George practice log 3.

george, modified 3 Months ago.

George practice log 3.

Posts: 287 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
I feel like I'm going to be the first practicioner ever to log over 20 logs.
So I'm starting this log with "I'm fucking over this shit" phase. I could take a wild guess with what that stage is but who am I kidding, I'm no Daniel Ingram! So I'm just going to stop being this awesome fucking dude that thinks he knows everything and just sit. I sat last night for 30 min. I'm tired, frustrated, angry, same old here. I'm just going to sit and see what doesn't happen. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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No you no Daniel Ingram. But Ingram was not spending his time "just sitting and waiting to see what happens" emoticon rather he was actively noting 1-10 sensations per second for the duration of his sits. He had faith in Mahasi Noting practice and did it no matter what. 

However there is no shame in taking a break from such practice. I find Dukkha is the greatest motivator once it gets unbearable and you realize there is no other salvation possible but to be with each and every arising moment (during you sitting practice of minimum 45 minutes). 

It pays off to sit with all that restless miserable disqusting fed-up-ness. It is very purifying. 

It's only your own mind after all. It's always there open to get to know it. 

Best wishes! 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks Dusko. You're 100 percent right. I'm just sitting, waiting and hoping for something to happen and getting upset. I will try harder on the noting front. In the difficult times it takes a lot of effort and I have to be willing to push on those days! AAA!

I sat for 35 min tonight, noting. The last 10 mins my head was hanging down and I was in a dream state, I was noting probably 1 every 2 seconds that last 10 min. Before that I wasn't doing too badly at 1-5 but I want to sit for at least 45 min. Fear, disgust, restlessness coming up around and around. Energy would come up and noting would get faster and then Energy would decrease and is slowing down quiet a bit.
I need to try harder, needed a bit of a wake up call, thanks again Dusko!
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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george
Thanks Dusko. You're 100 percent right. I'm just sitting, waiting and hoping for something to happen and getting upset. I will try harder on the noting front. In the difficult times it takes a lot of effort and I have to be willing to push on those days! AAA!

Papa is right. You are no Daniel nor I. If you are just sitting waiting for things to happen, then prepare to wait for a very long time! We're not Daniel because we haven't put in 18 hours a day that he did and just push!

I sat for 35 min tonight, noting. The last 10 mins my head was hanging down and I was in a dream state, I was noting probably 1 every 2 seconds that last 10 min. Before that I wasn't doing too badly at 1-5 but I want to sit for at least 45 min. Fear, disgust, restlessness coming up around and around. Energy would come up and noting would get faster and then Energy would decrease and is slowing down quiet a bit.
I need to try harder, needed a bit of a wake up call, thanks again Dusko!
>>want to sit for at least 45 min. Fear, disgust, restlessness coming up around and around

Then do it! Fight through the fear, disgust and all the rest. They are all just empty anyway. 

P.S. I had a banner day today emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Hm emoticon not sure "harder" is the way. This stuff can be hard as is and adding harder attitude might snap you. 

Why not do the noting aloud (or whisper aloud)? It really is a good way of staying in the game and if you do it 1-3 sensations a second there will be enough disembeding to get you going for the duration of your sit. 

Yes it can be miserable and just plain shit emoticon but still keep humble acceptance at the front and remember to relax the body. Tension can be created by too much effort so remember to just relax and also note it. 

When stuff is hard then maybe use words like "there is ... (look for some matter of fact experience ) ... hearing! There is ... (no rushing just gently looking to contact something matter of fact) ... touching, there iiiiis ... etc 
Hete speed is of no issue. 

Once you feel energy or clarity returns then just go 1-5 sensation per second again. 

Try and remember that mind terrain changes. It goes up and down and through mud and sandy sunny beach and fires of hell emoticon Adjust the speed accordingly. Also if very hard and much resistance is there speak out much louder the labels so you really hear yourself loud and clear. 

Of course others might have different suggestions. 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks so much Dusko and Sam! I am doing noting out loud! Then I zone out and stop. I have to catch the zoning out or fatigue before it happens otherwise it gets me. Tonight I'm sitting for 45 min, no matter what!!!! I've finished up work earlier and going to note for 45 min non stop. I was noting in the morning before work and then had to really concentrate. It's not the fear, misery, disgust that stops me, it's the fatigue. I think I'm waiting for the fatigue to lift when I sit. It's as if I ask myself "when is the energy going to come so I can concentrate". I'm not fully accepting the fatigue. Funnily enough that's when all the fear, misery, despair arise... thanks guys.

I haven't sat yet, but I know what I have to do. Full acceptance of whatever arises. That means noting and being with all sensations pleasant or unpleasant, accepting them fully. I have gone through this several times and I may have to go through this again and again until I can fully accept everything just as it is. Fatigue and all.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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: D Ok , time for some homework emoticon Check these videos please! 
Kenneth (has more short vids of great value)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1UK5_692eo 

Shinzen (priceless about pacing and using aloud noting etc )
https://youtu.be/StBTuX0tqU8
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Yay homework! thanks Dusko. I will watch it.

I sat for 55 min just then. Accepting everything as is, at least accepting for the first 40 min and then I started to space out and get sleepy. When I slip up and zone out for a moment I get frustrated. The more frustrated I get, the more effort I put into noting and the more tired I get. Yes I'm tired after work (maybe I get tired because I know I have to sit with shit) but at the start of the sit I was noting expectation, craving, fatigue & acceptance and I got into samadhi. This time I noted the pleasantness and it went away for a moment. Then I started dozing off the started to lose touch with what was happening, then I got frustrated again and like I said before it perpetuated itself into more effort and even more fatigue. I've never sat this long and well while tired though.

In my very first log although I never wrote it I had nights off when I was tired. Now I just sat for 55 mins.

Gentle relaxed precise noting and noting frustration if I slip up or zone out and continue with the gentle relaxed noting. Accepting everything fully, like it's there to stay. 

Just watched Kenneth, now I know why everyone just says note it. Because there's something you're not fucking noting!!!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Lovely emoticon 

​​​​​​​Yes gentle and humble , full of acceptance of this matter of fact experience emoticon 

Do not burn the candle from both sides emoticon 

Ah yes, emoticon that Concentration born out of Noting (clear comprehanding) the mind steam emoticon Its sweet , yet to be noted as per usual. 

Here you see that concentration doesn't need to be developed first so to do Vipassana later. These two can go together hand in hand. All you do is buy into that constantly changing mind stream emoticon (just while on the cushion and once timer goes off you give your self a big wet kiss and a well-done-slap-on-the-but and you do some other stuff in life, until the next session). 

