RE: striking out

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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
striking out


   Since so far I can’t follow current discussions, perhaps I will strike out on my own and initiate a thread I can follow. 

   I’ve been thinking about my project. A first, actually, not usually finding any need to project outcomes. Still, the perennial questions for any endeavor is why am I doing this and what am I doing. Question mark.

   We have the mindset, the weltanschuung, of an industrial culture. We are conquering nature,  and being fruitful and multiplying. A philosophy of production and consumption, and the more the better. But we live in a world which simply will not sustain our current trajectory as a “successful” species.

   If the planet and its living being(s) is considered as an entity, an organism, it has become unhealthy. Global warming, proliferating zoonoses, pollution, depletion of resources, catastrophic declines in biodiversity… It seems that total collapse of the web of life (and incidentally the food chain) are not only inevitable but imminent.

   Any facing up to and dealing with this Situation requires a step back from everydayness and the development of a sense of what is needed to restore the world organism to health.

   Every generation is born perfectly ignorant and needs to be educated. As the proverb goes: “learn one, do one, teach one.” In this manner each generation is brought up to speed and then cycles down. There is always “progress” in the sense of forward movement but it is not always toward positive goals. Now we speak of overpopulation and obesity where once we scrabbled for calories and struggled to keep our young alive.

   Now we need to be concerned, all of us, with the survival of our world, the continued existence of our race and our relations.

   My project involves tweaking the mindset, I perceive. (Let them eat tweaks. Or, tweakies.)

 We’re pretty much stuck in the 1600s with descartes, in whom the baby truly left the bathwater and went down the plughole. Formerly most people considered scientific progress secondary to spiritual progress. Cartesian radical doubt eliminated spiritual imagination and diverted attention into to the ego and its ability to impose its will on matter. Anything immaterial is set asides doubtful, and eventually fades from vision altogether. Now we mostly see a world only of physical objects, and imagination is hazy at best. Where once it was as vivid as daytime.

   Many of can agree now that spiritual progress may be the only solution to a sustainable relationship with our world. Many still think science will bail us out. Certainly the current administration imagines we can green energy our way to sustaining current levels of energy use, which is so obviously absurd one wonders how they can so delude themselves, or if it is all just cynicism and exploitation. Radical conservation would be the cornerstone of any effective strategy to reduce global warming and there is not a moment to lose. When it gets bad enough people will acknowledge the problems and burn to solve them. Millennials are due their wake up call, if they are not oversleeping already.


   Our culture as we transmit it to our young is historical. Our best ideas go back to the buddha, to lao/chuang taoism, to the prophets and the greeks. All our spiritual traditions teach transcendence of the ego and taking responsibility for the health of everything under the sun. In genesis god’s original task for adam was to take care of the garden and to be satisfied in this humble capacity. Instead, mankind found themselves naked and ashamed.

   I want to change the way we see everything. This is a lengthy project and I have to bring this post to some sort of resting point some time, so I’ll try to briefly indicate what I want to talk about.

   In the beginning was the void, and god said “let there be light.” In other words, “in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god.”

   A question I have returned to again and again in my contemplations is “what is light?” in the spiritual, imaginal, intellectual sense. What is clarity? What, indeed, is existence?

   “Light” is consciousness, awareness. Insight. By shining into the dark, it brings things into the light, into existence. Without light no things appear, and it is due to the appearance of actual things that we can project that all we don’t see nonetheless exists. Pittsburg, the eiffel tower, the atlantic ocean - I can’t see them but I presume they exist, along with stars and dandelions.

  The old world-view tells you that things exist in themselves. (Even kant knew better, let alone heraclitus, the buddha, lao tzu, etc.) We (our culture, in general - the “they-self”)  imagine our selves to be internal to our bodies and that we are walking about in a world chock full of real objects which exist of themselves. The new world view involves seeing that the only objects which exist do so in relation to a human subject.

   We take existence to be reality. We take our consciousness to hold the entire universe, and imagine it includes everything. So, first off there is the idea that existence is only what we know as very limited sentient (that is, conscious) beings, and that reality is vastly, vastly greater. Dogen likens our plight to that of a man on a raft in the middle of the ocean, knowing nothing of cities and continents and myriad living beings, and absorbed in his infinitely varied little stretch of ocean.

   Our true being is not just that of another object. We come into existence full blown, aware of ourselves as a historical being with a past and a future, and that we exist, here and now. We endow other beings, animate and inanimate, with being as well. In each of us the light of consciousness creates the world of existence. We attune our world to that of “others” and constantly make it more consistent with the “they.”

   We invent a past consistent with our world as we understand it, to suit our desires, and we project a future of fulfilled desires, towards which we strive. Absorbed in this striving, in everydayness, consciousness contracts. We develop routines, habits, and save ourselves the effort of thinking or confronting new things or learning new tasks.

   Or maybe we feel a conscience, some anxiety, and we wonder “who am I” and “what is there worthwhile to do?” In this manner consciousness expands.

   I’m going to taper off here with the idea I hope I have conveyed that reality is a great void and that consciousness is a tiny light in a dark little corner, and it is in danger. We need a collective consciousness that can help us cope with the demise of our planetary environment.

   And we need it tout suit (and the tooter, the sweeter.)


terry



augustine

CONFESSIONS - BOOK ELEVEN
CHAPTER XIV

17. There was no time, therefore, when thou hadst not made anything, because thou hadst made time itself. And there are no times that are coeternal with thee, because thou dost abide forever; but if times should abide, they would not be times.

For what is time? Who can easily and briefly explain it? Who can even comprehend it in thought or put the answer into words? Yet is it not true that in conversation we refer to nothing more familiarly or knowingly than time? And surely we understand it when we speak of it; we understand it also when we hear another speak of it.

What, then, is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks me, I do not know. Yet I say with confidence that I know that if nothing passed away, there would be no past time; and if nothing were still coming, there would be no future time; and if there were nothing at all, there would be no present time.

But, then, how is it that there are the two times, past and future, when even the past is now no longer and the future is now not yet? But if the present were always present, and did not pass into past time, it obviously would not be time but eternity. If, then, time present--if it be time--comes into existence only because it passes into time past, how can we say that even this is, since the cause of its being is that it will cease to be? Thus, can we not truly say that time is only as it tends toward nonbeing?



   Since so far I can’t follow current discussions, perhaps I will strike out on my own and initiate a thread I can follow. 
   I’ve been thinking about my project. A first, actually, not usually finding any need to project outcomes. Still, the perennial questions for any endeavor is why am I doing this and what am I doing. Question mark.
   We have the mindset, the weltanschuung, of an industrial culture. We are conquering nature,  and being fruitful and multiplying. A philosophy of production and consumption, and the more the better. But we live in a world which simply will not sustain our current trajectory as a “successful” species.
   If the planet and its living being(s) is considered as an entity, an organism, it has become unhealthy. Global warming, proliferating zoonoses, pollution, depletion of resources, catastrophic declines in biodiversity… It seems that total collapse of the web of life (and incidentally the food chain) are not only inevitable but imminent.
   Any facing up to and dealing with this Situation requires a step back from everydayness and the development of a sense of what is needed to restore the world organism to health.
   Every generation is born perfectly ignorant and needs to be educated. As the proverb goes: “learn one, do one, teach one.” In this manner each generation is brought up to speed and then cycles down. There is always “progress” in the sense of forward movement but it is not always toward positive goals. Now we speak of overpopulation and obesity where once we scrabbled for calories and struggled to keep our young alive.
   Now we need to be concerned, all of us, with the survival of our world, the continued existence of our race and our relations.
   My project involves tweaking the mindset, I perceive. (Let them eat tweaks. Or, tweakies.)
 We’re pretty much stuck in the 1600s with descartes, in whom the baby truly left the bathwater and went down the plughole. Formerly most people considered scientific progress secondary to spiritual progress. Cartesian radical doubt eliminated spiritual imagination and diverted attention into to the ego and its ability to impose its will on matter. Anything immaterial is set asides doubtful, and eventually fades from vision altogether. Now we mostly see a world only of physical objects, and imagination is hazy at best. Where once it was as vivid as daytime.
   Many of can agree now that spiritual progress may be the only solution to a sustainable relationship with our world. Many still think science will bail us out. Certainly the current administration imagines we can green energy our way to sustaining current levels of energy use, which is so obviously absurd one wonders how they can so delude themselves, or if it is all cynicism and exploitation. Radical conservation would be the cornerstone of any effective strategy to reduce global warming and there is not a moment to lose. When it gets bad enough people will acknowledge the problems and burn to solve them. Millennials are due their wake up call, if they are not oversleeping.

