Louis’ Practice Log

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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Hello everyone, I have decided to finally make a practice/life log because why not I guess haha. As some background I am 19 years old and I've been seriously meditating since February of this year. I've managed to do around 460 hours of meditation since then and I am all in for the noting aloud technique that Kenneth folk teaches, I also take a lot of inspiration from the mainman papa che!! He's a noting og for sure. I'm planning to do 2-3 45 minute sessions of freestyle noting aloud a day. I probably won't update this too often but I'll post on here when I feel something changes or I need help with anything. Thank you all so much! 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
04/11/20:

Managed to sit 3x45 minute sessions of noting aloud today. The first session did not go so well due to it being right after a university exam I had to do online and I could still feel the anxiety lingering within the body; this anxiety was mainly in the form of an unpleasant tightness within the lower abdomen which was noted. The lower back was stiff and the attention was very jerky and uneasy, it felt difficult to grasp onto sensations as they were all just slipping away and most were quite unpleasant. I noted these as much as I could using the notes "doubt", "uncertainty", "pain", "unpleasant", "tiredness" etc. Noting aloud stopped at one point towards the end of the sit as I felt the need to just let attention do its thing. Mind wandering was observed in this period but thats okay. The second and third sit went a lot better as noting was much more continuous and the attention was more sharp, there was still unpleasant sensations in the lower abdomen, stiffness in the neck and pain in the lower back but these were all noted and met with accpetance, various scenario spins occured and these were also noted. 1-2 sensations a second were being noted throughout the entireity of the sit. During the third sit I noticed the eye space become quite murky and diffuse as i was staring at a dot located on a wooden pannel in front of me. The third sit also included some inquiry into who was seeing and who was talking the notes. Thats about it for today. Time to go do some lecture notes haha. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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emoticon Im following this log! Nice one! or should I say nice 3 (sits) emoticon 

That murk developing in the image space is an interesting visual stuff to watch and also note stuff like "interests" and other mind states clustering around that "seeing" etc ... 

Best wishes to you!
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Thank you mate! I will definitely do this in my upcoming sits. I also forgot to mention towards the end of almost every sit I do I notice images arising within the eye space of the timer and this usually co-arises with the mental impression of the timer going off as well as an image of my hands moving position. This is just noticed and noted as "impatience" and "thinking". Funny to see how this all arises by itself almost every sit. I have also noticed that when noting becomes more slow and calm or "I" get lost in thought and then snap out of it there is a sort of judgement that arises which usually causes tightness in the chest. This is just noted as "judgement thought". 


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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Ah yes, that image of the timer we all come to know very well emoticon Well done on noting this! In my experience there could be some unpleasant numbness in the buttocks and this would cause the image of the timer and even an image of the number of minutes left and if the numbness or pain is very solid and unpleasant I would see an image of me getting up from the seat , as in stopping with meditation and this usually has a "jerky urge idea" in which in image space looks a bit like a fast jerky shadow.

The cause for timer related thinking would most of the time be ignited by some unpleasantness in the body or lack of pleasant states in the mind (like being in Hell Realm and just wanting anything else but THIS). 

No matter which it is, the noting aparatus sure takes care of this as it immediatelly offers newly arisen objects which usually dont have anything to do with the timer related stuff. If we keep to at least 1 sensation a second we are usually on the right track of being dissembeded relatively fast and quickly realise that this timer image is fading with each repetition of it until its just gone and other stuff is being of more interest and so on and so forth emoticon 



And yes! We get quickly lost in a spinning scenario. As in falling a sleep; we never can tell when we actually fell asleep emoticon Same with these scenario spins, they are like a mighty Black Hole which sucks you away from Awakeness faster than you can blink emoticon 
Its ok. This happens and Im sure this will be with us for a very long time no matter how "advanced" we are. What matter is THAT MOMENT of being AWAKE AGAIN emoticon you notice that you have been "lost" and now you "see" emoticon (amazing grace) We keep coming back and back again to the Awake moment that knows it self. That deserves Celebration and not being pissed off with one self which usually is the case with most of us Im sure emoticon (Im guilty as charged) But even if we do blame ourselves or feel as we are not good enough in this meditation business , we can still note these mind states, but in truth its far more pleasant to celebrate the return to Awakeness emoticon And even this can be noted. 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat a 45er of freestyle noting aloud:

There was quite a bit of resistance towards meditating as there usually is with the first sit of the day. The shed I meditate in which is in my back garden was freezing cold but I went full speed ahead regardless. Noting began around 1-2 sensations a second and I began raising the voice and the resistance slowly slipped away. I also noticed that as noting continued there was this uncertainty of whether noting was matter of fact, alongside this annoyance and doubt arose which was noted and accepted and noting just continued 1-2 sensations a second. Much wetness in the mouth, pressure in the lower belly, stiffness in the left side of the lower back and also a high pitch frequency in the left ear which persisted throughout the whole sit, with this being noticed an image of an ear usually arises as well. At one point I heard a neighbour's voice and immediately the volume of the noting voice decreased and the body contracted in which I noted "embarrassment". Towards the end of the sit the noting sped up. A very sharp and unpleasant itch under the left nostril arose towards the end which was very hard to accept. I noticed an image of the hand moving from the mudra position and wiping the nose but I resisted this movement and continued to observe the itch. The itch was very solid and unpleasant like a sharp needle. The nose began to run and I had to wipe my nose to stop the snot going in my mouth as that would be rather disgusting, but I held in there for as long as i could haha. Planning thoughts regarding what to write in this log also occured throughout most of the sit. Nothing fancy happened in the eye space besides the dot I stare at becoming more and more blurry. There was also wondering of "who is seeing" and "who is talking" during the sit. Boredom and impatience arose multiple times but I pushed through and managed to sit through the whole sit noting 1-2 sensations a second and I think this sped up to 3 or 4 a second for a short period of time. Hopefully I haven't forgotten anything lol. We will see how the rest of the sits unfold throughout the day. See ya!emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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"At one point I heard a neighbour's voice and immediately the volume of the noting voice decreased and the body contracted in which I noted "embarrassment". "

