.

Im following this log! Nice one! or should I say nice 3 (sits)  

That murk developing in the image space is an interesting visual stuff to watch and also note stuff like "interests" and other mind states clustering around that "seeing" etc ... 

Best wishes to you!

Ah yes, that image of the timer we all come to know very well Well done on noting this! In my experience there could be some unpleasant numbness in the buttocks and this would cause the image of the timer and even an image of the number of minutes left and if the numbness or pain is very solid and unpleasant I would see an image of me getting up from the seat , as in stopping with meditation and this usually has a "jerky urge idea" in which in image space looks a bit like a fast jerky shadow.

The cause for timer related thinking would most of the time be ignited by some unpleasantness in the body or lack of pleasant states in the mind (like being in Hell Realm and just wanting anything else but THIS). 

No matter which it is, the noting aparatus sure takes care of this as it immediatelly offers newly arisen objects which usually dont have anything to do with the timer related stuff. If we keep to at least 1 sensation a second we are usually on the right track of being dissembeded relatively fast and quickly realise that this timer image is fading with each repetition of it until its just gone and other stuff is being of more interest and so on and so forth  



And yes! We get quickly lost in a spinning scenario. As in falling a sleep; we never can tell when we actually fell asleep Same with these scenario spins, they are like a mighty Black Hole which sucks you away from Awakeness faster than you can blink  
Its ok. This happens and Im sure this will be with us for a very long time no matter how "advanced" we are. What matter is THAT MOMENT of being AWAKE AGAIN you notice that you have been "lost" and now you "see" (amazing grace) We keep coming back and back again to the Awake moment that knows it self. That deserves Celebration and not being pissed off with one self which usually is the case with most of us Im sure (Im guilty as charged) But even if we do blame ourselves or feel as we are not good enough in this meditation business , we can still note these mind states, but in truth its far more pleasant to celebrate the return to Awakeness And even this can be noted. 

"At one point I heard a neighbour's voice and immediately the volume of the noting voice decreased and the body contracted in which I noted "embarrassment". "

LOL this certainly happened in my sits too. I would be noting very loud and then would hear something outside thinking it's the neighbor which resulted in feeling embarrassed  

Just a tiny reminder; 

noting practice often works around unpleasant stuff so be open to note any arising in pleasant feels also. Maybe some warmth in hands or else in the body and don't shy away from it just because it's pleasant. Pleasant is also as important to see as neutral or unpleasant. 

To add; its good to scan the body every once in a while and check if there are tensions someplace and then relax those. In my experience my one hand would squeeze the other hand a bit when too much efforting. Or maybe just one finger would do that. Note and relax. No reason to sit with a body that's tensing due to too much effort. Always good to give space to the Whole Body Relaxing. This includes too much eye focus. Relax those eyes and let the focus get wider as you get into the sit which it narmturally will do unless we focus too much on the seeing object. 

This might not be relevant to you but felt like sharing anyway  

Yes, those strains and tensions. Treat them with relaxation and remember that it's of benefit to have a Relaxed Body. 

I think it has something to do with our lizard brain going all Fight or Flight and poor body gets all tense to be ready to leap  

Yes, if there is some pleasant sensation sure give it an investigation, go into it, see what mind states cluster around it, note "pleasant, pleasant" etc ... what ever is there. Just don't run away from it  


I think we do this running away with very unpleasant sensations or mind states too. It's all about Acceptance and letting it arise and pass and do its thing while noting it all unfold. 

ok, nuf of me babbling  

Experiment and and see for yourself. It's your mind see how it behaves when sleepiness and dozing off kicks in, dullness, etc ... calm-abiding is also a good practice. Test and see. 
Claim your practice. At the end you will have your own personal twist on this, your own practice. That's the way to do it. Test different angels and make your own unik practice. It's ok to create a fusion practice. I did it with open eyes Kasina + freestyle noting aloud. Works good for me.  See what you will find most engaging. Test and see Claim your practice! It's yours! Whatever that might be. Mantra, Jhana, Noting, Just sitting, Kasina, ...

