I try to find out Analayo's CV of his civil life, before he ordained at age 33. There's exactly nothing about that to find in the internet apart from the fact that he is German.

Worked as an electrician out of high school.  Actually went back to get a physics PhD with the goal of working on nuclear fusion projects.  However, following a near tragic freak LSD overdose he ultimately came to believe that the truest form of unlimited energy was the untapped potential of our mind's original nature.  He left academia and then  bounced around various fringe German meditative cult groups for several years before ultimately robing up.  No retreats in that time actually, only after, the wikipedia article has clearly misled you.  ;)

The problem isnt that Analayo smeared Ingram. The problem is that he is using textual knowledge to debate an experiential subject.
When we talk about meditation and awakening we are talking about first person subjective experience. Which in turn comes out in all kinds of language depending on how people interpret the language. So instead of trying to hold a discussion to compare 'the signs' and understand commonalities and differences with the intention of learning something and perhaps teaching something, he is using textual scholarship (which in this project is the most useless thing ever) to attack.

This attack is most probably motivated by the desire to ringfence doantion money (which is probably a finite pool) for established institutions. Because Analayo can't possibly be that dumb ... experientially speaking. I don't 'know' this, I am speculating this, because I know how the world works.

And its not about Analayo vs Ingram for me. I don't have a dog in the fight. Its about the principles involved. Shame on Analayo!!!


P.S. Sorry. I completely forgot that this was not a diss thread. So sorry.
I have heard that Analayo was a Dog catcher in Ukraine most of his life before he ordained. Thus have I heard. Making it hearsay.

In the thread discussing Analayo’s first piece on Daniel, someone created a new account to post this about him:

I've changed this topic title to be less sensational and accusational, based on the request above by the topic creator. 

 Chris
DhO Moderator

This forum needs decorum (yes, that's an intentional rhyme). So again I've changed the title.

You're navigating into troll territory, Mr. Smertnig. If this keeps up there will be other consequences. You got a reprieve last time because the object of your trolling was willing to forgive you and move on. I'm not going to put up with it.

Please stick to what you say is your intent - to learn about the biographical history of Analayo. 

Thanks for listening,

Chris
DhO Moderator

LOL that's not the hint I got - 'anger as a teen ... strictness today'

Stephan - not a diss, simply an attempt at humor stemming from 100% no idea on Analayo's background. 

re: Analayo vs Daniel, I'm not sure how much money or cynical politics have to do with it, but it definitely seems like Analayo views the pragmatic dharma movement as an affront or threat to his own ideology.  Which frankly seems pretty normal given that Analayo is a staunch traditionalist - his "thing" so to speak is the literal interpretation of early Buddhist sutras.  What is unfortunate is that along with traditionalist attitudes frequently seems to come a certain narrow mindedness and dogmatism that views any grand debate as heresy. 

​​​​​​​Open mindedness and critical thinking are the way forward, but it's inevitably messy in an area such as meditative experience where obvious external results are rare, and any genuine achievements either need to be taken on faith, or literally achieved by the investigating party in order to realistically evaluate them.  Until we all get fully enlightened and can thus evaluate each other from such an experienced state, lesser or greater conflict seems inevitable. 

"Until we all get fully enlightened and can thus evaluate each other from such an experienced state, lesser or greater conflict seems inevitable. "

Yeah bra! Grab your torch and pitchforks!!!  

It will be useful for this thread if the OP would cease his behavior of editing and altering his first post every few days and changing his comments and requests, which he has done numerous times already. Whether it's intentional or not, repeatedly changing the content of the first post has the effect of altering and manipulating the context, thus the replies, of other thread contributors.
It would have been more beneficial to the comprehension of the thread, fairer to the thread contributors, and more sensible to forum readers - now and in the future - if the OP would have simply left his first post intact and then communicated any change of mind, intention, or reaction in subsequent follow-up posts.

"Lesser or greater conflict" - surrounding people's attainments and the general thrust of the Buddhist / spiritual path..

" Yeah bra! Grab your torch and pitchforks!!! "  ​​​​​​​

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​I mean pretty much, you try going around claiming to be enlightened.  ;) 

Just trying to get info instead of bashing, with support of the moderator, it seems. Hope all incentives for bashing are removed now, no further changes intended, while preserving the initial intention of the OP.

Distress and anger as a teen seems to rather commonplace, while homelessness is not. Backward ideology may be anything from eastern German communism to Bavarian catholic money making attitude. So not much found here.

At least more details of his trajectory post ordination can be found in this interview which highlights his motivation a bit. Really not much. He mentions German perfectionism. Not true for all Germans btw, I know some really sloppy ones.

But a hint as his academic career pre-ordination is also there: `I had already done a BA degree and some MA stud­ies in other sub­jects in Ger­many` ... before studying at the Peridenya university in Sri Lanka. Couldn't pin-point any of that, but in his Phd thesis A comparative study of the Majjhima-nikāya at the university of Marburg, Germany, he mentions in the acknowledgement section the family name of his parents `...my parents, K.R. and T.F. Steffens'.

​​​​​​​At stack exchange on buddhism there's also more blocking behavior rather than answers on the question in the OP, if your interested. I'm not sure if a person who has a public role like Analayo should enjoy the privilege to do so with a wiped out history. There are institutions who issue cover identities, but I didn't associate that with the buddhist sangha until now. That of course could be a total misunderstanding of historical facts. 

There's at least one opinion now that says, it should be in his discretion. Will try to contact him directly.

This is disingenuous, to say the least.

