Message Boards Message Boards

Claims to Attainments

Enlightened! Definitely enlightened.

Toggle
Enlightened! Definitely enlightened.
Answer
9/30/11 3:06 AM
Hi everyone! Very happy to be here in a dharma area. I don't know who or what I am! I am just a sort of blissful and loving ignorance. Everything that is going on in the world, I don't know much about it. And yet I know there are all these people seeking to attain something that I understand more clearly than most people. I didnt' mean for it to be this way, but it has become this way. It is like playing chess with someone who is just totally ignorant as to what you are about to do to them. I just see other beings as a little bit or a lotta bit slower on the whole awakening trip than I am.

The odd thing about it is that I don't see unenlightened beings anywhere. I just see the play of consciousness and I find it adorable and I absolutely love the total ignorance and folly consciousness is capable of. HA HAHAH! Now, I am not consciousness, nor am I anything in consciousness, but I understand the play very well now. It really all is the play of sentience. Enlightened and unenlightened are both beautiful expressions of the totally fucked misperception that you are human. Anyhow. The feeling I have is of having left the play. Like, I'm not here, but here I am, just much stupider and lazier and more blissful than before. And I am longing to marry someone who is also awake, that would be so nice. But at the same time, I find this play of future hilarious. It all gets absorbed back into its source. Prior to desire, no world. Desire births the world. The world spirals out of control. Consciousness gets very lost. Slurp it back in and nothing's there anymore! One stir of desire and BAM! The whole universe reappears. But this process is understood and quite enjoyed now. Everything is gone, then a desire, BAM! The whole thing is there as if it had never gone away, but this time it appears and I know it is NOTHING but a dream. And that most live in this dream. So one way I have gone about waking others up in a non-religious way is to suggest to them that we are in a dream. I use We at first, to get a playful start with them. Then I reveal to them that my mind is actually outside of the dream and that I can use this human form they see to wake others up.

Anyway, every time I think about people in a certain way I find them so endearing and to be such idiots. Anyhow. I am Kian. Pleased to meet you. Fare well, lovely beings. I will be around to answer your questions and pee on your objections, although I will listen to anything that is said with utmost humility and stupidity.

My point, I think, is that waking up is possible. That's exciting, right? It would be a much funner playground if humanity woke up. I do this for the generations to come. I do this for the coming children. I love them already. It'll be more of the same, but with less blame.

RE: Enlightened! Definitely enlightened.
Answer
9/30/11 6:15 AM as a reply to Kian Fallahi.
Kian Fallahi:
Hi everyone! Very happy to be here in a dharma area. I don't know who or what I am! I am just a sort of blissful and loving ignorance. Everything that is going on in the world, I don't know much about it. And yet I know there are all these people seeking to attain something that I understand more clearly than most people. I didnt' mean for it to be this way, but it has become this way. It is like playing chess with someone who is just totally ignorant as to what you are about to do to them. I just see other beings as a little bit or a lotta bit slower on the whole awakening trip than I am.

The odd thing about it is that I don't see unenlightened beings anywhere. I just see the play of consciousness and I find it adorable and I absolutely love the total ignorance and folly consciousness is capable of. HA HAHAH! Now, I am not consciousness, nor am I anything in consciousness, but I understand the play very well now. It really all is the play of sentience. Enlightened and unenlightened are both beautiful expressions of the totally fucked misperception that you are human. Anyhow. The feeling I have is of having left the play. Like, I'm not here, but here I am, just much stupider and lazier and more blissful than before. And I am longing to marry someone who is also awake, that would be so nice. But at the same time, I find this play of future hilarious. It all gets absorbed back into its source. Prior to desire, no world. Desire births the world. The world spirals out of control. Consciousness gets very lost. Slurp it back in and nothing's there anymore! One stir of desire and BAM! The whole universe reappears. But this process is understood and quite enjoyed now. Everything is gone, then a desire, BAM! The whole thing is there as if it had never gone away, but this time it appears and I know it is NOTHING but a dream. And that most live in this dream. So one way I have gone about waking others up in a non-religious way is to suggest to them that we are in a dream. I use We at first, to get a playful start with them. Then I reveal to them that my mind is actually outside of the dream and that I can use this human form they see to wake others up.