Louis! It's great to see in the time that I have been gone, that your practice and log has really taken off! And you are being advised by the Noting master Papa Che who taught me much of my practice. Good job!

Noting schmuck Papa Che, seems more like it  

" I think the reason for me trying noting silently is because that's just what everyone else does" 

Ha! ain't that the truth for the most of us!  
I guess we all have that normative that meditation is to be ; silent , closed eyes, sitting cross legged, highly absorbed, blissed out, sitting all day long in a cave, have shaved head and ochre robes and all this will make my farts smell of Jasmin  

Yes, good idea! See for yourself and report back. Claim your own practice whatever that might be. Your practice is your raft floating over the vast ocean of Samsara. It's good if you don't constantly have doubt in that raft and instead be glad you have one at all. How many out there in the world keep drowning in the vastness of the Samsara Ocean and no raft at all to hold on to? Rejoice you do have a raft. Now sail it and watch everything even that doubt. 

Best wishes! 

That's a great sit Louis! Well done! 

"boredom, lack of motivation,"

I went back to your first intro post and could not see the intention behind you practicing. Why do you practice? Please take time to ponder this as it's not me who needs this. It's something that will power up your practice. 

Too much attention and too little intention can lead to boredom and lack of motivation as you describe. 

Why am I doing this practice? 

In Buddha's case it was him seeing suffering/struggle in everything and also seeing the truth of old age, sickness and death. He was inspired by this to dig into the mind and find out for himself. 

Then at some stage the dude got sick and tired of attainments and states he has mastered as still he would feel suffering being there so again he decided to sit under the tree and not get up until he awakens. 

Tgere is strong intention there and of course through practice there is also attention (paying). 

In 2008 I had this strong intention to find a way to reduce suffering and stress I've suffered from. This seeking led me to meditation. This was the drive during my practice. Sure it showed me that Jhanas are fragile and remove suffering while they last but not during off cushion life. 

Again last year I was sick and tired of being stuck in the dark night and I had a strong intention to go back to that one and only thing I can do and that is note This after This after This after This ... for me there was nothing else as there left but to watch and note This sensory experience unfolding. 

That was last year. Right now I'm again in a state that has not much intention but attention is good and plenty which again leads to boredom and lack of motivation or even slight confusion and wonder "what now?"  I'm now looking for that Intention. What is my intention? I'm listening, I'm looking, I'm feeling ...? Maybe it will pop out at some stage. Still I can't feel intention really being there at this time in my life hence practice is not really motivating as much. 

Try asking this question and no reason to rush into answering it.  

I second agnostic and think it was a good practice even if it felt unpleasant (as in not pleasant nor neutral). 

Thanks for sharing mate I think Chris Marti had the same/similar intention concerning the non-duality at some stage in his practice. Its a good driving intention for sure. We all start with an idea what awakening might be and how we might feel etc and this is our drive. Might turn to be somthing entirely different but as long it fuels THE PRACTICE it matters little  

As we cant really see each other in real life while we sit and we only have these written words I would like to ask you one more thing; 
Do you pay attention to body tensions while noting? In my expereince body parts can start clenching when one is really into noting. It can be anywhere, in the hands, fingers, neck, legs, arms, eyes ... etc. Its good to every now and then do a scan of the body and if such body parts are sensed, then relax them again. 

Also, in case I have been the cause of you feeling that way towards Jhana absorbtions then please reconsider Jhanas can be very healing and can introduce tranquility , which granted, does not last forever but still can be of benefit. One can certainly awaken to the truth of the Jhana states, note that they have pleasant parts and unpleasant and neutral and they dont last/impermanent. All experience can be seen for what they are. I never invited Jhana absorption into my life; they just came about back in the past and do so now also Aversion towards them is also important to Note! Its yet another experience. 