LOL emoticon this certainly happened in my sits too. I would be noting very loud and then would hear something outside thinking it's the neighbor which resulted in feeling embarrassed emoticon 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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yepp this happens from time to time and it's quite funny looking back on it. They would probably call the mental hospital if they heard me talking to myself saying "seeing", "seeing", "hearing", "thinking" emoticonemoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Managed to sit two more times after the first 45 minute sit. One 45 minute session and one quick 23 minute session (family member interrupted halfway and I just decided to end it there). Anyways the sits went reasonably well. Nothing unusual really occuring just the usual noting 1-2 sometimes 3-4 sensations a second using freestyle noting aloud. In the second sit I did some experimenting with Kenneth Folk's 3 speed transmission by doing some more self-inquiry and open awareness but soon felt sleepy so dove back into the stream of conciousness using freestyle noting aloud. I also used "there is" at the beggining of the notes whilst there was uncertainity on whether the notes were accurate or not, this helped to clear things up a lot and was dropped when things sped up. 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Freestyle noting aloud seems so uncool and definitely not what meditation looks like lol. All the cool kids are out here in Jhana and noting silently with their eyes closed but it just doesn't work for me! I wonder if this technique has the same efficiency of going through the nanas. This morning there is definitely doubt and resistance towards getting on that cushion as there are many online lectures I have to do today which is causing some anxiety. But who cares! Just gotta get in there and ride the waves. It's all just more griss for the mill as Kenneth puts it. 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat a 45er:

Decided to note inside where it's warm rather than in the freezing cold shedemoticon Noting started rather normal around 2 sensations a second. Throughout the sit I could notice vibrations occuring around the 3rd eye region. Sometimes it would be all bubbly and other times it would feel more like a solid mass. High pitch frequency was also noticed. Sometimes it would be on the left side and at other times it felt more as if it was hovering above the head. The image space was rather neutral, the kasina I was staring at would sometimes blurr and the vision would become more diffuse in which I noted "seeing" and "interest". At one point there was an urge to close the eyes so I went ahead and did so. Nothing fancy happened in the visual field except a few movements of bright blobs here or there(very subtle). Noting sped up at one point during the sit to around 3-4 sensations a second but soon slowed down again towards the end of the sit in which judgement thoughts arose as well as craving for stream entry which were all noted. Doubt regarding the effectiveness of the technique also arose which was noted. There was very little stiffness in the lower back nor the neck region. However sometimes there would be tightness in the lower abdomen which I comprehended as hunger as I did this sit without a meal in me. Boredom was also noticed as well as impatience once I began to experience image impressions of the timer as well as the mental impression of the timer setting in. I also noticed many planning thoughts regarding what to write on here. These triggered some spells of annoyance but they were all noticed and noted.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Just a tiny reminder; 

noting practice often works around unpleasant stuff so be open to note any arising in pleasant feels also. Maybe some warmth in hands or else in the body and don't shy away from it just because it's pleasant. Pleasant is also as important to see as neutral or unpleasant. 

To add; its good to scan the body every once in a while and check if there are tensions someplace and then relax those. In my experience my one hand would squeeze the other hand a bit when too much efforting. Or maybe just one finger would do that. Note and relax. No reason to sit with a body that's tensing due to too much effort. Always good to give space to the Whole Body Relaxing. This includes too much eye focus. Relax those eyes and let the focus get wider as you get into the sit which it narmturally will do unless we focus too much on the seeing object. 

This might not be relevant to you but felt like sharing anyway emoticon 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Thank you for the advice papa che! I definitely relate to this as sometimes I even shy away from pleasant feelings in meditation as the high achiever in me wants to keep pushing forward rather than having a bit of a pleasant rest on the beach. I do scan the body often and find some tensions especially in the legs and arms. Also when the eyes are closed I sometimes notice the face scrunching up and the eye balls straining a lot. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Yes, those strains and tensions. Treat them with relaxation and remember that it's of benefit to have a Relaxed Body. 

I think it has something to do with our lizard brain going all Fight or Flight and poor body gets all tense to be ready to leap emoticon 

Yes, if there is some pleasant sensation sure give it an investigation, go into it, see what mind states cluster around it, note "pleasant, pleasant" etc ... what ever is there. Just don't run away from it emoticon 


I think we do this running away with very unpleasant sensations or mind states too. It's all about Acceptance and letting it arise and pass and do its thing while noting it all unfold. 

ok, nuf of me babbling emoticon 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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babble all you want man! You've got very good advice to give to the world and I am forever gratefulemoticon noting does show very clearly how preferring one sensation over another causes dukkha. Acceptance all the way until we get our cake and get to eat it tooemoticon

I will try and do at least one more 45er tonight and I will update when I can. Best wishes to you my friend 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Managed to sit three 45 minute sessions today:

The sits were all done with eyes closed today rather than staring at a kasina spot on the wall which is what I usually do. I found that the sits were a lot more calm and relaxed, sensations were also much easier to penentrate than with eyes open. With the two final sits I experimented with dropping the voice and using open awareness towards the end which worked well but I won't do this all the time as I want to make sure I'm not dropping out of the stream of conciousness for any point during the sit. When open awareness wasn't being used sensations were being noted 2-3 times a second on average. There was no pain in the lower back, neck nor numbness in the bum. However there was some unpleasant tightness in the lower abdomen. I can't really remember much else about the sits but it's whatever. Onwards and forwards! 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat a 45er...first sit of the day:

Started with eyes open staring at a dot on a wooden plank and soon had the urge to close the eyes. Noting aloud went very slow today 1-2 sensations which is fine. The only unpleasant sensations were in the abdomen and slightly in the bum as it was numb on the chair yet there was little to no resistance to these sensations as there would of been a while ago. I had some urges to ramp up the noting speed but I just noted this as "striving" and continued to note 1-2 sensations a second. Makes me wonder whether I am in low EQ as I have recently not really been struggling in practice and there has been quite a lot of boredom. Then again I'm not too sure if I have even passed through the A&P as I haven't had any insane life changing experiences. My guess is that I may have had a more subtle A&P as I have had some experiences of regions of the body becoming completely penetrated and all there was left were many rapid vibrations. I also have had some periods of very intense agony and sadness for a while and now that it has somewhat calmed down makes me wonder whether this is EQ or not...who knows. I won't let myself ponder on this too much as I know that I have no control over what the nanas want to do. As Kenneth says I am the little kid in the back seat of the car with a plastic steering wheel. All I can do is watch thisness unfold moment to moment. 

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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sorry I didn't update last night, managed to sit one more 45er after the one I posted about.

