The 10th Jhana

Brandon Michael Rohe, modified 4 Months ago.

The 10th Jhana

Posts: 15 Join Date: 6/1/21 Recent Posts
This is post isn't actually about me, my attainments, or against any good dharma. I'm simply here to describe the next evolutionary step from nirodha samapatti. If you've attained NS, likely at least several times, you'll find yourself stuck. That was it. The highest Nibbana. 

Well what is Existence still doing here afterwards? What's the point? Life and Existence are all about evolution when perceived properly. An anagami or arahant is pretty much done from one point of view. The point of view that 9th Jhana is the highest is what gives rise to this, but a true yogi will still feel the Divine pulling him or herself closer. Not many have the neurochemistry to take it any further while living. 

The next step is for the yogi is always Union. To yoke and yoke and yoke until both Divinity and the mundane are inseparable. One who has attained NS can begin to use all explanations and knowledge to further understand Nibbana and why it is "there" (where you went during NS) and what is "here." The 10th Jhana is Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Intelligence becoming a living cessation as your human self in the nonexistent present moment. It is neither existence nor nonexistence. Every sensate particle and any gaps between sensations become true cessations experienced at a level so small calling them atomic would be way too big. 

Infinite geometrical manadalas might be inescapable in this state whether the eyes are open or closed. That experience is not technically cessation, but cessation is what is having that experience and ultimately cuts it into nonexistence. This is done with concentration so strong on every micro sensate reality effortlessly that one blink of the eyes is an NS. NS is not some rare state. NS is that Tao which is programmed into every part of sensate reality. NS is the operating system which creates phenomena allowing themselves to point always back to its origin in NS. Nibbana is here and now and forever inescapable. Good luck going back to a normal routine at a 9-5 white collar job after this. You will have too much energy and vitality to contain in a rigid system like that. Too much authenticity. Too much expression. You'll need to find work or material means through very flexible means. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: The 10th Jhana

Posts: 5981 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
So... without ever having had cessations before, you have now experienced NS over and over again within a short time span and found something beyond that? As awesome as it sounds, I would double check for psychosis just in case. I see you also left your phone number for Daniel. That's great. But just in case he doesn't see it, maybe write him an email as well. Take care and be well! 
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Ni Nurta, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: The 10th Jhana

Posts: 778 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Infinite consciousness... don't we already have this mind state?
It looks like you took 5th jhana for NS and 6th for "10th". Given how mind actually works it is not unreasonable to imagine you toned down consciousness enough for it to match descriptions of NS (in your head at least). Which by itself would actually be quite a feat. People tend not to even try to do it or anything too crazy... I guess no one told them they are allowed to try that XD In your case it seems to be part of ongoing delusion you went from not having path to 3rd/4th and now you are beyond Arhat emoticon So no real insight except experiencing some weird but also fancy stuff. Nothing good will come from that kind of thinking. At best you will walk around with smurk in your face and irritate people around you.

It also look like you have manic episode, otherwise called A&P. I would recommend calming down and not clinging to any experience. This 'NS' of your if it works like I think it does (which is pretty much how real NS works as well... but I do not want to go in to war path with whole community so I won't be talking about it emoticon) it can be useful to rest your nervous system and avoid depression. Just concentrate on rest and not other crazy experiences. Depleting dopamine in your brain and tiring dopamine related systems doesn't feel good at all. More like Hell.

What else to say...
Do not mind Linda. She is a good gal but she can be very mean. Best not to be on her black list emoticon
Also have fun and do not overdo it. Nervous system can make it seem super awesome and pleasant up to the last moment until it crashes and then Hell opens and swallows you whole. Should that happen all your awesome insights will be presented to you in very different light. You probably do not want that. I assume you do not ;) The true insight is to know how much fun is still safe and when and where to stop and walk the other way and when you do overdo it to interpret what happened before, during and what you can (or rather should) do and not do after. I mean it like not overreact when you crash, do not call for psychiatrist, do not make mess of it. Best if no one knows. You can say you have bad week or month but put fake smile on your face and carry on. Also after it passes to not be overly depressed you were not next buddha. Shit happens when you deal with abusing neurons and their faith in their assessment of mind as a whole can change drastically after that. If you know what you are doing - and you won't know until you have these experiences for years and know what they actually mean! - then nothing will bring you down. If you do not then you will bring yourself down. Also you can alternatively learn absolutely nothing should that happen and have these cycles of ups and downs for the rest of your life and many people, even those who claimed 4th path do that... which is ridiculous.

But anyways, I am just putting reasonable advices based on my experiences. Assumptions as to what is happening to you are currently as they are and they are subject to change, that depends on your responses and other posts. Also it might happen you somehow intuitively will know what to do and won't need them - then great. If not then keep those things I said to you in mind: never overreact, that is the most important life wisdom.

And last set of advices: in order for people to care what you have to say you need to provide story. It needs to not be of great success but of failure and long struggle in overcoming difficulties. When you come in like what sounds like "hey I jumped from no path to 3rd path " and next day "hey, I am beyond level of Buddhism now!" then people will ignore you. Note: I see you did not claim any path, which is actually a good sign.

