Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

End in Sight, modified 12 Years ago at 10/10/11 11:33 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/10/11 11:32 PM

Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

Posts: 1251 Join Date: 7/6/11 Recent Posts
When one reaches 1st path, one has an experience in which one can always notice pleasant sensations on the skin (wherever attention is placed).

I have noticed that, as I have gone through more of the MCTB paths, as well as beyond, that the pleasantness of the sensations has been slowly increasing in line with the "amount" of developmental enlightenment I attained. There was a big jump at what I think of as sakadagami / out-from-control VF, and there have been lots of significant jumps since then too.

Has anyone else noticed this effect?

I have some theories, but I think they must be wrong, so if others have this, I wonder what they think the cause is.
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Steph S, modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 12:06 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 12:04 AM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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I don't think I noticed it much as an ongoing thing at 1st path, but I do notice it now.. if you're referring to the buzzy feel of the sensations on the skin surface.

Never really speculated as to why this occurs. Here's a couple guesses that probably work in conjunction, rather than being separate reasons:

-Concentration increases with paths, so intensity of sensations increases as well.
-As the "inner" world diminishes, the "external" world (or world as it is) is paid closer attention and opens up for more thorough exploration.
John Mitchell, modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 12:53 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 12:53 AM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Not sure how this relates, but I get a sensation in my skin feeling like a sensitivity combined with joyousness (closest word, hard to describe the sensation). This occurs when I am alert in the present moment, as brought about by remembering HAIETMOBA. It is not there when I am away with my thoughts, or emotions.

It is here now as I am writing this reply. I would say it is in or just under the skin.

I have no theories about it, it seems to be a part of the nature of being in a condition of clear(er) perception.
End in Sight, modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 7:40 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 7:40 AM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Steph S:
I don't think I noticed it much as an ongoing thing at 1st path, but I do notice it now.. if you're referring to the buzzy feel of the sensations on the skin surface.


I am referring to the pleasantness. (I see the buzzy sensations as dependently-originated suffering, not pleasant...but to the extent that one notices pleasantness, one may also notice the buzziness if dependent origination is operating in that way at that moment.)

Steph S:
-Concentration increases with paths, so intensity of sensations increases as well.


I also believe that concentration increases with paths; can you tell me on what basis you believe this? (I would like more evidence to support my belief.)

Perhaps this is a major factor in this observation about the skin.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 7:45 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 7:45 AM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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I can get a mild pleasure just by inclining that way. Deepening it requires some concentration, but is not so hard.

Perhaps mindfulness increases?

An ever-progressing path-winner is probably spending lots of time in jhana, or at least getting pleasurable sensations somewhere in his/her practice. As it happens more + more often, along with generally increased mindfulness, all it takes is remembering those sensations to bring them to the forefront of one's awareness. The mind can align in that direction more easily.
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Nikolai , modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 8:35 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 7:55 AM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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In september 2000, I sat a 10 day course in the Goenka tradition. On day 8 or 9 I was getting quite subtle and laser focused with the sweeping and feeling sensations, uniform pleasant vibrations/buzzing in certain parts of the body, when pop! the top of my crown burst open and flooded the whole body with blissful vibrations throughout every orifice and every part of living tissue. I was able to suddenly feel vibrations in the smallest area of the body, pin pointing attention to the smallest spot, uniform pleasant vibrations felt everywhere.

This access didn't turn off even when i had a 4 month gap of no practicing between my 1st course and my 2nd. I always assumed this was the norm for most advanced yogis. It seems it isn't. I believe the following 8 years of course after course and being a hardcore theravadan nutter made it easier to progress through the paths and on to early af, when I resolved to. It seems easy access to the subtler realties of the entire body, surface and within, makes some things easier.

I did ask other dhamma friends within that tradtion if they had experiecned bhanga often (I experienced it in every sit) and didn't get the idea that it was really common. But there were yogis who did. I was pre-1st path until January, 2010.