   Our culture as we transmit it to our young is historical. Our best ideas go back to the buddha, to lao/chuang taoism, to the prophets and the greeks. All our spiritual traditions teach transcendence of the ego and taking responsibility for the health of everything under the sun. In genesis god’s original task for adam was to take care of the garden and to be satisfied in this humble capacity. Instead, mankind found themselves naked and ashamed.
   I want to change the way we see everything. This is a lengthy project and I have to bring this post to some sort of resting point some time, so I’ll try to briefly indicate what I want to talk about.
   In the beginning was the void, and god said “let there be light.” In other words, “in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god.”
   A question I have returned to again and again in my contemplations is “what is light?” in the spiritual, imaginal, intellectual sense. What is clarity? What, indeed, is existence?
   “Light” is consciousness, awareness. Insight. By shining into the dark, it brings things into the light, into existence. Without light no things appear, and it is due to the appearance of actual things that we can project that all we don’t see exists. Pittsburg, the eiffel tower, the atlantic ocean - I can’t see them but I presume they exist, along with stars and dandelions.
  The old world-view tells you that things exist in themselves. (Even kant knew better, let alone heraclitus, the buddha, lao tzu, etc.) We (our culture, in general - the “they-self”)  imagine our selves to be internal to our bodies and that we are walking about in a world chock full of real objects which exist of themselves. The new world view involves seeing that the only objects which exist do so in relation to a human subject.
   We take existence to be reality. We take our consciousness to hold the entire universe, and imagine it includes everything. So, first off there is the idea that existence is only what we know as very limited sentient (that is, conscious) beings, and that reality is vastly, vastly greater. Dogen likens our plight to that of a man on a raft in the middle of the ocean, knowing nothing of cities and continents and myriad living beings, and absorbed in his infinitely varied little stretch of ocean.
   Our true being is not just that of another object. We come into existence full blown, aware of ourselves as a historical being with a past and a future, and that we exist, here and now. We endow other beings, animate and inanimate, with being as well. In each of us the light of consciousness creates the world of existence. We attune our world to that of “others” and constantly make it more consistent with “they.”
   We invent a past to suit our desires and project a future of fulfilled desires, towards which we strive. Absorbed in this striving, in everydayness, consciousness contracts. We develop routines, habits, and save ourselves the effort of thinking or confronting new things or learning new tasks.
   Or maybe we feel a conscience, some anxiety, and we wonder “who am I” and “what is there worthwhile to do?” In this manner consciousness expands.
   I’m going to taper off here with the idea I hope I have conveyed that reality is a great void and that consciousness is a tiny light in a dark little corner, and it is in danger. We need a consciousness that can help us cope with the demise of our planetary environment.
   And we need it tout suit (and the tooter, the sweeter.)

terry


CONFESSIONS - BOOK ELEVENCHAPTER XIV
17. There was no time, therefore, when thou hadst not made anything, because thou hadst made time itself. And there are no times that are coeternal with thee, because thou dost abide forever; but if times should abide, they would not be times.
For what is time? Who can easily and briefly explain it? Who can even comprehend it in thought or put the answer into words? Yet is it not true that in conversation we refer to nothing more familiarly or knowingly than time? And surely we understand it when we speak of it; we understand it also when we hear another speak of it.
What, then, is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks me, I do not know. Yet I say with confidence that I know that if nothing passed away, there would be no past time; and if nothing were still coming, there would be no future time; and if there were nothing at all, there would be no present time.
But, then, how is it that there are the two times, past and future, when even the past is now no longer and the future is now not yet? But if the present were always present, and did not pass into past time, it obviously would not be time but eternity. If, then, time present--if it be time--comes into existence only because it passes into time past, how can we say that even this is, since the cause of its being is that it will cease to be? Thus, can we not truly say that time is only as it tends toward nonbeing?


   
   
striking out

   Since so far I can’t follow current discussions, perhaps I will strike out on my own and initiate a thread I can follow. 
   I’ve been thinking about my project. A first, actually, not usually finding any need to project outcomes. Still, the perennial questions for any endeavor is why am I doing this and what am I doing. Question mark.
   We have the mindset, the weltanschuung, of an industrial culture. We are conquering nature,  and being fruitful and multiplying. A philosophy of production and consumption, and the more the better. But we live in a world which simply will not sustain our current trajectory as a “successful” species.
   If the planet and its living being(s) is considered as an entity, an organism, it has become unhealthy. Global warming, proliferating zoonoses, pollution, depletion of resources, catastrophic declines in biodiversity… It seems that total collapse of the web of life (and incidentally the food chain) are not only inevitable but imminent.
   Any facing up to and dealing with this Situation requires a step back from everydayness and the development of a sense of what is needed to restore the world organism to health.
   Every generation is born perfectly ignorant and needs to be educated. As the proverb goes: “learn one, do one, teach one.” In this manner each generation is brought up to speed and then cycles down. There is always “progress” in the sense of forward movement but it is not always toward positive goals. Now we speak of overpopulation and obesity where once we scrabbled for calories and struggled to keep our young alive.
   Now we need to be concerned, all of us, with the survival of our world, the continued existence of our race and our relations.
   My project involves tweaking the mindset, I perceive. (Let them eat tweaks. Or, tweakies.)
 We’re pretty much stuck in the 1600s with descartes, in whom the baby truly left the bathwater and went down the plughole. Formerly most people considered scientific progress secondary to spiritual progress. Cartesian radical doubt eliminated spiritual imagination and diverted attention into to the ego and its ability to impose its will on matter. Anything immaterial is set asides doubtful, and eventually fades from vision altogether. Now we mostly see a world only of physical objects, and imagination is hazy at best. Where once it was as vivid as daytime.
   Many of can agree now that spiritual progress may be the only solution to a sustainable relationship with our world. Many still think science will bail us out. Certainly the current administration imagines we can green energy our way to sustaining current levels of energy use, which is so obviously absurd one wonders how they can so delude themselves, or if it is all cynicism and exploitation. Radical conservation would be the cornerstone of any effective strategy to reduce global warming and there is not a moment to lose. When it gets bad enough people will acknowledge the problems and burn to solve them. Millennials are due their wake up call, if they are not oversleeping.

