RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Pierre de Sousa, modified 1 Month ago.

Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
It seems we live inside a paradox

Like God is playing some good old reverse psychology on itself

You can let go of all labels

All constructs

And concepts

To the point where you don’t recognize a laptop, coffee cup, etc etc etc

At this point it seems you’re just awareness but it’s not true

The self is re-establishing itself over and over

To try to remember sort of

To have a last grip of what’s going on

Like a death and rebirth moment to moment

Sometimes super fast sometimes slow

But if you let go of the remembering process and stop recognizing

It’s like deathlessness in your experience

Which oddly enough is the most life filled experience I’ve seen

Trying to understand leaves you confused

Letting go everything gives you understanding of reality

Clinging to identity makes you lose yourself in others reactions and other stuff

Letting go of personhood let’s you find your true identity

Voluntary suffering gives bliss

Seeking and craving happiness creates suffering

Clinging to something makes you lose it

Aversion to bad emotions creates more

What a world


Also

There is no one hearing, seeing, thinking

It all just appears and vanishes

And it seems love is the only human phenomenon that’s fairly real in the absolute sense of “real”




Have you found you automatically deconstruct things and it makes it hard to relate to things on the formal operational level?

Sometimes I can barely read

It's like concepts, symbols, etc vanish and things just are.


When people speak, sometimes all I hear is sound arising and vanishing

I can't make out sentences or meanings

And a book is just shapes and colors. Etc

So it's hard to function
And it's so nice to just be this dysfunctional, but it's not an effective way of leading a life. And requires a TON of effort to get out of these states and back into regular functionings of the mind.


What practices do you do now, if any? I've found that everything happens spontaneously now, and sitting down to "meditate" feels like reinforcing a self, because "i am meditating"

Most practices seem weird

Noting feels very futile

Samatha can be cool for states but not really progressing much on the path.

Self-inquiry feels pointless because it's just guiding me to a sense of being a witness, but there's no one here anyway.


Grateful for any guidance, pointers, advice, etc.

​​​​​​​Thank you so much, this board is incredible!


EDIT: Lastly, I've never paid much attention to the maps. But perhaps that's why I'm confused as to how to practice right now. I recognize a lot of stuff I read about especially in path 1 & 2. But I've read about how things are supposed to flash or flicker 3 times before stream entry or whatever and I don't have that. So maybe these are all just states? I feel an weird equanimity these days and don't really mind having mystical states or regular states, there's little to no cravings or aversions to anything. Equanimity seems more or less permanent and I can go into strong altered states within 2-5 minutes of just being quiet. But also practice seems boring/weird/pointless, almost like a DN but I'm not feeling like it's a DN. So if anyone has any input on where I might be on the maps that would be appreciated so I can read more about it and perhaps gain a bit better understanding. I don't have a teacher so I think maybe I've neglected so much technical stuff that I'm a bit all over the place right now.
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 1774 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Pierre de Sousa

So it's hard to function
And it's so nice to just be this dysfunctional, but it's not an effective way of leading a life. And requires a TON of effort to get out of these states and back into regular functionings of the mind.

I would focus on the clinging and aversion here.
Yellow Tree, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
George S
Pierre de Sousa

So it's hard to function
And it's so nice to just be this dysfunctional, but it's not an effective way of leading a life. And requires a TON of effort to get out of these states and back into regular functionings of the mind.

I would focus on the clinging and aversion here.


Yep, clearly it I realized after some more practice after reading these comments, thank you!
thumbnail
Stefan R, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 90 Join Date: 3/28/21 Recent Posts
De-construction of reality itself leads to a paradox, as we notice that in the de-construction we implicitly assumed there was something wrong with it all along. Reality was/is/will be fine. "No concepts" is still a concept. "No perspective" is still a perspective. There was nothing to say all along. 

The paradox is that mind creates reality. However, the mind is itself a part of reality. 

Just seems to me like some shamatha practice could help stabilise the effects of hardcore balls-to-the-wall vipashyana. Your writing seems very strung out, disjointed, and jagged. But that's just my interpretation/perspective. Others may have differing opinions. 
Yellow Tree, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
Stefan R
De-construction of reality itself leads to a paradox, as we notice that in the de-construction we implicitly assumed there was something wrong with it all along. Reality was/is/will be fine. "No concepts" is still a concept. "No perspective" is still a perspective. There was nothing to say all along. 

The paradox is that mind creates reality. However, the mind is itself a part of reality. 

Just seems to me like some shamatha practice could help stabilise the effects of hardcore balls-to-the-wall vipashyana. Your writing seems very strung out, disjointed, and jagged. But that's just my interpretation/perspective. Others may have differing opinions. 


This comment was very helpful. Made great progress today. Thank you!
thumbnail
Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 1847 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
You can't go wrong by practicing "Look how it's ... (add mind's story here)" 

If in EQ Nana or post SE this approach can be of use. 

So you go on by looking at what the mind story is ? Like ; 

Look how it thinks all is boring, look how it thinks this practice is pointless, look how it's talking to itself, look how it's looking, look how it's walking, look how it's unsure if this is EQ or post SE, look how it's hearing, look how it's assuming, look how it's eating, etc ... 

Basically you are exposing mind stories and beliefs, any sort of self-validation, ... 

Vipassana is very good at exposing the Chariot. We suddenly see it's not a chariot but just a story made up of tiny pieces joined into stories. We see these fast tiny arise-passing pieces. Good stuff. But we also must realize that these "chariots" (stories both tiny and huge) still keep forming. And you keep inquiring about these emoticon So, emoticon keep Looking at these mind stories and Note/Notice those instead of the usual Noting of see/hear/feel. Or even mix them
up together. 