So far today sat one 45er freestyle noting aloud:

Very calm sit, started with staring at a kasina (circular piece of wood with a whole in the middle). Noting began 1-2 sensations a second using "this is" at the beggining of each note. Using this changes the taste a lot compared with normal noting. Using this is highlights the mental movements towards striving as well as pushing away certain sensations and welcoming in other sensations. The session was a lot more grounded as there is only "this". At one point the kasina became a glowing 2D circle and the periphery was very blurry. When this occured I noted "interest" as Papa Che reccomended. Eyes closed at one point and noting continued as normal. Once it sped up the "this is" label was dropped. Overall a very calm, grounded sit. 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Managed to sit one more 45 minute session of freestyle noting aloud and also experimented with an hour silent sit of concentration/noting

The first 45er of freestyle noting aloud didn't go so well. I didn't get much sleep last night so I was super tired and the entire sit was dull and filled with boredom, used "this is" to try and soak into the sensations more but It didn't do the trick. At one point I stood up and continued the noting as I was so tired and this helped until the legs got tired. Noting was probably around 1-2 sensations a second. As for the silent hour sit...that was a shitshow (excuse my french). I started with counting the breath up to 10 and kept spacing out and restarting as I haven't done concentration practice in a long time (besides staring at a kasina during my noting aloud sessions). The noting didn't go well either, very sleepy and spaced out many times, this caused annoyance and at one point I wanted to just get up and go to bed as I thought what's the point, but recognised this as just resistance/aversion and kept noting until I spaced out into dream land again. I did notice that whilst I was awake I could note more sensations than compared to noting out loud and could also notice deeper vibrations if that makes any sense, I guess this is because the voice isn't in the way. Now I am in a bit of a dilemma. Do I continue with my freestyle noting aloud sessions of 45 minutes or start doing hour long silent sits of concentration/vipassana? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanksemoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Experiment and and see for yourself. It's your mind emoticon see how it behaves when sleepiness and dozing off kicks in, dullness, etc ... calm-abiding is also a good practice. Test and see. 
Claim your practice. At the end you will have your own personal twist on this, your own practice. That's the way to do it. Test different angels and make your own unik practice. It's ok to create a fusion practice. I did it with open eyes Kasina + freestyle noting aloud. Works good for me.  See what you will find most engaging. Test and see emoticon Claim your practice! It's yours! Whatever that might be. Mantra, Jhana, Noting, Just sitting, Kasina, ...
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Yeah you're right man! Thank you for the help as always emoticon

Sat 52 minutes (supposed to be an hour but got cut short because the delivery driver knocked on the door lol). Anyways I decided to just sit and dive straight into using mental labels with eyes closed rather than freestyle noting aloud and looking at a kasina. The start of the sit was calm and sensations were easily seen and noted. As the sit progressed though boredom and mind wandering kicked in as well as a side of striving and agitation. This was noted. The tounge in the mouth felt very unpleasant and I noticed it kept moving whenever I was trying to note as I am used to noting very clearly with the voice so I am not used to noting using mental labels and wasn't so sure if I was even doing it correctly at one point (noted this as doubt of course). Sometimes the attention shifted to the visual field and I noted "seeing" and "interest" as I could see some movements of light in the visuals but they were very subtle. Tried to use "this is" at the beggining of the notes at one point to try and make the mental labels more clear. This didn't really work but I am sure it's just due to swapping from out loud noting to mental noting. Sometimes I wasn't sure what was going on so I just noted "blank", "confusion", "uncertainty". At some points noted the breath for a while using "in"/"out" and "rising"/"falling" (of the abdomen). After the sit I am left with a feeling of agitation and tightness in the chest. The tounge still feels really unpleasant in the mouth but I am sure this will pass as does everything. 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat another hour session of noting with mental labels:

Not too much to say about this sit, it was definitely better than the sit earlier today as I didn't space out as much and was able to note more sensations. There was some unpleasant tightness in the right side of the lower back which was met with acceptance. Also some planning thoughts. Saw a few images of Dho members and sent my best wishes their way. There was still slight agitation regarding the labels themselves as they are much more subtle than compared to clearly noting out loud but I will soon get used to this. Also at one point the sensations of the eyes felt very much like "self", funny to see how the witness or the observer is just more clouds of impermanent sensations tooemoticon
Sam Gentile, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Louis! It's great to see in the time that I have been gone, that your practice and log has really taken off! And you are being advised by the Noting master Papa Che who taught me much of my practice. Good job!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sam Gentile:
Noting master Papa Che
Noting schmuck Papa Che, seems more like it emoticon 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Hi sam! Thank you for the positive feedback I really appreciate it. I am very familiar with your practice logs as well I used to read them all the time for pre-meditation motivationemoticon I wish you all the best! 

And yes, Papa Che is a master for sure even if he won't agree with usemoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat for an hour noting using mental labels:

Nothing fantastic nor terrific about this sit, just meh. Started with some minor anxiety associated with tightness in the chest which soon passed. High pitch frequency on both sides of the head, lots of swallowing, twitching in the legs and fingers occasionally, boredom and impatience occuring quite frequently, and also spacing out into scenario spins here and there. There was also craving for stream entry which was noted. I've noticed the mental labels are becoming clearer and each sensation is more comprehendable sit after sit. Nothing else much to say about this one, a decent sit. 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat for an hour using mental labels:

Not really sure what to say about this sit, few scenario spins, few pleasant vibrations in the back of head, hands and around the 3rd eye region, quite a lot of boredom and impatience. That's it really.
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat two 60 minute sessions of noting using mental labels today:

Nothing interesting today, just noting here and there then getting spaced out and absorbed into scenario spins for a short while, investigating sensations that feel like "me", some boredom, impatience, twitches, vibrations in the hands/back of head and third eye region. Also some agitation when the tongue moves sometimes when notes are being made, too used to the notes being clearly spoken aloud. Oh well, just gotta keep looking at this-ness emoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Managed to sit two hour long sessions of noting using mental labels today:

Two very difficult and boring sits. Had lots of doubt, aversion and impatience the whole time. There is still lots of agitation towards noting mentally as the labels just don't seem clear and it feels as if the sensations are not being clearly comprehended. A lot of the time there is spacing out and feeling confused to what is even going on. Definitely a sense of overwhelm. I think it's time I try out freestyle noting aloud again as the clarity just isn't there when it comes to mentally noting. Also with noting aloud there is barely any spacing out. I think the reason for me trying noting silently is because that's just what everyone else does and I guess I am filled with doubt as whether noting aloud will take me through the nanas as effectively. I will start again with noting aloud tomorrow and report back
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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" I think the reason for me trying noting silently is because that's just what everyone else does" 

emoticon Ha! emoticon ain't that the truth for the most of us! emoticon 
I guess we all have that normative that meditation is to be ; silent , closed eyes, sitting cross legged, highly absorbed, blissed out, sitting all day long in a cave, have shaved head and ochre robes and all this will make my farts smell of Jasmin emoticon 

Yes, good idea! See for yourself and report back. Claim your own practice whatever that might be. Your practice is your raft floating over the vast ocean of Samsara. It's good if you don't constantly have doubt in that raft and instead be glad you have one at all. How many out there in the world keep drowning in the vastness of the Samsara Ocean and no raft at all to hold on to? Rejoice emoticon you do have a raft. Now sail it and watch everything even that doubt. 