Anyway, every time I think about people in a certain way I find them so endearing and to be such idiots. Anyhow. I am Kian. Pleased to meet you. Fare well, lovely beings. I will be around to answer your questions and pee on your objections, although I will listen to anything that is said with utmost humility and stupidity.

My point, I think, is that waking up is possible. That's exciting, right? It would be a much funner playground if humanity woke up. I do this for the generations to come. I do this for the coming children. I love them already. It'll be more of the same, but with less blame.


Welcome Kian to the DhO.

Speculative diagnosis: 4th nana of Arising and Passing Away

Nick

RE: Enlightened! Definitely enlightened.
Answer
9/30/11 9:54 AM as a reply to Kian Fallahi.
hello Kian,

nice to have you here. now that you've seen that waking up is possible, would you be willing to entertain the notion that it's possible to wake up again from this (post-awakening) dream, and then from another dream, and another...? or that the dreamer waking up from dreams could be another kind of dream in itself?

you might enjoy looking through the information available relating to what you've been going through and how you can take advantage of it and further explore your potential. the wiki section of this site alone has tons of links.

search key words:
arising & passing away
udaya-baya-ñana
vipassana
progress of insight

welcome to the forum!

jill

RE: Enlightened! Definitely enlightened.
Answer
9/30/11 1:10 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Nikolai .:


Welcome Kian to the DhO.

Speculative diagnosis: 4th nana of Arising and Passing Away

Nick


Thank you thank you.

I have been reading about the progress of insight and although I have never been a vipassana practitioner, preferring self-inquiry and deep questioning, I am impressed that there is such a system! Also I am going on my first 6 week vipassana retreat in a few weeks, so I'm excited about that. But Yes, it seems a lot like this may be where I'm at. Could you explain more to me about cycles, as I feel this is not the first time 'round this particular state.

Here is some background about my journey:
I feel that I have spent the past 10 months or so in a Dark Night. Absolute misery of the worst kind possible. I couldn't stand to be inside my own skin. Major major identity crisis that no one I met could relate to in the least. I couldn't even relate to it, but I just felt incredibly confused about who I was. I had seen massive glimpses of the basic unreality of the world as I knew it, my sense of identity had repeatedly been blasted to shit, I saw through death, I felt eternal, time stopped, clocks were funny, and I'd go to bed and wake up feeling as if nothing was ever changing. Then I started eating a lot and just watching X-Files and getting drunk. I thought life was too funny and ridiculous to be meditating or giving a shit. I soon saw that this was some sort of ridiculous conditioning that was coming up and also my tendency toward laziness and indulgence.

Some time later:
Feelings of fear, separation, angst, anxiety, insecurity, hopelessness everywhere I went. Simultaneously I felt I understood something no one else really understood, and this added to the despair. I tried to appear normal but I was so fucked up it was unbelievable. I destroyed all my relationships, couldn't stand to be around anyone or to do anything other than vegetate on my couch. My misery made relating impossible, work was hell, everything I experienced, every person I encountered just supported and enhanced my angst. I projected a lot of my suffering onto other people, not understanding that this was not related to circumstances, but a deep sort of conditioned wounding around being a separate being. I couldn't help but hate people and feel hurt by them even looking at me. I wish I had known about this, but I guess I just slowly worked through it. Went on some prescription meds for a while, da da da, etc. Don't know what happened or why. I saw various therapists and sort of fell in love with a very pretty one and went to see her once or twice a week. That pleasant feeling of being able to be whatever I wanted in her presence while simultaneously being in love with her and getting to talk about my problems and insights was the one source of happiness I had at the time. Otherwise, I could barely do anything.