Best wishes! 
Yellow Tree, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko
You can't go wrong by practicing "Look how it's ... (add mind's story here)" 

If in EQ Nana or post SE this approach can be of use. 

So you go on by looking at what the mind story is ? Like ; 

Look how it thinks all is boring, look how it thinks this practice is pointless, look how it's talking to itself, look how it's looking, look how it's walking, look how it's unsure if this is EQ or post SE, look how it's hearing, look how it's assuming, look how it's eating, etc ... 

Basically you are exposing mind stories and beliefs, any sort of self-validation, ... 

Vipassana is very good at exposing the Chariot. We suddenly see it's not a chariot but just a story made up of tiny pieces joined into stories. We see these fast tiny arise-passing pieces. Good stuff. But we also must realize that these "chariots" (stories both tiny and huge) still keep forming. And you keep inquiring about these emoticon So, emoticon keep Looking at these mind stories and Note/Notice those instead of the usual Noting of see/hear/feel. Or even mix them
up together. 

Best wishes! 



Did this today while driving and it was absolutely nuts. Altered state of consciousness and huge exposures of little things the mind usually tries to hide. Thank you so much for this suggestion!
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 699 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Understanding can arise along with basic sensual perceptions of perceived objects and there can be a lot of understanding, more than you could imagine should be possible. It won't however happen when for the most of your life you do redundant work that is pretty much only for the purpose of pretending that it was you who understood something and not you have aversion to understanding altogether after you noticed that this process of trying to be the one who understands causes dukkha.

There are things which are easy to notice but we often miss them because we deny them. Then there are things hard to notice and we might still deny them making them even harder to realize. Lastly noticing something doesn't mean you automatically have correct understanding about its causes and certainly doesn't by itself give you correct solutions to any issues that might need resolving.

This is however not as helpless as it sounds. Just do not assume you got everything right and test what you know and do not be afraid to have new ideas. Do not block them and let things arise when they want to arise. This is the way to increased intelligence and you will need it to solve these paradoxes. That is why it is better improve your perception and cognition than seek liberation. Smart people can figure liberation easily but liberated people who are not smart won't figure out anything including how their supposed liberation even works.
Yellow Tree, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta
Understanding can arise along with basic sensual perceptions of perceived objects and there can be a lot of understanding, more than you could imagine should be possible. It won't however happen when for the most of your life you do redundant work that is pretty much only for the purpose of pretending that it was you who understood something and not you have aversion to understanding altogether after you noticed that this process of trying to be the one who understands causes dukkha.

There are things which are easy to notice but we often miss them because we deny them. Then there are things hard to notice and we might still deny them making them even harder to realize. Lastly noticing something doesn't mean you automatically have correct understanding about its causes and certainly doesn't by itself give you correct solutions to any issues that might need resolving.

This is however not as helpless as it sounds. Just do not assume you got everything right and test what you know and do not be afraid to have new ideas. Do not block them and let things arise when they want to arise. This is the way to increased intelligence and you will need it to solve these paradoxes. That is why it is better improve your perception and cognition than seek liberation. Smart people can figure liberation easily but liberated people who are not smart won't figure out anything including how their supposed liberation even works.


This was a very interesting and insightful comment. Would you please expan a bit on "improve your perception and cognition"? How exactly is this done in practice and what intention would I set before practice so facilitate this further? Thank you!
thumbnail
Kaloyan Stefanov, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 15 Join Date: 2/18/21 Recent Posts
Your description reminds me a lot of how I felt roughly in the theritory you are describing. You might be experiencing some instability, so shamatha practice (more dedicated) or just enjoying the sunset in whatever jhana your attention seems to most naturally gravitate to (again a version of shamatha, but less dedicated/edgy) definately helped me stabilize things + get a more thorough view on what is going on. It is perfectly normal to feel a bit lost in that territory, I definately was lost and also somewhat dysfunctional in day-to-day life.

On a more conceptual level, I was struggiling at that point because I still had clinging for something that is in some way a TRUE/REAL/NON-EMPTY refuge and that itself is a big reason why I experienced these paradoxes. Once you get to the stage where everything is and always was EMPTY LUMINOSITY, transient interconnectedness, emphemeral whatever you wanna call it, and only through delusion had appered otherwise, these paradoxes resolve themselves, and there is typically laughter (although not necessarily emoticon ). Keep going, it feels from your description you are making progress.
Yellow Tree, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Paradoxes and deconstruction of everything. Am I crazy or progressing?

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
Kaloyan Stefanov
Your description reminds me a lot of how I felt roughly in the theritory you are describing. You might be experiencing some instability, so shamatha practice (more dedicated) or just enjoying the sunset in whatever jhana your attention seems to most naturally gravitate to (again a version of shamatha, but less dedicated/edgy) definately helped me stabilize things + get a more thorough view on what is going on. It is perfectly normal to feel a bit lost in that territory, I definately was lost and also somewhat dysfunctional in day-to-day life.

On a more conceptual level, I was struggiling at that point because I still had clinging for something that is in some way a TRUE/REAL/NON-EMPTY refuge and that itself is a big reason why I experienced these paradoxes. Once you get to the stage where everything is and always was EMPTY LUMINOSITY, transient interconnectedness, emphemeral whatever you wanna call it, and only through delusion had appered otherwise, these paradoxes resolve themselves, and there is typically laughter (although not necessarily emoticon ). Keep going, it feels from your description you are making progress.

Wow, this was really soothing to read. Great to know it's not an abnormal reaction to these these. I'm already doing much, much better after applying the advice in this thread. Think I'll be starting a progress journal in here to keep it all in one place too. Thank you again!

Breadcrumb