   Our culture as we transmit it to our young is historical. Our best ideas go back to the buddha, to lao/chuang taoism, to the prophets and the greeks. All our spiritual traditions teach transcendence of the ego and taking responsibility for the health of everything under the sun. In genesis god’s original task for adam was to take care of the garden and to be satisfied in this humble capacity. Instead, mankind found themselves naked and ashamed.
   I want to change the way we see everything. This is a lengthy project and I have to bring this post to some sort of resting point some time, so I’ll try to briefly indicate what I want to talk about.
   In the beginning was the void, and god said “let there be light.” In other words, “in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god.”
   A question I have returned to again and again in my contemplations is “what is light?” in the spiritual, imaginal, intellectual sense. What is clarity? What, indeed, is existence?
   “Light” is consciousness, awareness. Insight. By shining into the dark, it brings things into the light, into existence. Without light no things appear, and it is due to the appearance of actual things that we can project that all we don’t see exists. Pittsburg, the eiffel tower, the atlantic ocean - I can’t see them but I presume they exist, along with stars and dandelions.
  The old world-view tells you that things exist in themselves. (Even kant knew better, let alone heraclitus, the buddha, lao tzu, etc.) We (our culture, in general - the “they-self”)  imagine our selves to be internal to our bodies and that we are walking about in a world chock full of real objects which exist of themselves. The new world view involves seeing that the only objects which exist do so in relation to a human subject.
   We take existence to be reality. We take our consciousness to hold the entire universe, and imagine it includes everything. So, first off there is the idea that existence is only what we know as very limited sentient (that is, conscious) beings, and that reality is vastly, vastly greater. Dogen likens our plight to that of a man on a raft in the middle of the ocean, knowing nothing of cities and continents and myriad living beings, and absorbed in his infinitely varied little stretch of ocean.
   Our true being is not just that of another object. We come into existence full blown, aware of ourselves as a historical being with a past and a future, and that we exist, here and now. We endow other beings, animate and inanimate, with being as well. In each of us the light of consciousness creates the world of existence. We attune our world to that of “others” and constantly make it more consistent with “they.”
   We invent a past to suit our desires and project a future of fulfilled desires, towards which we strive. Absorbed in this striving, in everydayness, consciousness contracts. We develop routines, habits, and save ourselves the effort of thinking or confronting new things or learning new tasks.
   Or maybe we feel a conscience, some anxiety, and we wonder “who am I” and “what is there worthwhile to do?” In this manner consciousness expands.
   I’m going to taper off here with the idea I hope I have conveyed that reality is a great void and that consciousness is a tiny light in a dark little corner, and it is in danger. We need a consciousness that can help us cope with the demise of our planetary environment.
   And we need it tout suit (and the tooter, the sweeter.)

terry


CONFESSIONS - BOOK ELEVENCHAPTER XIV
17. There was no time, therefore, when thou hadst not made anything, because thou hadst made time itself. And there are no times that are coeternal with thee, because thou dost abide forever; but if times should abide, they would not be times.
For what is time? Who can easily and briefly explain it? Who can even comprehend it in thought or put the answer into words? Yet is it not true that in conversation we refer to nothing more familiarly or knowingly than time? And surely we understand it when we speak of it; we understand it also when we hear another speak of it.
What, then, is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks me, I do not know. Yet I say with confidence that I know that if nothing passed away, there would be no past time; and if nothing were still coming, there would be no future time; and if there were nothing at all, there would be no present time.
But, then, how is it that there are the two times, past and future, when even the past is now no longer and the future is now not yet? But if the present were always present, and did not pass into past time, it obviously would not be time but eternity. If, then, time present--if it be time--comes into existence only because it passes into time past, how can we say that even this is, since the cause of its being is that it will cease to be? Thus, can we not truly say that time is only as it tends toward nonbeing?


   
   




   




   
   

   





   
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
wow, that was fast! way faster than my short replies...
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
sorry for all the dupes, it's deathray's fault...
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 6068 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Well, it was worth repeating. 
genaro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
terry i'm intrigued, you have a thread!

you say a lot and I'm confused.

Two questions:

1) this project - is it a terry project or does it involve other people ie are you about to become a blogger/influencer/guru/pundit/politician/mercenary/prosletiszer/marketing executive/author? [1]

2) you mention time a bit and also the deep past eg the greeks. do you have any particular emphasis on Kronos or Kairos? [2]

3) are you about to declaim some of your own verses perhaps? [3]

Stay cool and enjoy!



--
footnotes
[1] in other words are you looking to influence people or looking for followers?
[2] hey I'm not particulary clever or educated, there just happened to be a column in the FT weekend about time, it was too good to waste lol. yet it's a question.
[3] would be good to see what you can come up with, given that you have a history of quoting a lot of other peeps.

And no I didn't expect the third question here (no-one did), but I'm sure you know the script
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
(thanks, linda)



genaro posted and I pasted:

(quote)

terry i'm intrigued, you have a thread!

you say a lot and I'm confused.

Two questions:

1) this project - is it a terry project or does it involve other people ie are you about to become a blogger/influencer/guru/pundit/politician/mercenary/prosletiszer/marketing executive/author? [1]

2) you mention time a bit and also the deep past eg the greeks. do you have any particular emphasis on Kronos or Kairos? [2]

3) are you about to declaim some of your own verses perhaps? [3]

Stay cool and enjoy!



--
footnotes
[1] in other words are you looking to influence people or looking for followers?
[2] hey I'm not particulary clever or educated, there just happened to be a column in the FT weekend about time, it was too good to waste lol. yet it's a question.
[3] would be good to see what you can come up with, given that you have a history of quoting a lot of other peeps.

And no I didn't expect the third question here (no-one did), but I'm sure you know the script
(unquote)


aloha genaro,

   Yeah, I rarely post a thread, in the past they have often not been well attended. It's ony because I have so far not figured out how to participate otherwise and yet retain some semblance of a familiar style. You know, you and me, and all the other special persons on a similar quest of self-discovery.

   I haven't said much so far and intend to say even less, one of the significances of "striking out." 

   The project is mine and ours, me and you, dialectic or dia-logos. I can foreshadow an explication of our oneness once having established our nothingness. Our significance and its basis of insignificance. Order and chaos. Heaven and earth. Yang and yin. Alpha and omega. (It's all one.)

   The question of labels (words) is amusing because I intend to undermine and establish those as well. Strike them out and reveal what they conceal.

   I beat followers off with a stick. I warn them against being influenced. (Not that I'm unapproachable; bodhidharma accepted eka. After all.) As dante read when entering the underworld: "all hope abandon ye who enter here." As I said, I want to change the way we see everything. If you don't have room in your house for a elephant, don't make friends with a elephant keeper. If anything, I'm fishing without a net or line for the great golden fish which leaps into the boat of its own accord. Seeking the harvest of the third year's fields without having sown or cultivated to that end. The dealer looking for a joker so high and wild he'll never have to deal another. If anything.

   I often burst into poetry, and the line between discursive and poetic can be hard to draw. Perhaps one day I will write verse. Maybe when my bodhisattva becomes a real girl. Could happen anyday. I'm a miner for a heart of gold, and, uh...umm.

   As for quoting peeps, so often they say what I am trying to convey in words of such grandeur and significance that reading them more than conveys an idea, it conveys the history of human thought and the potentials of being human. The clarity of heidegger's "what is metaphysics"  maked me simply want to recommend reading it, and I could quote lots of it if I wanted to scissor it up, but the whole of it is uniformly brilliant, the high water mark of western philosophy.

(not the best translation, but ready to hand)
https://www.stephenhicks.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/heideggerm-what-is-metaphysics.pdf

   Even so, heidegger was writing mostly for other philosophers (especially carnap and the logical positivists) and my audience, if any, is my fellow meditators who in my view are far more qualified for knowledge than students of thought using discursive methods.

   Is my project then for you and not me, or me and not you?  If I can make the great matter clear to me, I can make it clear to anyone. I am some one.

   Kronos and kairos are a wonderful way to take a dip into the freshness of greek thought on these subjects we so boringly and stupefyingly take for granted. We imagine an objective world but it has become anything but due to the very blindness we have to our own subjectivity, individuality and imaginations.

   Kronos is clock time, kairos is timing. The external and internal senses of time were (at least) equal to the greeks and now we know nothing of timing, unless we are professional comics or some kind of artist. (Watch lucille ball always pick the perfect moment for a retort. Or leave it to beaver's jerry mathers when he was in single digits.) This is peripherally related to my project in that I'm going to look at the phenomenology of nothing, which is  primordially entirely subjective, since there is only one of us, at most. Thus timing is everything. Time illuminates all of metaphysics. Space, similarly illuminating, is a matter of spacing, of placing near and far, close and distant. Physical space is as concealing as clock time and as superfical, unoriginal and inauthentic. And as heidegger quintessentially says, "nothing nothings." 

   Anyhows, bra, thanks for the encouragement and I will proceed to strike two, wherein nothing is indeed not something, yet something is truly nothing.

terry


angst or "dread" is the chaos which overwhelms order or reason, a mood we nearly always hold at bay by falling into everydayness, generally through idle chatter... it is "the gateway to all mystery' (tao te ching)...