Best wishes! 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat a 45er freestyle noting aloud with eyes closed:

What a relief! I'm back baby! Lots of impatience, boredom, numbness in the bum and all kinds of other unpleasant sensations, but they were finally all noted perfectly and were clearly comprehended and accepted. God I missed noting aloud. Feels so good just to note 1-3 sensations a second for the entire sit without many laps in mindfulness, even the doubt I had about "will this technique get me to stream entry?!?!" was seen as just a completely empty impermanent sensation arising and passing all by itself with no one there to claim it as theirs. I could clearly see how the mind tries to grasp at one sensation and push another sensation away which causes suffering, all was accepted and were put on equal footing, even the pleasant bubbles of vibrations at the back of the head. Thank god I got out of that nice blissful silent meditation, that isn't for "me"! Thank you for your encouragement papa che I very much appreciate it emoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Sat a 45er in freestyle noting aloud:

ahhhh...definitely got my ass kicked during this sit, the sweet and sour nature of this thing never ceases to surprise me. Anyways, started as normal just noting 1-2 sensations a second and then a sheet of dukkha covered me completely, so much sadness, boredom, lack of motivation, tiredness, and some extremely agonising itches that were somehow sat through. So much resistance even the loud noting didn't help just had to sit there in silence and ended up spacing out. Stood up and continued noting at one point which helped somewhat until all the itching and pain came back to which I sat back down and fell asleep again. Even looked at the timer at one point! I mean Jheeeez what a tragedy. Just proud I managed to sit through that much suffering. Oh well. Practice is what practice does, just gotta continue to look at thisness unfolding. I will try again later emoticon
agnostic, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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That's a great sit Louis! Well done! 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Thank youemoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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"boredom, lack of motivation,"

I went back to your first intro post and could not see the intention behind you practicing. Why do you practice? Please take time to ponder this as it's not me who needs this. It's something that will power up your practice. 

Too much attention and too little intention can lead to boredom and lack of motivation as you describe. 

Why am I doing this practice? 

In Buddha's case it was him seeing suffering/struggle in everything and also seeing the truth of old age, sickness and death. He was inspired by this to dig into the mind and find out for himself. 

Then at some stage the dude got sick and tired of attainments and states he has mastered as still he would feel suffering being there so again he decided to sit under the tree and not get up until he awakens. 

Tgere is strong intention there and of course through practice there is also attention (paying). 

In 2008 I had this strong intention to find a way to reduce suffering and stress I've suffered from. This seeking led me to meditation. This was the drive during my practice. Sure it showed me that Jhanas are fragile and remove suffering while they last but not during off cushion life. 

Again last year I was sick and tired of being stuck in the dark night and I had a strong intention to go back to that one and only thing I can do and that is note This after This after This after This ... for me there was nothing else as there left but to watch and note This sensory experience unfolding. 

That was last year. emoticon Right now I'm again in a state that has not much intention but attention is good and plenty which again leads to boredom and lack of motivation or even slight confusion and wonder "what now?"  I'm now looking for that Intention. What is my intention? I'm listening, I'm looking, I'm feeling ...? Maybe it will pop out at some stage. Still I can't feel intention really being there at this time in my life hence practice is not really motivating as much. 

Try asking this question and no reason to rush into answering it. emoticon 

I second agnostic and think it was a good practice even if it felt unpleasant (as in not pleasant nor neutral). 

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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Thank you for your response Papa Che. My intention for meditating is to simply awaken. I don't care about attaining jhanas and these blissful impermanent absorption states, I just want the sense of duality to cease at last as I can see how it has caused me suffering for my entire life. I've always been one to not really agree with those who aim for amazing jobs, nice houses, nice cars, hot girls and lots of money as a source of happiness because for some reason I have always felt that there is more to this life than these things. Since discovering meditation this year and really going hard at it, I can see how things have shifted for the better since I have began meditating, but there still feels as if there is some existential longing for something. I guess it's true when they say "better not to start, but if you do, better to finish". For some reason I beleive this awakening thing will make me feel more happy and free in the long run. I guess we'll have to find outemoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2129 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Thanks for sharing mate emoticon I think Chris Marti had the same/similar intention concerning the non-duality at some stage in his practice. Its a good driving intention for sure. We all start with an idea what awakening might be and how we might feel etc and this is our drive. Might turn to be somthing entirely different but as long it fuels THE PRACTICE it matters little emoticon 

As we cant really see each other in real life while we sit and we only have these written words I would like to ask you one more thing; 
Do you pay attention to body tensions while noting? In my expereince body parts can start clenching when one is really into noting. It can be anywhere, in the hands, fingers, neck, legs, arms, eyes ... etc. Its good to every now and then do a scan of the body and if such body parts are sensed, then relax them again. 

Also, in case I have been the cause of you feeling that way towards Jhana absorbtions then please reconsider emoticon Jhanas can be very healing and can introduce tranquility , which granted, does not last forever but still can be of benefit. One can certainly awaken to the truth of the Jhana states, note that they have pleasant parts and unpleasant and neutral and they dont last/impermanent. All experience can be seen for what they are. I never invited Jhana absorption into my life; they just came about back in the past and do so now also Aversion towards them is also important to Note! Its yet another experience. 

If at all possible dont forget to be a young lad and live your life with other folks while still doing meditation. It doesnt have to be just meditation. This journey can take time (decades even) so try not to let those twenties just pass you by emoticon Nothign wrong with girls and parties and fellowships and chasing other hobbies emoticon 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Yes I do pay attention to any tensions that arise and try and relax them, usually they occur in the posture as I am stretching up high or maybe in the hands and shoulders which sometimes just need to drop. With eyes closed it's often that the face is scrunched up and I don't even notice it until I scan the body emoticon I will try my best to just live my life outside of meditation and be easy on myself. Thank you again for your kind words 
agnostic, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2020 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I agree with Papa Che about living your life. Not saying you should chase those things, but aversion to them is also a form of clinging ...

