Question Re Noting & Samahdi

Nick W, modified 12 Years ago at 9/15/11 2:01 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 9/15/11 2:01 PM

Question Re Noting & Samahdi

Posts: 41 Join Date: 6/28/11 Recent Posts
Hi everyone,

I wanted to experiment with a little noting practice. I've been doing body scanning vipassana up till now. I have a question for more experienced yogi's if you have a moment...

Q. My samahdi is quite good, though it's a matter of debate whether I am in a Jhana, or in Access --either way my concentration practice is anapana at the nose. Should I develop my samahdi then note the rising and falling of the abdomen? Or develop my samahdi with the rising and falling of the abdomen? (with no anapana)

Many thanks!
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Tarver , modified 12 Years ago at 1/13/12 9:34 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/13/12 9:34 AM

RE: Question Re Noting & Samahdi

Posts: 262 Join Date: 2/3/10 Recent Posts
I would love it if someone with more experience answered your question, because I find myself in a similar situation: good samadhi via anapana (in my own estimation), now trying noting, curious about what constitutes good or adequate concentration in this practice, also curious about how to develop samadhi specifically within this practice. Have I got that right, as far as your question?

I suspect that the answer will be along these lines: adequate samadhi is by definition simply the ability to keep noting, including noting not only the rising and falling of the breath, but also the desire, curiosity, confusion, resolution, etc., etc,. etc., around sorting out how to note the rising and falling of the breath "with no anapana", whatever you mean by that.

Just to be clear, this is a guess as I have very limited experience.
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Nikolai , modified 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 4:44 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 4:39 AM

RE: Question Re Noting & Samahdi

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Nick W:
Hi everyone,

I wanted to experiment with a little noting practice. I've been doing body scanning vipassana up till now. I have a question for more experienced yogi's if you have a moment...

Q. My samahdi is quite good, though it's a matter of debate whether I am in a Jhana, or in Access --either way my concentration practice is anapana at the nose. Should I develop my samahdi then note the rising and falling of the abdomen? Or develop my samahdi with the rising and falling of the abdomen? (with no anapana)
!


I made the transition from sweeping to noting and retained the anapana spot that Goenka teaches as an occasional anchor to conentrate the mind. I eventually dropped this anchor in favour of choicelss anchorless noting. It is up to you to see which best fits your style and keeps the mind noting and concentrated enough to keep doing so. it is not neccessary to do noting strictly with the abdomen. Stick with the anchor that best suits you.For myself choicless fast style noting lead to developing high levels of concentration and even to unwittingly gaining access to the 4th jhana. If the mind is directed in one direction i.e. being aware of whatever phenomena is taking centre stage from moment to moment without any gaps, concentration will naturally improve in my experiecne.



My experiecne upon switching to noting from the sweeping method.
http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2011/01/yogi-toolbox-noting-part-1-nicks.html


Nick
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Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 6:15 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 6:15 AM

RE: Question Re Noting & Samahdi

Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent Posts
Hi Nick. I thought you got 1st path with pure Goenka technique? Is that not right?

Thanks for posting the link to your article. It's great stuff. I've been wrestling with the idea of doing some noting for some time, but have thusfar stayed with sweeping. Currently I'm hovering around the low equanimity like stage with occasional bursts upward to high equanimity. I'd thought to stick with it, but reading this leads me to ask if you think it might be worth developing a noting skill at this stage?
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Tarver , modified 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 7:48 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 7:48 AM

RE: Question Re Noting & Samahdi

Posts: 262 Join Date: 2/3/10 Recent Posts
Bagpuss The Gnome:
I've been wrestling with the idea of doing some noting for some time, but have thus far stayed with sweeping. Currently I'm hovering around the low equanimity like stage with occasional bursts upward to high equanimity. I'd thought to stick with it, but reading this leads me to ask if you think it might be worth developing a noting skill at this stage?