Check that Shinzen video emoticon emoticon helped me a bunch! I have seen it at least 30 times. No kidding emoticon 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks Dusko. I have watched that shinzen video too and love it. I will watch it again and again.

Ok I wrote some stuff just then and it's silly. Currently reading the 5 spiritual faculties in Daniels book. I really need to read that book again.
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L J, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Nice stuff brother, your logs are really motivating me to get back to some pure 101 noting. Just sat 45 mins noting aloud after reading through your log and I feel better. We are in this together!
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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LJ thanks for your message, I'm happy my log is helping someone, it means a lot!

I woke up earlier this morning and thought I can sit. So I sat for over 50 min. Noting 1-5. Noting excitement, expectation, nervous tension, jitters, high energy, breath, fatigue, spacing out vibrations, low energy, sleepy. It was a great sit, constant noting despite the spaciness and fatigue. I just reminded myself throughout the sit to notice everything with humility and full acceptance.
I'm trying to balance my faith, energy and wisdom during a sit. Thank you and metta to everyone. 

Sitting tonight once again and I'm not tired. It's a Friday night after a long week at work and I'm fresh as a daisy. Still I will sit with every last ounce of humility & acceptance I have and note 1-5. 

I sat for 1 hour, noting 1-5. There was no fatigue at the start and throughout most of the sit.

There was expectation, wanting(butterflies in stomach), craving, waiting, frustration(glad I noticed that), tired, the usual twitches, itches, bodily pain at the start then went, craving samadhi, getting frustrated. Also a little zoning out, dullness and spacy not present vibrations, exiting the whole thing for a moment, noting resistance. Releasing effort every once in a while, questioning and asking is there effort, is there wanting progress? and checking in. I'm satisfied with that sit. I want to keep sitting like this, with as much humility and acceptance as possible. Like an open book. So a total of hour and 45 mins today of noting at 1-5. Thanks
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Ill echo others. You have rdeally come into your own in the Noting landscape. I was heavily influenced by the Papa too emoticon Keep going!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Best wishes emoticon 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks Dusko : )
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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So I sat again this morning, I managed 45 mins, noting 1-3 things that I was noting : difficult, hard, swampy (felt like I was going through thick stuff) , spacing out vibrations, frustration, desire for progress (is not actual progress), anger, doubt, irritated, arrogance, anger, pain, tension, relaxing body, humility, acceptance, and just when I felt I couldn't take any more, there was a wave of relief, ohhhhh, relief, pleasant, then spacing out again, tired.

I remind myself to be humble and accept everything with all my heart. Thanks to Dusko for consistently telling me this. Also reading the 5 spiritual faculties in Daniels book is absolute gold. I can't thank him enough for that. 

Thanks for following Sam and commenting, means a lot to know I have support. Lots of metta to you and everyone else.

I sat for another 30 min this evening. Noting 1-3 it was difficult, spacy vibrations, I started to note very fast just with yes, yes, yes. I became tired very quickly. So I had to tone it down a notch. Then I asked myself is there efforting? I looked for it in the body and the body was tense, bracing itself for impact. Then I just let go of it all and released it. That's it for today going to see a friend now. Tomorrow I will be back again emphasising acceptance, humility and balancing of energy. Thanks 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Today noting 1-5 for 1 hour. Things that were noted during sit : feeling, itches, pain, numbness, gaps in attention, spacy vibes(head and eyes), anger, frustration, fatigue, expectation, wanting samadhi, aversion, difficulty, going to breath in & out periodically, tingling, relief & ease, fatigue. Ended on fatigue and reiterated that complete acceptance and humility is needed for everything. That's all you have in that moment & that very sensation that arises and dissolves or the shifting of awareness to another object is showing you everything you need to know. Thanks 

It's more convienient to doubt and not try then to doubt, try and fail. If you can even call it a failure
George S, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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No failure, no success, just what's happening.
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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George S
No failure, no success, just what's happening.

Thanks George : )
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Fear is more intense when i wake up and the mind wants to proliferate ridiculous stories. For example
-this is happening because you did this
-You shouldn’t have done that because it’s causing this intense fear. 
-is it going to get worse if I continue?
-What if it does? What am I going to do?

​​​​​​​I will check in to my body and psychology to see if it’s becoming overwhelming and too much. So I’ll pay attention to :

- sleep patterns
- eating patterns 

make sure they’re responding the way they should.
-Also checking in if I am enjoying my work?
-Do I find pleasure in the things I love?
Right now everything is ok, I’m sleeping fine and I’ve got an appetite. So I’ll continue but I’ll be doing a single 45 min sit daily for now.

Also I don't know if it's actually fear or if it's my body just tensing up and resisting something. It's like my body is saying stop please stop and there are deep internal tensions. Anyway I will sit for 45 min noting 1-5 with acceptance and humility tonight. This tension teaches you to be humble. Thanks 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Tonight I sat for 45 mins noting 1-8. Things I noted were tingles, itches, twitches, breath in and out, slight pain in back, scratching, then noting got really fast, lots of energy, checking to see if I was efforting, then hit a brick wall, tired, spacy vibrations, fatigue, then complete spacing out (3 notable incidents), difficult, feeling yuk, hard, heavy, irritated, slow, exhausted, despair, fucking hating it(yes that was a note), slouching, then I said no, straightened up my back and kept going, heavy, fatigue, slouched again, straightened up, attempting to accept this shit, finished on fatigue and a fucking relief. Thanks 
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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george
Tonight I sat for 45 mins noting 1-8. Things I noted were tingles, itches, twitches, breath in and out, slight pain in back, scratching, then noting got really fast, lots of energy, checking to see if I was efforting, then hit a brick wall, tired, spacy vibrations, fatigue, then complete spacing out (3 notable incidents), difficult, feeling yuk, hard, heavy, irritated, slow, exhausted, despair, fucking hating it(yes that was a note), slouching, then I said no, straightened up my back and kept going, heavy, fatigue, slouched again, straightened up, attempting to accept this shit, finished on fatigue and a fucking relief. Thanks 

Wow! It seems like all over the map from one extreme to another. We all go through periods of hating it. As you did, just note it, as it is an empty thought. Great efffort!
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks Sam. I sat last night for 40 mins noting 0-3. There was a lot of resistance to sitting, I left home from work with the intention to sit at 6:30pm and I didn't sit until 11:30pm. It was terrible, lots of spacing out.

i sat tonight for 45 min noting 0-5. Itches, hearing, feeling twitches, slow, jerky, then started to get fassst, feeling relaxed and pleasant, slowing down, slow, spacy, hard difficult, aversion, pain, spacing out, hard, hate, aversion, want out, want to stop, checking time, 10 mins to go, despair, pain. Stopped at 45 min. Very painful, hard, lots of resistance but better noting then last night, less spacing out. Thanks 
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Hmm, possible Desire for Deliverance?
george, modified 3 Months ago.

