 Recent Posts
Hi Simon, I think that you will find digging through the older threads will prove to be quite enlightening as you practice AF.

I have been working on this for a few years now with incremental success. I find things are better than ever now for me except that a high level of diligence is truly necessary at all times to progress.

One second of PCE is great, but how will you make living the PCE an overriding and dominant intention in your life? That's what we are talking about, right? The choice is yours. I means you have to give yourself permission to make that choice. All that stands in your way is yourself, right? lf kept clearly in your mind then you can keep progressing and establishing the best habit(s).

So, what obstacles do you see yourself as having now?

What is keeping you from experiencing this moment of being alive? I might add that an actual experience of this moment of being alive is necessary and sufficient to get you to where you want to go. -David
Simon L, modified 12 Years ago at 8/22/11 1:35 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/22/11 1:35 PM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 214 Join Date: 8/17/11 Recent Posts
David R Nelson:
Hi Simon, I think that you will find digging through the older threads will prove to be quite enlightening as you practice AF.


I've been going through them and find them quite enlightening. What I need right now though is some feedback on how I'm doing. Keeping it practical though.

I'm the type of person who goes fast and gets results sometimes before I can handle them. That's why I'm looking for support here.

David R Nelson:
I have been working on this for a few years now with incremental success. I find things are better than ever now for me except that a high level of diligence is truly necessary at all times to progress.


I agree very much. I've been going 100% at this.

David R Nelson:
One second of PCE is great, but how will you make living the PCE an overriding and dominant intention in your life? That's what we are talking about, right? The choice is yours. I means you have to give yourself permission to make that choice. All that stands in your way is yourself, right? lf kept clearly in your mind then you can keep progressing and establishing the best habit(s).


Before I got into this, I was the most stressed out person in the world. Now I can relax more and more.

I want this. Tbh, if someone told me they could do this relatively safe brain surgery to get me into the exact same place as Richard, I'd go for it.

The positive thing about my situation is that I've been examining myself for at least 10 years now, just not in the HAIETMOBA way. But I have seen most of myself already. I just wish I would have done it in the HAIETMOBA way to begin with.

David R Nelson:
So, what obstacles do you see yourself as having now?


The main obstacle is that I sometimes get to this glimpse of seeing the actual world, but I cannot get it back intentionally. I keep practicing the method, which brings about more and more positive results. But I wish I could get the actual world back intentionally.

Also, Richard has talked about this feeling of turning over in the nape of his neck, which started his actual freedom. I've been having that feeling there as well, and something shifted as a result (I have another thread on this).

As a result, along with my normal functioning, I've been constantly experiencing a near PCE like state.

It's like what happened to Richard, happened to me, but incomplete.

I want it to go all the way, get it over with.

In all honesty, that is my current block. This obsession with "have the thing happen in my brain fully already and get it over with".

David R Nelson:
What is keeping you from experiencing this moment of being alive? I might add that an actual experience of this moment of being alive is necessary and sufficient to get you to where you want to go. -David


Thanks David, you are very clear in your explanation.

Ok, honesty here...

I'm experiencing frustration and urgency, combined with the desire of this thing in my neck happening all the way already. I'm in a half-way there state, and want to get it over with.

There is also fear. I've 'hit" the area of instinctual passions and am torn. One part of me wants to keep them, the other part of me wants to get it over with.

And then there's control. I cannot control many of the things that are happening to me. And although I know it will end in something wonderful, this feeling of "I" not being there to find it wonderful kicks in the survival mode, making me emotional.

This then makes it hard to refocus on the actual world.

I know I'm taking it too seriously. Richard says that it is not a serious business whatsoever. But I'm overtaken by fear, desire to have it happen, conflict between the two of them, and attempting to keep practicing. But the practicing is very difficult with these emotions going on and at this stage.

I keep going though. Have been doing HAIETMOBA in my dreams even, evening out some nightmares.

But this is heavy.

And this is exactly the situation I would like to have some help with.
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 5:38 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 5:38 AM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 3265 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
I do not have AF yet, but I can try to help and perhaps a full AFer will chime in later. In the meantime:

I agree, you are taking this too seriously. Urgency and the like help you stay with it, but they must be focused on sensuousness and felicity.

More stillness, lightness, playfulness and the like would probably help. More time in nature would probably help.

More time realizing something about right here would probably help: subtle future thoughts should be seen happening now, with the sincere wish to resolve the tension that keeps you from enjoying right now, as enjoyment helps make the mind whole and clear, and that helps with AF.

