Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast - Discussion
Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 1:42 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 1:41 PM
Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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Through listening to a lot of Daniel Burbea's stuff, I came across super-meditator Daniel Thorson's podcast EMERGE: Making Sense of What's Next. It's not new. In fact, he stopped it when he went on retreat. He just made the NY Times when he emerged out of 75 day retreat. There are real gems here including 5 up and persoonal retreats with Rob Burbea particarly when and why he was concieving the Soulmaking Dharma.
Noah D, modified 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 2:28 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 2:28 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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I love this podcast. I've listened to probably 75% of episodes. My favs are with Soryu Forall, Vinay Gupta, Hanzi F, Nora Bateson, amongst others. Those are the ones that immediately come to mind.
Brandon Dayton, modified 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 4:13 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 4:13 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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It's a good one. Still making my way through all the eps. It's a really nice complement to the stuff you read about here. Daniel Thorson started with MCTB and pragmatic dharma and Emerge is kind of about filling in all the gaps (No dis on MCTB, since it is admitedly intended to be about developing in a narrow band of human ability) and Emerge is able to go more into other models of psychological and societal development. The Hanzi Freinacht ep. is a great place to start as it is an intro to Metamodernism which is helpful to frame almost everything else he discusses. The first guest on my podcast that wasn't some previous acquaintance was Miles Bukiet who I also first heard on Emerge. Takes awhile to get up to speed with some of the jargon but It'll def. get you thinking and seeing things in new ways.
Zero, modified 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 4:20 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 4:20 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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Can you say a bit more about what you've learned from Daniel Thurson/Emerge? What are the gaps in MCTB/pragmatic dharma? What are the goals and themes? What's their vision? I'm asking because I get the sense that the talks might be a bit too lofty, idealistic, and airy for me.
Brandon Dayton, modified 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 4:40 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/25/21 4:40 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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Although Daniel I. acknowldges and references the importance of other areas of human development, MCTB is primarily about developing in Wisdom via insight. Emerge looks at things like morality, relationships, cooperation and other systems that fill out the experience of the individual but also extend out into things like community, society and the environment. In short, he's saying that there's more we need to attend to then just seeing through the illusion to self. I think it's a good counterbalance to the intensity of interest that can come from engaging in pragmatic dharma. I've found it personally helpful to remind me to attend to other areas as well.
My teacher told me the story of someone who was a very advance practicioner, but her observation was that he seemed like everything he had learned had happenned alone in his room. He was awake, but he was kind of a nutty weirdo. She referred to the idea of a "balanced awakening". I think that is one way to look at what Emerge is doing. It's trying to be as thorough as possible with its investigation of how we can develop (individually and collectivelly) in an as broad and balanced way as possible.
Stuff does gets lofty, but it's also pretty committed to pragmatic application of the ideas. You'd be hard pressed to say that Daniel H. is just talking about ideas he's not willing to commit to, or experiment with himself. From my understanding, his work at the Monastic Academy is a pretty direct emobdiment of most of what he is exploring.
My teacher told me the story of someone who was a very advance practicioner, but her observation was that he seemed like everything he had learned had happenned alone in his room. He was awake, but he was kind of a nutty weirdo. She referred to the idea of a "balanced awakening". I think that is one way to look at what Emerge is doing. It's trying to be as thorough as possible with its investigation of how we can develop (individually and collectivelly) in an as broad and balanced way as possible.
Stuff does gets lofty, but it's also pretty committed to pragmatic application of the ideas. You'd be hard pressed to say that Daniel H. is just talking about ideas he's not willing to commit to, or experiment with himself. From my understanding, his work at the Monastic Academy is a pretty direct emobdiment of most of what he is exploring.
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Years ago at 3/26/21 1:49 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/26/21 1:49 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
Posts: 1310 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent PostsAlthough Daniel I. acknowldges and references the importance of other areas of human development, MCTB is primarily about developing in Wisdom via insight. Emerge looks at things like morality, relationships, cooperation and other systems that fill out the experience of the individual but also extend out into things like community, society and the environment. In short, he's saying that there's more we need to attend to then just seeing through the illusion to self. I think it's a good counterbalance to the intensity of interest that can come from engaging in pragmatic dharma. I've found it personally helpful to remind me to attend to other areas as well.