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Thinking about where I am is a slippery slope for me Sam. I know I have to do note with acceptance 1-5 every sit no matter what. Tonight I do the same. Thanks 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Sat Tonight for 35 mins. Lots of  aversion and then almost fell asleep. 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

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Friday night I didn't sit, I fell asleep at 8:30 and it's now 8:30am Saturday morning. I have to keep going. 
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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george
Friday night I didn't sit, I fell asleep at 8:30 and it's now 8:30am Saturday morning. I have to keep going. 

Buddy, see my log. I haven't meditated since Wednesday. I am sleeping all the tiime and don't follow my own advaice. I plan to meditate soon today when my Starbucks comes.
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Hey Sam ok will do, thanks mate. Sat for 20 min Saturday night. Aversion is high, it's on another level, I have energy for other things but sitting and meditating, nope. Have to get used to this now. Thanks 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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20 min morning sit, noting 1-5 and then just switching off and I just stopped and went back to sleep. 

45 min evening sit, noting 1-5. More clarity. There still was some spacing out but not completely knocked out. I was noting mostly physical body sensations, that was keeping me afloat. Feeling, feeling, sukkha, pain, tension, sukkha, spacy vibes, fatigue, a lot of sexual imagery so focused on that and noted it. That felt yuk. Noted disgust. Then it switched to fatigue, focused and noted fatigue vibes. Ended up being pleasant in the end. Happy I was able to note for 45 min.

On another note the past 3 days I've only managed 1 hour total sit. There is a lot of craving. The mind wants to put energy into other things and doesn't want to sit. So many (mostly shit) ideas for projects coming up and the mind clings to it and I can't let go. Thankfully I semi let go for 45 min this evening. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Don't beat yourself up for having this aversion to sitting. 

It's ok. 

The mind is trying to ignore stuff and look elsewhere but what is right here. It's ok. 

The best motivator is when mind realizes that no matter what it does Dukkha follows suit emoticon Then a much stronger and honest resolve kicks in to to just stare at what is right now. 

​​​​​​​so it is ok. These things go up and down. Down and up etc 
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Papa Che Dusko
Don't beat yourself up for having this aversion to sitting. 

It's ok. 

The mind is trying to ignore stuff and look elsewhere but what is right here. It's ok. 

The best motivator is when mind realizes that no matter what it does Dukkha follows suit emoticon Then a much stronger and honest resolve kicks in to to just stare at what is right now. 

​​​​​​​so it is ok. These things go up and down. Down and up etc 

Right on Papa Che. First of all you should never beat yourself up for anything. Everyone has some form of aversion to sitting. The mind is always looking for the "Next Great Thing" to occupy itself. As Papa says Dukkha follows. Live now. Awaken now.
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks Dusko and Sam. I Sat for 30 mins just then. I tried to just be in the moment without noting and that didn't go well. Fatigue and sleepiness set in. Will resume the scheduled program of acceptance and noting 1-5 tomorrow as I let the fatigue set in tonight.
The mind wasn't satisfied yet again, not even satisfied when it's satisfied. Always looking for something that sparks interest, tirelessly ploughing through endless fields in the search for something. Does it just want to survive, or is it genuinely looking for rest?
George S, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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I would say that the mind evolved to improve our chances of survival, but in order to survive we need to get enough rest! It's a balancing act. You've got to do whatever you need to do to survive, but it's easy to get caught up in that and end up pushing yourself to do much more than you really need, not getting enough rest, and causing yourself and others a lot of unnecessary suffering (speaking from experience here!)

There's no clear cut answer. Everyone's needs and situation are different. It's a learning process and it continues through all stages of life as our situations change. The mind has a tendency to look for yes/no, either/or, black/white answers. That probably maximized our chances of survival at an earlier stage of our evolution, when we were faced with constant physical threats and had to make split second survival decisions – is this animal going to eat me, or can I eat it?

​​​​​​​But it seems like our brains haven’t caught up yet with the rapid advance in social complexity, so we still look at life as a series of life-or-death binary decisions when it no longer directly affects our chances of survival … householder or monastic? Career or contemplation? Work more and retire earlier (rarely happens), or work less and retire later (often ends up being earlier anyway). And then in retrospect you see that none of these decisions was really critical for your survival. Life has a habit of throwing up unforeseen events, making a mockery of our agonizingly thought out plans. Obviously you need to have a basic plan, but also an ability to adapt and trust that life often takes care of itself much more than we realize.

​​​​​​​The nice thing about meditation is you can observe all of this in real-time and see the effects when you play with the controls a little, realizing that it doesn’t have to be so dramatic. An hour less work maybe, an hour more meditation or rest. Just slowly figuring out a better balance between surviving, working, resting and meditating which works for you.
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks George. Yes I definitely agree the more you try to intervene with something that arises it just makes it a mess. That very intervening is a form of craving.
Anyway I haven't sat tonight, but I want to set an intention that I'm going to sit for 45 min noting 1-5 with gratitude and humble acceptance. 

Ok so I sat for 45 min noting 1-5. I hit the ground running, keeping it basic with physical bodily sensations, mostly noting feeling, heat (I was getting hot and had to take my T-shirt off) it's winter right now! Itches, ringing in ears, spacey vibes, relaxing body. It was fast, then started getting back pain, noted pain, unpleasant, spacy vibrations, slowing down, stopping, spacy, difficult, slow, heavy. Then after about 30min I got very spacy, complete zoning out, but I continued to sit anyway and noted aversion, craving, zoning out when I could. Thanks
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Sounds good. Can you visit my log. I need some help/support.
george, modified 3 Months ago.

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Hey Sam, I posted a reply in your Log, hang in there mate.

setting the intention for tonight's sit. Noting 1-5 with humble acceptance if its available that is. I currently don't feel tired, I have the energy and I feel like I have energy everyday after work. Although when I sit down the mind starts to space out. Anyway I can already feel the spacy vibes coming.
I feel like I should point out that when I was younger I was very absent minded, like I was dreaming all time or zoned out. Then at 18-19 when I started to have significant mental health issues, these issue really woke up. It was like I lifted my head from under water. So this zoning out is maybe particularly strong in me, I don't know. Throughout the day I notice how the mind just moves from this to that trying to find some joy and then when it does find that joy it clings to it! I feel like there is only craving, everything I do is because of craving. The logical side of me says YES! Craving is the source of suffering, I still don't think I can see it fully. I just see layers and layers of craving.