You say you want duality to cease, but awakening is realizing that it was never really happening and everything is fine just the way it is. On some level we already know this, which could explain your lack of motivation. Now if only I could remember this myself! emoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
It is definitely the case that we think awakening is something far out in the ocean that we need to endlessly search for. Like there is some reality out there that we are striving to maybe get a VIP ticket to one day...but it's always been right here. People say there is an "ego" to destroy but I think that's all bullshit. There was never anyone here to be enlightened. 
agnostic, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2020 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Sounds like you get the awakening joke emoticon The rest of the path as far as I can see is relaxing conditioning.

I see the ego as just shorthand for the aggregates, which are not something that could be destroyed (or enlightened).
agnostic, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2020 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Thinking about it a bit more, your lack of motivation could simply be aversion. What I've noticed is that it's easier to detect aversion in "real life" rather than on the cushion. In meditation aversion can show up as a sort of generalized sense of dissatisfaction and yuckiness, whereas in real life it's a more definite case of "I don't like this or that". I would start with your aversion to the material stuff you mentioned. If meditation is partly a way of escaping that then it's going to follow you. You're going to need some material basis to get through life whatever you end up doing, even if you become a monk. I speak as someone who gave away all their possessions and money aged 22, fantasized about running away to the mountains to get enlightened, went full rat race from 27-45, got depressed, started meditating again and now am somewhere in the middle ... could have saved myself and everyone else a lot of bother! emoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you for your advice Agnostic I really appreciate it emoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
18/11/20: Sat 3x45 minute sessions of freestlye noting aloud closed eyes.

Nothing interesting today, some boredom, numbness in the bum, scenario spins here or there. I also noticed that thoughts were a lot less noticeable and physical sensations were more dominant throughout the sits. Noting wasn't fast in any of the sits, just meh. Can't remember any specific details really as I am so tired...time to snoozeemoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
cheeky update:

I am still practicing every day but I just haven't felt the urge to log recently. I am going to start implementing some pure concentration practice into the start of my sits, just simple breath counting in 1 and out 2 and so on until i feel reasonably concentrated, then I will do the rest of the sit in freestyle noting aloud with eyes closed. With this addition of concentration at the start I am going to be increasing the sits to one hour rather than 45 minutes. So for now I wont be logging as much but i will pop in now and then. Again thank you all for your support


emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Good man! Best wishes! emoticon 
Sam Gentile, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 1345 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Louis Joel:
cheeky update:

I am still practicing every day but I just haven't felt the urge to log recently. I am going to start implementing some pure concentration practice into the start of my sits, just simple breath counting in 1 and out 2 and so on until i feel reasonably concentrated, then I will do the rest of the sit in freestyle noting aloud with eyes closed. With this addition of concentration at the start I am going to be increasing the sits to one hour rather than 45 minutes. So for now I wont be logging as much but i will pop in now and then. Again thank you all for your support


emoticon
Louis,

This is exactly what I did at my height before I got sick. I would do some pure concentration luke counting breaths and then do the rest of the session i freestyle noting. I also increased my time to one hour sessions. I think this is a good way to go. You will always have my support, May you practice well.
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Chi chi chaloupa, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 15 Join Date: 7/16/20 Recent Posts
Interesting read. Louis keep up the hard work, seems to be paying off.

I have a couple questions:

1) when you say that you are noting 2-3 sensations every second.... are you noting everyone of them out loud. That seems like a lot talking? 

2) What is insight meditation?

3) What is duality vs nonduality?

I know these are very basic/beginer questions, just looking for some help on the journey. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2129 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
"when you say that you are noting 2-3 sensations every second.... are you noting everyone of them out loud. That seems like a lot talking?  "

emoticon you think emoticon https://youtu.be/BXlTDprzkVc
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Sat for two hours today. Each session lasted an hour and I started with 15 minutes of concentration and then freestlye noting aloud. Recently I have been paying close attention to the anatta characterisitc. Each time a phenomenom is noted aloud the mind often labels it "not self" which Is actually quite effective at dispelling the illusion of agency. No meditator in here just sensations arising and passing by themselves. Even the intention to note an object is arising by itself emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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I think Ingram said something like "spend 99% of time plain noting 1-10 matter of fact sensations a second and only 1% on contemplating". I think he might be right emoticon When meditating, then only meditating. Once of cushion then contemplating what happened. If insight shamcks you during the sit fine but "looking for 3C's" is just to be noted as "intention/desire/looking" and move on to the next sensation. 

If you catch yourself looking for stuff too much then try and return to only noting body sensations for the duration of the sit. 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Yes you're definitely correct! But I think I gave the wrong idea from what I wrote. I'm not really going out of my way to see any of the characteristics but it's just recently that the anatta in everything is much more visible. So sometimes for example if I note out loud "sadness" the mind will note it silently as "not self" and it's funny to see how this has just started happening out of nowhere really. It definitely helps objectifying it all and disembedding. I will be sure to not let myself contemplate during the sit emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2129 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Oh I see emoticon my bad. Indeed there will be these insights into stuff we observe. As long we are not forcing those conclusions just because someone said "you must see the 3 C's in everything, only then you are doing it right" emoticon Mind gets to learn about 3C's and dependent origination on its own through noting/noticing practice. Our job as a meditator is just to do the practice. But you already know all this emoticon 
Keep up the good work! 
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Louis Joel, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you papa che I really appreciate your support! Time to sit my arse on that cushion and note like a mad man! 

best of wishes to you my friend emoticon
Sam Gentile, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 1345 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Louis Joel:
Thank you papa che I really appreciate your support! Time to sit my arse on that cushion and note like a mad man! 

best of wishes to you my friend emoticon

You are already getting it from Master Che emoticon but I also think you are kicking ass right now!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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No master in here last time I checked emoticon 