I can still feel all those vibrations in every corner of the body. In and out, from the nerve of a chosen tooth to beneath my little toe's nail on my left foot. Is this not common with advanced post-path yogis?
End in Sight, modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 8:07 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 8:02 AM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Nikolai .:
In september 2000, I sat a 10 day course in the Goenka tradition. On day 8 or 9 I was getting quite subtle and laser focused with the sweeping and feeling sensations, uniform pleasant vibrations/buzzing in certain parts of the body, when pop! the top of my crown burst open and flooded the whole body with blissful vibrations throughout every orifice and every part of living tissue. I was able to suddenly feel vibrations in the smallest area of the body, pin pointing wherever I place attention.

I did ask other dhamma friends within that tradtion if they had experiecned bhanga often (I experienced in every sit) and didn't get the idea that it was really common. But there were yogis who did. I was pre-1st path until January, 2010.


I experience sensations in every region of my external body (even in "strange" places such as my eyeballs, the roof of my mouth, under my nail-beds, etc.). However, I don't experience them throughout all the internal areas of my body (though this is increasing in my head, neck, and abdomen; and I can observe them throughout most of the insides of my legs and feet).

I have experienced what Nick describes, but as a temporary product of concentration, not an ongoing experience.

When I observe my whole body panoramically, I observe the entire external region (and some of the internal regions) as a mass of pleasantness, with the non-observed internal regions experienced as "blank".

It would be interesting to do a survey on other people's experiences in this regard. I personally think that this is a fundamentally important thing to attain (but that's just my take for now). Anyone up for sharing?
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Jake , modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 9:01 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 9:01 AM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Yes I've noticed something like this. My take is that "progress" is actually better measured by what's dropped than by what's acquired, as my sense is that what seems to be acquired was already there but couldn't express itself due to obscurations.

The intrinsic pleasure of sensations is one of those things. In the tibetan dzogchen tradition which substantially informs my practice and theoretical understanding, body speech and mind are considered to have what you could call authentic and distorted modes of manifesting. The authentic mode of body in this tradition is a boundless sensate field, and sensation IS pleasure in this teaching. It's said we don't recognize/appreciate this because we're all bound up in dualistic tensions (that is, dualistic representations anchored in bodily tensions).

Therefore any practice which temporarily or attainment which irrevisibly reduces this dualistic tension will reveal sensation to be intrinsically pleasent, as well as centerless/boundless, to the extent and in proportion to the depth of dualistic tension which is relaxed (temporarily or permanently).

So one sign of progress on the path is increasing baselines of perceptual clarity, pleasant boundless/centerless sensation, and emptiness/stillness/lucidity of mind. (The other major sign of practice: the dualistic tensions "coming up" to be fully experienced and understood, digested and released-- not so pleasant, but perhaps where the real work is done?).
-Jake
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Steph S, modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 11:45 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 11:34 AM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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End in Sight:

I also believe that concentration increases with paths; can you tell me on what basis you believe this? (I would like more evidence to support my belief.)

Perhaps this is a major factor in this observation about the skin.


Part of the reason is my understanding of concentration has changed. Instead of how I once viewed it as a more singular focus (such as breath as an object), I'm now thinking it's more of a generally applied ability to pay attention. The scope of attention is more inclusive the further I go. It's harder to see a singular object to pay attention to. Interdependence is more apparent.

So then, these are all total guesses... but maybe the skin sensations are an example of the interdependence between body systems and atmosphere (i.e. the skin being a permeable membrane and "breathing"). Some sort of actual sensations of the body doing its processing? Life force (not the chakra energy way, but the scientific atoms protons neutrons way)? Is this possibly one example of what the AF'ers mean by the universe experiencing itself?
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josh r s, modified 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 5:16 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/11/11 5:16 PM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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during the last few days walking around i've been noticing skin feelings that are both warm in a pleasant way and cool in a pleasant way at the same time. as if i was hot and then got cooled down and was cold and got warmed up at the same time. not the actual heat itself but the warming up/cooling down aspect. do you experience these sensations in this way?
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Jeff Grove, modified 12 Years ago at 10/12/11 6:06 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/12/11 6:06 PM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Hi EIS,

This has become an increasing part of experience over the past couple of of years and applies to all the senses. The increased clarity in perception has also occured with visual perception with what was ordinary colours now seen as a complex spectrum of rainbow light. An aura of light is seen around living things, luminous spheres of light appear in all manour of locations (indoor and outdoor). Perceived sounds are much richer in harmonics.


cheers

Jeff
End in Sight, modified 12 Years ago at 10/12/11 9:24 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/12/11 9:18 PM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Josh, I don't have that. If anything, the pleasant skin sensations feel consistently warm in some way.