Before this I spent about six months living in a monastery and then at this point I was living in a retreat center. I wasn't a very "good" meditator. I didn't follow instructions, didn't meditate often, but the insights came fast and furious anyway and the people I spoke to who were in the practice longer than I was and people who clearly further along than I was were able to validate the experiences I was having. I can only attribute this to a burning desire to inquire constantly. I don't have a practice on the cushion and a life separate from it. Constant spirituality, punctuated by entertainment and focused work.

The resolution of the Dark Night for me began with getting my head knocked off by the RT people. I came in quite arrogant and full of myself. I knew I was insightful, but they're mean and fucked me up. So I gave in and tried their method and then the observer was gone for about 3 days. No observer whatsoever. Hardly even the thought of there not being an observer. Then it came back and I felt as miserable as before and felt confused. I finally decided to make some radical changes to my external world. Changed jobs, changed cities, got away from my family, took some mushrooms, and sort of compromised my external image to fit in. I managed to feel quite normal and integrated for a while. I felt like I could talk to people, get involved in their jokes and their games. Music and movies and life became rich again, but I was still constantly bothered by this identity crisis.

Next shift was a very very secure sense of being Space. When I referred to myself I knew I was referring to the space and I could hold conversations with my friends and family from this place. I did a bit of teaching to my closer friends who are vaguely on a spiritual path at this time. I felt unshakeable, very clear. And that would cycle in and out, and then eventually, next insight:

This space was with me all the time. It wasn't "me," but it was there. I called it Peace. It was this bubble, and it felt like a friend, who was always around. And I felt that I was neither the Peace, nor the chaos that unfolds within the peace, but I could see that they were both unfolding at the same time and this brought me great comfort.

Finally, the current insight, is very Taoist in nature. Opposites have lost meaning. There is a massive sense of humility. This is not in any way the same as prior to the Dark Night where I felt REALLY ENLIGHTENED. Something happened. It was like the entire imaginary world that was being projected over reality was slurped back up into its source. I started to fall in love in a way I had never fallen in love before. This was a genuine love for consciousness. I saw that whatever opposites or distinctions it manifests are completely the play of its capacity to imagine and delude itself. The difference between then and now, is that now, I feel quite joyfully ignorant. Then, I was profoundly awake. Now, not so much. Nothing profound, although thoughts sometimes lead me to that conclusion, but experience itself is this sense of cluelessness. I love how creative and stupid consciousness is. I see it in everyone. All ideas seem to arise in conjunction with their opposite, and both get slurped back up into consciousness. I no longer see consciousness as "space" or even as "awareness." It is before anything.

The general affect of this state is just calmness and wellness and heart melting compassion and love for beings. I don't care if I'm enlightened or not from this place. This has all happened with very very very little meditation practice. Just a sincere and burning to desire to get the fuck out of the darkness that had destroyed everything in my life. The result of having passed through this in terms of my perception of the world - basically, I don't hold it to a standard any longer. It isn't meant to satisfy me. I just watch and see how things go. There's a sort of bounce to it all. Like I can just flow with it without being too involved in a personal drama. I get delight out of little things like Halloween socks or the details on my skin. I don't like to impress people anymore. Sometimes sense of a Knower is located inside the body, other times, entirely non-local. I feel as close to the coffee cup as I do to the trees wiggling in the distance.

I also feel that sometimes, quite accidentally I disappear completely from the world. It's just like BAM! gone. Everything. And then it all just pours back out. I don't really have anywhere to go so that may just happen in cycles as I feel too embedded. Life is deliciously simple, with many moments of anxiety and fear about survival and whatnot, but the more I surrender, the more things just sort of take care of themselves.

Now, I just read this:

" However, this stage can be such a relief after Re-observation that it is very tempting to solidify it into the fourth samatha jhana either because doing so is so nice or because of fear of falling back to Re-observation, which can easily occur. However, as I continue to mention, not investigating the qualities of this stage, such as peace, ease, and a panoramic perspective, causes failure to progress and makes falling back to Re-observation more likely."