Do it, Bagpuss, do it! Try noting! After all, "You are your own master." I have been noting your practice thus: "striving observing scanning scanning scanning failing logging logging writing writing writing striving striving scanning scanning scanning nearly missing falling falling failing failing writing writing writing striving striving wanting wanting wanting scanning scanning hoping wanting observing scanning scanning observing nearly missing nearly missing nearly missing failing failing failing writing writing..." I keep waiting for your post saying, hey, today was the day, but the big "it" just ain't showing up. With your level of dedication, perspicacity, and focus, this could well be just the thing to turn the trick.

To speak to the topic of this thread, I think that the key aspect of samadhi relevant here is voluntary control over attention. In sweeping/scanning, the dimension over which voluntary control is developed is where on the body I choose to have conscious experience of sensations at this moment. For example, in anapana I would be choosing to have conscious experience of sensations at the "anapana spot", and it turns out that this is easier and more sustainable when one is relaxed, concentrated, etc., and those qualities kind of fall into place through trial and error. But the focus is skewed sharply to the first and second of the four aspects of satipatthana that the Buddha suggests (body, sensations, mind, mind objects) with the direct emphasis on body & sensations and only indirect, almost peripheral inclusion of the mind and mind objects. In spite of the instruction to remain equanamous in the face of wandering mind and other "distractions", the whole game is set up in win/lose terms with voluntary control of conscious attention "succeeding" when it is where I want it to be, and "failing" when it is elsewhere. In fact, this requires strong emphasis on remaining equanamous, because the whole game is set up to inevitably and frequently "fail", which is of course frustrating.

With noting, the axis of emphasis is rotated, so to speak, so that the basis of samadhi is not striving for equanimity with sensations where I happen arbitrarily to have decided that I happen to want to feel them right now, but to being present to whatever arises in any aspect of awareness. Equanimity becomes truly a means to an end, not an end in itself, because it turns out that this can best be done when one is relaxed and concentrated, much like anapana in that respect, but the entire exercise cannot fail so long as I retain voluntary control over where I put my attention. Where should I "put" my attention? Wherever it happens to be. Right here. Right now. Noted. Bang. Next. Noted-bang-next. Succeed, succeed, succeed, win win win win win win etc. Relaxing into this (both in the sense of the explanation I have just given, and the object of attention at any given moment while practicing) should result not only in excellent samadhi, but with persistence -- I am hoping -- enlightenment itself.

I am only a very short way into trying noting myself. The main obstacle I have run into so far (besides just getting the instructions straightened out, which seems relatively trivial but does require a bit of re-tooling, so to speak) is being temporarily overwhelmed by the awesome backlash of insight that almost immediately results from doing this. I am very grateful to have this problem. I am looking forward to seeing what you make of it!
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Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 1:03 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 1/14/12 1:03 PM

RE: Question Re Noting & Samahdi

Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent Posts
Tarver:

Do it, Bagpuss, do it! Try noting! After all, "You are your own master." I have been noting your practice thus: "striving observing scanning scanning scanning failing logging logging writing writing writing striving striving scanning scanning scanning nearly missing falling falling failing failing writing writing writing striving striving wanting wanting wanting scanning scanning hoping wanting observing scanning scanning observing nearly missing nearly missing nearly missing failing failing failing writing writing..." I keep waiting for your post saying, hey, today was the day, but the big "it" just ain't showing up. With your level of dedication, perspicacity, and focus, this could well be just the thing to turn the trick.


Well that's not a bad summary of my practice!

I would ideally like to complete 1st path doing what Im doing. I've invested much time into the technique and here in the UK it's easier to go on a Goenka / U Ba Khin style retreat than a Mahasi one. Also, Im a stubborn bastard.

I'd quite like to be in a position to say i've used the Goenka techniques to gain SE and be able to help others here do the same. Im not saying I wouldn't switch styles, but probably not until after I've done one more retreat --that would then be 4. Hopefully I can stay above the DN till April when I can next go and then hit the ground running.