That also goes for thoughts of self and other, such as "I am not AF and Richard is", that sort of thing, must be seen as just things happening now, and to tune wider and to more enjoyment when they are happening, more flesh and blood body just here in this fairytale universe which is experiencing itself and doing things itself, more enjoying the colors, textures, smells, sounds, and the like of this moment, the width of space, the silence of things, the rich details that come from naiveté, and, as Tarin said, the subtle excitement at the chance to be foolish.

There is some maturation process that takes place, some work to be done that reconditions the brain to more automatically be ok with things. I am not saying that you couldn't just get it right now, but I am saying that sometimes an organic process of integrating these things is going to take some time, and the more you make a divide between a goal and this moment, between AF and now, between how things are and how you wish them to be, the more this will be difficult. Settling into your feelings as feelings, just ordinary human feelings, keeps you grounded in attentiveness and sensuousness, keeps you here, keeps you on track. There is something to be said for accepting that the work of working through layers and roles and ideas about yourself has to be done, and yet simultaneously just having fun being here and doing that and getting to feel the textures of that now, realizing that there will be no you that gets or does anything, so you might as well enjoy the process.

These are my thoughts as they come to me this early morning. I hope that is helpful in some way. Again, I don't claim AF, but these concepts have made things more interesting and workable for me.
Simon L, modified 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 7:05 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 7:05 AM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 214 Join Date: 8/17/11 Recent Posts
I pray for the day that they make managing quotes on forums easy. emoticon

In any case:

Daniel M. Ingram:
I do not have AF yet, but I can try to help and perhaps a full AFer will chime in later. In the meantime:

I agree, you are taking this too seriously. Urgency and the like help you stay with it, but they must be focused on sensuousness and felicity.

More stillness, lightness, playfulness and the like would probably help. More time in nature would probably help.


Yes, very true. I looked into this seriousness about an hour ago. I was in my mind, worrying. At one point I thought: "What the hell am I doing?". Then I focused back on HAIETMOBA and I felt the wind on my skin an I relaxed. That experience seems to have taken away of the presence and intensity of the worry.

And funny that you mention nature. I noticed that the practice is so much more easy when I'm in nature. There's this natural stillness, beauty and "things being as they are" that makes it much easier to get into the right state.

Daniel M. Ingram:
More time realizing something about right here would probably help: subtle future thoughts should be seen happening now, with the sincere wish to resolve the tension that keeps you from enjoying right now, as enjoyment helps make the mind whole and clear, and that helps with AF.

That also goes for thoughts of self and other, such as "I am not AF and Richard is", that sort of thing, must be seen as just things happening now, and to tune wider and to more enjoyment when they are happening, more flesh and blood body just here in this fairytale universe which is experiencing itself and doing things itself, more enjoying the colors, textures, smells, sounds, and the like of this moment, the width of space, the silence of things, the rich details that come from naiveté, and, as Tarin said, the subtle excitement at the chance to be foolish.


This is brilliant.

As I was walking to the store today, I noticed that the original AF practice brings about so many new perceptions, accumulating into a better and better life experience.

And when in doubt, I always go back and ask "How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?" That always gets me back on track.

Daniel M. Ingram:
There is some maturation process that takes place, some work to be done that reconditions the brain to more automatically be ok with things. I am not saying that you couldn't just get it right now, but I am saying that sometimes an organic process of integrating these things is going to take some time, and the more you make a divide between a goal and this moment, between AF and now, between how things are and how you wish them to be, the more this will be difficult. Settling into your feelings as feelings, just ordinary human feelings, keeps you grounded in attentiveness and sensuousness, keeps you here, keeps you on track. There is something to be said for accepting that the work of working through layers and roles and ideas about yourself has to be done, and yet simultaneously just having fun being here and doing that and getting to feel the textures of that now, realizing that there will be no you that gets or does anything, so you might as well enjoy the process.


Brilliant! Just reading this took away a big chunk of concern on my part.

Daniel M. Ingram:
These are my thoughts as they come to me this early morning. I hope that is helpful in some way. Again, I don't claim AF, but these concepts have made things more interesting and workable for me.


Always appreciated.

Just wondering Daniel, if you don't mind. I have a question about your own practice and goals.

