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I would recommend you have a look at Shinzen Young's community.

They have regularly scheduled on-line retreats.
https://homepracticeprogram.com/upcoming
https://www.lifepracticeprogram.com
https://www.shinzen.org/retreat-schedule/

There is a facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/184003878314363/

And tons of videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/ShinzenInterviews/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/expandcontract/videos

A free on-line course based on Shinzen's teachings
https://unifiedmindfulness.com/core/

A free e-book based on the course:
A Guide to Unified Mindfulness by Julianna Raye

This interview is also worth looking at:
https://www.lionsroar.com/on-enlightenment-an-interview-with-shinzen-young/
(I post this link a lot because Shinzen talks about gradual awakening which he sees more often in his students than sudden awakening and I think it is unfortunate that more teachers don't discuss this.)

Here are some videos on how to work with Shinzen:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6495532A9A462038

I haven't been on any of their retreats or programs but I have taken the on-line course and I recommend it for beginners and anyone who wants to understand the type of meditation Shinzen teaches. I post occasionally in the facebook group. I started reading one of Shinzen's books, The Science of Enlightenment but I didn't finish it because it is not about practice. That book might be interesting and useful to someone else, there were parts I thought had good information -  I am not trying to discourage anyone from looking at it.

Also, if you find a teacher I think you will do well  to remember the following:

• Highly respected teachers have been caught up in scandals involving sexual abuse and other types of abuse. Evidently, being enlightened doesn't make you a nice person - being enlightened isn't what most people think it is.

• Different teachers can disagree about what enlightenment is so you should not assume your teacher has the only truth.

• Look at your teacher as an expert on meditation and the other forms of practice they do, but recognize they are not any more qualified than anyone else (including you) to advise you or make judgements on anything outside that narrow field. Just because they are said to be enlightened doesn't make them experts on morality or ethics or politics etc.  People are great at accumulating practical knowledge about the things they do, but often trouble arises when it is assumed their narrow personal knowledge extends over a wider range than it really does. They also may have strong opinions about but little personal (reliable) knowledge of other schools of Buddhism or other types of meditation and practices.

• No one in infallible, not even in their area of expertise. Experts can become so overconfident in their own area that they get careless. And they can get tunnel vision and see everything within a narrow field and lose sight of other possibilities.

I used to go to the Zen Center near where I live to meditate with people. I found meditating in a group to be helpful. I also went on retreats. (I don't recommend long retreats especially not for beginners - learning to practice in daily life is in my opinion a better alternative - real life is where the dukkha is).  So I agree that being part of a community can help with practice. However I never found a teacher then or since who I thought exemplified personal characteristics I wanted to cultivate in myself so I never really trusted any of them to guide me. During the group meditations at the Zen Center I would meditate my way not their way. No one asked me or cared. Remember you can be part of a community and listen to what the teachers have to say but you don't have to give up your own freedom to chart your own path that you think is right for you.

While I am giving advice I will also advise you not to be in a rush for progress. Let your brain and your worldview adjust gradually. I think some of the situations people run into with meditation causing problems is because they meditate too much too soon.

Even if you start Zen or other methods, it's good to read about the Stages of Insight in case stuff gets rough and bumpy. This way you are informed and might even have certain tools to traverse the difficult parts, instead of going into panic and despair once the lovely concentration practice turns to dust. 

I suggest you read Daniel  Ingrams book Mastering The Core Teachings of The Buddha and get informed on what can happen and what one can do about it. 

I think it's best to get a teacher when you really feel the desire to have one.

Best wishes Brendan! 

Well Zen dudes are the last place to ask about maps or anything attainment related as ALL experience according to them is but Makyo And they are not wrong it seems  

However it does help at times to know that certain disturbing experiences are but normal mind stuff, rather than feeling one is not a mighty meditator any longer or the meditation has just gone bad and one shall stop, when such experiences are but natural progression of insight. 

I never really mapped my mind xperience. Mind can be interested to know where on the map it is but it's of more benefit to "observe/note" this mind behaviour than actually go along and stress and obsess about it  
Life is too short and mind states and stages are impermanent anyway. 
most important lesson is to note/notice, pay attention to This moment. 