And I am going to heed the warning. Luckily I'm going on this badass retreat in a few weeks and am going to get a significant amount of formal practice in and can observe this new coolness.

"Confidence returns, but whereas there may have been a Rambo-like quality to it during stage 4. The Arising and Passing Away, now there is more of the cool, charming confidence of James Bond (sorry about the purely masculine images here)."

Again, seems right.

"It may be hard to read and pay attention, hard to listen to people and hear, hard to notice where one is and what one is doing. The arising of some sort of fear of madness and death is not uncommon at this stage, but usually does not cause too much trouble and may even seem comical or welcome."

Spot on again.

* * * * *

Anyway. The question now is - let's say I'm either in equanimity. What is this business about cycles? I do the whole thing over? How does that make sense? Is the cycle just a deeper penetration of each of the nanas? I read that after fruition, one can navigate the other nanas quite easily and spontaneously. And then attain "fruition" over and over. What does this mean?

Not Enlightened, Probably Not Enlightened.
Answer
9/30/11 3:05 PM as a reply to Kian Fallahi.
Going by your posts it's probable that you, as Nick and Jill have pointed out, have crossed the 4th ñana, also known as the A&P, and you're currently in 11th ñana, also known as Equanimity. I don't think you're "enlightened" and to continue to believe this without being able to verify it by describing, phenomenologically, the details of your current meditation practice will be of no use to you and is likely prevent progress. Basically, there's no evidence of you having gotten enlightened in your posts so far.

It's not that I'm just trying to be a prick and shoot you down, don't get me wrong, I could blow smoke up your ass and tell you you're the Buddha but it won't be of any use to either of us. Strip your practice down to basics, start doing straight-up insight practice and the entire thing will become clear as you go. What's happening over at RT is not always "enlightenment", as far as I can see most people are getting to the same stage you did, the A&P, with only a few people, most of which are people with previous meditative practice, attaining a permanent and ongoing perceptual shift. No doubt they would disagree, unfortunately I'm not interested in arguing about it and would much rather offer some practical advice based on actual practice.

Anyway. The question now is - let's say I'm either in equanimity. What is this business about cycles? I do the whole thing over? How does that make sense? Is the cycle just a deeper penetration of each of the nanas? I read that after fruition, one can navigate the other nanas quite easily and spontaneously. And then attain "fruition" over and over. What does this mean?

All of the question you're asking will be answered by thoroughly reading MCTB and doing solid, committed and precise insight practice. It's that simple. Don't worry about any of this right now, just get your arse on the cushion and start noting accurately, write up a report describing what happens during a sitting. Enlightenment is absolutely, completely and totally possible but you need to work like fuck to get here....but it's well worth every single second.

Best of luck and welcome to the DhO!

T

RE: Not Enlightened, Probably Not Enlightened.
Answer
10/2/11 3:50 AM as a reply to Tommy M.
Not quite right on any of your points, Tyler. This is not about control. This is not about a progression of experiences that cumulatively trickle into your bucket and finally fill up and make you enlightened.

This body.

THIS is impermanence. This is interdependence.

Over a trillion separate living organisms (cells) vibrating with energy, dying and coming to life, transferring data and information between massive gaps of space, acting together as if they were a single independent person. This is the farce of personal identity. And then - the cells in the body are not so different than the molecules in the air. Where is the boundary?

Mental states fly through an apparently solid and stable and singular mind. Running through this flip-book of memories and plans, experiences, thoughts, and models of development (of which there are hundreds) is a character. This character is not real. It is wholly and completely imagined and any apparent progress this character makes in a spiritual sense is, put as simply as possible, that which does not need to be enlightened, repeatedly running face first back into its own imagination, and the result is that it splatters into duality. The rich, vibrant, colorful world, with its truths and falsities, practices and models, people and their possessions and their egos and their things, as well as the stupendous beauty and subtlety in even the smallest fiber in a cloth or in a leaf. Electricity running all around you, light and shadow, sound, taste, smell, sensation. I look at the smallest things. I see the simplicity of truth and the totality of the spiritual journey is complete in looking at a grain of sand. Do you understand why? When there is no duality, a grain of sand is itself an expression of my liberation. It perfectly and completely expresses the perfection and simplicity of things.

