Vipassana mctb style

Alessandro Migliori, modified 27 Days ago.

Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 20 Join Date: 3/24/21 Recent Posts
Hi, i was getting started with the mctb, and he talks about fast vipassana, 6 sense doors and 3c.
Was trying the technique as i understood it, and i don t know if i m doing it right. 

I did mahasi noting for 2 months, noting 1 sensation per second, i found that the mental energy was more into the labeling than seeing clearly the 3c, liked it because the labeling keeped up with the discursive mind and didn t get lost in thought, but not so much and didn t understand why it s so much praised, didn t really like labeling

After reading the start of mctb i started to do fast noting without label, and i have to say it has so many facets, i can t understand if i m doing it "right". 
I can see little sensations vanish as they arise, and some solid sensation break down into more little ones. 
Sometimes i get reeealy solid ones in the spines, when it s like that i don t know if i should ignore it and focus on the little ones that vanish as they arise, or stick with the solid one till it break down. 

Also about the speed, there are some sensations that seems to just be there, so i want to note something i can easily find one and noticing it, but i don t feel it s arising and vanishing. Should i stick to noticing the one that arise and vanish or just scan the whole field and noticing everything? 
It s speed more important than seeing clearly the 3c? 

​​​​​​​Thanks 

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Emil Jensen, modified 28 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 254 Join Date: 7/16/20 Recent Posts
 Hey man, good job on getting into this practice!
And also, know that's it isn't easy for anyone, so your struggles with this are normal and in a way a part of the practice.

Here's my humble answer to your questions:

About the 3C's, don't worry so much about seeing them in your practice. It's not like you sit there and look for the these characteristics, as much as it's something which becomes clear after simply observing sensations objectively for a while.

I guess sometimes either of the 3C's are really clearly seen, and that's fine too. But basically what you want out of the practice is the ability to see all of the sensations that make up your whole experience clearer. But clearer how? - Well, I guess this is where MCTB focuses on speed, although you can also gain clarity by noting more slowly and thouroughly. The speed thing is something which used to throw me off a bit, but I learned that the speed isn't really important. Clarity is. And of course if you don't note a sensation clearly more than once every minute, a lot of stuff will pass you by in that darkness. So in a way speed is also important, just not to the point that it should be a concern if you are clearly and consistently noting anyway.

The reasons for labeling are several. Perhaps there are more good reasons than I know of, but I found these "benefits" to noting:
- You tend to not drift as much. Noting keeps you with the object of the meditation easier.
- Labelling deepens your observations. It's almost as if your talking mind and basic observation skills join forces and help each other make more details clear. Sometimes my mind have noted something I wasn't really aware of and then that has shed more light on it.
- Labelling objectifies/neturalizes the noted sensations. For instance, if you feel anger in your sit, labelling this anger makes it less personal by givin it a name. Now it's "anger", not so much the feeling of "I'm angry". The same goes for all the physical sensations you can feel in the body, giving rise to this anger. 

About the really solid sensations, I would say don't worry too much about it. There's nothing hiding inside the solidity. You can't break it up and find all kinds of new insights inside of it. So just note "solid as hell" and continue your meditation as if this solidity was just another kind of sensation - which it is!

I would recommend reading some good ole' Shargrol on noting styles. I've read a lot on this blog, but not all of the "noting styles". What I did read did help me with my speed-concerns emoticon
https://shargrolpostscompilation.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html#notingstyles


Peace, brother! 
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Pepe, modified 28 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 344 Join Date: 9/26/18 Recent Posts
Daniel Ingram says in MCTB2 - Equanimity Chapter: "In the first part of the path the beginning of objects was predominant. In the A&P we got a great sense of the middle of objects but missed subtle aspects of the beginning and end. In the Dark Night the endings are about all we could really perceive clearly ... (Only in High-EQ, with) Formations (is that we can) once again put together all of this work we have done in a very natural and complete way that finally includes everything in experience ... The level of clarity out of which formations arise also allows us to see formations from the time they arise until the time they disappear, thus illuminating clearly those transient, empty sensations that make up a sense of a self or of a sensate universe continuing coherently in time". 

Fast Noting, Slow Noting (Daniel Ingram)
Noting Speed (Shargrol)
Alessandro Migliori, modified 28 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 20 Join Date: 3/24/21 Recent Posts
Thanks guy was helpful
George S, modified 28 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 1611 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
The great thing about noting is that it doesn't matter what you are doing ... so long as you are noting it! So your noting stream in the above could be:

- noting wondering if I'm doing fast noting right
​​​​​​​- noting wondering if I should stick with the solid sensations until they break down into little ones
​​​​​​​- noting wondering whether to stick with single sensations arising and vanishing or scan the whole field
- etc etc

It really is that simple! Doubts about technique and questions of intention, choice and control are all just more stuff to note. I guarantee that if you pursue this singlemindedly enough then something dramatic will happen in your practice, and it doesn't necessarily need to take long if you really dedicate yourself to it. You should read Mahasi Sayadaw's Progress of Insight if you haven't already (chapter 5 of this book) because that really gives you a sense of where this is heading and some momentum. But other than that, just note the hell out of everything! Good luck :-)
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Alessandro Migliori, modified 27 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 20 Join Date: 3/24/21 Recent Posts
Yeah that makes sense.
Did a quick read at the mahasi s book last year maybe it s time to read it again more carefully. 
​​​​​​​Thanks 
Sam Gentile, modified 27 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 1059 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Hi, I have been noting here for about 2 years. I was brought here by Daniel Ingram so I guess my noting was always "fast" noting mctb style. But the speed never really mattered except in that the more speed, thhe less opprotunity for thinking/more mindfulness. Emil's response has got a lot of information. And as George S. writes note everything! Everything you think you doing wrong! Everything you feel about that. Everything. Noting quality is more important than speed.

One of my things I do that's part od the 3C's: try to note impermanence. Don't make it a struggle about impermence. Just everytime you have  apain/itch,etc and you notice it ceasing (going away), just note "ceasing" or "gone". This will really help you.
Alessandro Migliori, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 20 Join Date: 3/24/21 Recent Posts
Yes i m trying and so far so good.
​​​​​​​Did you hit cessation in 2 years? Everyone here seems to have lol
George S, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 1611 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
You will hit cessation when you stop thinking about cessation and just stick to noting :-)
Alessandro Migliori, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 20 Join Date: 3/24/21 Recent Posts
Right lol
Sam Gentile, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 1059 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Alessandro Migliori
Yes i m trying and so far so good.
​​​​​​​Did you hit cessation in 2 years? Everyone here seems to have lol
Well that's a little jab emoticon. I had one A+P climbed to Equanamity. Then I had another mega A&P and again I have climbed to Equanmity. So SE is next I guess but who knows when emoticon
Alessandro Migliori, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: Vipassana mctb style

Posts: 20 Join Date: 3/24/21 Recent Posts
Best wishes