Certain stages can be very rapid in noting/noticing experiences while other stages can be rather sluggish and slow. 

I think you should look for a teacher that resonates well with you. I only ever worked with Kenneth Folk for a few months. The rest is daily consistent practice. 

It can help to start a log here on DhO and members can reply with tips and tricks. However it's up to you to get the daily practice going. You also decide what that practice is right now for you. 
If you start a log you might get more answers regarding the practical stuff. A teacher might tell you the same  

​​​​​​​What ever you decide, best wishes  

I've learned from teachers in formal classes, in one-on-one interview times during retreats, and online via Skype (Kenneth Folk). Obviously covid will limit what's available right now. If you're specifically looking for people in the Mahasi/Bill Hamilton/Daniel Ingram lineage, your choices are more limited. And if you want, in addition, the availability of one-on-one time via Skype just whenever you need it, your choices are even more limited still.

You could check out open sangha collectives list of teachers available for 1-1 instruction - 

https://opensanghacollective.org/teachers/

(full disclosure I helped create this website)

Hi, Brendan. It's nice that you are here and that you posted, which gave all of us something to read and think about.

Your options for teachers may depend on where you live. If you live in a place with in-person meditation groups, that can be an easy way to find a teacher. You join a group, and if there is a teacher leading the group, listen to the talks and decide if you want to ask that teacher for one-to-one guidance of some sort. This is a pretty easy and organic way to go about it, so, if it's possible, I would recommend it as a first step. There is a lot to be gained from this kind of group participation, even if you don't end up talking directly to the teacher. You can even make friends in the group who could turn you on to other groups and teachers. 

You can also do the same thing online. That is, you can participate in a group that mediates and discusses at set times through platforms like Zoom. There are advantages to in-person group practice that would make me suggest it as a first choice, but online stuff can be good too, and again it gives you a chance to check out teachers.

These kinds of things tend to be free, with donations accepted but not required.

You can also get a teacher of the type that usually expects payment, and least from people who can afford it (some will forego payment from people without much money). Picking this kind of teacher might be harder as you might not get a chance to see them teach in public so this might be easier when you have already built up a set of teacher evaluation criteria. 

There are several lists of teachers in this thread:

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/21564331

I found a teacher (Nick Grabovac) from that thread and, about a year later, I am still very happy with his teaching. We only meet through Zoom every couple of months. There are also a number of authors who I consider to be my teachers (Rob Burbea, Leigh Brasington, and Ajahn Brahm, in particular) and one guy who gives YouTube talks (Doug Smith of Doug's Dharma). 

Those are thoughts about the "how" part of "When, why and how to seek a teacher." I think the other parts of the question are good too and my guess is that there are many good answers to those parts of the question. I have looked for teachers when I had questions that were not answered by the materials I was working from. 

I would say, "Poke around and see what feels right" but you are already doing that with this post so, instead I will say, "Excellent start, keep going."

I would second Jim Smith's recommendations. Just got back from a 7-day virtual retreat with Shinzen and it was excellent. I recommend finding a secondary location to do it if you have distractions at home, but the instruction, schedule and support was sufficient for my needs.

I've also worked with Abre Fournier as a coach for about a year and half. Many others on this forum have worked with her so you can ask them about their experiences too. 

Support with insight work is crucial. Use this forum, find a good teacher and go on retreat. Friendship is the entirety of the path.

After reading MCTB and doing some weeks at the Panditarama in Lumbini I had a pretty clear idea where they thought I was. That was just inferred from the interview questions. That´s the only place/teacher I know who seems to have rather reliable diagnostic criteria, based on ones reports of the perception of the rising/falling. Integrity-wise they´re unquestionable it occurs to me, monastic theravada bed rock. They´re in europe (pian dei ciliegi and javorie) and the us too at times. But I wouldn´t do Panditarama again, personally, doesn´t suit me so well. Just came across a PaAuk teacher at the Javorie MC that impressed me a lot, the perfect guru sort of. That statement comes from a hyper-critical foul mouth, as some here already know. Maybe a better address for you if you have easy access to concentration. But as the teacher disrobed a few years ago there are some safety measures removed. Though robes don´t guarantee integrity either.

jim said:

• Highly respected teachers have been caught up in scandals involving sexual abuse and other types of abuse. Evidently, being enlightened doesn't make you a nice person - being enlightened isn't what most people think it is.