There are a few things that are self-evident to me in day to day experience:

Reality is indestructible. In this sense it is absolutely solid, whole, one, and complete. Nothing ever goes missing. Nothing is ever out of place. What vanishes and appears is merely a change of form. To me, everything is reality and so nothing is ever lost or gained.

What perceives the mutations of reality is infinitely disembedded from it. Words I'd use to describe it are Translucent, Crystal Clear, Bright, Penetrating, Sentient, Silent. When it touches Reality it becomes Loving, Sensitive, Compassionate, Curious, Just. It is not a "self." It is like space, but the space is sentient and centerless. Every inch of this space is alive and it comes out of nowhere. It's just there. No origin. Nowhere it shoots out of and nowhere it returns information back to.

People live ONLY in concepts. They are ruled by their minds, their passions, their semi-absurd spiritual journeys, of which they are so protective, so invested in, so sensitive about, so righteous and prideful. On their way to some future state. People don't comprehend their mortality so they waste their lives assembling and disassembling different experiences. Comprehend that you are DEAD and the journey ends. You were never the body. You were never the thoughts. You were never an experiencer. Be DEAD so you can be of use and get some serious enjoyment out of this realm. There is no peace like the truth. There is no joy like the truth. You are not visual or energetic matter. Be done with mistaking yourself to be an object.

This has nothing to do with meditation. This is life. This is real. There is nowhere to go. Quit chasing after your senses, especially the mind. Let all things be and death will penetrate your mind. Like a scourge, all concepts and models will suffocate and what is left is clarity that does not come from the mind, or from a book, or from a person, but which is inherent to being.

RE: Not Enlightened, Probably Not Enlightened.
Answer
10/2/11 5:33 AM as a reply to Kian Fallahi.
Kian Fallahi:
Not quite right on any of your points, Tyler. This is not about control. This is not about a progression of experiences that cumulatively trickle into your bucket and finally fill up and make you enlightened.

This body.

THIS is impermanence. This is interdependence.

Over a trillion separate living organisms (cells) vibrating with energy, dying and coming to life, transferring data and information between massive gaps of space, acting together as if they were a single independent person. This is the farce of personal identity. And then - the cells in the body are not so different than the molecules in the air. Where is the boundary?

what boundary? do you mean, 'where is the fabrication of boundary'? if so, it is (in) both the entire formation as well as in the distinctions that are sensed, cognised, recognised, preferred, and thought about.

here are the fabrications of boundaries:

rupa
vinnana
sanna
vedana
sankhara



Kian Fallahi:

Mental states fly through an apparently solid and stable and singular mind. Running through this flip-book of memories and plans, experiences, thoughts, and models of development (of which there are hundreds) is a character. This character is not real. It is wholly and completely imagined and any apparent progress this character makes in a spiritual sense is, put as simply as possible, that which does not need to be enlightened, repeatedly running face first back into its own imagination, and the result is that it splatters into duality. The rich, vibrant, colorful world, with its truths and falsities, practices and models, people and their possessions and their egos and their things, as well as the stupendous beauty and subtlety in even the smallest fiber in a cloth or in a leaf. Electricity running all around you, light and shadow, sound, taste, smell, sensation. I look at the smallest things. I see the simplicity of truth and the totality of the spiritual journey is complete in looking at a grain of sand. Do you understand why? When there is no duality, a grain of sand is itself an expression of my liberation. It perfectly and completely expresses the perfection and simplicity of things.

There are a few things that are self-evident to me in day to day experience:

Reality is indestructible. In this sense it is absolutely solid, whole, one, and complete. Nothing ever goes missing. Nothing is ever out of place. What vanishes and appears is merely a change of form. To me, everything is reality and so nothing is ever lost or gained.