Brandon, I have to admit I got these podcasts only because Rob Burbea was on 5 of them and it tuns out his Soulmaking Dharma is totally incomprehensible as the other stuff. Do I really need the stuff above that you point out? I justt want to get awakened. I supoose I do but the language oos this kind of stuff doesn't make sense to me.
Brandon, I have to admit I got these podcasts only because Rob Burbea was on 5 of them and it tuns out his Soulmaking Dharma is totally incomprehensible as the other stuff. Do I really need the stuff above that you point out? I justt want to get awakened. I supoose I do but the language oos this kind of stuff doesn't make sense to me.
Brandon Dayton, modified 3 Years ago at 3/26/21 2:20 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/26/21 2:20 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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There is a learning curve necessary get up to speed with Emerge, but honestly, it's less than what you need to do so with pragmatic dharma. Whether or not you find it interesting or useful though is entirely up to you.
Maybe start with the Jordan Grenhall episode on sovereignty and see what you think. It's a concept very related to awakening.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2f4PBrLaXREdqlc0oBV8Zr?si=sXUiPTJ6TcGk8rEenwSgVA
Maybe start with the Jordan Grenhall episode on sovereignty and see what you think. It's a concept very related to awakening.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2f4PBrLaXREdqlc0oBV8Zr?si=sXUiPTJ6TcGk8rEenwSgVA
Noah D, modified 3 Years ago at 3/27/21 12:57 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/27/21 12:57 AM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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To chime in further on this conversation , I like the placement of emerge as focused on "balanced awakening " (I think she got this from Shinzen btw). Awakening as described in Buddhist sutra, tantra & commentaries is not along one axis. It is much more than seeing through the fundamental immediate duality which is the root cause of grasping. It has to do with the types of powers needed to transform all aspects of ones personal life & participate in a network of parallel efforts which scale to alleviate collective suffering & evolve society as a whole. Emerge podcasts hosts many voices that speak to this path. As does the "pragmatic dharma" movement.
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Years ago at 3/27/21 11:05 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/27/21 11:05 AM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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I'm finding the Jordan Greenhall episode on Sovereignity really tough going because of all the prerequistite materials but I'm plunging ahead.
Can you give me a clue on how its very related to awakening?
Can you give me a clue on how its very related to awakening?
Noah D, modified 3 Years ago at 3/27/21 10:32 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/27/21 10:31 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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Fwiw I don't find Jordan Gs model that compelling . It feels like a modern, simple reworking of the basic Buddhist lists : 5 faculties , 3 trainings, etc. He is super popular amongst the metamodern crowd but perhaps it would be better if they refreshed their Pali canon reading lol. I would not say that about all the episodes. Hanzis game b stuff , for instance, is additive to basic dharma.
Brandon Dayton, modified 3 Years ago at 3/28/21 1:25 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/28/21 1:25 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent PostsSam Gentile, modified 3 Years ago at 3/29/21 12:40 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 3/29/21 12:39 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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Brandon, I studied up on Jordan Greenhall and Soveriegty all weekend and still in the end, what is the end result? Is it a framwork for building complex apps? Is it a toolkit? Where? Or is it a philosopy?
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Years ago at 6/30/21 4:14 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 6/30/21 4:14 PM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
Posts: 1310 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent PostsShekinah Alegra, modified 2 Years ago at 12/31/21 12:32 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 12/17/21 4:31 AM
RE: Daniel Thorson's Emerge: Making Sense of What's Next podcast
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Re: Interviews with Soryu and Vinay Gupta
There is appx. 20-25 known to me reports of spiritual, emotional, and psychological abuse regarding Soryu as a teacher. Many people have left the monastery with long-term symptoms of cPTSD, anxiety attacks, OCD, varying levels of difficulty functioning, and in some cases suicidal thinking as a result of training with Soryu. There are also accounts I have heard that implicate him in unethical behavior and or that generally show a lack of empathy.
