Close to 3rd jhana? - Discussion
Hi,
I'm trying to find out if I have experienced the 3rd samatha jhana or not.
I am pretty sure I have 2nd jhana -- my attention definitely widens out from being focused on my primary kasina (that which I began the sit with), and I can experience "absorption" upon any object that I lay my eyes on (my attention is less controlled as it "navigates" this more "spacious" jhana, and it gently moves from one object to another, experiencing each one with clarity). Also, in my specific case, contemplative (very effortless) thoughts begin to arise when I get absorbed in an object -- these thoughts may or may not have to do with the object itself. Sometimes my mind "rests" on the object as thoughts emerge about my thought and emotional patterns themselves.
I'd say in the 1st jhana the thoughts that arise while I'm focused on the kasina (a flame) are thoughts about the nature of the kasina, or thoughts about the effort that's being put into not straying from the kasina. In the 2nd jhana, it's all "fair game" -- there's no internal reaction to the thoughts that occur -- it's as though the mind has been left alone to produce whatever thoughts it may (while the attention is firmly grounded on the jhana/whatever the kasina may be). Overall, it's a very relaxing and pleasant experience.
Of course, the thoughts aren't entirely random -- and neither am I going into "flights of fancy." Usually I'll contemplate the "solidity" of an object, or some other aspect of it. Or I may closely examine a past traumatic experience with no ego-investment in it (as though a film were being watched to form an objective understanding of it).
I am taking the above to be 2nd jhana -- does it sound like it?
I have a little doubt because in MCTB, not much is said about the thoughts that may occur during Concentration Practice aside from how our "stuff" is supposed to come bubbling up as we engage in the practice. Also, healing psychological insights are supposed to arrive through Concentration Practice -- to me it seems like they start occurring deep into the 2nd jhana/once one gets into the 3rd jhana (more on which below).
That said, I've been reaching a point lately where I can make the "width" of the jhana my object. My attention withdraws a little from the specific objects in the (2nd) jhana, and attends more to the spaciousness of the jhana itself. Also, this is probably a very personal occurrence, and will not help anyone to identify the jhana, but after staying in (what I consider to be) the 2nd jhana for a while, and after I've made "width" my object, certain very difficult emotions I continue to harbor -- "repressed" to a certain extent -- seem to be met with a very loving, accepting and I guess "compassionate" response arising as though out of the jhanic state itself. It's as though a very difficult emotional knot gets unraveled while in that state (and then further progress may occur -- I think).
Does this make sense?
Since the "attending to space itself" and "positive response/'answer' to a generally tortuous cluster of feelings" factors appear so different than everything leading up to them (while in the 2nd jhana), I'm wondering if I'm touching upon the 3rd jhana.
Sorry if the way I'm describing my experiences have so much to do with thoughts and feelings -- I'm only trying to recount experiences during Concentration Practice as I actually experienced them. To the best of my knowledge, I've stuck as closely as possible (maybe even a bit obsessively!) to the instructions laid out in MCTB for Training in Concentration.
As a side-note, I'd like to mention that I suspect my experiences during samatha practice may change when I bring more energy into it -- as things are, I do not have a very active lifestyle (don't exercise enough, etc.). Whenever I have happened to sit with a greater degree of energy on reserve than usual, certain jhanic qualities have seemed to 'pop out' more rapidly, and in less time than usual. Maybe I will be more "state-oriented" as opposed to "thought/feeling-oriented" when I become more physically active in general? (I also realize that working on the 1st -- and last -- training, Morality, can radically help samatha practice.)
Also, apologies for my Frankenstein word, "jhanic."
I'm trying to find out if I have experienced the 3rd samatha jhana or not.
I am pretty sure I have 2nd jhana -- my attention definitely widens out from being focused on my primary kasina (that which I began the sit with), and I can experience "absorption" upon any object that I lay my eyes on (my attention is less controlled as it "navigates" this more "spacious" jhana, and it gently moves from one object to another, experiencing each one with clarity). Also, in my specific case, contemplative (very effortless) thoughts begin to arise when I get absorbed in an object -- these thoughts may or may not have to do with the object itself. Sometimes my mind "rests" on the object as thoughts emerge about my thought and emotional patterns themselves.
I'd say in the 1st jhana the thoughts that arise while I'm focused on the kasina (a flame) are thoughts about the nature of the kasina, or thoughts about the effort that's being put into not straying from the kasina. In the 2nd jhana, it's all "fair game" -- there's no internal reaction to the thoughts that occur -- it's as though the mind has been left alone to produce whatever thoughts it may (while the attention is firmly grounded on the jhana/whatever the kasina may be). Overall, it's a very relaxing and pleasant experience.
Of course, the thoughts aren't entirely random -- and neither am I going into "flights of fancy." Usually I'll contemplate the "solidity" of an object, or some other aspect of it. Or I may closely examine a past traumatic experience with no ego-investment in it (as though a film were being watched to form an objective understanding of it).
I am taking the above to be 2nd jhana -- does it sound like it?
I have a little doubt because in MCTB, not much is said about the thoughts that may occur during Concentration Practice aside from how our "stuff" is supposed to come bubbling up as we engage in the practice. Also, healing psychological insights are supposed to arrive through Concentration Practice -- to me it seems like they start occurring deep into the 2nd jhana/once one gets into the 3rd jhana (more on which below).
That said, I've been reaching a point lately where I can make the "width" of the jhana my object. My attention withdraws a little from the specific objects in the (2nd) jhana, and attends more to the spaciousness of the jhana itself. Also, this is probably a very personal occurrence, and will not help anyone to identify the jhana, but after staying in (what I consider to be) the 2nd jhana for a while, and after I've made "width" my object, certain very difficult emotions I continue to harbor -- "repressed" to a certain extent -- seem to be met with a very loving, accepting and I guess "compassionate" response arising as though out of the jhanic state itself. It's as though a very difficult emotional knot gets unraveled while in that state (and then further progress may occur -- I think).
Does this make sense?
Since the "attending to space itself" and "positive response/'answer' to a generally tortuous cluster of feelings" factors appear so different than everything leading up to them (while in the 2nd jhana), I'm wondering if I'm touching upon the 3rd jhana.
Sorry if the way I'm describing my experiences have so much to do with thoughts and feelings -- I'm only trying to recount experiences during Concentration Practice as I actually experienced them. To the best of my knowledge, I've stuck as closely as possible (maybe even a bit obsessively!) to the instructions laid out in MCTB for Training in Concentration.
As a side-note, I'd like to mention that I suspect my experiences during samatha practice may change when I bring more energy into it -- as things are, I do not have a very active lifestyle (don't exercise enough, etc.). Whenever I have happened to sit with a greater degree of energy on reserve than usual, certain jhanic qualities have seemed to 'pop out' more rapidly, and in less time than usual. Maybe I will be more "state-oriented" as opposed to "thought/feeling-oriented" when I become more physically active in general? (I also realize that working on the 1st -- and last -- training, Morality, can radically help samatha practice.)
Also, apologies for my Frankenstein word, "jhanic."