I had to change the topic title to something reasonable more than once yesterday because you kept changing it after I did. ​​​​​​​As Monsoon Frog stated, you repeatedly change the OP text, change or remove your previous posts, and make nice or nasty depending on your mood or some other random factor. As of right now, you're a troll, not a worthwhile contributor. If you like DhO and want to contribute or even just remain a member, please be consistent, be mature, stop editing your topic titles and comments, and stop playing mind games with everyone else.

The clock is ticking, S. Smertnig.

Chris
DhO Moderator

Ok, ok, Chris, got it. Hope you find the last post ok. Thats the result of half a day of more research, looks like we wont know more any time soon. Im not sure, if a public figure like Analayo should enjoy a wiped out history or not. I'd say no. Guess you have some polititian or opinion leader whose bio starts mid life, wouldnt that be weird? I didnt see bhikkhu ordination as sort of adoption of a cover identity until now. Whats your take on that? Do I persue a useless desire, as has been pointed out at another place? Lots of things to examine indeed.

You have an odd sensibility about message board participation. I don't delete posts unless they violate the DhO terms of service. Let's leave them, up, okay? Deleting posts interrupts the flow of conversation and leaves the replies to the deleted comment looking totally out of context. It's rude, frankly. So let's not.

I'm really not curious about Analayo's past. If he wants it to be just his business I'm okay with that. However, if you're a serious meditation practitioner you might want to examine your desire to reveal things about other people online. To "out them, as it were." It seems to be a theme.
Thank you.

You're editing your comments after people reply to them, mine included. Can you participate in a normally constructed message board conversation? Use replies. Not sure if you don't get it or if you're being manipulative, but either way it's truly annoying.

Just didn't want to leave a post where the bhikkhu sangha gets compared to a special unit of the french military. But I see, as soon as a reply exists, the OP should be immutable forever. I will adapt.

Was more used to stackoverflow where ex-post editing and cleaning up of obsolete posts is encouraged and personal stuff gets punished. But that's topic centered tech stuff there with unsolicited counselling, patronizing and what not in fact also happening, but purged eventually. Painful also to to adapt to that supposedly hostile environment, but the wise participant can reduce suffering by reading their explicit guidelines. Different worlds. May the universe remember me as a dull troll.

"May the universe remember me as a dull troll. "

I don't think the universe gives a shit I might be wrong though in which case the universe might remember me as a bloody fool  

​​​​​​​Best wishes! 

Its more this physics view. They say, information never disappears. May not count as fully functional memory, though.

Behold - DhO posting and behavior guidelines, open, public, available to anyone who cares. And right there on the home page:


Note well: the culture of open disclosure of practice is rare and requires vigilance to maintain. You are welcome to participate here so long as you help maintain that space in which deep practice can be discussed.

Standard netiquette, aka common courtesy: The forum works best when everybody posts from a place of mutual consideration and thoughtfulness towards others. Constructive criticism and critiques are highly encouraged but should be done so in a calm, considerate manner. Avoid abrasiveness, derision, insults and mockery. The Core Rules of Netiquette are a good general guide as to how to help this place support deep practice, and the Moderators are empowered to help direct things towards this fine ideal. If you require a space to discuss deep topics that is (sic) more private, this could be discussed with Daniel Ingram. To help keep the place more inviting of participation by those who can benefit from helpful friends supporting friends in their practices and sharing the intimate and deep adventures that these explorations can produce, the following ground rules have been adopted:
​​​​​​​

• No name-calling or ad hominem attacks
• No on-and-on repetitious, angry rants that marshal no supporting evidence, target an interlocutor, and have the effect of intimidating the interlocutor.
• No threats of violence, even if metaphorical or aimed at no one in particular
• No taunting, mocking, or intimidation of an individual or a group on the basis of race/ethnicity, sex, disability (including mental illness), sexual orientation, religious preference, or spiritual practice
• No speech acts that would be actionable under US criminal or civil tort law 
• Don't post copyrighted material that you don't have the right or permission to post or distribute except snippets allowed under fair use.

The Moderators (contact info there) will warn and, as a second step ban posters who are absolutely not willing to respect these rules. When in doubt, ask, "Is this helpful and conducive to clarity, wisdom, and the alleviation of suffering?"
​​​​​​​

Ah, ok, you mean it as satire.

Looks like the forces of the controversy want to pull me in. I'm rather not into such stuff. Just wanted to know some biographical data, thought that would shed some light on whats going on in the present. Also thought, I'd not be the only person at DHO who'd find that interesting. Be it as it may.

Smertnig, why are you still editing your older comments?

Oh please, I'm not editing older comments, I am adding replies, then edit them while there is still no response, recently because the question I asked was in fact answered below in the thread. Intention: place the Info given further below right under the OP. Hows that?

Btw the contact the moderators link yields this: Portlet is temporarily unavailable. Since quite a while.

The comment you've been editing this morning is from 11/16. The flow of conversation is important to people. Add a new reply post to explain yourself instead of changing the historical context of the conversation to your liking.

Last warning. Stop, or you're gone.

Chris
DhO Moderator

11/16 was the date S.Smertnig joined this place. Apart from the root post none of the posts of that date was left because I deleted them due to ignorance and got reprimanded already for that misdeed.

Today I added a reply. Might be that you see it as an altered old post in the admin view. My conscience is clear. Am really on my toes not to transgress. Still threatening to ban me?

You're just too disruptive. You've even changed to topic title this morning, then changed it back again when I started questioning you. Your behavior is not cautious and genuine, it's trolling and aggressively ignoring my warnings and the TOS on DhO. In my judgment we'll be doing this silly dance forever, so...

You are now banned.