If at all possible dont forget to be a young lad and live your life with other folks while still doing meditation. It doesnt have to be just meditation. This journey can take time (decades even) so try not to let those twenties just pass you by Nothign wrong with girls and parties and fellowships and chasing other hobbies  

I also note At Loud. Really helps with the mindfulness

I agree with Papa Che about living your life. Not saying you should chase those things, but aversion to them is also a form of clinging ...

You say you want duality to cease, but awakening is realizing that it was never really happening and everything is fine just the way it is. On some level we already know this, which could explain your lack of motivation. Now if only I could remember this myself! 

Sounds like you get the awakening joke  The rest of the path as far as I can see is relaxing conditioning.

I see the ego as just shorthand for the aggregates, which are not something that could be destroyed (or enlightened).

Thinking about it a bit more, your lack of motivation could simply be aversion. What I've noticed is that it's easier to detect aversion in "real life" rather than on the cushion. In meditation aversion can show up as a sort of generalized sense of dissatisfaction and yuckiness, whereas in real life it's a more definite case of "I don't like this or that". I would start with your aversion to the material stuff you mentioned. If meditation is partly a way of escaping that then it's going to follow you. You're going to need some material basis to get through life whatever you end up doing, even if you become a monk. I speak as someone who gave away all their possessions and money aged 22, fantasized about running away to the mountains to get enlightened, went full rat race from 27-45, got depressed, started meditating again and now am somewhere in the middle ... could have saved myself and everyone else a lot of bother! 

Good man! Best wishes!  

Louis,

This is exactly what I did at my height before I got sick. I would do some pure concentration luke counting breaths and then do the rest of the session i freestyle noting. I also increased my time to one hour sessions. I think this is a good way to go. You will always have my support, May you practice well.

Interesting read. Louis keep up the hard work, seems to be paying off.

I have a couple questions:

1) when you say that you are noting 2-3 sensations every second.... are you noting everyone of them out loud. That seems like a lot talking? 

2) What is insight meditation?

3) What is duality vs nonduality?

I know these are very basic/beginer questions, just looking for some help on the journey. 

"when you say that you are noting 2-3 sensations every second.... are you noting everyone of them out loud. That seems like a lot talking?  "

you think  https://youtu.be/BXlTDprzkVc

I think Ingram said something like "spend 99% of time plain noting 1-10 matter of fact sensations a second and only 1% on contemplating". I think he might be right When meditating, then only meditating. Once of cushion then contemplating what happened. If insight shamcks you during the sit fine but "looking for 3C's" is just to be noted as "intention/desire/looking" and move on to the next sensation. 

If you catch yourself looking for stuff too much then try and return to only noting body sensations for the duration of the sit. 

Oh I see my bad. Indeed there will be these insights into stuff we observe. As long we are not forcing those conclusions just because someone said "you must see the 3 C's in everything, only then you are doing it right" Mind gets to learn about 3C's and dependent origination on its own through noting/noticing practice. Our job as a meditator is just to do the practice. But you already know all this  
Keep up the good work! 

You are already getting it from Master Che  but I also think you are kicking ass right now!

No master in here last time I checked  

Only a friend showing support, for better or worse. 

Ive been following this thread for a couple of days now. I tried doing the noting technique like papa che showed me in that youtube clip. It was very difficult. I felt like I was going white water rafting without a raft... The thoughts/sensations just kept coming. Is the goal to note every little sensation and thought or is it try and find the peace in between the thoughts, the quiet moments. There were moments when I felt and thought nothing and felt like I was at peace then, then a thought would come up and id be back in the water flying around with no control. Also, at times i felt like i was searching for thoughts and sensations, im assuming i should let them come naturally. Louis I give you credit for starting this up at a young age and being able to sit for 45 minutes. I set a timer for 10 minutes and felt like it was an hour. 

