RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 20 Days ago.

Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
Lately, off the cushion, I've been noticing dukkha in many ordinary things. I had an "ah ha" moment a few days ago in which I was driving my car and then had a deep realization that we are just animals experiencing sensations. Dukkha seems to be apparent for me now in all these sensations. Dukkha in the mind and body. For some reason it gave me a deep sense of connection to everything else. Really tough to describe in words.

I was aware of this information prior to this "ah ha" moment, but for some reason it helped me to reach a deeper level of understanding. I'm not sure what to do next. Dukkha is what it means to be human. Dukkha is in everything. Is there a way to accept this and move past it? It seems as though my mind is dwelling on this idea. Perhaps some healing needs to happen? 

On the cushion, I've been exploring the Goenka body scans. I'm a noobie to this style of technique. Perhaps that is causing some insight on a deeper level. When I did the body scan today I felt an overwhelming sensation of sadness in my chest, like I just need to cry it out. But, I have no reason to be sad. At least none that I can think of.

Perhaps I just need some words of encouragement or more context for Dukkha to allow my mind/body to accept it.

Thank you for reading this!

-Kelly
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 1660 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
I will join you on this but Im no expert of any kind ... emoticon

Dukkha, Anicca and Anatta seem indeed to be part of Consciousness, however we also seem to work on "paying attention to it" and in doing so we slowly but surely "awaken" to more and more arising-passing moments in our This Experince. Be it unpleasant, neutral or pleasant, its all subject to these 3 Characterisitcs, or call it 3 perceptions if you will, same same emoticon 

Dont get confused by Pro-Jhana monks who say that Right Path is good at the start, good in the middle and good at the end  meaning without UNPLEASANT states/stages emoticon They are selling this shit now for centuries and yet we know well that some monks "roll up the mat" at some stage and disrobe. So shit DOES hit the fan and there is something we can do in this case. Usually in such cases we have spent our Good Karma Coins on good meditative times and now we have but a truckload of shit to deal with. So what can we do? I can ask "am I mindful right now?" and then check and see ... hearing, hearing, imagining, hearing, touching, preasure, itching, vibration, hearing, touching, moving, seeing ... emoticon I CAN DO SOMETHING even if all is gone to shit and I cant enjoy meditation as same as those fancy pro-Jhana monks we ofetn hear about emoticon We can note our matter of fact expereince and keep awaking to it.

Think of it this way maybe;
Monks of the Jhana Realm awaken to the Deva/God realm. However there are other realms to awaken to also. 6 of them emoticon No issues if we start with the Human Realm first or? emoticon We can always do the God realm later (however this realm is overrated in my opinion).

So we take what we get served, moment by moment and we plow through it steadily , at least 1 noted sensation per second for the duration of our daily 45-60 min sit. Pleasant, neutral, unpleasant, we take it as it is and note it/objecify it.
This stuff cant be forced so steady but curious and gentle/relaxed (in body) is important as well as lots of Acceptance, especially for the Unpleasant stuff.

I hope you get some other replies of benefit and wish you all the best!
Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
Thank you for these thoughtful words. It seems that I need to do some research on the realms as I'm not familiar with this term. I'll report back!
Sam Gentile, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 988 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Kelly Gordon Weeks
Lately, off the cushion, I've been noticing dukkha in many ordinary things. I had an "ah ha" moment a few days ago in which I was driving my car and then had a deep realization that we are just animals experiencing sensations. Dukkha seems to be apparent for me now in all these sensations. Dukkha in the mind and body. For some reason it gave me a deep sense of connection to everything else. Really tough to describe in words.

Yes, this is the insight of the Buddha. You have gotten a key insight here. You are now recognizing that Dukka is everywherre. That helps you get motivated to dedicate yourself to your spiritual path.

I was aware of this information prior to this "ah ha" moment, but for some reason it helped me to reach a deeper level of understanding. I'm not sure what to do next. Dukkha is what it means to be human. Dukkha is in everything. Is there a way to accept this and move past it? It seems as though my mind is dwelling on this idea. Perhaps some healing needs to happen? 

What do you next? Practice. Dukka is what it means to be human but the Buddha said in the 3rd Noble Truth there is a way of getting rid of that and that is Awakening. Yes some healing needs to take place. But its not in an instant. It's not automatic. You have to work for Awakening no matter how long it takes. Find the appopraite path. Maybe a teacher. And practce.

On the cushion, I've been exploring the Goenka body scans. I'm a noobie to this style of technique. Perhaps that is causing some insight on a deeper level. When I did the body scan today I felt an overwhelming sensation of sadness in my chest, like I just need to cry it out. But, I have no reason to be sad. At least none that I can think of.

​​​​​​​Are the body scans working for you? Are they producing insight? Maybe you need to try other methods...