“Negation is not the most original experience of the nothing. Whether expressed or implied, the act of negation does permeate all our thinking in so many ways, and yet it is not the best evidence of the revelation of the nothing essential to openness. Negation should not be seen as the only (much less the primary) activity in which openness relates to and is shaken by the action of the nothing. Cruel hostility and the sting of hatred go deeper than the formalities of mental negations. Painful denial and ruthless refusal are closer to – and bitter privation is a greater burden of – the nothing. These more primary possibilities of relating to the nothing - powerful ways in which openness puts up with but never masters its thrownness - are not sub-sets of the genus “negation.” However, that does not prevent them from expressing themselves in the “not” and “negation.” In fact they first reveal the depth and breadth of negation.

Dread is there but dormant. Openness is thus saturated with its relation to the nothing - evidence that the nothing is always, if obscurely, revealed even though dread is required to disclose it in an originary way. But this also implies that originary dread is mostly suppressed in our openness. Dread is there, but dormant. Its breathing ever stirs within our openness, not very much in the nervous, hardly at all in the yeas and nays of the busy bourgeoisie. It is most astir in the reserved, and most surely in the openness of those who take the basic risk. This happens by spending oneself on the essential so as to preserve the greatness of the open that we are.

This dread born of risk is not the opposite of joy, or even of quiet activity and calm enjoyment. It transcends such oppositions and lives in secret communion with the serene and gentle yearnings of creativity.

Originary dread can awaken in openness at any moment; no exceptional event is needed to rouse it. Its power is as deep as its possible occasions are unexceptional. It is always on the verge of springing forth but seldom does. But when it does, it seizes us and leaves us hanging.”

Excerpt From: Martin Heidegger. “What is Metaphysics?.” 
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
genaro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
well that's completely over my head.

so consider me beaten off with a stick

but somehow I've got tom waits' 'the ocean doesn't want me to day ' as an earworm, it's a song about the ultimate negation, that will be strike three i guess. 

​​​​​​​https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tomwaits/theoceandoesntwantme.html

(didn't watch the videos BTW i tend to skip most of those as i get chased by google demanding permission to steal all my data).
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
believe me, genaro, google already has all your data...
genaro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
believe me, genaro, google already has all your data...


terry: thanks for the nudge, I took the opportunity to select 'delete all after 3 months' and they said 'there's nothing to delete'.

FWIW i looked at my 'google account' which exists only because i have an android phone and they claim to have nothing on me at all except the few apps  downloaded and a very small number of emails they might have sent me. I downloaded 'all my data' and that was a 4.8Mb zip file which was almost all empty reports. 1.6Mb of that was a 'getting started' file on google drive. They claim they don't know where i've been!

There's basically nothing there they admit to having that i could ask them to delete, even the email they have is dead.

Try using Brave as a browser and DuckDuckGo for search.

Yes I don't believe google don't have data related to me, it's all filed under the mac addresses of every device i've ever used, and without an account linked to it it's all secret knowledge. Most of the pages on the web use google anaytics but theoretically i get to avoid that, and smartphone apps talk to each other so pass on data that should be not available, but i avoid them.  What i really want is a mac address obfuscator.


So yes maybe I could view you-tube (i have history and search turned off) but I take the view that minimum contact with the digital vampires is best. The last time i used you-tube direct i did it via tor, and after excerpt no 2 it started to complain re security issues :-)

Paranoid? Moi?  I've not yet met anyone with a smart speaker, but being me if i do I'll start talking about toilet seats a lot to prime the advert recommendations.  It's worth trying to lob a spanner into their machines.




Unrelated to all that:  your OP entitled 'striking out' i managed to misinterpret completely.  I grokked 'stepping forth' not 'striking out
as in erasing things' and completely missed the baseball metaphore, not being a goddam yankee.


best of luck with the project.
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
thanks, buddy...


I'm going slowly as it is easy to explain but hard to really change. I have to change myself.

Samsara is easy to propagate but actually getting out of the water is another thing entirely.

Communicating isn't enough.


I actually wrote a big chunk the other day but somehow deathray ate my data. Just as well. 


Anyhow, here is a contribution to the idea of followers. One doesn't help anyone by associating with selfseekers, and they are frequently met with. There needs to be a sense of mutual help or nothing fecundates.


from 'learning how to learn' by idries shah:


​​​​​​​
ATTITUDES OF DISCIPLES


People tend to think first and mostly of themselves. This can mean that when they hear of our work, they passionately desire to take part in it, to learn more, to benefit themselves personally. When they do this it always means that they are feeding their ownselfishness, and have become fixated on personal advantage.

On the other hand, when people come into contact with our ideas and spread them to others in the right kind of way (that is, not cultishly or by setting themselves up as teachers) they are sharing as well as taking something in.

Such people never clamour first of all to be received, seen, taught, and so on. They cultivate a group of people, spread this knowledge as best they can, and then they ask whether they should come or whether someone might visit them. They are, in fact, in a condition to learn and to serve as well as to be served. This estab­lishes the continuum of serving and being served.

Others, on the other hand, spend large amounts of money to travel, collecting it sometimes from others, and think only of themselves, even if they do not realise it. If they do not see this behaviour in themselves it is for us to point it out to them, so that they can profit from so doing, and learn to readjust their greed by establishing the serve and be served continuum. This is what my teacher taught me. He used to say: 'Many people think I am only testing them when I send them messages to this effect or if I do not answer them, giving them an opportunity to change their approach from "Give me" to "What can I do?" but you will see, in this very place, how the people who come here under such conditions turn out to be unreachable, mere metaphysical tourists.'

He was completely right. So, by refusing to teach, he gave them an opportunity of learning this behaviour of their own through self­ observation. Some of them, although only a minority, actually learned this. Of course, we have been able to cut down very much on this difficulty by publishing anecdotes where it has been shown by classical and other teachers how anxiety to learn is sometimes a mask for self-interest. This has enabled quite large numbers of people to adopt a correct posture towards the Teaching.

Learning how to learn is well illustrated by this kind of ap­proach, and this does show how one and the same person can be unable to profit from the Teaching while he or she insists on ex­tending this greed side of the personality towards it, and how the same person may be able to learn when applying the better and more promising side towards it.

But do not forget that there are just as many who do not know how to teach as there are who cannot, in their present state, learn. There is even the circumstance that people who think that they can teach, are unconcerned about the learning side.
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
genaro:
well that's completely over my head. so consider me beaten off with a stick but somehow I've got tom waits' 'the ocean doesn't want me to day ' as an earworm, it's a song about the ultimate negation, that will be strike three i guess.  https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tomwaits/theoceandoesntwantme.html (didn't watch the videos BTW i tend to skip most of those as i get chased by google demanding permission to steal all my data).
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I found the "reply with quote" button but haven't yet figured out how to use it like you did...<br /><br /><br /><br />anyhows, here's one about influence...<br /><br /><br />from the way of chuang tzu trans merton...<br /><br /><br /><br />​​​​​​​<br /><br />THE EMPTY BOAT&nbsp;<br /><br /><br />He who rules men lives in confusion;<br />&nbsp;He who is ruled by men lives in sorrow.&nbsp;<br />Yao therefore desired&nbsp;<br />Neither to influence others&nbsp;<br />Nor to be influenced by them.&nbsp;<br />The way to get clear of confusion&nbsp;<br />And free of sorrow Is to live with&nbsp;<br />Tao In the land of the great Void.<br /><br />&nbsp;If a man is crossing a river&nbsp;<br />And an empty boat collides with his own skiff,&nbsp;<br />Even though he be a bad-tempered man&nbsp;<br />He will not become very angry.&nbsp;<br />But if he sees a man in the boat,&nbsp;<br />He will shout at him to steer clear.&nbsp;<br />If the shout is not heard, he will shout again,&nbsp;<br />And yet again, and begin cursing.&nbsp;<br />And all because there is somebody in the boat.&nbsp;<br />Yet if the boat were empty,&nbsp;<br />He would not be shouting, and not angry.<br /><br />&nbsp;If you can empty your own boat&nbsp;<br />Crossing the river of the world,&nbsp;<br />No one will oppose you,&nbsp;<br />No one will seek to harm you.<br /><br /><br /> 
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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see?


from 'the way of chuang tzu,' trans merton
​​​​​​​


THE EMPTY BOAT 


He who rules men lives in confusion;
 He who is ruled by men lives in sorrow. 
Yao therefore desired 
Neither to influence others 
Nor to be influenced by them. 
The way to get clear of confusion 
And free of sorrow Is to live with 
Tao In the land of the great Void.