What perceives the mutations of reality is infinitely disembedded from it. Words I'd use to describe it are Translucent, Crystal Clear, Bright, Penetrating, Sentient, Silent. When it touches Reality it becomes Loving, Sensitive, Compassionate, Curious, Just. It is not a "self." It is like space, but the space is sentient and centerless. Every inch of this space is alive and it comes out of nowhere. It's just there. No origin. Nowhere it shoots out of and nowhere it returns information back to.

ah, the duality between the mutations of reality and its infinitely disembedded perceiver.


Kian Fallahi:

People live ONLY in concepts. They are ruled by their minds, their passions, their semi-absurd spiritual journeys, of which they are so protective, so invested in, so sensitive about, so righteous and prideful. On their way to some future state. People don't comprehend their mortality so they waste their lives assembling and disassembling different experiences. Comprehend that you are DEAD and the journey ends. You were never the body. You were never the thoughts. You were never an experiencer. Be DEAD so you can be of use and get some serious enjoyment out of this realm. There is no peace like the truth. There is no joy like the truth. You are not visual or energetic matter. Be done with mistaking yourself to be an object.

This has nothing to do with meditation. This is life. This is real. There is nowhere to go. Quit chasing after your senses, especially the mind. Let all things be and death will penetrate your mind. Like a scourge, all concepts and models will suffocate and what is left is clarity that does not come from the mind, or from a book, or from a person, but which is inherent to being.

ah, the (quasi-)evangelical a&p.

RE: Not Enlightened, Probably Not Enlightened.
Answer
10/2/11 7:12 AM as a reply to tarin greco.
tarin greco:

ah, the duality between the mutations of reality and its infinitely disembedded perceiver.


Hi Kian,

Stinking of 'enlightenment' is common after passing the a&p. It's just a beginning. There are many stages more to go if you choose to investigate further. Much, much more gross and subtle stinkiness to shed. The flow of 'me-ness' without a self to see can stink up a room quite fast. Many yogis can get trapped at the evangelical stage for years. Myself included. There is more to the puzzle if you keep looking.

@ tarin: 'the infinitely disembedded perceiver'. It would appear you just coined a term for a common predicament for many yogis. Perhaps a yogi can even be a 'chronic' infinitely disembedded perceiver? Been there.

Nick

RE: Not Enlightened, Probably Not Enlightened.
Answer
10/2/11 2:26 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
There is a long period of refinement, possibly without end. What I can share with you comes from my experience in a different tradition of inquiry. What you can share with me about vipassana I am fully enthusiastic about. I practiced for several hours yesterday and repeatedly was plunged back into the delicious light of transparency. I noted the 3C's in different phenomena and found many sticky points that are still mistaken to be related to a personal observer. Subtle things like the enjoyment of color, or the reactions in another's eyes. I also developed a different relationship to sensations and their accompanying thoughts and interpretations. Today's development: The end of the sensation and interpretation of "otherness" in other people. No more separate vantage points. What is experiencing life is a single sentient consciousness-space. People appear in this space. Myself, my mother, my sister. I see that our bodies exist simultaneously, in relation to each other, but that there is no one there. At all. There is only consciousness, which is itself non-local, imagining to be separate persons. When we interlock fingers and wiggle them, it is hard to tell, who's fingers are who's? Who is animating these wiggling things? No one. Just animation. Just the stream of being. From here, actual compassion is possible. Compassion that does not reflect on itself or congratulate. It is understood that there are not separate beings, just a single sentient space. If there is pain in that space, it is fully recognized as my own, in the most intimate way. Because there are not separate beings. This is an illusion. Anyway, the maxim of finishing what you start doesn't apply to the spiritual journey. It ends when you stop seeking what isn't there, not when it finishes. Ultimately, I think people are looking for rest and joy and love and clarity. These are present, but not available to a separate observer. They are inherent to being. That's where I'm coming from.