Perhaps I just need some words of encouragement or more context for Dukkha to allow my mind/body to accept it.

Thank you for reading this!

-Kelly
Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
Thank you for your response. I've been pondering about finding a teacher for a long time!

've been only doing the body scan for a couple of days. I'm new to the Goenka style. I usually split my sits between samatha and rapid noting.
Sam Gentile, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 988 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Kelly Gordon Weeks
Thank you for your response. I've been pondering about finding a teacher for a long time!

I can recomend a teacher who works with a number of us here and will get you on a good path. If you are intersested send me an email at mscoree42@gmail.com. 

've been only doing the body scan for a couple of days. I'm new to the Goenka style. I usually split my sits between samatha and rapid noting.
​​​​​​​I think samatha and rapid noting are better vechicles.

George S, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 1488 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
You just came off 6 months of strong samatha practice if I recall, where dukkha is naturally attenuated, so there's bound to be a comparative aspect to your perception of dukkha severity. This is the classic A&P -> Dark Night transition, where the DN shows up
as *loss* of the A&P wonders. Slowly you figure out that you are making it worse for yourself by resisting it, so you grieve it, accept it and then settle into equanimity.

I know what you mean about the connection aspect of dukkha, because that's what we all have in common in the human realm, and perception of that is the basis of compassion. Samatha is bascially god realm where you are blissed out and ignorant of suffering. Of course that's very therapeutic and necessary at times, but everything has its limits :-)

As for the sadness ... it's natural to look
for a reason - there may one, there may be many. Every upsetting or traumatic experience which is not fully experienced at the time gets stuck in the body, waiting to be experienced at a later date (if ever, in which case it's continually acted out). Actually it's better to experience the dukkha on a purely physical/emotional basis if you can, without the overlaying mental narrative of reasons (which is like sticking yourself with a second arrow). That said, if the pain becomes overwhelming then it needs to be done slowly to avoid being retraumatized, and then some therapy can help to uncover the issues and put some structure around the cathartic experiencing process.​​​​​​​
Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
Thank you for your helpful words! This gives me a lot to consider. And it's also impressive that you recall my last post about samatha.

​​​​​​​The path for me is interesting, as I'm sure it is for everyone that is paying attention. Attainments are tricky, but I think this may be a very long second path. The first 9 months of my practice (first path most likely) the path itself was very apparent, especially in the way that my attention moved from single-point to diffuse with the nanas. Now I'm able to concentrate single point regardless of the nana so "where I am" is less apparent. 
George S, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 1488 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Yeah it seems pretty common to drift from nanas to jhanas over time, as well as have less and less idea where you really are ... emoticon
Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 18 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
I'm definitely seeing DN tendencies now! The past three days once I get my concentration high it feels like I'm sinking down into a hole. From that point, I just see the very end of thoughts. It's like waking up from a dream with each thought and immediately forgetting what I was thinking about.

​​​​​​​Time to sit back and watch the scary movie for a while!
George S, modified 17 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 1488 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
That's right ... remember to laugh at the ghosts!
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Ni Nurta, modified 17 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 614 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Memory performance and dukkha are related to the what seems like activation levels of the parts of nervous system. If it is too low or too high then you have issues.

Proper activation is such that once part of nervous system fire one it is kept at exactly activation level where it doesn't immediately go to full sleep but also not high enough to cause any further activity (which would overload it). Either case is wrong as it ultimately causes some sort of re-using this part of nervous system very quickly.

There is a range of proper 'voltages' and a sweet spot at which parts of nervous system neither go to sleep nor there is any activity there which destroys its state. At this activation level any difference caused by rest of nervous system which tried to access it will cause some activity and what seems to pretty much being able to get information out of it. Also this part of nervous system won't be used to do things like arising awareness or processing new information until its state is changed causing new chunks of nervous system to have to do this new stuff causing much better utilization of nervous system. And because a lot of information collected over time and is kept there this information can be used increasing fidelity, improving memory and ultimately increasing activity needed to process things. Once this is learned neither of these issues will happen and memory performance will be so good you won't believe you used to be so terrible at managing your nervous system.

The only tiny issue with all this is that actual control of activation levels that I am talking about requires 8th jhana. And I am talking about pure refined 8th jhana which actually exposes functions of nervous system and this is both very easy once you know how to do it and hard because there is too much things in nervous system and investigating what does what without screwing things up. Obviously if you experience DN then you changed something... probably do not even know what and how XD Typically nervous system will get to somewhat working conditions after some time so the best way is to observe what is happening and if you do want to actually learn how to control activation levels to not have to deal with DN bullshit then you need to be more pro-active in trying to control this stuff "manually" and by manually I mean to try to do something to actually control it. Just, and this is a bit of warning, do not try to do too much changes at once as it is easy to go overboard with this stuff. Small corrections here and there, observing if what you did had any effect and if it was good, bad, potentially good if you went this direction but slightly more to that other direction... this sort of things.

