Shinzen Young & Chelsey Fasano 2 - The Science of Enlightenment -GV Podcast

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Steve James, modified 8 Months ago.

Shinzen Young & Chelsey Fasano 2 - The Science of Enlightenment -GV Podcast

Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/15/19 Recent Posts
New episode featuring Shinzen Young in dialogue with Chelsey Fasano!
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From the shownotes:

In this episode I host part 2 of a dialogue between Shinzen Young, meditation teacher and neuroscience research consultant, and Chelsey Fasano, a Columbia University neuroscience student.

We get a front row seat for what Shinzen calls ‘early science’ as Chelsey consults Shinzen on her current research project, a review of the neuroscience literature that examine states of self-identification and non-dual awareness.

In the course of the discussion, we discuss different paradigms of enlightenment, including gating of attentional abilities, reducing self-referential activity, the neuroscience of clinging, top-down processing and more.

Chelsey shares her own meditation experiences and Shinzen reveals a detailed account of how he experiences the world after a lifetime of extreme meditation and hard-nosed science.


https://www.guruviking.com/ep76-shinzen-young-chelsey-fasano-2-the-science-of-enlightenment/

Audio version of this podcast also available on iTunes and Stitcher – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.


Topics Include:
0:00 - Intro
0:51 - The three stories of self and reality
6:23 - Gating attentional abilities vs reducing self-referential activity
7:59 - How the modern influences traditional teachers
8:27 - Integrating hard data and subjective experience
9:11 - Chelsey’s meditation experiences
11:23 - Antonio Damasio’s theoretical framework and other theories
14:14 - Decrease in identification with the body in advanced practitioners
16:50 - Is it possible to grade levels of enlightenment?
19:34 - How Shinzen proves someone is not an arhat
22:32 - Enlightenment in the body
26:28 - Clinging and the posterior cingulate cortex (PCC)
35:27 - Reconfiguring top-down processing via meditation
40:12 - What is early science?
43:22 - Integration of liberation
49:40 - Shinzen’s experience after a lifetime of meditation and science
1:05:22 - Does theism have a place in science?
1:08:54 - Is enlightenment really about raw data?
... at the risk of lowering the tone I'd say that these two people are flirting.

why? well i just got that impression, but if you look closely Chelsey talks from the left side of her mouth and Shinzen from the right. I looked at the previous video and he's more neutral, so he's mirroring her, who's driving it I have no idea.  And then towards the end he leans in and says (regarding theism) with a big smile 'let this be our secret'.  ;-)

Hey' i'm not critcising.


Yet i also had half an ear to the words spoken ...

Towards the end Shinzen mentions what it's like to see a mountain.... it all reminds me of the philospher's story of 'Mary's room' where Mary lives in a monochrome room, sees only shades of gray yet has been told about red but cannot experience 'red' without ... erm... experiencing it in person. And, per Shinzen, the experience involves 2 billion years of evolution and a vast cascade of mostly subconscious baggage associated with light waves of some frequency, some innate/ evolved and some learned.  Philosphers agonise for decades over this ("what is the experience of 'red'"), yet isn't it quite a simple process ie see red light, trigger more stuff and sit back and watch (and react to) the lot ??? So 'red' is the sum total of your bodymind's reaction to some light waves, including the context.  Philosphers make the mistake of trying to find a nugget of 'redness' (in iteself) unrelated to evolution or personal history.  

'Qualia Errat Demonstratum' indeed!

Refuations welcome....

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