   It is not that "highly respected teachers"seem bad because we don't really understand their enlightenment. It is that being highly respected as a teacher means nothing in terms of whether or not you are enlightened. "Scandals" such as exploiting people or indulging sensual pleasures excessively are indications of a lack of enlightenment. People have so much invested in their trips that they will ignore even obvious signs of ignorance.

    "Highly respected teachers" often have a tradition, reputation and congregation to protect, and may only be highly respected because they are good at protecting those things. There is nothing easier to acquire than followers. As the generic politician once said, "Sincerity is the key: once you can fake that, you can fake anything." And no one is easier to fool than oneself.

    Besides, a teacher is to facilitqte ones enlightenment, to set you free, not make you follow.

   In my view we have a culture in which teachings are a dime a dozen. There are more teachings than you can shake a stick at; more than are good for you. Find a teacher who simplifies, though it is not that simple. As lao tzu says, "that which is to be expanded must first be fully contracted."

   Our culture of "late capitalism" is similar to that of the buddha of the early suttas. People were totally devoted to making money, which is why they appeared so fractiously religious. Rulers controlled people, as they do now, by identity politics: get them to hate each other and compete in a system all take for granted, oppressive and parasitic though it is. Even teachings and religious ritual were based on material considerations, until the inevitable reformer comes along, preaching harmony between the various margimalized ascetics and the materialists. Teaching by example a "middle way" involving consuming only what is necessary and essential and being willing to subsist on what is freely given. So, seek a teacher who is uninterested in acquiring wealth for any purpose, who has surrendered any desire to abase the spirit to satisfy the flesh. Un homme sans affaires who sleeps when tired and eats when hungry.


   The sufi masters might be found in a low tavern or gay cathouse, but they didn't exploit people.

   Con men feed on your desires.

   Seek a spiritual companion who, whatever their true eminence, treats you as a friend.


terry



from "bostan (the orchard)" by saad:



Concerning humility

A story of Sultan Bayazid Bastami 

When Bayazid was coming from his bath one morning during the Eid festival, someone unwittingly emptied a tray of ashes from a window upon his head. With his face and turban al bespattered, he rubbed his hands in gratitude and said, “I am in truth worthy of the fires of hell. Why should I be angered by a few ashes?”
The great do not regard themselves; look not for the godliness in a self- conceited man. Eminence does not consist in outward show and vaunting words, nor dignity in hauteur and pretension.

pcd said:

Well  Zen dudes are the last place to ask about maps or anything attainment related as ALL experience according to them is but Makyo  And they are not wrong it seems  


-----------


     A map purports to represent a territory. The conceit is that an exporer and geographer of the spirit can represent these territories symbolically, as though they were wildernesses and we needed waymarks and navigation instructions to arrive at a destination. In actuality prophets point to the void as the source of uncanny and unwitting enlightenment, in the absence of data in any form. The treasure of unitary knowledge is found in the ruin of symbolic thinking.

   You can tell a tourist by the map and the camera.

   Real teachers are created by students spontaneously gathering around them. Often these students are jealous about sharing their teacher and don't encourage others to apply. Maybe they don't even want to admit they are being taught, for fear it will break the spell. No transactions, no prestige. Look for a crowd of people apparently unrelated but all connected somehow and all doing well.

   The best teachers don't need to speak at all, you know already what they would say and adjust before you are told.

terry



saadi, op cit:



The story of a donkey

One left behind on the road wept, saying, “Who in this desert is more distressed than I?”
A pack donkey answered, “O, senseless man! How long wilt thou bewail the tyranny of fate? Go, and give thanks that, though thou ridest not upon a donkey, thou art not a donkey upon which men ride.”

   It has been said that back in the day, when a student desired to enter a zen monastery they approached the door of the monastery and knocked. And knocked and knocked. After a long time the door is answered, and the devotee is told they are full up, they barely have enough rice to go around, and to go seek elsewhere. The door is shut. The student knocks some more, endures more rudeness, sleeps on the portal and cild wet and hungry is finally admitted on a very temporary and trial basis.