 If a man is crossing a river 
And an empty boat collides with his own skiff, 
Even though he be a bad-tempered man 
He will not become very angry. 
But if he sees a man in the boat, 
He will shout at him to steer clear. 
If the shout is not heard, he will shout again, 
And yet again, and begin cursing. 
And all because there is somebody in the boat. 
Yet if the boat were empty, 
He would not be shouting, and not angry.

 If you can empty your own boat 
Crossing the river of the world, 
No one will oppose you, 
No one will seek to harm you.
genaro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
terry ...

That's two or is it three posts that i interpret as replying/ directed to me, so i guess you want a response!  

I did like the quote from idres shah, very apt, i have deep respect for the sufi tradition, it seems based very much in practicalities. It seems familiar somehow.

Earlier when i said 'I'm confused' it was an allusion to the fact that you'd mentioned "Descartes, buddha, lao/chuang taoism, prophets, greeks, genesis, kant, heraclitus, the buddha, lao tzu, etc, Dogen, augustine", and many other things.

And heidegger was a bit depressing to read so i skipped that. (i bounced off it)


So I'll mention the boat thing.

You say "see ?", followed by a poem

I see something from this but I'm not clear about what point you're trying to pass on. There's a bit about the unskilfullness of anger (instead of evasive action for example), a bit about lack of personal responsibility (shouting rather than evasive action), and a bit about perhaps no-self (last verse), yet it's remarkably poor advice to someone crossing a busy road.  Yet seeking to not influence anyone (for example, 4th line in the poem) does not quite match with what you've said upstream.

If i said 'yes i see' what would you understand?
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
   “The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of the word is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.”

~chuang tzu


  We are caught in a trap, in nets of words. The tao te ching tells us: "more words count less." And, "he who talks does not know; he who knows does not talk." Zen requires "no dependence on words and letters." How are we then to communicate? Of course, it is words and letters themselves which inform us of their own emptiness. Like the ego telling us to abandon the ego.

   A paradox only because words make it so. Words were once tools but now have become our very environment, a veil keeping us from the world. Everything we see and do is a simulation of what we once knew as real.

  When we say, "I think," we feel sure that this, at least, is "true." "Think" is a verb, and a verb requires actor, so we assume for the sake of conversation that we - that is, "I" - are doing thinking. This is the disease, the root of mental illness. Samsara. Universal suffering. Aka "identification" or "attachment."

   I can't talk philosophy with "philosophers," who are all what plato hated and opposed as "sophists." People lost in egotism "using" "philosophy" for personal gain. The love of truth has nothing to do with it, indeed is despised as naive.

   Who can I talk to? Those who have "forgotten words," meditators. People who have confronted what we call "monkey mind," the babble that reveals itself when we take it as  a "whole mass of suffering" and deal with it as a monolith, something to be overcome. We begin a process, what we call a practice, of detaching from our "voices."

   If we then consider these voices as phenomena, they begin to reveal "who" they are, and "where" they are coming from. Like, they are nobody and come from nowhere. A thought comes into our head and if we are identified we believe that there is some real self who really exists and is us. The real problem being: this self who we imagine is thinking is not our real self at all.

   Our thoughts spring from all manner of instinctual fears and desires. The more attention we give them, the more we take them seriously, the more strongly they seem to be who we are. None of them are who we really are, they are our "crowd of inferiors," a veritable mob of would be usurpers of our consciousness and intellect. 

   Carol anthony comments on hexagram 52 of the yi jing:


"Meditation is a route to attaining clarity. Through it we disconnect ourself from the ego's dominance. When we first attempt meditation, we encounter restlessnes in the form of pressuring thoughts. For example, we may wonder why we make the effort. This wondering is the ego's resisting loss of its dominance. If we resolutely resist such thoughts and persist in our effort, ego separation begins. A space develops between ourselves and our ego. Thoughts that seemed to be our own now seem to come from elsewhere and we are conscious only of hearing and considering them. If we continue listening in this objective way, we may even see that they come from dwarf sized people with childish impetuosity: fearful and urging us to look or to act when worried, or gleeful when pleased. They are not unlike Snow White's seven dwarfs, some grumpy, some complaining, some self-pitying, some generous, some timid and some bubbling with enthusiasm. Both good and bad, they are our "inferiors." The point at which we can see and hear them is important, because we become aware of our true self - the eye that sees and the ear that hears."


   When the mob rules, we have mental illness. People listen to their voices and the more fear is generated by these voices the more compelling they become. Eventually one's "chemistry" changes due to chronic states of anxiety and depression, and they become habitual tendencies.

   These "demons" are in fact a mob of unruly children requiring discipline and love. One may laugh at their chronic stupidities and predictable concerns, restrain the powerful urgings, and treat with contempt the evil impulses.

   Once the gang is put in their place and kept there, we can be the eye and ear of god, the knower. We cannot speak, but we can listen to the dharma.

   So, this is you who I am speaking to, the listener to the dharma, those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

   I know that disciplinng this crowd and ignoring them is difficult, and takes a lot of practice. People have doubts, fears, and mistrust, and listen to and identify with these concerns. We can identify with our inner napoleon, and give the crowd "a whiff of grapeshot." Having real self-confidence is having confidence in the integrity if this "non-self" who is unattached, and is the opposite of self esteem, or vanity.

   The people who can detach and see things clearly are the two per cent, the elite, the pacesetters, the charismatic people who the crowd follows. The ones who let themselves go and channel the zeitgeist. The herd does not want to lead, they have problems of their own and lack any sort of confidence, unless it is in being a donkey and being skilled in smelling donkey urine in the road.

   Rarely, a gazelle is caught and put in the stable with the donkeys. Or a royal falcon is put into a cage with crows. Rumi's images refer to our true self being caught up with these dwarfs, our crowd of inferiors all clamoring for attention and driving us mad, or to drink. Our relief? "I take refuge in the buddha, the dharma, and the sangha."

   It is really these self confident free spirits I need to speak with. Like nietzsche, I could be content to think that they'll show up sooner or later, in god's good time, but as I have indicated, our time on this planet may not be long if we don't wake up soon, so we might as well roll the dice.

   It isn't a matter of desire to lead and show people the way, again, that is the opposite of what is needed. Anyone who can free themselves of the crushing dominance of ego and begin to deal with the Situation is one of the two per cent. It is a matter of taking responsibility for the dim and blind because you can see. Moi? Oui, vraiment.

   Take your insistent voices to a therapist and they will take them seriously, exactly the wrong thing, and probably offer you drugs if you won't pretend you have changed, the next exact wrong thing. Incidently, this "treatment" ensures that they will have lots more business down the road.

   Ditch your voices and you find you are with us, facing the Situation.

   In my next installment I will trace the loss of the world back to the learning of language. Eventually we can perhaps unlearn language as a veil and a snare and regain it as a tool for communicating ideas.


terry



from "ode on intimations of immortality" by wordsworth:


Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting;
The Soul that rises with us, our life's Star,
         Hath had elsewhere its setting
              And cometh from afar;
         Not in entire forgetfulness,
         And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come 
              From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
              Upon the growing Boy,
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows,
              He sees it in his joy;
The Youth, who daily farther from the east
    Must travel, still is Nature's priest,
         And by the vision splendid
         Is on his way attended;
At length the Man perceives it die away,
And fade into the light of common day.
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
aloha genaro,

   If you are going to skip the videos, you won't see.

   And the heidegger was the best part.

   Hopefully if you stick with it wome sort of insight will arise, probably something I didn't mean at all.

​​​​​​​   (winky smiley)

terry
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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I know this is long, but I resisted posting wordsworth's whole ode, which I consider perhaps the best poem ever written in the english language...

