RE: medication

Mike Smirnoff, modified 2 Years ago at 3/11/21 9:39 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 2/10/21 11:07 PM


Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
George S, modified 2 Years ago at 2/11/21 11:50 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 2/11/21 11:50 AM

RE: medication

Posts: 2752 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
 Hey Mike,

I took prozac on and off for a few years for depression. I also suffered from anxiety and the psychs suggested medication for that, but I didn't want to add more medications. The prozac caused a bit of anxiety initially for a few weeks and the withdrawal was pretty unpleasant for a few months. Looking back, the SSRI seemed to help a bit at the time but it's blindingly obvious to me now that both the depression and anxiety were due to emotional causes (repressed developmental issues). I had some sense of this at the time, which is why I was somewhat resistant to medication and didn't want to stay on it for too long.

My first therapist was in England and we started to get into the developmental stuff, but I had to terminate that when I moved to America. I was shocked by how quickly psychs here were willing to prescribe medication and attribute stuff to genetics and/or physical causes. I feel like the whole system is slanted by the insurance requirements - they want therapists with a quick turnaround (limited talking) and even the half decent talking therapists still want to refer you to a pill doctor as well so their asses are covered. Good talking therapists seem to be hard to find and not covered by insurance, so will be prohibitively expensive for most.

I went through a period where I thought that stuff had "spiritual causes", but even that I see now as repression of the root emotional stuff. Obviously depression and anxiety are experienced in the body with physical symptoms, but that doesn't mean that the causes are physical. There's tons of evidence that even if kids are "only" neglected (as opposed to outright abused) then it has physical effects and that stuff doesn't go away.  Meditation also has profound physical effects, in some ways stronger and more persistent than any amount of medication. But it doesn't make any money, so no one in "the system" is going to be overly enthusiastic about that!

Sorry for the rant, I feel strongly about this subject and reckon it set me back about 10 years.

All the best,
Lewis James, modified 2 Years ago at 2/12/21 5:57 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 2/12/21 5:57 AM

RE: medication

Posts: 155 Join Date: 5/13/15 Recent Posts
I've been prescribed beta blockers in the past, they're fine really regardless of the source of your anxiety. They mainly work on the physical anxiety response, and don't have much if any of a mental effect. 

My experience also aligns with George S. re: finding causes for anxiety. Dukkha is dukkha. You could argue that every aspect of your life has spiritual causes; wouldn't be wrong necessarily, it's a valid way of looking, but it's not a very useful frame for a doctor's office.

If you're experiencing suffering you should be honest about experiencing suffering to those trying to help you; trying to explain it away as "well it's my special suffering that I get/need/avoid from meditation" feels a bit too compartmentalising for me, the web of dukkha is not so neatly divisible imo.
George S, modified 2 Years ago at 2/12/21 8:54 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 2/12/21 8:46 PM

RE: medication

Posts: 2752 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I think it’s important to distinguish between different uses of the word ‘self’. The self in developmental psychology is our inner world of bodily sensations and feelings, which eventually develops into social relationships with others. Saying that this stuff is ‘not-self’ means it’s impermanent and empty of any intrinsic existence. But that doesn’t mean we need to get rid of it, rather we fully accept it and our relationship to it changes. The problem is that if someone is emotionally neglected or abused growing up then they will repress their feelings of shame, anger and sadness, so that part of their self is hidden and eventually leads to depression. Focusing too much on not-self can then become a continuation of that repression pattern, which can lead to depersonalization, even if there are some unitive experiences (that’s what happened to me). I would recommend reading Alice Miller's The Drama of The Gifted Child and/or John Bradshaw’s Homecoming - Reclaiming and Healing Your Inner Child.
Sam Gentile, modified 2 Years ago at 2/13/21 11:41 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 2/13/21 11:31 AM

RE: medication

Posts: 1347 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Hi Mike,

I was on on various SSRIs for years about ten years ago for my OCD (esppecially hyperchondria) and deprression. I found that they eventually had success stopping the hospital visits of the hyperchondria  but I was finally able to get in a place where I didn't need them anymore for OCD. I still take a minimal 10 mg of Celexa but I'm not sure it does anything at that dosage.

I benzodiapienes (sp?) for anxiety instead of beta blockers and find they help a litttle.

Talking therapy and meditation have been the most effective modes for me.
Jim Smith, modified 2 Years ago at 2/14/21 2:26 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 2/14/21 2:26 AM

RE: medication

Posts: 1295 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Mike Smirnoff
 I told her that some of the anxiety is because of spiritual causes which she called an assumption 

It's impossible to know for sure from an internet post, so I'll just point out for your consideration that sometimes biological effects on mood cause us to seek for answers in spirituality. For example if someone is depressed and life seems pointless because of depression, their thoughts naturally tend to asking spiritual questions like what is the meaning or purpose or point of life etc.

Another example: people often fear death because of psychological reasons and that drives look at the evidence for the afterlife and they become interested in spiruality for that reason.

So it's worth considering whether your spiritual views are causing your emotions or your emotions are causing your spiritual views.