You have a lot of experience and are very advanced in certain practices. What I was wondering is, is AF your goal or do you see something else as the point you want to reach?
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Brian Eleven, modified 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 12:24 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 12:24 PM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 221 Join Date: 9/14/10 Recent Posts
Simon
Thanks for the thread, I can completely relate to your initial post. I've also felt somewhat invisible on forums at various times in my practice. I've looked at these feelings in myself and realized that "I" am looking to be validated in my choices. I want someone else to give me a pat on the head and say "good job" so that I can feel good about myself. Almost no one in my daily life knows about my practice, and those who do think I'm wasting my time, so it's sometimes a lonely road. Oh well! My choice to continue.
Rather pathetic and limiting. It has, however, made me look at why exactly I'm practicing in a more realistic light. I haven't always liked the answers I've gotten, but that's life, for me, at that time. AF includes an unraveling of social identity, and this is surely a part of mine, so it's part of the larger process(maybe). I'm not suggesting you have the same feelings as I do, but it may be a good opportunity to dig into those feelings and look at what lies below. You should also know, I'm making this up as I go along(my entire life) and am not an expert on any of this.

Daniel
Thanks for the simple and concise post. Exactly what I need right now, I can always benefit from a reminder to lighten up!
Simon L, modified 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 1:50 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 1:50 PM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 214 Join Date: 8/17/11 Recent Posts
Brian Eleven:
Simon
Thanks for the thread, I can completely relate to your initial post. I've also felt somewhat invisible on forums at various times in my practice. I've looked at these feelings in myself and realized that "I" am looking to be validated in my choices. I want someone else to give me a pat on the head and say "good job" so that I can feel good about myself. Almost no one in my daily life knows about my practice, and those who do think I'm wasting my time, so it's sometimes a lonely road. Oh well! My choice to continue.
Rather pathetic and limiting. It has, however, made me look at why exactly I'm practicing in a more realistic light. I haven't always liked the answers I've gotten, but that's life, for me, at that time. AF includes an unraveling of social identity, and this is surely a part of mine, so it's part of the larger process(maybe). I'm not suggesting you have the same feelings as I do, but it may be a good opportunity to dig into those feelings and look at what lies below. You should also know, I'm making this up as I go along(my entire life) and am not an expert on any of this.

Daniel
Thanks for the simple and concise post. Exactly what I need right now, I can always benefit from a reminder to lighten up!


Hi Brian,

For me personally it's about two things. First of all, I believe that shared effort and communication can help everyone involved to progress better and faster.

Second, sometimes I feel the need to just interact. To share just for the sake of sharing. I think there's nothing wrong with that and can be very helpful.

About the social identity, I have noticed that the more I look into it, certain parts of it are intertwined with the instinctual self. Social anxiety for example, a fear based response (instinctual) in the social area of life.

If I may, and this is based on just an impression I got from your post, do you have some issues with self worth? Sorry to be so direct, but when you said "Rather pathetic and limiting.", the first thing I thought was that it would be useful to apply the AF method to that. And then, later, I realized it came across to me as something that could be based on a negative self imagine. Another thing the AF practice can take care of.

Anyway, may be entirely wrong here, but wanted to share it anyway. Either it could be helpful, or I'm just wrong. emoticon
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Jon T, modified 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 7:34 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 7:34 PM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/30/10 Recent Posts
Hey Simon,

I haven't been replying to posts as often lately or I'd have replied by now. Essentially, I'm more focused on my own practice than other peoples and i have less of that guru-wannabe than i had before.

About the social identity, I have noticed that the more I look into it, certain parts of it are intertwined with the instinctual self. Social anxiety for example, a fear based response (instinctual) in the social area of life.


It seems that you are in the process of learning how the self operates. It may be productive to come up with a rough schematic on how you view the process of self and post it on here. I'll reply with my observations.

jon
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Brian Eleven, modified 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 8:09 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/23/11 8:09 PM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 221 Join Date: 9/14/10 Recent Posts
Simon
If I post it it's open game for anyone to comment on, so feel free. Self worth is indeed an issue for me, much less so then before I began meditating, but still present. I tend to hide it as self-deprecating humor, but it is present.
I also agree with your first two points regarding interaction and it's benefits.

What is "the AF method" you mentioned regarding this type of issue. A link or comment would be great. I've looked at the AF site, but find it frustrating and confusing for the most part. It definitely contains gold, but I don't know where to start, and don't have a lot of time to spend looking.
Simon L, modified 12 Years ago at 8/24/11 10:00 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/24/11 10:00 AM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 214 Join Date: 8/17/11 Recent Posts
Jon T:
Hey Simon,

I haven't been replying to posts as often lately or I'd have replied by now. Essentially, I'm more focused on my own practice than other peoples and i have less of that guru-wannabe than i had before.