Hey Louis, sorry to hear about the stress and loneliness. Good to see you're still practicing in difficult times - that's where the real gold is you know. Going through university and out into the world is definitely one of life's major transitions and it's stressful for everyone, whether they show it or not. During such times it's fine to take practice a little easier and use it to destress and feel a bit better, if you can. No need to make any drastic changes, with mindfulness a lot of this stuff will just work itself out. It's also pretty normal for interest in one's subject to wane halfway through! All the best, George 

I second what agnostic is saying. You are a champ You seem to be taking breakup really well. Yes it will suck at times when alone but if you notice this on a day to day bases I'm sure it will not feel like that all the time. 

Also, your room IS your Cave Modern day Cave but still that's where we go to Yogi-away


Best wishes!  

No reason to scare yourself with such intelectualising. It seems to me that ALL of being a human person will Always be there until we die. So it's not about becoming a zombie or robot. ALL is same except the Knowing of ALL that arises is far clearer and hence less and less clinging to arisen and/or passed away sensations. There is more dispassion for experience, more compassion for all and yourself and simply speaking more naturally occurring awakeness in the conscious daily lifeing. 

I believe that Arahats still have smelly farts and feet and they go for massage when stiff in the body, they get sick and take painkillers, they take anesthesia when repairing teeth, and so on. 
Loosing agency is more of getting out of the way to all the naturally occuring lifeing which includes clearly stuff arising and passing constantly. 

Or something like that. However practice is the way to go about it. Certain realizations do stem from practice. 

Or something like that  

It was the other way round for me - seeing other people as robots didn't bother me, but realizing there was nobody at home on this end freaked me out. The difference could be due to narcissism - being more concerned with my own existence than that of others.

I think the degree to which one intellectualizes anatta probably depends on personality as well. My early insights into anatta were perceptual - looking at stuff and realizing I couldn't tell if I was watching it or it was watching me. But the big breakthrough came intellectually after reading Tony Parson's Open Secret. I wouldn't recommend that route unless necessary as it caused some terrifying depersonalization experiences. It seems that people who experience anatta on a more perceptual or energetic level have a smoother ride because it's better integrated. But that's just a guess based on a very small sample size.

It's probably a mistake to think that agency vanishes for good. Agency can be pretty useful at times! It seems that the end game is for agency to be fully known as just another phenomenon - impermanent, not self and unsatisfactory. An analogy would be that you can know how to drive a car without believing that being a driver is an essential part of who you are. But I wouldn't know, because I'm not there yet.

I  have gone through many periods where my noting has been slow and boring, barly 1 x/sec. My teacher had me just note unpleasent if there was unpleasentness there and boredom. Mine was also tied lower abdominal pressure. I think it will resolve itself but you may want to try a little coffee before the noting practice for a while to keep yourself stimulated. The addition of concentration practice is a goood one, just look out for sleepines, sloth and topor especially if there is a boredom in the noting practice. HTH. 

It's really important to note AND INVESTIGATE the feelings of slow, boring and unpleasant. They are a reflection of the kind of generalized aversion to experience which is responsible for 90% of our dissatisfaction in life. I suspect from the way you say 'Oh well we will see if this resolves itself' that you are averse to these aversive experiences and consider them to be a problem which you hope will go away? That's a pretty normal reaction, but the only way they go away is by accepting them for what they are - simply aversive experiences - without judging them. Even better is to investigate the feelings of judgement and resistance - that will take your practice to a new level. 

Louis, your practice log has changed the way I meditate and view meditation. I have been meditating for 5 years using apps and doing the same thing over and over, I knew there had to be more. So I started to read Dans book and stumbled upon this website. Your log was the first one that I checked out and I have stayed with it to see the updates. I started doing noting meditation last week or so and its helped me so much, I feel refreshed and excited to meditate again. Keep up the good work, looking forward to the next update.  