Still imho it would be good if you posted from time to time things you know. It is good for putting things in your head. I mean talking to real people, even if they will ignore you you still know people will read it and you will have much higher quality cognitive processes going on than when you are mulling through this stuff in your head. I write a lot of things here for this exact purpose. And maybe someone might find it useful, even if by merely relating to it or because it is fun for them. If you did experience something while being in your altered states of consciousness and found it interesting then chances are it will be interesting to someone also. Just try to use normal language, not some new age'y pumped pathos. Use language you use in your head. Some people will say they do not understand, ignore them. Effort needed to use their language is not worth it and once you start changing language the meaning chances to unreadable mess and even if someone will then say they now understand you will know they can't because it doesn't make sense to you when stated like that. Hopefully you get what I said. Some people will understand you because they are more flexible with their dictionary, even redefining existing words just for the purpose of understanding a person.

And BTW. I do have unitive experiences of my own, I call it 'Vajra Samadhi®' (R symbol means I registered it in LogOS under me - it fits me and my Bodhisattva goals nicely) and over the years I validated it or rather it validated itself. No mandalas, no nothing, but it works exactly as I immediately knew it will. My models are batsheet crazy and I am interested in hearing yours. No matter what it is it might be interesting because when you change some parameters in your brain interesting stuff usually comes out. Doesn't mean you have actual solid insight yet but ideas might be good emoticon Actually interesting stuff comes out of every single person I met, from time to time at least, so my ears are always in samadhi so they do not miss anything. Just be persistent and try to talk about it with us here, even if some people who are dogmatic (somehow this is a thing here on DhO despite welcome page stating clearly dogma is like really bad :huhemoticon will be mean to you and say you should give up. And again have fun and I wish you very good days and passable nights ;)
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: The 10th Jhana

Posts: 5981 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Mean? emoticon Ha, a least that's a change from being accused of being too nice. 

To clarify, psyhosis is a real issue in the dharma and doesn't preclude spiritual development, even though it can obscure it. I have seen it happen live when layers of construction fell away too fast. I wasn't using it as an insult. I really would check it if it were me, or at least I hope I would. I have checked in with people on occasion to get some feedback. 
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Ni Nurta, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: The 10th Jhana

Posts: 778 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Gosh, that came out wrong emoticon
Nothing personal Linda.
You know, you have this magic red button that makes all problems disappear... so you have to be mean, sometimes ;)

As for psychosis you are right to raise this concern. Though imho better than "checking" anything it is better to just calm down. It is hard to objectively assess nature of BM's experiences but if it is mostly A&P like then the more he continues pushing his nervous system the worse DN he will get and then especially at Fear nana it will definitely look like psychosis. Even then if he can calm down and pretend before other people he is fine I would say not to raise any alarms. People with problems are those who are panicking and making their problems other people problems. He read MCTB, he was warned about the risks, now it is up to him to decide if he will have psychosis or just DN. Yup, I am all for letting people continue having free will ;)

Also it doesn't need to be A&P necessarily. Still, even in the best of cases it is expected some DN will follow but then there should be definitely nothing to worry about. When ground energy changes some stuff will be brought to the surface and it might be good opportunity to add it up to general experience to make it seem like even bigger attainment rather than ignore it. Then it is typical clinging, tired neurons and Dukkha Nanas stuff. Though in case this is not the focus of experience it is easy to let go of this stuff... unlike normal A&P where stuff is the predominant cause of all effects. Then it is hard to be dispassionate toward things that just made you feel like you are on top of the world.

In my post I also worried about 50-50 case whereabouts. It is at times hard to tell during DN what is the good and what is bad. One should not panic and jump to conclusions in general sense but also when it comes to experiences. Some are at times skillful even when surrounded by a lot of unskillful ones and when skillful are avoided along (or instead :huhemoticon unskillful ones then that isn't very helpful. Usually this happens when people panic hence my disenchantment with the idea and going to see psychologist when you experience anything out of your ordinary definitely sounds to me like panicking ;)
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: The 10th Jhana

Posts: 5981 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
No worries. I wasn't offended.

(And yes, I'm a moderator here, but I don't find that relevant for this thread so far. I'm really not that prone to banning people, as I believe in communication.)

I see what you mean and agree. Psychosis is not a reason for panic to me. I keep forgetting how much it's red alert for most normal people. I have loved ones who regularly get into psychosis, and it isn't all danger danger. There's a huge spectrum of it. I have a relatively laid-back approach to psychosis and don't believe that there are that welldefined boundaries between psychosis and not-psychosis. Of course, that's not what most people will read when I mention it out of context like that, so your comments are perfectly valid. I appreciate the nuances of it. 

And of course, if calming down and connecting skillfully with consensual reality is an option, it's usually not so relevant to consider psychosis at all. And I'm not assuming that there is such an issue here. I just clumsily mentioned the possibility, because I do know that shit can get really weird really fast sometimes, and that can be unnecessarily tough to deal with. My initial comment wasn't one of my finest moments in skillful communication. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: The 10th Jhana

Posts: 5981 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Jhanas can suddenly become available, for instance after stream entry, sometimes before that too, and may feel like a big deal. What are your previous experiences with regard to jhana?