About the social identity, I have noticed that the more I look into it, certain parts of it are intertwined with the instinctual self. Social anxiety for example, a fear based response (instinctual) in the social area of life.


It seems that you are in the process of learning how the self operates. It may be productive to come up with a rough schematic on how you view the process of self and post it on here. I'll reply with my observations.

jon


Thanks for replying.

The process of self, as far as I can tell, is in it's core feeling based. The survival mechanism. I don't even think that there is a self but that the survival mechanism gives rise to the idea that there is one.

My guess is, that if one were to skip the examination of the social identity entirely and deleted this survival mechanism, it would all fall apart, including the social identity.

The social identity is a good entry point though, and as far as I can tell, closely intertwined with the survival mechanism.

Once, I started out at the social identity entry point, I noticed that there are many affective and survival based feelings in there. Which made me more aware of the instinctual self.

I thought this would be something very complicated, but it's just feelings and emotions. The self is nothing more than the survival mechanism that made the primitive beings we evolved from mate, fight, run away, form groups, protect each other, defend themselves and their group from threats. Basically doing everything to ensure the survival and evolution of the species.

Nowadays humans have evolved enough to not need this anymore to survive, and it does also cause a lot of malice and sorrow indeed.

But it's there. Maybe evolution will take it out eventually, but my guess is that each regular person can go without already.

That's how I see it at this point.
Simon L, modified 12 Years ago at 8/24/11 10:02 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/24/11 10:02 AM

RE: Serious practitioner here, but...

Posts: 214 Join Date: 8/17/11 Recent Posts
Brian Eleven:
Simon
If I post it it's open game for anyone to comment on, so feel free. Self worth is indeed an issue for me, much less so then before I began meditating, but still present. I tend to hide it as self-deprecating humor, but it is present.
I also agree with your first two points regarding interaction and it's benefits.

What is "the AF method" you mentioned regarding this type of issue. A link or comment would be great. I've looked at the AF site, but find it frustrating and confusing for the most part. It definitely contains gold, but I don't know where to start, and don't have a lot of time to spend looking.


Hi Brian,

http://actualfreedom.com.au/introduction/index.htm

That link contains all the basics.
Jose Moral, modified 12 Years ago at 8/25/11 4:00 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/25/11 4:00 AM

for insights

Posts: 23 Join Date: 1/26/11 Recent Posts
Simon!
I would like to recommend in your process 2 books:
- the power of now - Eckhart Tolle - also a new earth is very good
and especially - You Can Be Happy No Matter What: Five Principles for Keeping Life in Perspective - Richard Carlson

Maybe you have already read them, but I recommend to do it again and again... they are full of insights. I read the first many times, while practising a lot, underlining it, feeling it, etc.. it is very powerful.
And the second... in my opinion it is one of the most powerful books...
I read these books many times, slowly, before sleeping for example or at any moment.

And try to feel the respiration clearly (and little bit more profoundly as normally) and when exhale do like a low sound of pleasure "aaahhhh".... feel the importance of the body and how we sabotage its natural happiness and wellbeing...actually our thoughts are realities in our inner world!

also another very good book for inspiration in our process: nobody home - Jan Kersschot

Good luck
Simon L, modified 12 Years ago at 8/25/11 7:10 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 8/25/11 7:10 AM

RE: for insights

Posts: 214 Join Date: 8/17/11 Recent Posts
Jose Moral:
Simon!
I would like to recommend in your process 2 books:
- the power of now - Eckhart Tolle - also a new earth is very good
and especially - You Can Be Happy No Matter What: Five Principles for Keeping Life in Perspective - Richard Carlson

Maybe you have already read them, but I recommend to do it again and again... they are full of insights. I read the first many times, while practising a lot, underlining it, feeling it, etc.. it is very powerful.
And the second... in my opinion it is one of the most powerful books...
I read these books many times, slowly, before sleeping for example or at any moment.

And try to feel the respiration clearly (and little bit more profoundly as normally) and when exhale do like a low sound of pleasure "aaahhhh".... feel the importance of the body and how we sabotage its natural happiness and wellbeing...actually our thoughts are realities in our inner world!

also another very good book for inspiration in our process: nobody home - Jan Kersschot

Good luck


Thanks Jose! I'm always open to new sources of information. I like the respiration exercise btw, just gave it a go and it feels good.

Thanks!