In any way this is how I practiced and after many years of trial and error I found how to control this stuff to the point such issues do not arise anymore. Even if I forget to worry about my nervous system activation levels and such then any dukkha can be easily fixed by putting parts of nervous system which tend to have issues and those related to them to this half-activation state and I notice how activity there immediately ceases to almost none. At the same time it seems I do not loose whatever they output on consciousness. No memory loss. This is unlike putting these parts of nervous system to sleep which caused memory loss and ultimately it was very hard to prevent nervous system immediately using these parts of nervous system so all I got was little momentary rest... which was still better than nothing but obviously not the solution. Middle activation is the best cessation as it actually decrease activity where there should be none.

Of course dukkha is caused by abusing parts of nervous system. Cells have chemical processes, temperature and other metabolism stuff to worry about. If you abuse them bu using them all the time then you get dukkha. Awareness which arise using parts of nervous system where cells suffer will appear as suffering. Typically most issues arise in part related to sense of self but can happen even in perception of outside world. It is the same issue and frankly after months of thinking how I should describe it this is the only proper way.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 1660 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Edit. Wrong thread. Sorry. Not sure what happened. 
Martin, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 253 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
For me, the real benefits of meditation came when I started to see dukkha everywhere. Or, to be more precise, when I started to see a lot of dukkha. I saw it in the shower, and in the car, and while eating cookies, and going skiing. I complained about it to my teacher at the time and she said: this is the suffering that leads to the end of suffering. And she was right. Once I saw how dirt common suffering was, it bugged me a lot less. It stopped seeming unnatural or unfair. I have since had the occasion to see dukkha literally in everything. It is one of the building blocks of all experience. Oddly, that was nice to see. There is nothing in the least bit aberrant about it. It's how animal experience is built. I'm guessing that this might be similar to the experience you are describing. 

I don't think it needs to be gotten past. I think it just needs to be well understood. The more we understand it, the less it can surprise us, the less likely it is to cause us to respond by gasping so as to tighten the net. It's helpful to remember, though, that just because suffering is fundamental doesn't imply that there is nothing but suffering. 
Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
Thank you for this! I appreciate your perspective.
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Dustin, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 103 Join Date: 12/28/17 Recent Posts
Kelly Gordon Weeks
Lately, off the cushion, I've been noticing dukkha in many ordinary things. I had an "ah ha" moment a few days ago in which I was driving my car and then had a deep realization that we are just animals experiencing sensations. Dukkha seems to be apparent for me now in all these sensations. Dukkha in the mind and body. For some reason it gave me a deep sense of connection to everything else. Really tough to describe in words.

I was aware of this information prior to this "ah ha" moment, but for some reason it helped me to reach a deeper level of understanding. I'm not sure what to do next. Dukkha is what it means to be human. Dukkha is in everything. Is there a way to accept this and move past it? It seems as though my mind is dwelling on this idea. Perhaps some healing needs to happen? 

On the cushion, I've been exploring the Goenka body scans. I'm a noobie to this style of technique. Perhaps that is causing some insight on a deeper level. When I did the body scan today I felt an overwhelming sensation of sadness in my chest, like I just need to cry it out. But, I have no reason to be sad. At least none that I can think of.

Perhaps I just need some words of encouragement or more context for Dukkha to allow my mind/body to accept it.

Thank you for reading this!

-Kelly

That's interesting. I've been seeing dukkha lately too. I've seen impermanence come up a bunch of times and now it seems to be somewhat locked in and less noticeable. But the dukkha part just started in the last months. Hard to describe like you say. I notice things seem to take effort and also notice how many things there are to do. Like waking up to eating breakfast. There so many things in between. I've never noticed life is a constant point a to point b and on and on. Not that I lose energy or it upsets me type dukkha just that I see how much it takes on a daily basis to live.

Meditation practice seems to bring up shit out of nowhere. I know how it is to feel down and out for sure. When I'm sad or overwhelmed crying is always a great remedy. Also Shargrol on here talks about long walks in nature and warm baths when feeling out of whack.  That works well for me. Sounds like your making progress. 
Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
I feel like I could have written this! The way you describe the effort to do things is very relevant for me. The way that time passes so much more slowly than it seemed to before. The many moments between point a to point b, and how much effort it takes to get there. The way my mind characterizes and magnifies the negative aspects of each situation. I guess this is part of the process of awakening. 

I love Shargrol's writing. I need to go to his website and read up!

Thanks for the suggestions!
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Oatmilk, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Seeing Dukkha in Everything Lately

Posts: 95 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
I always sense Dukkha as a pervasive quality of awareness. No matter what you do it won't be satisfying. 

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