So I just sat for 45 min noting 1-5. Started slow with physical sensations, energy was good all throughout until maybe the last 5 min where I was tired and spacing out. Apart from itches, tingles, twitches, pain, fatigue, slow, heavy, craving, guilt came up, it kinda stopped me in my tracks, I noted stopping or "something" and resumed noting, not going into the content of the guilt. I'm spent now, that took up the rest of my energy. Peace and metta to all beings. 
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

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Thanks for the support.

Craving and desire were a problem today. THey have been a big problem in the past but endless attention and noting made them diminish to almost none these day. Have you tried concentration meditation for the spaciness?
George S, modified 3 Months ago.

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I remember times when I felt like the craving and suffering were endless. The good news is, there's only a finite amount of it stuck in there! So, if you can stay present with it (and so long as you are not feeding it too much) then it will start to abate at some point. Keep going, you're doing great!
george, modified 3 Months ago.

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Thanks guys. I'm very tired today, I had an argument with my dad which just drained me. I'm still going to set the intention to sit for 45 min noting 1-5. 
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

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I'll be looking for it emoticon
george, modified 3 Months ago.

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Last night sat for 35 min noting 1-5. Much of the same stuff. Frustration, fatigue, spacing out coming up. Tonight I'm tired but im going to rest a little and then sit for 45 min noting 1-5.

I tried to stay mindful throughout the day but when it comes to using power tools & design, I just let go and get really absorbed into it. I disappear for most of the day because I just think what needs to be done and then I do. Frustration comes in though when I stuff up. Im a lot more patient then I used to be and don't push myself too much though. I like to sing to songs on the radio that's playing so im singing a lot & there's also a big welding component to my job which I enjoy the most. A lot of the time I just shove ear plugs in and weld in silence and it's pleasant. No space for noting though, should I note while im welding? Anyway there's a mode that goes beyond noting and that's just being here and everything flows smoothly and naturally. Is this what I should be looking at doing throughout the day? Any input appreciated

i sat for 35 min. Disgust, dry reaching, Exhausted, frustrated, heavy, no energy
George S, modified 3 Months ago.

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Letting go and getting absorbed into the task at hand … disappearing into what needs to be done … enjoying music or plying your trade in pleasant silence … no space for thinking, just being here in the flow, smooth and natural …

This is how those old zen guys describe the state of enlightenment! If you lived the rest of your life this way, would you be suffering? What if meditation was just another part of your trade, done in noise or silence, frustration or peace, as conditions dictate?

Huang Po, On the Transmission of Mind

31. Q: From all you have just said, Mind is the Buddha; but it is not clear as to what sort of mind is meant by this 'Mind which is the Buddha'.
A: How many minds have you got?
Q: But is the Buddha the ordinary mind or the Enlightened mind?
A: Where on earth do you keep your 'ordinary mind' and your 'Enlightened mind'?
Q: In the teaching of the Three Vehicles it is stated that there are both. Why does Your Reverence deny it?
A: In the teaching of the Three Vehicles it is clearly explained that the ordinary and Enlightened minds are illusions. You don't understand. All this clinging to the idea of things existing is to mistake vacuity for the truth. How can such conceptions not be illusory? Being illusory they hide Mind from you. If you would only rid yourselves of the concepts of ordinary and Enlightened you would find that there is no other Buddha than the Buddha in your own Mind. When Bodhidharma came from the West he just pointed out that the substance of which all men are composed is the Buddha. You people go on misunderstanding; you hold to concepts such as 'ordinary' and 'Enlightened', directing your thoughts outwards where they gallop about like horses! All this amounts to beclouding your own minds! So I tell you Mind is the Buddha. As soon as thought or sensation arises, you fall into dualism. Beginningless time and the present moment are the same. There is no this and no that. To understand this truth is called compete and unexcelled Enlightenment.
Q: Upon what Doctrine (Dharma-principles) does Your Reverence base these words? -
A: Why seek a doctrine? As soon as you have a doctrine you fall into dualistic thought.
Q: Just now you said that the beginningless past and the present are the same. What do you mean by that?
A: It is just because of your SEEKING that you make a difference between them. If you were to stop seeking, how could there be any difference between them?
Q: If they are not different, why did you employ separate terms for them?
A: If you hadn't mentioned ordinary and Enlightened, who would have bothered to say such things? Just as those categories have no real existence, so Mind is not really 'mind'. And, as both Mind and those categories are really illusions, wherever can you hope to find anything?

32. Q: Illusion can hide from us our own mind, but up to now you have not taught us how to get rid of illusion.
A: The arising and the elimination of illusion are both illusory. Illusion is not something rooted in Reality; it exists because of your dualistic thinking. If you will only cease to indulge in opposed concepts such as 'ordinary' and 'Enlightened', illusion will cease of itself. And then if you still want to destroy it wherever it may be, you will find that there is not a hairsbreadth left of anything on which to lay hold. This is the meaning of: 'I will let go with both hands, for then I shall certainly discover the Buddha in my Mind.'
Q: If there is nothing on which to lay hold, how is the Dharma to be transmitted?
A: It is a transmission of Mind with Mind.
Q: If Mind is used for transmission, why do you say that Mind too does not exist?
A: Obtaining no Dharma whatever is called Mind transmission. The understanding of this Mind implies no Mind and no Dharma.
Q: If there is no Mind and no Dharma, what is meant by transmission?
A: You hear people speak of Mind transmission and then you talk of something to be received. So Bodhidharma said:

The nature of the Mind when understood,
No human speech can compass or disclose.
Enlightenment is naught to be attained,
And he that gains it does not say he knows.

If I were to make this clear to you, I doubt if you could stand up to it.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Noticing off cushion and noting on cushion is how I go about it. I find body sensations to be easiest to find through off cushion lifeing but others objects are also there of course. 
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Ok thanks Papa & George. Thanks from the heart.