   In truth being a teacher is a pain in the butt. It is the teacher who is the students slave, the students follower. What the student does not know is ultra obvious to the teacher, like teaching someone a language of which they are ignorant. Out of kindheartedness, a teacher might accept a persistent student as one would a rescue puppy. Eventually they may become a welcome companion and loyal protector, even a friend. If they don't run away, get run over or stolen. The "siudemt" must be converted from one who studies to one who knows, and this is not a linear path. They need fed, exercised and taught not to bite.

   Sufis often regard themselves as dogs, after diogenes, the "cynic" (dog). A dog is humble, loyal to its master, wags its tail and licks his friends, and barks at his enemies and those strange to him.

terry


from rumis discourses:

It is better not to question what Sufis say, since this obliges them to invent a lie. For if a materialist questions a Sufi, the Sufi must give some answer. But how can they be completely truthful with someone incapable of understanding? The materialist’s mouth and lips are not able to receive such a delicate morsel. So the Sufi must answer people according to their capacity and experience, namely by inventing an answer that sends them away.

Although everything the Sufi gives out is true and cannot be a lie, yet the first thing a Sufi says is far greater. If this is questioned, then what good is answering with more truth? Even still, the lie given by the Sufi is good for the materialist, and more than right.

​​​​​​​In regards to the donkey story,

teachers have to ask themselves:

"do I want to be saddled with a student?"

I'm willing to video with you to see if we click.  I coach awakening sometimes, free, with dedicated practitioners.
Post a way to contact you, then i'll tell you when i got it and you can delete it.
~D

it's best to seek nonhuman companions

the most ordinary cat bird dog or horse knows more about life than you  your teachers and your species ever will

in joy one finds teachers everywhere, even the stones rise up and speak...


one day they will ask you questions, silently

and you will answer

​​​​​​​silently

Hey, sorry just noticed your message. That'd be great if you're available. Haven't had much luck in my search for a teacher so far but seem to be making great progress overcoming various issues by just reading relevant posts.

Was re-reading over this thread earlier and saw you mentioned meeting with Nick. I found him on another list of teachers (dharmatreasure.org) I was looking through and his description seemed to resonate with me best. I'm meeting him tomorrow,  glad to hear he comes recommend 

@dreamwalker are you still doing coaching? I am interested if you could please email me at x

Thank you

from classicalwisdom dot com


Diogenes was constantly dirty, disheveled, and often smelled of filth. He urinated and defecated in public, and it was not uncommon for him to literally spit in the faces of those who disagreed with him. For this reason, Diogenes was sometimes referred to as “Diogenes the dog”.

Rather than being offended, Diogenes reveled in the idea of being more like a dog. A dog, he believed, was more in touch with nature and therefore more closely in tune with true happiness. The dog does not care for social status or material possessions; the dog does not make himself a slave to the superficial desires that so plague the hearts of men. The dog lives life in the present and does not concern itself with abstract notions that might damage the soul.

The philosopher believed very firmly that man is not above nature. We are inescapably a part of it, and the further we retreat from this truth, hiding behind our lavish houses and material treasures, the further we withdraw from true virtue.


from einzeiganger dot com

Many anecdotes describe Diogenes as ‘dog-like’ or ‘doggish’. When he was asked why people describe him that way, he replied: “I fawn on those who give me anything, I yelp at those who refuse, and I set my teeth in rascals.”

However, one day he took his aspirations to be ‘dog-like’ to a whole new level, when a group of wealthy Athenians at a banquet disrespectfully threw bones at him. His response: lifting his leg, and urinating on them. 

Diogenes himself wasn’t married. He satisfied his sexual desires by masturbating, which he did, unsurprisingly, in public. When he was ridiculed because of this, he answered: “I wish it were as easy to banish hunger by rubbing my belly.” His later pupil Crates, on the other hand, married a fellow Cynic philosopher named Hipparchia. Continuing Diogenes’ doggish behavior, they consummated their marriage in public.


and


The Cynics pointed to the meaninglessness of civilized life, showing that human beings aren’t bad creatures in themselves, but have created a society that estranges them from their true nature. Similar to Socratic thought, the Cynics believed that virtue and happiness are in our own hands, and, thus, external things that are irrelevant when it comes to achieving them.