Simply based on my own experience, I would never trust Soryu as a teacher. In combination with his previously (?) held views on destroying humanity I think Soryu is quite dangerous and not someone I would recommend others models themselves after. I have questions about Soryus training history and whether or not he has the training, personal stability, ethics, or compassion to be a safe teacher. He does not have the transmission in the Zen lineage but he seems to be teaching in a Zen style rather than Shinzen Young's system under which he has been given permission to teach. There are several conflicting accounts from other community members who studied with Soryu at Sogenji that conflict with his account about his training. MAPLE Monastic Academy - Discussion - www.dharmaoverground.org
The Berkeley branch of the Monastic Academy was the most poorly run and unethical organization I have ever encountered in ten years of working in and with nonprofits. There are many structural components in Monastic Academy's training model that are concerning to me such as the overlap of staff and participants that increase risks, the makeup and dynamics of the board that raises questions about oversight, and a lack of adequate feedback processes and accountability structures.
Something else that is questionable to me is the fact that Vinay Gupta (assuming it's the same person based on context) is both A) a major donor of the Monastic Academy b) I have heard that there are multiple accounts of Vinay Gupta sexually harassing and/or sexual assaulting 13 different women. There was also another wealthy donor whom Soryu has brought into MAPLE where multiple incidents have occurred impacting multiple women. Multiple women have left the community and/or been silenced for speaking out about these issues. I have heard other reports of sexual harassment. During my own experience, I was sexually assaulted by an organizational leader who is still a part of the organization (though no longer in his leadership position.)It is my opinion that the Monastic Academy is not a safe and equitable space for women to practice, and for many people of all genders because of the training itself.
Men who continue to practice in and perpetuate these patterns in practice regardless of how women are treated and silenced need to strongly reconsider what they think it means to be compassionate or ethical - as well as to address their own sexism and misogyny. It's absolutely heartbreaking and egregious to offer training for compassionate and wise leadership and then allow others to be treated this way.
There is appx. 20-25 known to me reports of spiritual, emotional, and psychological abuse regarding Soryu as a teacher. Many people have left the monastery with long-term symptoms of cPTSD, anxiety attacks, OCD, varying levels of difficulty functioning, and in some cases suicidal thinking as a result of training with Soryu. There are also accounts I have heard that implicate him in unethical behavior and or that generally show a lack of empathy.
Simply based on my own experience, I would never trust Soryu as a teacher. In combination with his previously (?) held views on destroying humanity I think Soryu is quite dangerous and not someone I would recommend others models themselves after. I have questions about Soryus training history and whether or not he has the training, personal stability, ethics, or compassion to be a safe teacher. He does not have the transmission in the Zen lineage but he seems to be teaching in a Zen style rather than Shinzen Young's system under which he has been given permission to teach. There are several conflicting accounts from other community members who studied with Soryu at Sogenji that conflict with his account about his training. MAPLE Monastic Academy - Discussion - www.dharmaoverground.org
The Berkeley branch of the Monastic Academy was the most poorly run and unethical organization I have ever encountered in ten years of working in and with nonprofits. There are many structural components in Monastic Academy's training model that are concerning to me such as the overlap of staff and participants that increase risks, the makeup and dynamics of the board that raises questions about oversight, and a lack of adequate feedback processes and accountability structures.
Something else that is questionable to me is the fact that Vinay Gupta (assuming it's the same person based on context) is both A) a major donor of the Monastic Academy b) I have heard that there are multiple accounts of Vinay Gupta sexually harassing and/or sexual assaulting 13 different women. There was also another wealthy donor whom Soryu has brought into MAPLE where multiple incidents have occurred impacting multiple women. Multiple women have left the community and/or been silenced for speaking out about these issues. I have heard other reports of sexual harassment. During my own experience, I was sexually assaulted by an organizational leader who is still a part of the organization (though no longer in his leadership position.)It is my opinion that the Monastic Academy is not a safe and equitable space for women to practice, and for many people of all genders because of the training itself.
Men who continue to practice in and perpetuate these patterns in practice regardless of how women are treated and silenced need to strongly reconsider what they think it means to be compassionate or ethical - as well as to address their own sexism and misogyny. It's absolutely heartbreaking and egregious to offer training for compassionate and wise leadership and then allow others to be treated this way.