On another note, I was driving the other day and as I lay here, I ask myself how can there be a mind? It's impossible, there is stuff just happening all the time and a body that senses stuff in its own way. The brain (this could be incorrect) collects those inputs and creates solid things and illusion of mind/self is created. I can't see or find my mind. 
George S, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Yup, that's pretty much the way it is ... no use stressing over things that don't really exist ​​​​​​​emoticon​​​​​
george, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Psychological stuff coming up. Feeling of being attacked, critised, doing something wrong. I put a lot of effort into activities and tasks so that I'm sure that I don't "stuff up". Way too much energy. This goes for my work & relationships. I want to make sure all bases are covered so that something unfavourable doesn't happen. I know this is a result of childhood trauma and having overly critical parents etc. I will continue to process this and notice it. Last night I sat with the need to control or craving and it was hard at the start but then everything realeased and I was in complete rest for 50min, I didn't note, Absoultely zero space out or fatigue, everything was just awake, it was truly magical. It was more restful then 8 hours of sleep. Tonight I will sit again. 
Sam Gentile, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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The pull of pyscological stuff coming from childhood events & trauma can be strong. All I can say is do no not resist. Let it come out of your subconciousness during meditation and if it gets overwhelming surely use a talking therapist to get through it.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Long one tonight, need to get stuff off my chest, samadhi really brings shit up!!

So I didn't sit on Sunday and Monday. I sat for 30min Tuesday night & I'll sit tonight.

Really interesting psychological stuff coming up. I put a lot of effort into the things I do, way too much effort. I don't want to fail, the words "don't stuff up" always come up because it's what my dad said to me after a report in highschool. Ever since then ive carried the burden of "don't stuff up".  Before any of the deep work I've been doing, whenever I'd commit myself to a task I'd try to the point that I get heart palpitations, and I can't breathe. Really damaging behavioural pattern.
Thankfully now most of the time I'm able to do things with so much more clarity, peace, equanimity it's amazing. It really blows my mind how much of the damaging behavioural patterns are dissolving because of the work I'm doing.
This behavioural trait reared it's ugly head on Saturday, Sunday and Monday. My dad needed help installing a shower screen in a newly renovated bathroom so I thought I'd give it a shot. I'd never done it before and we didn't have plans for the installation but I still insisted. Well didn't I walk into a bundle of mess. He said many times "if you can't do it then I'll get someone else". That brought on frustration, I felt challenged. "You think I can't do it hey? Well I'll show you!!!" I was very stressed and felt like fucking shit, to the point where I was like this is really bad, what are you doing to yourself? Tuesday after majority of the job was done, I stepped back and I asked my parents if they were happy? My mum said how can I not be happy, you care so much for our shower screen, I don't care how it turns out. My Dad then said I knew you could do it. I then realised that's all I wanted to hear for my whole life, I heard it, finally, it sank in for the first time ever in my life. I questioned, how many other times have my parents said that statement yet I never really HEARD IT, it never went in. What changed though, did my parents finally come to their senses and finally show me some gratitude or did something in me dissolve? Did I finally give myself a pat on the back for something I myself have done. The guys at work always say "man, your work is amazing." And I'm like yeah it's not bad, I then go on to pick all the things that I don't like about it. But now I can most of the time just appreciate just doing a task. because I'm letting go of the impression "don't stuff up". The "don't stuff up" impression I think to a degree became "you ARE a stuff up no matter what you do." So I hated doing anything because it was always a big undertaking for me, in particular doing things for my parents because I thought I was a failure and tried soooo hard to not be. 

Now my work is better then ever, not because of skill level but because I'm not carrying as much of the "don't stuff up" impression! I do things with more peace and mindfulness. This though I've found can be a double edge sword. You say yeah I can do this and I can do that and I can help this person and I can help that person but then you take on too much again!! So despite me being able to take on more "stuff" doesn't mean I should push myself all the time. I really have to put the brakes on, that includes having to tell people my opinion on whatever the fuck is happening, it's just another way I'm trying to avoid failure or reinforcing the old behavioural impression of "don't stuff up". Having said all that, this message took a lot of effort. Breathhhheeee
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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I sat for 45 min, noting 1-3. Kept it gentle. I did zone out a little but it was mostly spacy vibrations that I was aware of. There's so much happening I can't find the energy to write it all. Stuff mostly to do with ex girlfriend now. I still remember her mobile number by heart and it was 15 years ago. Lots of old feelings now feeling like new feelings. Really weird

Fucking hell, my mind is being blown right now. So much insight into behaviour. It's eye opening.
Sam Gentile, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Sounds great in a way. You are bringing up hurtful memories from the past which is good. Can you handle it? Do you or think you need talking therapy at this point to work throuh it all?
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Yeah I think I can handle it and continue practicing. If it becomes too much I will organise to see someone, but I think it's all manageable.

Just woke up. There is doubt, guilt, shame, fear, "don't stuff up" impression is there. 
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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thanks for publishing your practice. Its giving me a really good idea of what mine will be like once I'm ready to start.

I have a question, what does "noting 1-3" mean? I know the noting techinque, but what do the numbers mean?
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Hey mate no problem, I'm glad it helps. 1-3 means one to three sensations per second. This changes quite a bit in my sit. Sometimes I'm not noting at all and I'm just aware of everything and then other times it's a slog just one thing a second. 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Practice has been very slack this week. I'm not sitting tonight, I don't want to
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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I simpathyse. I've been bordering a headache all day from trying to practice insight at all times that I can.

But don't give up! If 45 minutes is too much right now, do 20. Heck, set yourself for just sitting on the cuchion and trying for 5 minutes. 5 minutes of writhing boredom is bearable, and at least you will keep the habit of practicing for today!

I'll try that too right now, good luck!
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks John. I sat this morning for 45 min. Out loud noting then it was just noticing & being awake. Self is a tricky thing, trying to solidify stuff, craving, not a lot of spacing out but at the end there was fatigue and had to note out loud periodically throughout sit.
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

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I'm happy for you George! Your persistence will definitely yield fruits.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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So you know how I've been talking about my ex from 15 years ago and how I've been dreaming of her etc. Well she just contacted me saying she has an overwhelming need to talk to me. I haven't spoken or seen her for 5 years. The last time we saw each other was by coincidence. She is married with 2 beautiful children and a great loving husband, I don't have any desire to destroy that. I just don't want her to suffer needlessly and I want her to get stuff off her chest so we can move on. I don't know what I'm talking about. No I know what I'm talking about. I'm ready to let go of her, but she's hanging on. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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If there are beings out there overwhelmed with thoughts about their ex girlfriends and thoughts about what that might mean, may their experience come to me fully, may I experience it in their stead, without resistance, so they are relived from
it so they can easier recognize their true nature and awaken. 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks papa, I'm currently talking to her as we speak. There's a lot of unresolved shit with her and everything went downhill after her until now. Thank you thank you thank you. Metta to you
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Oh emoticon just in case it was not clear emoticon I was just suggesting YOU maybe do that Tonglen practice. Im not taking your expereice onto me emoticon 