It's ok to skip but you may find it rewarding and germane...

(rumi wrote in persian...)

I painstakingly typed this in for a friend because I couldn't find a digital copy...




this is from “feeling the shoulder of the lion,” rumi, trans barks…





THE GAZELLE


A hunter captures a gazelle and puts it
in the stable with the cows and the donkeys.

The gazelle runs about wild with fear and confusion.
Every night the man pours out chopped-up straw
for the barn animals. They love it,
but the gazelle shies quickly from side to side
in the big stall, trying to get away
from the smokey dust of the straw
and the animals milling to eat it.

Whoever has been left for a time
with those who are different
will know how forsaken
this gazelle feels.

Solomon loved the company of the hoopoe.
“Unless she has a valid excuse to be absent,
I will punish her for not being here 
with the worst punishment there is.”

And what might that be? What the gazelle
is going through: to be confined somewhere
apart from your own kind.

The soul is that way in the body,
a royal falcon put in with crows.
It sits here and endures what it must,
like a great saint, like an Abu Baker,
in the city of Sabzawar.

Once the great king Khwarizm
besieged Sabzawar. They gave up easily.
“Whatever you require in tribute we will give.”

“Bring me a holy person, someone who lives
united with God, or I will harvest
your inhabitants like corn.”

They brought sacks of gold. They knew that
no one is Sabzawar lived in that state.
“Do you think I am still a child
that I should be fascinated with coins?”

For three days and nights
they called through the town
looking for an Abu Baker.

Finally, they saw a traveler
lying in a ruined corner of a wall,
sick and exhausted.

Immediately, they recognized a True Person.
“Get up! The king wants to see you.
You can save our lives!”

“I’m not supposed to be here.
If I could walk, I would already have arrived
in the city where my friends are.”

They lifted him above their heads on a board
like corpses are carried on
and bore him to the king.

Sabzawar is this world,
where a True Person wastes away,
apparently worthless,

yet all the king wants from Sabzawar
is such a one. Nothing else would do.

Muhammed says, “God does not look at outward forms,
but at the love within your love.”

The Qalb, the inner heart, that space 
in which seven hundred universes 
are just a lost speck,

we’re looking for that in the small,
seedy town of Sabzawar! And sometimes,
we find it.

One who has that love is like a six-sided mirror
through which God can look at us, here.

The gifts come through such a one.
His palm opens without conditions.
That union cannot be said.

I leave this subject with you.

Wealthy people bring money.
God says, “Bring devotion to one
whose loving mixes with mine.”

That love is what God wants.
That love is a mother and father
to us and is the origin of every living creature.

You might say, “Lord,
I have brought this heart-love.”

“Qutu, an ordinary town in Turfan
is full of this kind of love. Instead,
bring the Qalb of the Qutb, the soul
of the soul of Adam.”
 
God waits for that.
One may wander days in Sabzawar
and not see such a being.

The noblest native in Sabzawar might come,
and God would say, “Why do you offer this
rotting corpse? Bring the inner love
of one who can save Sabzawar.”

Just the sight of them together,
a native of Sabzawar and a True Human Being,
who might be traveling through,
is painful. Yet sometimes they talk.

A townsperson may behave kindly
toward a Qalb-person, but it’s almost always
hypocrisy. He nods and says yes.
He acts sincere, but he’s really tricky,
and looking for an advantage.

If a saint accepts his hypocrisy,
he’s saved, and that often happens.
The holy ones love to buy damaged goods,
and turn lying into truth.

If someone’s trickery seems charming to you,
remember he’s only your saint, not a real one.
Someone who is like you will often sound prophetic.

Renounce sensuality so you can sharpen
your spiritual sense. Your olfactory nerve
has been deadened. You cannot catch the fragrance
of sweet musk or ambergris. It’s as though
they no longer exist for you.

All this time, our gazelle
has been running back and forth in the stable!

For many days this precious animal
wriggles like a fish thrown up on dry ground.
Like dung and rare incense closed
side by side in a box.

One donkey says sarcastically, “This guy is wild!
He must be somebody special!”

Another, “With all his ebb and flow, he must be
making a pearl. Probably a cheap one."

Another, “Why can’t he eat what we eat?”

Another donkey gets indigestion and offers 
the gazelle his fodder with a formal invitation.

“No thank you. I am unwell too.”

The donkey is offended. “Don’t be so aloof.
Are you afraid of what people will say
if you’re seen eating with me?”

The gazelle doesn’t answer, but he thinks, 
“Your food is for you. It revives your strength.
But I have known a pasture by a creek
where hyacinths and anemones and sweet basil grow.
My food is there. Some destiny put me here,
but I can’t forget the other. If my 
body gets old and sick, still my spirit 
can stay new.”

The donkey seems to know what the gazelle 
is thinking. “Yes, anyone dan brag
in strange country. Who’s to know?”

The gazelle, “This musk gland identifies me,
but no one here has a nose tuned to that scent.
Donkeys like to smell donkey urine on the road,
and that’s all.”

Muhammed says, “True surrender is odd
in this world. Even ‘Islamic’ relatives
avoid a perfect saint.”

He or she may look human, but there’s a lion nature
inside. If you’re happy being a cow, stay away.

Potiphar, the king of Egypt, in a dream once
saw with his spiritual eyes seven well-nourished cows
and seven lean cows that came and ate the fat cows.

Lean cows are lions inside,
like a True Person who can detach you completely
from the dregs of your cow-nature

and make you so pure and spacious
that your foot touches Orion’s belt.

How long will I keep caw-talking like a crow?

Husam, why did you kill your rooster?

“Because I began to hear
the friend’s voice
inside me.”

A rooster loves lust, and lust again,
and instant satisfaction of lust,
that poisonous, cheap wine.

If it weren’t necessary for procreation, Adam
would have castrated himself in shame
over his own lechery.

Satan comes to God and says,
“I need some powerful bait.”

God gives him gold and silver
and herds of beautiful horses.

“Bravo!” says Satan, but his lip drops,
and he screws up his lemon face.

God throws in the other precious metals 
and the gemstones.

“Oh thank you! And might there be anything else
around here that I could use?”

God gives the marbled meats,
and the tasty sherbets,
and the silk robes.

“But I need something that will hold and keep holding
like a rope woven of palm-fiber,
so that your holy people can show their holy strengths
by bursting something very powerful.
I want an even more cunning lure.”

God brings wine and a harp.
Satan smiles a crooked half-smile.
Those are not exactly what he had in mind.

The suddenly, as though a dry path appeared
through the Red Sea, Satan saw the beauty of women,
and he began to dance. “More! More!”

The hazy eyes, the fascination of a soft cheek,
a cheekbone, a reddening lip, the glance
that burns a man like a cumin seed
on a hot fire-brick!

A young woman’s light, coquettish half-walk, half-run
springs to Satan’s eyes like a revelation of divine glory,
and a lifting of the veil.

Some comment on the text, We created man  woman
in the best physical and mental proportion,
and then We reduced them to the lowest of the low
.

The garden beauty, to which the angels bowed down,
after a time, was dragged by the hair
by Gabriel and led out.

Why? Why was paradise lost?
Why does a date-palm lose its leaves in autumn?
Why does every beautiful face grow in old age
wrinkled like the back of a Libyan lizard?
Why does a full head of hair get bald?
Why is the tall, straight figure
that divided the ranks like a spear
now bent almost double?

The bright-red anemone grows saffron.
Lion strength weakens to nothing.
The wrestler who could hold anyone down
is led out with two people supporting him,
their shoulders under his arms.

These are all messages from the fall.
What fault was committed?

God answers,
                       “The crime is
that they put on borrowed robes
and pretended they were theirs.

I take the beautiful clothes back,
so that you will learn the robe
of appearance is only a loan.”

The sheaf-stack belongs to God.
Human beings are gleaners.
Rays from the sun.

The earth-colored glass
makes everything seem diverse,
but that glass eventually shatters.

Your lamp was lit from another lamp.
All God wants is your gratitude for that.