Jeff, I've noticed a change in the way colors are perceived (richer, perhaps some slight hue shift). Sounds are experienced as if they were clearer as well, but I don't know if this is an actual change or what (whereas the change in colors is something that I could attempt to quantify if necessary; I would not know how to do this for sound). Thanks for pointing out the possibility of a connection between these pleasant sensations and other modalities. (However, I have no idea what to make of the auras etc. you describe.)

Steph, as best as I can describe it (given whatever limitations or confusion there may be in my perspective), I think "the universe experiencing itself" refers to the fact that every sensation exists as a sensation in the universe and not as a sensation that exists in a subject, and recognizing it means seeing that in a direct, experiential, non-reflective way. Richard would cringe, but the direct experience of this is rather mystical (in a completely down-to-earth way). emoticon

Jake, in the tradition you describe, are all sensations (not just body sensations) inherently pleasurable in the same sense of "pleasurable"? For example, are visual experiences inherently pleasurable in the same way that skin sensations are? If so, can you say more about this? (I've been thinking about this somewhat recently, and input would be appreciated.)
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Jeff Grove, modified 12 Years ago at 10/12/11 9:45 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/12/11 9:45 PM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Hi EIS,

The auras and luminous orbs of light have become more noiticeable in the last couple of months. The auras are easist to observe in well lit locations where there are contrasting colours like a tree against a blue sky.

The luminous orbs (different from auras) now occur in all types lighting from dark to light, indoor to outdoor and are part of my current investigation. Part of my research in attempting to understand their appearance has found a rich history in cultures and expressed in art from around the world. Check out Togal/thodgal

cheers

Jeff
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Daniel Johnson, modified 12 Years ago at 10/13/11 6:50 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/13/11 6:50 PM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Jeff Grove:
An aura of light is seen around living things,


I'm curious, do you see auras if a person is, say, standing around a corner, or a dog is under the table. Do you see an aura peeking out? Could you see someone's approach in this way, just from their aura approaching first around the corner, and then see the body appear?
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Jeff Grove, modified 12 Years ago at 10/13/11 10:10 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/13/11 10:10 PM

RE: Developmental enlightenment and pleasant skin sensations

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Hi Daniel,

You have raised some interesting questions that I will investigate but I cant answer at the moment as it is something I havent considered investigating. In the past I have considered that the affect is due to parts of the eye (rods?) becoming fatigued from looking at particular colours which is what happens when you stare at an image and a secondary image occurs.

The changes in sensation, visual, smell and sound perceptions have been slowly becoming to attention over the past 6mths. Whereas space was seen as empty prior, it now has a shiny element that adds a depth that was previously unseen. This shiny element on a number of occassions has revealed itself as a luminous lattice. This lattice is easiest to discern in the sky. There are nodes in this lattice of luminous spheres (from pea size to soccer ball size). Often the spheres appear arrayed into a group of five, sometimes empty and sometimes with what appears to be something inside which to date I haven't seen clearly enough to say for sure what it is. I have found a number of traditions that identify something.

When these spheres allign they become a tunnel that lead to a large blue circle in the top left hand corner of the sky and concentric circles spread out across the sky. Colours reveal themselves as a display of rainbow colours that become more subtle with distance from their source. The auras are the same affect of light where form becomes more subtle and shown to extend beyond what was previously taken as a clearly defined boundary.



Sounds crazy but having a lot of fun looking at the world with a new set of eyes

cheers

Jeff

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