"even though I still consider myself very much a noob"

That will never change mate trust me! However it does mean you are a sane person and open to anything to happen. That is a very fine "spot" to be in! Humbleness. We are all noob's no matter where we think we might be! We might at times fall into madness of claiming to have attained something and go on and on about it just to fall back to the ground hard and realise again that "Im just a noob"
I would like to say that Im the worst of all dhamma noob's but Tim of the Cross is by far the worse as there is no hope for that lad  

I'm going to have to look him up. Good job!

Nice! Acceptance is a word we all know so well and yet we kind of dont really appreciate it fully That word was the very thing I took from Ingram last year when I decied to plow through my thick carpet of suffering or die trying That and "Do NOT Cling to Equanimity once out of DN" as it can feel so nice after a hammering Re-Obs.

My post-it list was simple;

1. Note aloud 1-10 (likely 1-5) matter of fact sensations without laps for the entire duration of the sit (45-60 minutes)
2. Use the voice to navigate rough patches (very loud if much resistance or aversion, or calm if too much agitated, or if clarity was not there use word "There is ...", or if uncertainty use word "certain" when actually certain about the noted object.
3. Acceptance of it ALL (like ALL-ALL however bad it was)
4. DO NOT CLING TO EQ ONCE OUT OF DN !!! (just keep noting aloud calm and gently)  

By all means use the silent noting. See how it compares to noting aloud. Make up your own mind about both of them There must be a good reason behind most folks  noting silently or even just noticing. I might be one of the weirdos  

I was always faithful to any practice I did. I was not changing practice every so often. If I'm to do it I really put my heart into it 100% or not at all. Any practice deserves at least 6 months to validate its benefit or lack there off. 

Doubt is an Energy sucker. Don't let it run the show Find that Faith and stuck with what resonates best with you! 

To be honest, I have always been an out-loud noter. Was it working for you? Why did you switch? I can't speak for mental noting.

Interesting. What kind of brick wall problems did you hit with it? It may help me consider my practice.

It can be very boring 

Yes, this is the method Daniel and Abre told me would move me along the POI. 1 hour sits were given as the optimum time time to sit.

+1 

SE is possible with noting aloud ALL the Way from DN and through EQ. Full Stop. Carre not what other here will or might say about this as my hairy ars knows better about what I just stated  

However, it might be of benefit to FORGET about SE as if it doesnt exist! Its a story for small kids believeing in Santa. No more SE for anyone. What was on offer is gone and sold! Empty shelves and no way to stock on SE for eons All you have left is to note 1 sensation per second for the duration of your sit. That is as close to SE you will ever come! 

Such attitude will be of benefit Im almost certain!

If such urge and desire towards SE comes up NOTE it as you note the itch ... if its there for many notings, then keep noting it until its gone gone gone and there is another noting. I would say 45 minutes is ok twice a day and then when you feel suffering taking over upping the sits to 2 or 3 times 60 minutes feels usually good. You decide on this one of course. 

Very many best wishes to you mate! 

"All you have left is to note 1 sensation per second for the duration of your sit. That is as close to SE you will ever come! "

What are you  talking about? Daniel has always talked about the noting has to be fast enough to move along POI and get SE, like 3-5 sensations per second. Wat do you mwan 1 sensation/sec is the close to SE you will ever come? 

Noting speed will increase and decrease on its own as Im sure you, me and many others have noticed in their practice. I ment at least 1 sensation a second as its very easy to do. And even if that is difficult then 1 sensation every 2 seconds will also do. (then at some stage noting speed will increase on its own).

And I was joking about that statement as in "dont drive yourself mad by always thinking about SE and practice instead" as if SE does not exist and all we do is noting THIS and THIS and THIS and THIS and ... 
Best wishes to you Sam (I hope you not sour at me)  

I could never be sour with you 

I've just got a wackey idea What about, each time a desire thought or urge to attain SE arises, note it by using label "Joke"   Each time it arises, notice it and label it with "Joke" Its ok if you laugh after this just note that too "Laughter" and keep looking if there is something else to be noted.

Ha!