Lend, is the divine command.
Make God a loan from your existence,
and see what fortunes accumulate!

Diminish a little, for your own sake,
all this eating and drinking, and watch
a new basin fill in front of you.

Then God may say, “Death, 
give back what you took.”

But you’ll turn away.
You won’t want those things.

Sufis throw away their wanting and their objects.
They abandon pieces of clothing in the dance,
and those articles are never returned.

They are given to the singer,
or divided among the dancers.

They arise from a briny, annihilating 
ocean into pure clarity.

They confront the world openly with its arrogance
and its hypocrisy. They are warriors 
for non-existence.

The planter works with the most joy
whose barn is completely empty,
the planter who works for that 
which has not appeared.

Second by second I know you’re expecting
some sure understanding, some spiritual perception,
some peace, but I am not allowed to say
more about this mystery,

or else I would create a Baghdad
in the wilds of the Georgia mountains,
and there would be no more doubting!
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
correction: I said, "might as well roll the dice" but I meant to say, "might as well go for broke"

​​​​​​​aloha
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terry, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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​​​​​​​The Second Coming 
BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst   
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.   
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out   
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert   
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,   
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,   
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it   
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.   
The darkness drops again; but now I know   
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,   
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,   
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
trusting soul that I am, I don't back up my posts before posting them...

I just spent five hours on a long post and it totally disppeared when "published"...

I feel bad about that, not wanting to do it again...


heraclitus says all human effort is like a child at the sea shore, building up structures and then kicking them down again, all in play...


I have to say I feel defeated here by deathray, the destroyer, I can't be doing this any more...
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Josef Kyle Chan, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 72 Join Date: 6/16/20 Recent Posts
Hello !

I still hope that you post terry emoticon  This is sadly the three marks manifesting as always 
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
​​​​​​​strike three...
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Chris Marti, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 4103 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Noooooo!

I'll miss you, terry.
genaro, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
terry ...

five hours of no doubt intense thought, not to mention blisters on your fingers ... yes i'd be pee'd off.  I hope it rhymed!
but hey, come on, resilience .... what you do this stuff for?
man up, why make such a sissy fuss* about it?  

here's a kind suggestion:

1) beam into the DhO and look at the page that excites you
2) compose something in a text editor, occasionally clicking on the 'save' button
3) when it's just jim dandy, log in to the DhO, and cut and paste the words into deathray, adjust the formatting and click on 'Publish'

I still won't understand what you say, but hey I'm weird.


* apologies,  i cannot resist a pun, especially when i visit the autism spectrum disorder spectrum.  and apologies to anyone offended by hetero normative cis gender conversational gambits, it was kind of forced by the pun, i have no particular attachment to the words.  *-o

may terry find renewed vigour!  may the DhO be redeemed!
may i stop sending stupid posts!
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Siavash ِ, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1449 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
 I will miss you too terry.

I hope you continue to post, if possibe, please.
Thanks. 
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
sissy fuss, I like that...it's an uphill battle...

continuing to post is going to be difficult if the machine rejects "long" posts...


I do have more I would like to share, though...I'll try to be brief...I'm not good at backing up...


so, to zen buddhism as post modern philosophy...
​​​​​​​

time and narrative...ricouer, marcel, merleau-ponty, I love them dearly...


the narrative creates the narrator: we become who we are by telling stories about ourselves and others, the internalization of the child's continual pretending...the stories all feature "selves" and anchor them in past-present-future....

most psychologists encourage this process, a process of selfing, of enhancing the self, taking control and navigating your life, wanting you to have more "good" stories to enhance self-esteem, which they mistake for eudaimonia, the good life...

buddhism recommends the opposite, unselfing, giving up the narrative, giving up past and future, living presently and harmoniously without fuss, passive or active...


as nietzsche says in ten sentences what others can't say in whole books, simone weil condenses the work of the above philosophers into a few paragraphs...like poetry, it needs a bit of interpreting...


simone weil says in gravity and grace:


RENUNCIATION OF TIME

Time is an image of eternity, but it is also a substitute for eternity.

The miser whose treasure has been taken from him. It is some of the frozen past which he has lost. Past and future, man’s only riches.

The future is a filler of void places. Sometimes the past also plays this part (‘I used to be,’ ‘I once did this or that . . .’). But there are other cases when affliction makes the thought of happiness intolerable; then it robs the sufferer of his past (nessun maggior dolore . . .).

The past and the future hinder the wholesome effect of affliction by providing an unlimited field for imaginary elevation. That is why the renunciation of past and future is the first of all renunciations.

The present does not attain finality. Nor does the future, for it is only what will be present. We do not know this, however. If we apply to the present the point of that desire within us which corresponds to finality, it pierces right through to the eternal.

That is the use of despair which turns the attention away from the future.

When we are disappointed by a pleasure which we have been expecting and which comes, the disappointment is because we were expecting the future, and as soon as it is there it is present. We want the future to be there without ceasing to be future. This is an absurdity of which eternity alone is the cure.


Time and the cave. To come out of the cave, to be detached, means to cease to make the future our objective.

A method of purification: to pray to God, not only in secret as far as men are concerned, but with the thought that God does not exist.

Piety with regard to the dead: to do everything for what doe not exist.

The suffering caused by the death of others is due to this pain of a void and of lost equilibrium. Efforts henceforward follow without an object and therefore without a reward. If the imagination makes good this void—debasement. ‘Let the dead bury their dead.’ And as to our own death, is it not the same? The object and the reward are in the future. Deprivation of the future—void, loss of equilibrium. That is why ‘to philosophise is to learn to die’. That is why ‘to pray is like a death’.

When pain and weariness reach the point of causing a sense of perpetuity to be born in the soul, through contemplating this perpetuity with acceptance and love, we are snatched away into eternity.

end quote


and this is analyzed with a zen buddhist perspective in the following article:


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23312521.2019.1567296



(smile)
George S, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 2204 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I like that - 'the internalization of the child's continual pretending' 

Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between giving up the narrative and suppressing the narrative ... it's just a narrative, after all emoticon
genaro, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
welcome back terry.

just write it all offline and then cut and paste , it's painless


that longish quote from simone made more sense to me that a lot of the previous stuff, & certainly a lot more fun than heidegger.
... but it will take a while to peruse the rest.
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
of course, heidegger was a nazi, but simone weil, aka "the red virgin" was never known as a "fun" person...

but yes, mysticism is more fun than philosophy...aeschylus used to make fun of socrates, a well known gadfly and bore, given to unseemly rages and personally ugly which was in itself offensive to greek sensibilities...but youth love to have their morals corrupted...

cutting and pasting is fine but not as spontaneous and throwing stuff you have worked hard at into the void is an habitual tendency....

the article linked is excellent,needless to say... linda might particularly find it interesting...

terry



"All joy is IDIOT JOY!
All wisdom is IDIOT WISDOM!"

r h blythe, from zen in english literature and oriental classics
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
the post that disappeared featured jean baudrillard and may have appeared (at first reading) as opaque and disturbing as the heidegger...

t



much of it was inspired by the following, which I used as a central text and expanded on a great deal; that part of my project involved exploring how as a culture we tend to mistake the sign for the real...the buddha recognized the sign world as one of karma, of cause and effect and the willing (sentience) which sees "things" that way, and expounded a dharma of the real involving the dependent coarising of phenomena, emphasizing direct perception without conceptual mediation or filtering (conditioning)...

you know, stuff like 'this is fun and that isn't'...

​​​​​​​anyhows:

quote:

Representation stems from the principle of the equivalence of the sign and of the real (even if this equivalence is Utopian, it is a fundamental axiom). Simulation, on the contrary, stems from the Utopia of the principle of equivalence, from the radical negation of the sign as value, from the sign as the reversion and death sentence of every reference. Whereas representation attempts to absorb simulation by interpreting it as a false representation, simulation envelops the whole edifice of representation itself as a simulacrum.