RE: Not Enlightened, Probably Not Enlightened.
Answer
10/2/11 2:54 PM as a reply to Kian Fallahi.
Kian Fallahi:
Ultimately, I think people are looking for rest and joy and love and clarity. These are present, but not available to a separate observer. They are inherent to being. That's where I'm coming from.


What is 'being'? Is it a felt sense of existing? Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'being'?

RE: Not Enlightened, Probably Not Enlightened.
Answer
10/12/11 11:10 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Hello, sorry for the delay. My computer pooped out for a while. I'd like to continue discussing with you as I am trying to understand the vipassana mentality and also to explain my state.

'Being' cannot point to what it refers to as it is only an idea in duality. It is neither form nor formlessness. It is not an entity or a thing. It is nothing at all related to a felt sense of being, which may be the sense "I Am" or "There Is," which is the initial stirring in consciousness which erupts into a universe of complications.

Truthfully, I see the dharma path as a manifestation of ignorance. It is a response to ignorance and so it is dependent on the ignorance it seeks to dispel, so that all who are on the path are ignorant.

I did not get here by practicing vipassana, I just find the practice fascinating although I find the whole mentality is quite off the mark. The practice - excellent. The rest - insufferable bullshit.

The primary thing I would like to point out is that this path emphasizes and reinforces the sense of a separate person progressing along a path toward some end. There is no such end, as there is no passage of time except within ignorance, fueled by desire for a better state or for perfection. For me sensate experience is all timeless and beginningless.

Enlightenment is not the progress of some dot (yourself) along some line (the Paths) to some end (the finish line). This is how progress is measured along the axis of time-bound desires. Point A and Point B appear momentarily within the appearance of reality, the mind (which imposes its interpretation) believes this, and the existence of two such points is taken for granted, as the entire reality-perception is structured and solidified into this model. For me there is a release from the dot-line model. "I" do not change. "I" do not progress. "I" is a dot. There is progress! But "I" have nothing at all to do with it. Reality does not require itself to practice anything in order to change and evolve. This is just happening naturally.

What use does a timeless, boundless, endless field of possibility and beauty have for insight? Practice? Progress? It is the very ground upon which all things arise and pass. It is itself your dharma realization and also your ignorance. What you seek to dispel is reality. What you seek to abide in is reality. It is already so. "You" will never evolve. Evolution, which is change, which may either bring more or less suffering as it happens, is the evolution of sensate experience and consciousness, which are one, and which are timelessly dancing to their own eternal rhythm, which is such a slow and steady and beautiful and simple rhythm, the mind cannot comprehend it, as it is fast, and is attracted only to stimulation and punctuation. Change happens on all levels. The trees sway and the mind is purified, the atoms vibrate and the stars are born and die. The evolution toward less suffering has never been your doing, as it would be impossible for anyone to "do" reality. It just is.

Tathagata
Answer
10/12/11 11:19 PM as a reply to Kian Fallahi.
Better put by someone who is awesome!!:


“The Tathagata is not the aggregates; nor is he other
than the aggregates.
The aggregates are not in him nor is he in them.
The Tathagata does not possess the aggregates.
What Tathagata is there?”



..."What do you think: Do you regard the Tathagata as form-feeling-perception-fabrications-consciousness?"

"No, lord."

"Do you regard the Tathagata as that which is without form, without feeling, without perception, without fabrications, without consciousness?"

"No, lord."

"And so, Anuradha — when you can't pin down the Tathagata as a truth or reality even in the present life — is it proper for you to declare, 'Friends, the Tathagata — the supreme man, the superlative man, attainer of the superlative attainment — being described, is described otherwise than with these four positions: The Tathagata exists after death, does not exist after death, both does & does not exist after death, neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"

"No, lord."...



There is no Tathagata! There never was! Nor was there not a Tathagata! Neither formless nor form. Not "I" and not "not-I." Neither "progress" nor "stillness." Just... release. No words for it.