Best wishes to both you and her and who ever else might be involved in this Samsaric Drama-Dhamma emoticon 

​​​​​​​Take care mate!
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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I think that's exactly what I'm going to do today. Followed with some metta. Thanks papa
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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I sat for 45 min, awake quite effortlessly, little out loud noting. Did the tonglen practice as suggested by papa. Then I asked for everyone to leave me alone while I rest and everything was quiet for 5-10 min. Then my ex came back and said I can't go I'm staying here and my family said I'm staying too. So I said ok, I can't escape, so be it, stay. I realised I was trying to control who I love and who loves me. I can't help that! So I'm letting go of that and just falling in love again. I haven't had sex in ~5 years not that it's a bad thing but I'm not expressing intimate love for another when I want to. It's now the first time I've fallen in romantic love after 12 years and it's very powerful for me because I've suppressed it for so long.

You may ask why would you supress romantic love? Well I have/had pathological doubt surrounding whether if I really was in romantic love with someone. People always said it feels special, and when I saw women who made me feel love i always said "not special enough" so it can't be love or can it? doctors call it ocd but It's just fucking doubt, that's all it is, ocd = doubt and this pathological doubt is a result of a trauma experience or experiences which can be dissolved. I know it can be dissolved because it's happening right now. I'm sure in myself now, more then ever I can trust my judgment, no doubt anymore and if I make a mistake it's because I made a mistake. Now I can fall in love without doubting it. A miracle.
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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You seem to be struggling with love. There seem to be two parts to it: 1) the sensations of romantic love 2) the desire for companionship and a relationship.

I'll tell ya, in my opinion, you should not define love in terms of how strong or special the sensations of love are. Whats more, separate the definition of love completely from any sensation you might have. Sensations come and go, and they can be hella difficult to understand and contextualize. Before having my first partner at 27, I "fell in love" 26 times. Each one of those felt overwhelming, obsessive, and incredibly attractive. But after so many incredibly intense experiences, it was obvious that none where special. Each one was super similar to the one before, equally intense, equally seductive.

I never felt that intense attraction to my current partner (that attraction is called limmerence, btw). I specifically chose them because, while I liked them all right, and I admired them and thought highly of them, I was not head over heels for them. I was sick of the limmerence, honestly, and wanted to be in control of myself, to enjoy myself in a relationship, instead of being washed away by a maelstrom of emotions.

Heh, sorry for regurgitating my biography like that. What I meant to say that feelings are not special. If anything, your actions and the current state of your relationship become special when you make them. Value the loves of your life not by the feelings you got for them, but by the kind of person they are, the kind of person you are around them, and the kind of relationship you make together.

Also, don't put love on a pedestal as some ideal to aspire to that will only happen once in your lifetime. That makes you doubt the truth of your feelings, and doubt the value of the relationship you have with the person. Limmerence does not make this person valuable, who they are and how they treat you makes them valuable. And the love you have for them is much more than the limmerence you start up with. For me, love is at least the kindness you give them, and the kindness they give you back.

Hope that rambling helps.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Thanks for that John, it helps clear things up. I'm not a fan of limerance either it's like you said it's very intense and kind of throws you. It's probably something I will not look for in a future partner. The thing is I don't want to take the "specialness" away from my ex. I don't want her to feel like our love wasn't special, she wants to see and hear that from me and I'll give her that (without physical interaction).
I feel like she is looking for Devine love in herself though but will not force that opinion on her. For now I'm going to let her know that I love her. If she is content with that and she can carry out her duty as a wife and mother with her current family then I'll leave it otherwise I'll suggest to her or try to show her that her thirst for love is the thirst for the ultimate love and not me. 
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

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uff, you've found yourself in a hard spot. I am happy that you are trying to take the better road with this situation. To hear her and help her in what way you can, without compromising your integrity, without doing something that would hurt you both.

Daniel Ingram said several times in his book that meditation, and being enlightened, does not necessarily make you a better person. You need to train in morality apart from training in insight and concentration. I think your choice is the morally correct one, and I am happy that you are taking this chance to practice it.

Good luck in dealing with the hard things in life. If you keep posting here, I'll keep reading.
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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It doesn't seem fair on you.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Yeah I think I maybe overexerting myself again. After all, when I dreamt of her, I questioned if I should contact her and said no to myself and moved on. Only now that she has contacted me have I decided to continue talking and possibly meet. So technically I don't need this, and digging up crap is just more crap I have to deal with. Just because I can deal with more shit doesn't mean that I should be. It was in the past and I'm a different person and I'm looking for a partner who operates differently to her. Why should I make things harder for myself? 
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Yes exactly!

It's hard when you have strong feelings, but it might help to consider her motivations as well.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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George S thanks mate. I really needed you there. I'm going to see my therapist. This is really overwhelming and way over my head. I went and saw her. I asked her what her intention was. She said she is acting out by how she feels and that she's not really conscious of an intention. She said she loves me. I asked her if she is willing to divorce her husband and be with me & it looks like she doesn't want to do that. I then asked her what do you want from me then? I've told you I love you but we can't be together so let me be. She said she can't not have me in her life. I can let her go, she can't let me go. I said to her it's her pain she has to let go of, (pain of not having me in her life). I feel her pain and love, it's the most intense thing I've ever felt. I can't believe that someone can love another human with that intensity. She is genuinely in love with me and it makes me fall in love with her over and over again. It just feeds itself perpetually. I don't know what's happening I'm really stumped here so I'm calling my therapist who is a hakomi specialist and somatic specialist who also has a deep meditation practice of her own.
I'd also like to apologise if this all sounds like a big shit cliche and people are throwing up when they hear this. Hahaha. It's just stuff coming up but I think it's important stuff.

I should also point out that we did not act morally in this encounter and we ended up kissing. No sex or touching of down stairs department, nothing like that. Several kisses and hugging. I also shake uncontrollably after kissing her or talking to her. Its very hard to stop it, I really have to close my eyes and breathe it's so intense.
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Maybe you are in love with the unattainable ideal of each other? Regardless, if one of you doesn’t go cold turkey then it’s going to end up in a fairly predictable place! I’m definitely not one to judge in this department, just reflecting what I see from my limited perspective with my own projections thrown in. I think you’re right though, there’s some important stuff going on for you with this dynamic, which is not ultimately about her.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Yes it is about me and not her. It's about me being able to fall in love again. Anyway I fell in love and broke my heart at the same time. Fun times. I've had the feeling of heart break before but this is torture and I'm doing it to myself. Ok I cut ties with her.