Only a friend showing support, for better or worse. 
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Jade Lee, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 15 Join Date: 7/16/20 Recent Posts
Ive been following this thread for a couple of days now. I tried doing the noting technique like papa che showed me in that youtube clip. It was very difficult. I felt like I was going white water rafting without a raft... The thoughts/sensations just kept coming. Is the goal to note every little sensation and thought or is it try and find the peace in between the thoughts, the quiet moments. There were moments when I felt and thought nothing and felt like I was at peace then, then a thought would come up and id be back in the water flying around with no control. Also, at times i felt like i was searching for thoughts and sensations, im assuming i should let them come naturally. Louis I give you credit for starting this up at a young age and being able to sit for 45 minutes. I set a timer for 10 minutes and felt like it was an hour. 
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you for following my log Jade emoticon When you are noting just grab anything that seems most present in your awareness. If you can hear a bird for example say "hearing" and then there may be "comprahending" as you are knowing its a bird, and there could also be an image impression in the mind in which you would say "thinking" or "image". if you are not sure what to say just say "uncertainty". If you feel like you are searching for something to note then just say "searching". At first it is very difficult to be able to sit for so long but eventually you just get used to it and the noting does itself without any of your control. Keep at it and I am sure you will be there in no time. 
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Quick update:

I've still been sitting every day for around 1.5-2 hours. I experimented for the last few days with silent noting and I did have some good sits but it just isn't what I think is best for me. From now on I will just do freestyle noting aloud for 45 minutes and really intend to note for that entire duration, not missing a second without noting something popping in and out of awareness so that I can really see how this so called "me" is being fabricated moment by moment. I wish you all the best in your practice and in the rest of your lives emoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Some off cushion info as well:

For a while now everything has been feeling very dark and sad. I guess it is most likely due to this quarantine crisis and everything feeling very lonely. My girlfriend and I recently broke up after dating for two years which is very unfortunate but it's okay and I wish her the best in life. University is stressing me out quite a lot as well as all the work is being done online from home and the thought of exams in january fills me with lots of stress and anxiety, honestly I do not really have an interest for university and the degree I am taking but I don't really have anything else in mind that I can go and do. The feeling of wanting to renounce from the world and go and sit in a cave and just meditate is very tempting during these times but I know that's not an option. All I can do is try to take things one day at a time and keep practice going consistently. I really do appreciate all the support from you guys. Meditating can feel like a very lonely journey but having some dharma buddies really does help. Thank you.
agnostic, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2020 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Hey Louis, sorry to hear about the stress and loneliness. Good to see you're still practicing in difficult times - that's where the real gold is you know. Going through university and out into the world is definitely one of life's major transitions and it's stressful for everyone, whether they show it or not. During such times it's fine to take practice a little easier and use it to destress and feel a bit better, if you can. No need to make any drastic changes, with mindfulness a lot of this stuff will just work itself out. It's also pretty normal for interest in one's subject to wane halfway through! All the best, George 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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I second what agnostic is saying. You are a champ emoticon You seem to be taking breakup really well. Yes it will suck at times when alone but if you notice this on a day to day bases I'm sure it will not feel like that all the time. 

Also, your room IS your Cave emoticon Modern day Cave but still that's where we go to Yogi-away emoticon


Best wishes!  
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you papa che and agnostic for your kind words, they really do mean a lot to me emoticon 

something that has come to mind recently on multiple occasions (this has come up before) is the creepiness of no agency. It's so obvious to me now that there is no solid "me" here and it's quite the freeing realisation. However for some reason when I think of other people who I know also must have no agency it seems incredibly creepy to me, like everyone is just zombies or robots lol. Obviously I am still pre-path so potentially it is just the case of intellectualising and once you hit arahatship and your agency fully vanishes for good then maybe it won't seem so creepy. It's probably creepy to me because there is still a sense of duality there. Hmm who knows, what's your guys' opinion on this?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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No reason to scare yourself with such intelectualising. It seems to me that ALL of being a human person will Always be there until we die. So it's not about becoming a zombie or robot. ALL is same except the Knowing of ALL that arises is far clearer and hence less and less clinging to arisen and/or passed away sensations. There is more dispassion for experience, more compassion for all and yourself and simply speaking more naturally occurring awakeness in the conscious daily lifeing. 

I believe that Arahats still have smelly farts and feet emoticon and they go for massage when stiff in the body, they get sick and take painkillers, they take anesthesia when repairing teeth, and so on. 
Loosing agency is more of getting out of the way to all the naturally occuring lifeing which includes clearly stuff arising and passing constantly. 

Or something like that. However practice is the way to go about it. Certain realizations do stem from practice. 

Or something like that emoticon 
agnostic, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2020 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
It was the other way round for me - seeing other people as robots didn't bother me, but realizing there was nobody at home on this end freaked me out. The difference could be due to narcissism - being more concerned with my own existence than that of others.

I think the degree to which one intellectualizes anatta probably depends on personality as well. My early insights into anatta were perceptual - looking at stuff and realizing I couldn't tell if I was watching it or it was watching me. But the big breakthrough came intellectually after reading Tony Parson's Open Secret. I wouldn't recommend that route unless necessary as it caused some terrifying depersonalization experiences. It seems that people who experience anatta on a more perceptual or energetic level have a smoother ride because it's better integrated. But that's just a guess based on a very small sample size.

It's probably a mistake to think that agency vanishes for good. Agency can be pretty useful at times! It seems that the end game is for agency to be fully known as just another phenomenon - impermanent, not self and unsatisfactory. An analogy would be that you can know how to drive a car without believing that being a driver is an essential part of who you are. But I wouldn't know, because I'm not there yet.emoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you both of you for your great responses, god knows what I would do without you lot emoticon

quick update on how practice is going:

so far noting has been rather slow and boring, I speculate whether this is equanimity or not but I doubt it as there is still some form of unpleasant-ness to the whole thing, primarily in the form of lower abdomen pressure. God knows, I'm still noting for the entirety of the sit but it's a lot slower, 1 sensation a second mostly. Oh well we will see if this resolves itself. As of today I have decided to implement 30 minutes of concentration practice which will be separated from noting, just to help build concentration and get a rest from the jarring dry vipassana. Today I sat one 45 minute session of noting out loud, a 30 minute concentration session, and another 45er noting which was cut short to 31 minutes because my mum came home with shopping and I had to help out. For some reason I am getting a lot of craving to sit a lot more than I am, yet when I can't I feel a lot of guilt. Oh well just more sensations. 
Sam Gentile, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 1345 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Louis Joel:
Thank you both of you for your great responses, god knows what I would do without you lot emoticon

quick update on how practice is going:

so far noting has been rather slow and boring, I speculate whether this is equanimity or not but I doubt it as there is still some form of unpleasant-ness to the whole thing, primarily in the form of lower abdomen pressure. God knows, I'm still noting for the entirety of the sit but it's a lot slower, 1 sensation a second mostly. Oh well we will see if this resolves itself. As of today I have decided to implement 30 minutes of concentration practice which will be separated from noting, just to help build concentration and get a rest from the jarring dry vipassana. Today I sat one 45 minute session of noting out loud, a 30 minute concentration session, and another 45er noting which was cut short to 31 minutes because my mum came home with shopping and I had to help out. For some reason I am getting a lot of craving to sit a lot more than I am, yet when I can't I feel a lot of guilt. Oh well just more sensations. 
I  have gone through many periods where my noting has been slow and boring, barly 1 x/sec. My teacher had me just note unpleasent if there was unpleasentness there and boredom. Mine was also tied lower abdominal pressure. I think it will resolve itself but you may want to try a little coffee before the noting practice for a while to keep yourself stimulated. The addition of concentration practice is a goood one, just look out for sleepines, sloth and topor especially if there is a boredom in the noting practice. HTH. 
agnostic, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2020 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
It's really important to note AND INVESTIGATE the feelings of slow, boring and unpleasant. They are a reflection of the kind of generalized aversion to experience which is responsible for 90% of our dissatisfaction in life. I suspect from the way you say 'Oh well we will see if this resolves itself' that you are averse to these aversive experiences and consider them to be a problem which you hope will go away? That's a pretty normal reaction, but the only way they go away is by accepting them for what they are - simply aversive experiences - without judging them. Even better is to investigate the feelings of judgement and resistance - that will take your practice to a new level. 
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Sat for two hours today: 2x45 minute noting aloud sessions and 1x30 minute concentration practice 

The noting sits actually went a lot better today, I took on board agnostic and sam's advice and decided that I needed to pay closer attention to more fine detailed sensations that are easily missed such as wandering/spacing out, boredom, anticipation, etc. The sits were very energised. However the second sit did have a bit more wandering and boredom to it as it was done at around 10pm. Also had a lot of sadness come up due to memories of my ex that were bubbling up, stayed equanimous with this and just noted "dripping" as I could feel tears down my cheek. Overall I feel like today has been a lot better than compared to the previous days. Onwards and forwards. 
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Jade Lee, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 15 Join Date: 7/16/20 Recent Posts
Louis, your practice log has changed the way I meditate and view meditation. I have been meditating for 5 years using apps and doing the same thing over and over, I knew there had to be more. So I started to read Dans book and stumbled upon this website. Your log was the first one that I checked out and I have stayed with it to see the updates. I started doing noting meditation last week or so and its helped me so much, I feel refreshed and excited to meditate again. Keep up the good work, looking forward to the next update.  
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you so much Jade, It means a lot to me that my logs have been of good use to you even though I still consider myself very much a noobemoticon I am glad that practice has been going well for you! Keep up the good work and sit with utter acceptance of whatever stares you in the eye, as papa che says, practice is what practice does haha emoticon. Best of wishses to you.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2129 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
"even though I still consider myself very much a noob"

That will never change mate emoticon trust me! However it does mean you are a sane person and open to anything to happen. That is a very fine "spot" to be in! Humbleness. We are all noob's no matter where we think we might be! We might at times fall into madness of claiming to have attained something and go on and on about it just to fall back to the ground hard and realise again that "Im just a noob"
I would like to say that Im the worst of all dhamma noob's but Tim of the Cross is by far the worse as there is no hope for that lad emoticon emoticon 
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
I know I haven't updated this log recently, just haven't felt like I've needed too. However in the last few days I realised something that was I thought was so obvious to me, but was clearly getting under the radar up until now. I stumbled across a new youtuber called Sam Roff, he makes videos about the pragmatic dharma movement, and in one of his videos he was talking about aversion and clinging, I thought to myself haha I know all this no need to worry, but I soon realised that this is the exact thing that has been holding my practice back for so long. Acceptance is what I have been missing, yeah I've been realising aversion here or there and accepting things but for the longest time there has been this subtle wave of aversion that has been overlooked. I'm still freestyle noting aloud every day, sometimes I'm really tired, sometimes there's lots of frustration, but finally it feels as if that those sensations are perfect, any aversion is clearly seen and I can just go through every sit without any regrets. 
Sam Gentile, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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I'm going to have to look him up. Good job!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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emoticon Nice! Acceptance is a word we all know so well and yet we kind of dont really appreciate it fully emoticon That word was the very thing I took from Ingram last year when I decied to plow through my thick carpet of suffering or die trying emoticon That and "Do NOT Cling to Equanimity once out of DN" as it can feel so nice after a hammering Re-Obs.

My post-it list was simple;

1. Note aloud 1-10 (likely 1-5) matter of fact sensations without laps for the entire duration of the sit (45-60 minutes)
2. Use the voice to navigate rough patches (very loud if much resistance or aversion, or calm if too much agitated, or if clarity was not there use word "There is ...", or if uncertainty use word "certain" when actually certain about the noted object.
3. Acceptance of it ALL (like ALL-ALL however bad it was)
4. DO NOT CLING TO EQ ONCE OUT OF DN !!! (just keep noting aloud calm and gently) emoticon 
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you so much Papa Che I will definitely keep this in mind. For some reason I still have strong doubts about noting aloud compared to all those cool silent notersemoticon noting aloud is so uncool emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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By all means use the silent noting. See how it compares to noting aloud. Make up your own mind about both of them emoticon There must be a good reason behind most folks  noting silently or even just noticing. I might be one of the weirdos emoticon 

I was always faithful to any practice I did. I was not changing practice every so often. If I'm to do it I really put my heart into it 100% or not at all. Any practice deserves at least 6 months to validate its benefit or lack there off. 