Like Socrates, Diogenes believed that a good life was a life of self-sufficiency. Because he owned nothing, and wished for nothing more than the satisfaction of his basic needs, it was easy for him to be content. He didn’t need things like material wealth, and status, to be happy, and couldn’t care less about what people thought about him. 

Diogenes enjoyed the small pleasures of life, which are much easier to get, as opposed to the goodies that society wants us to chase, which often take a lot of effort to obtain. Philosopher Epicurus shared this view, and also rejected the chase of pleasures that cost us more than we actually receive.

Take the chase of material wealth, for example. Diogenes thought of money as the mother of all evil. And let’s face it: society expects us to stretch ourselves beyond our means to achieve the superficial goals it lays upon us. Some people are even willing to commit immoral acts including violence and murder, just to obtain money. And for what? Most of the time, for buying stuff they don’t need to impress people they don’t even like. Thus, when we take social pressure out of the equation, what’s the point of chasing material wealth?

Diogenes pitied all those people that are stuck on the hamster wheel, running in the hope of getting what they never will, unless they free themselves from the societal rat race, live a simple life that’s natural for our species, and enjoy the present moment. This, he considered a shortcut to virtue; a much easier and convenient way to be happy.

From Diogenes’ point of view, dogs are great teachers on how to live in agreement with nature. They relieve themselves whenever they want, eat when they’re hungry (and whatever they can find), copulate in public without shame, and live in the present moment without anxiety. In regards to the last characteristic, we could say that what many spiritual seekers are looking for, dogs already have.

Even though a life of poverty may seem a very disempowering position to be in: Diogenes’ way of life made him extremely powerful. After all: he was independent of external factors, and therefore, no one could do anything to him.

This made me smile and evermore confident about my views, lifestyle and direction. Did you type the website wrong by chance? I can't seem to find 'einzeiganger' dot com.

yeah, typed it wrong...

https://einzelganger.co/diogenes-the-philosopher-who-urinated-on-people/

Dogs and philosophers do the greatest good and get the fewest rewards.
~Diogenes

I emailed you, If you got it please edit your post to erase your email info

Received, thank you!

I am encountering issues during my practice where I am questioning so many aspects over the technique utilized. While before I was stand off-ish with the prospect of getting a teacher, last night that stance shifted somewhat. I am not great with speaking verbally and am hoping more for the question/answer/advice to happen just through text. Do you all have any recommendations that fit that restriction or it's mostly in person and video conferencing?

There's lots of people willing to answer questions on here, some of whom do a bit of teaching as well!

Just so I undestand your question correctly: are you looking for a continuous relationship with a teacher that is familiar with your specific practice and who can get to know you as a practicioner and adapt the answers to fit you? Or can it be less personal? 

I'm asking because I know that some dharma teachers respond to questions by email and some have Q&A sessions where you can either type your questions in the live feed or send them in advance. Those questions have to be rather short and precise, though, and they will answer without the contextual knowledge of how your practice is going. On the plus side, it's free of charge, but of course it's not the same thing as a continuous relationship. 

Linda,

I am looking for a continuous relationship. While forums and Q/A's can be helpful, I feel like I'm at a point where I need to have in depth conversations with someone over this to get clarification as well as other things.

I'm happy to reflect on your practice by text. If you're interested you can email me: agnostic246 AT gmail DOT com

or you can DM me on reddit: u/GeorgeAgnostic

Thanks for clarifying! I hope you find a teacher that you can trust and who can give you the kind of feedback that suits your development well. It's okay to be picky if needed. It's also okay to give something a try to see if it works. Personally I would recommend to watch out so that your teacher isn't in it for his or her own gratification but truly out of love for the dharma and your wellbeing. Just like with so many other things, even in the dharma there are people who get invested in some prestigeful idea of themselves, and I'm not so sure they are all even aware of it. However, as long as you feel that your needs are met and the advice you receive works well for you over time, and the teacher encourages that you reflect critically, and if you don't get too invested in the relationship, it's probably okay. Best wishes! 

Thank you, Linda and George. George, I'll send you an email here in a bit.