This is a big lesson in setting boundaries for myself and also falling in love with available women. I don't really have the faith that I can bounce back but it will come.
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Yeah, a lesson is the best thing you can get out of this. I'm glad you contacted your therapist, you need someone who understands you and who can respond faster than we strangers on the internet can.

This might sound harsh, but it might be good if you continued to meditate even in the middle of all this chaos. Even if only as a time to be free from trying to react correctly to what you feel, when you can just observe without judgement.

And this next thing might sound downright cruel, so I hope it helps more than it harms, but I don't think you can bring happiness to each other with things as they are. Pleasure, probably, but the direction where you take off with her will probably be fraught with guilt and conflict. One that will probably will not yield a happy relationship. Please reflect on this, as this is the foundation of this path to release from pain and suffering. Yielding is not a release but a chain, the only release comes from keeping yourself from giving in, and working on what you know will give you lasting happiness.

I will not judge you, whatever direction you take. We'll all probably keep advicing you and listening to you. It is easy to practice this kindness with such low stakes as us internet strangers have. So, fear not for our judgement, but for your happiness, for your wellbeing. See more than the step in front of you, see the whole path. And make the desition that is kindest, to you, to her, to the people in your life, and the people in her life.

I hope I did not sound like I did not see that you are indeed pushing for the moral and kind option, you obviously are. I guess I wanted to give you a few arguments you can stick into your head so next time you are tempted by the more painful option, you will remember that it IS the most painful option, even if it does not look like it, and you will take the road that will give you most happiness, even if it looks as being the most painful.

Good luck friend. And strong willpower.
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

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Also, thank you for trying your best to be a good person. It can be soul ripping work, but its worth it. And thank you for posting this for us. More than just being juicy gossip, it helps me think about what would I do given this situation. When I think of that, and of how indescribably painful it is to have your heart broken, I realize that your struggle to do whats best is a brave thing. A thing I admire of you. Whatever the result, I think you are doing well
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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Tonight I sit for 45 min noting 1-5 with complete acceptance and humility.

I'm sending out my deepest prayers and warm wishes to my ex partner. I hope she finds peace, contentment and enjoyment in her life with her current partner and children. May she be courageous and have the equanimity to face life's challenges. Metta to you and everyone else. 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Last night I managed 30 min. Noting 1-3, feeling, crying, seeing, zoning out, falling asleep, straightening the body, difficult.

The past few days has really thrown me and suffering has been very high. I'm doing this to myself, Im starting to see something though that has never really come up before. I make assumptions on how people are feeling and then take it upon myself to try and help them to the detriment of myself. This is happening time and time again. There are images of little young George who's scared and wants to help people. There is a lot of craving surrounding these sensations I have to just keep noticing them.
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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These things you have realized of yourself, they are useful. They are wisdom, even if not of the insight type.

Do as you are doing (good job on that). Notice when your cravings arise, and if its easy, try to see how the craving hurts you. If its hard, remembering that craving hurts is good enough.

What you said, about little George trying to help people, Daniel Ingram said something about that. Every action comes from compassion, from the wish to alleviate suffering, either for ourselves or others. That compassion is a gift, even when the ways that we TRY to act on it are so misguided that they cause pain instead. From what I've read, the more you learn about the true nature of suffering, the more effective that gift of compassion will be. And from personal experience, the less eager your compassion is (without loosing on its strength) the more effective it will be too. Patience makes us more effective.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Everything is so beautiful and shakes me to my core. I'm deeply moved by everything and I can't stop crying. I was very much like this when I was a little boy 5 years old. Very sensitive.
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

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That seems good. I think I remember the buddha holding up a leaf and saying "the green of this leaf is a great wonder of this world". Seeing beauty, and being shamelessly moved by it, seems like a helpful thing for healing and growth.

Still, keep realizing that those things you perceive are just feelings. They are subject to the three characteristics: they don't last, they don't give lasting relief, and they are not you. Bask in the beauty of the world, accept its fleetingness, and note the feelings without holding on to them.

At this point, you are probably further ahead than me. I'll keep trying to give advice, but take it with a grain of salt. The only thing I am sure is true is that you will keep reaping rewards if you keep practicing, so keep it up! : )
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

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I don't think it's that actually. I think I'm more guilty that I have to cut ties with people because the relationship between us becomes difficult for me. I want to help her and I can't, that's why I'm crying. 

Tonight I will sit noting 1-5, for 30min I guess. I'll try and sit longer though. Thanks John for your words : )
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

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Thats heartbreaking. Its painful, to want to help someone and not be able to. Even when its the best desition, its still painful. And that pain feels unfair, and it is. But I guess you have to live with that unfairness if you want a good life.

I'm glad you are still practicing through all this. And thank I'm glad I've been helpful, if only in a small way. Keep us updated! : )
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Thanks John. Ok I couldn't stand it any longer I was a wreck. I had to get to the bottom of it all. I texted her and told her that it was unfair that I opened up about my whole life up until this point, positive and negative. Yet when I asked her how things were going she never opened up fully. I knew something was up with her because she mentioned she suffers from insomnia and buries herself in her work. Also if she "loves" me then risk being vulnerable around me and open up. So I questioned her relationship with her husband and she finally spat it out saying she is not feeling any passion with him and that she's just going through the motions in life. I thanked her for her openness and sincerity. I told her that there was nothing to be ashamed of if you're looking for something that you're lacking in your current partner. It just becomes very difficult when your intention is not clear!! People get hurt and I told her that I felt used. I said to her I was a little angry at her but more upset at myself because I allowed my emotional boundaries to be crossed. Anyway I recommended she go and see a therapist as am i and she listened to what I had to say and took it onboard. Im very happy that I semi skilfully navigated through this shit heap of a mess. I feel like a planet has been lifted off my chest and shoulders. I've been crying for 2 days and lying down in the shower in a heap because I felt so helpless.

​​​​​​​After all that I sat for 45 min noting, I didn't note out loud as much this time though, I wanted it to be gentle so I could relax some what. No crying, happy, joyful, smiling, there was spacy vibrations etc but it was a restful sit. 