Doubt is an Energy sucker. Don't let it run the show emoticon Find that Faith and stuck with what resonates best with you! 
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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So far I've been practicing for roughly 2 hours a day, I count my breathes to 100 and back down to 0 and then continue the rest of the sit with (silent) noting. So far I have been really struggling with the silent noting, getting caught up in mind states and all sorts and for some reason lots of saliva is building up in my mouth causing me to swallow a lot. There's definitely been lots of frustration as I feel as if I have been doing it completely wrong and cant get the grip of it. But I really want to be a good mental noter, guess I will just stick with it and see if i can improve. Any adivce anyone? I could do with some help hahaemoticon
Sam Gentile, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Louis Joel:
So far I've been practicing for roughly 2 hours a day, I count my breathes to 100 and back down to 0 and then continue the rest of the sit with (silent) noting. So far I have been really struggling with the silent noting, getting caught up in mind states and all sorts and for some reason lots of saliva is building up in my mouth causing me to swallow a lot. There's definitely been lots of frustration as I feel as if I have been doing it completely wrong and cant get the grip of it. But I really want to be a good mental noter, guess I will just stick with it and see if i can improve. Any adivce anyone? I could do with some help hahaemoticon

To be honest, I have always been an out-loud noter. Was it working for you? Why did you switch? I can't speak for mental noting.
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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yeah it did work for me but I felt like i was hitting a bit of a brick wall with it, just wanted to switch things up. 
Sam Gentile, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Louis Joel:
yeah it did work for me but I felt like i was hitting a bit of a brick wall with it, just wanted to switch things up. 
Interesting. What kind of brick wall problems did you hit with it? It may help me consider my practice.
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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Well I love noting aloud, It just became very boring and extremely fatiguing. Not too sure I may go back to noting aloud, just want to see if maybe I can make more progress using the silent method. We will see!
Sam Gentile, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

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It can be very boring emoticon
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
To be honest with you, I just need to slap myself round the face and sit my arse back on the cushion and do noting aloud. I think the reason I keep trying to swap over to silent noting is because for some reason I think that noting aloud won't be as effective for attaining stream entry. God knows why I think that but I just do, anyways silent noting isn't working I just get spaced out and don't even know what I'm looking at. I think from now on I'm just gonna do hour long sits and note my ass off the entire time, if I feel very concentrated then maybe I'll try and swap to silent noting like swapping gears but I will probably just try and stay with the noting aloud. 
Sam Gentile, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 1345 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Louis Joel:
To be honest with you, I just need to slap myself round the face and sit my arse back on the cushion and do noting aloud. I think the reason I keep trying to swap over to silent noting is because for some reason I think that noting aloud won't be as effective for attaining stream entry. God knows why I think that but I just do, anyways silent noting isn't working I just get spaced out and don't even know what I'm looking at. I think from now on I'm just gonna do hour long sits and note my ass off the entire time, if I feel very concentrated then maybe I'll try and swap to silent noting like swapping gears but I will probably just try and stay with the noting aloud. 

Yes, this is the method Daniel and Abre told me would move me along the POI. 1 hour sits were given as the optimum time time to sit.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2129 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Sam Gentile:
Louis Joel:
To be honest with you, I just need to slap myself round the face and sit my arse back on the cushion and do noting aloud. I think the reason I keep trying to swap over to silent noting is because for some reason I think that noting aloud won't be as effective for attaining stream entry. God knows why I think that but I just do, anyways silent noting isn't working I just get spaced out and don't even know what I'm looking at. I think from now on I'm just gonna do hour long sits and note my ass off the entire time, if I feel very concentrated then maybe I'll try and swap to silent noting like swapping gears but I will probably just try and stay with the noting aloud. 

Yes, this is the method Daniel and Abre told me would move me along the POI. 1 hour sits were given as the optimum time time to sit.


+1 

SE is possible with noting aloud ALL the Way from DN and through EQ. Full Stop. emoticon Carre not what other here will or might say about this as my hairy ars knows better about what I just stated emoticon 

However, it might be of benefit to FORGET about SE as if it doesnt exist! Its a story for small kids believeing in Santa. No more SE for anyone. What was on offer is gone and sold! Empty shelves and no way to stock on SE for eons emoticon All you have left is to note 1 sensation per second for the duration of your sit. That is as close to SE you will ever come! 

Such attitude will be of benefit Im almost certain!

If such urge and desire towards SE comes up NOTE it as you note the itch ... if its there for many notings, then keep noting it until its gone gone gone and there is another noting. I would say 45 minutes is ok twice a day and then when you feel suffering taking over upping the sits to 2 or 3 times 60 minutes feels usually good. You decide on this one of course. 

Very many best wishes to you mate! 
Sam Gentile, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 1345 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
"All you have left is to note 1 sensation per second for the duration of your sit. That is as close to SE you will ever come! "

What are you  talking about? Daniel has always talked about the noting has to be fast enough to move along POI and get SE, like 3-5 sensations per second. Wat do you mwan 1 sensation/sec is the close to SE you will ever come? 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2129 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
emoticon Noting speed will increase and decrease on its own as Im sure you, me and many others have noticed in their practice. I ment at least 1 sensation a second as its very easy to do. And even if that is difficult then 1 sensation every 2 seconds will also do. (then at some stage noting speed will increase on its own).

And I was joking about that statement as in "dont drive yourself mad by always thinking about SE and practice instead" as if SE does not exist and all we do is noting THIS and THIS and THIS and THIS and ... 
Best wishes to you Sam (I hope you not sour at me) emoticon 
Sam Gentile, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 1345 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
I could never be sour with you emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2129 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 2129 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
emoticon emoticon I've just got a wackey idea emoticon What about, each time a desire thought or urge to attain SE arises, note it by using label "Joke" emoticon  Each time it arises, notice it and label it with "Joke" emoticon Its ok if you laugh after this just note that too "Laughter" emoticon and keep looking if there is something else to be noted.

emoticon Ha! 
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Louis Joel, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 133 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you for the words of encouragement Sam and Papa Che! Today I sat for two hours. Both sits I just did pure freestyle noting aloud (whispering) for both sits. I find that with whispering the concentration goes up as attention isn't as involved with the voice. For the first sit I did have to pause at around the 30 minute mark as I thought the delivery man was knocking at the door but nope, so just went back upstairs and finished the last half an hour lol. The two sits went pretty well emoticon
Sam Gentile, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Louis’ Practice Log

Posts: 1345 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko:
" I think the reason for me trying noting silently is because that's just what everyone else does" 

emoticon Ha! emoticon ain't that the truth for the most of us! emoticon 
I guess we all have that normative that meditation is to be ; silent , closed eyes, sitting cross legged, highly absorbed, blissed out, sitting all day long in a cave, have shaved head and ochre robes and all this will make my farts smell of Jasmin emoticon 

Yes, good idea! See for yourself and report back. Claim your own practice whatever that might be. Your practice is your raft floating over the vast ocean of Samsara. It's good if you don't constantly have doubt in that raft and instead be glad you have one at all. How many out there in the world keep drowning in the vastness of the Samsara Ocean and no raft at all to hold on to? Rejoice emoticon you do have a raft. Now sail it and watch everything even that doubt. 

Best wishes! 

I also note At Loud. Really helps with the mindfulness

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