Its all about honest, open, clear communication. Saves a lot of heartache! 
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

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Very skillful emoticon

I think your insight about boundaries is important. I hesitated to suggest it at the time, but I got the sense she was manipulating your feelings (pressuring you to express your love for her). I might be wrong, but if that’s the case then it may be worth discussing with your therapist (or maybe you already are). There can sometimes be a template for manipulative patterns from childhood.

I’ve been both manipulated and manipulating in my relationships with women, and I know that in my case this goes back to my relationship with my mother. A lot of the time she was unconsciously using me to try to make herself feel better, so I had to be overly sensitive to her feelings at the expense of my own. When I started dating that translated into a strong feeling that I had to tell women what I thought they wanted to hear. Superficially attractive but long-term problematic! I’m not saying your situation is the same, just an example of the kind of thing that can be going on under the hood.

I agree with what John says about romantic love vs companionship. It’s important to have some chemistry of course, but friendship and a shared sense of humor is more important over the long run as far as I can see!
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/30/21 Recent Posts
Nice catch! Noticing that there was more to it than what appears was a good call. Often people come to us thinking we are the solution to all their problems. It looks like its about us, but its really about them and their issues. Even with the risks involved, listening to her needs and giving a practical recommendation to what to do was a skillfull thing to do. It will be even more skillfull to START by listening to them next time someone comes and tells you you are their hopes and dreams and all they need. Postponing your move until you have as much info as you can get is skillfull.

Speaking of skilfull, Its normal to get some shit on us while we clean the pile of dung that suddenly dropped in our doorstep. The experience teaches us how to avoid smearing ourselves a little more next time. If you want a dharma book that is all about piles of dung, I recommend "who ordered this truckload of dung" by ajahn brahm. Its wise and easy to read, and many of the lessons on life are immediately applicable.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 287 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
Ok upon waking up this morning there is fear. Currently accepting and feeling it in the body. I want to try and describe it. I feel an unpleasant sensation in my throat and solar plexus it's as if I'm throwing up internally & there is a pleasant sensation that happens in the tummy. Like a dissolving?
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/30/21 Recent Posts
I often feel fear in the back of my neck and in my stomach. In my neck there is a coldness, and in my stomach there is a sinking sensation. There is also a general desire to run away or constrict into the fetal position.

Curious that you would have pleasent sensations with fear. I'll pay attention next time. I don't often feel fear in my life, so I'll just remember a scary story and sit down in the dark XD
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 287 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
George S thanks a lot for your reply! That's what's been happening to me all my life! I feel like most people, at least people I know including myself are very manipulative. My dad always puts the guilt trip thing on me but I don't bite anymore. I'm very stern when my boundaries are crossed and he will start saying things like "see I knew you don't want to help me, how can you not help your father." I just shrug my shoulders. Before I used to get angry and I still do but I'm not lashing out completely.

My mother on the other hand is a very hard worker and will do anything for her family, to the detriment of herself. So I take it upon myself (I can't believe what I'm typing here) to help her and I feel guilty for not being able to take that pain away from her. If I have a sunday in bed resting and meditating (single life is good) she would say do you think that's healthy? I'd say YES!!! You need to do it more!! Anyway now I see what's happening with my intimate relationships!! To the detriment of myself I always try to help them (even when they don't ask for it) and when I can't I feel absolutely shattered and I cut ties with everyone because I feel helpless to save someone. I also do this with some male friends. I always wanted to be a superhero for this reason! Now I know it's not my responsibility but I can guide people and steer them in the right direction using skilful application of my intention! Holy fuck I can't believe I just said all that!
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 2026 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
WUTYL talks about obsessive helping as a kind of hungry ghost behavior. Obviously there’s much worse things to be addicted to (!) but there’s still a guilt-compulsivity dynamic going on, and unintended consequences and suffering. If you feel up to it you could maybe try one of those reactivity type meditations where you visualize (or remember) someone in distress and your superhero helper reaction, and observe what’s going on in your body while that plays out. 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 287 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
Fucking awesome. I'm doing it tonight! On another note when I talk I feel like I'm not talking, is this speaking from emptiness? Thanks George. 

I think it's a no self experience the talking without anyone there talking. As far as I know emptiness is different. 

I sat for 45 min, I didn't note, I just sat there awake. I was thinking then it got concentrated, relaxed, peace, calm and just to update last nights sit I really felt over joyed. It's like it's too much love.

This morning there is fear again and a sickly feeling in the stomach. 
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/30/21 Recent Posts
Hm, I've had the experience where, if I try to perceive the exact moment that I do some thing, I can't pinpoint it, and the action becomes blurry and undefinable. If I pay attention to what I'm saying, I stop feeling like I am speaking. But then my mind goes blank and I don't know what to say anymore.

Maybe you could try to investigate that sensation of not feeling like you are talking. It feels like it has potential for insight.
Sam Gentile, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 1345 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts

I sat for 45 min, I didn't note, I just sat there awake. I was thinking then it got concentrated, relaxed, peace, calm and just to update last nights sit I really felt over joyed. It's like it's too much love.

There it is - the moment! You don't need noting, It was like3 Dzogchen - just sitting with the momentt and not fuckimg with it. Leting the concentration, relaxation, peace and calm just be. Non-effort.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 287 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
So upon waking up this morning there is fear but my heart is really in love. We have this family cat that relentlessly follows me around and sleeps on my bed. She will never let up I cry and fall in love with how much this cat loves me. I'm shaking again, in my legs. This reminds me of what Daniel m Ingram says about (I forgot what it was) but this makes an A&P look like dry toast. It's almost too much, I feel like I'm imploding and exploding at the same time

wow I just realised what synchronicity is!!! I always thought it was seeing 11:11 on your phone but it's a thing that you see in everything

so maybe this is an a & p. I guess time will tell.

this is all still mind
John Doe, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/30/21 Recent Posts
Your pulling back to reality is the skillfull choice. You will know where you are long after you've passed that point. For now, it is all still mind, and what you must do is still the same: noting and seeing the three characteristics.

Dude, that cat is your emotional anchor. Love the hell out of that cat. Heck, if you want to practice loving kindness, do it with the cat. Not in a grabby "I need this cat" kinda way, of course, more in a "I'm grateful to you, cat, for the love and attention you give me. I'll take advantage of the time we spend together while we can" kinda way.

Keep up the good work!

btw, I love the phrase "Its still all mind". I'm using it now.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice log 3.

Posts: 287 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
Thanks John for the guidance very true. This hungry ghost thing has been me all my life. Tonight I'll sit for 45 noting 1-5. 

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