Such would be the successive phases of the image:

it is the reflection of a profound reality;
it masks and denatures a profound reality;
it masks the absence of a profound reality;
it has no relation to any reality whatsoever;
it is its own pure simulacrum.

unquote

jean baudrillard, from simulacra and simulation
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
from the oxherding pictures, kakuan shien as interpreted by d t suzuki:


​​​​​​​VII

The Ox Forgotten, Leaving the Man Alone


graphics7
The dharmas are one and the ox is symbolic. When you know that what you need is not the snare or set-net but the hare or fish, it is like gold separated from the dross, it is like the moon rising out of the clouds. The one ray of light serene and penetrating shines even before days of creation.
Riding on the animal, he is at last back in his home,
Where lo! the ox is no more; the man alone sits serenely.
Though the red sun is high up in the sky, he is still quietly dreaming,
Under a straw-thatched roof are his whip and rope idly lying. 
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
for example, the fashion industry, not content with ever more distressed jeans that simulate the effects of hard use and penury far beyond anything actual poor people would consider wearing, is now introducing simulated dirt...
genaro, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
I struggle to untangle learning sign, grasping sign, conterpart sign and more besides. (ok that's a diff context) the problem being that we make ourr own meanings of other people words.

"as a culture we tend to mistake the sign for the real"

IMHO we mistake words for reality more often.  Never met heidegger myself. I know i filter stuff sometimes it's by choice.

Simulacra .... Please don't go all Matrix, pleasse....

Can't we just follow the great  to mega therion and say 'manifestation implies illiusion' and be done with it?

There's no direct perepction, 'first access' via a sense door is already processed, bigly.

genaro, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
i promise never to try using that quote button again.
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
(cut and paste, painless...)

see you and raise...

(once again, bra, our society is crumbling fast...the child playing at the seashore hasn't noticed the wave bearing down yet...semi-seriousness is indicated)


more baudrillard, op cit:


Ethnology brushed up against its paradoxical death in 1971, the day when the Philippine government decided to return the few dozen Tasaday who had just been discovered in the depths of the jungle, where they had lived for eight centuries without any contact with the rest of the species, to their primitive state, out of the reach of colonizers, tourists, and ethnologists. This at the suggestion of the anthropologists themselves, who were seeing the indigenous people disintegrate immediately upon contact, like mummies in the open air.
In order for ethnology to live, its object must die; by dying, the object takes its revenge for being "discovered" and with its death defies the science that wants to grasp it.

Doesn't all science live on this paradoxical slope to which it is doomed by the evanescence of its object in its very apprehension, and by the pitiless reversal that the dead object exerts on it? Like Orpheus, it always turns around too soon, and, like Eurydice, its object falls back into Hades.

It is against this hell of the paradox that the ethnologists wished to protect themselves by cordoning off the Tasaday with virgin forest. No one can touch them anymore: as in a mine the vein is closed down. Science loses precious capital there, but the object will be safe, lost to science, but intact in its "virginity." It is not a question of sacrifice (science never sacrifices itself, it is always murderous), but of the simulated sacrifice of its object in order to save its reality principle. The Tasaday, frozen in their natural element, will provide a perfect alibi, an eternal guarantee. Here begins an antiethnology that will never end and to which Jaulin, Castaneda, Clastres are various witnesses. In any case, the logical evolution of a science is to distance itself increasingly from its object, until it dispenses with it entirely: its autonomy is only rendered even more fantastic - it attains its pure form.

The Indian thus returned to the ghetto, in the glass coffin of the virgin forest, again becomes the model of simulation of all the possible Indians from before ethnology. This model thus grants itself the luxury to incarnate itself beyond itself in the "brute" reality of these Indians it has entirely reinvented - Savages who are indebted to ethnology for still being Savages: what a turn of events, what a triumph for this science that seemed dedicated to their destruction!

Of course, these savages are posthumous: frozen, cryogenized, sterilized, protected to death, they have become referential simulacra, and science itself has become pure simulation. The same holds true at Cruesot, at the level of the "open" museum where one museumified in situ, as "historical" witnesses of their period, entire working-class neighborhoods, living metallurgic zones, an entire culture, men, women, and children included - gestures, languages, customs fossilized alive as in a snapshot. The museum, instead of being circumscribed as a geometric site, is everywhere now, like a dimension of life. Thus ethnology, rather than circumscribing itself as an objective science, will today, liberated from its object, be applied to all living things and make itself invisible, like an omnipresent fourth dimension, that of the simulacrum. We are all Tasadays, Indians who have again become what they were - simulacral Indians who at last proclaim
the universal truth of ethnology.

We have all become living specimens in the spectral light of ethnology, or of antiethnology, which is nothing but the pure form of triumphal ethnology, under the sign of dead differences, and of the resurrection of differences. It is thus very naive to look for ethnology in the Savages or in some Third World - it is here, everywhere, in the metropolises, in the White community, in a world completely cataloged and analyzed, then artificially resurrected under the auspices of the real, in a world of simulation, of the hallucination of truth, of the blackmail of the real, of the murder of every symbolic form and of its hysterical, historical retrospection - a murder of which the Savages, noblesse oblige, were the first victims, but that for a long time has extended to all Western societies.

But in the same breath ethnology grants us its only and final lesson, the secret that kills it (and which the Savages knew better than it did): the vengeance of the dead.

The confinement of the scientific object is equal to the confinement of the mad and the dead. And just as all of society is irremediably contaminated by this mirror of madness that it has held up to itself, science can't help but die contaminated by the death of this object that is its inverse mirror. It is science that masters the objects, but it is the objects that invest it with depth, according to an unconscious reversion, which only gives a dead and circular response to a dead and circular interrogation.
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terry, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
genaro said:

"There's no direct perepction, 'first access' via a sense door is already processed, bigly."



try consider the idea that sense-perception is actually quite direct, but that your attention is turned to simulacra so you are not aware of the world around you, at all...

in fact, you have been conditioned to believe that there is no real world of direct perception, that the senses are all pre-processed...so you are only aware of the "processing," the conditioning, the interpretation of events and not the events themselves...

this is the world of desire, of the will to power clouding the mind...one sees only tools and weapons on a background of struggling for advantage...


the other day I was on my way to ocean view from hawi going through kona and there happened to be an awesome sunset going down over kailua bay...I was thinking of pulling over just to glow with it when I noticed all along the road people had pulled over to watch the sunset...that made me glow all by itself...


​​​​​​​terry
genaro, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
"our society is crumbling fast..."  ... these are the end times! kali yuga in full play!  i blame the @internet.

Re JB:
have you read 'the lottery' by jorge luis borges (in the collection 'ficcionnes' translated into english as 'labyrinths') ?
JB in your quote also concocts 'the museum': a striking parallel with 'the library' from the same book (museum has all possible people, library all possible books)

BTW that prose is a bit overworked i'd like to opine, to the point of nearly obscuring the meaning.

if you like, knowledge is circular, or relative, and tainted by context. does anyone really have a problem with that?
is that startling in any way?

is anthropology racist? surely not? it's scientific after all ;-(  
didn't a lot of 'savages' (sic) just tell the ethnologists some stories to keep them happy/ get rid of them, making the studies relate to the perpertrators gullibility?

yes indeed science is not as much fun as mysticism, or alien conspiracy theories, but i have my tinfoil hat ready for when they come to ethnologise us lot. these are the end times. and that's fine.

had to check this:
​​​​​​​
simulacrum (ˌsɪmjʊˈleɪkrəm) or simulacrenpl -cra (-krə)
1. any image or representation of something
2. a slight, unreal, or vague semblance of something; superficial likeness
[C16: from Latin: likeness, from simulāre to imitate, from similis like]

yup that pretty much sums up anything i'm aware of.
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
aloha genaro,&nbsp;<br /><br /><br />borges labyrinths are heidegger's worlds..."whorled without aimed" (joyce)...<br /><br />the fact that simulacra are everything you are aware of is the very condition of not being enlightened...the point eing is that this condition might be regarded as a sickness, a prison, something to be healed or escaped, some freedom to be sought and realized upon recognition...<br /><br />yes, the library is a world, the museum is a world, the castle, the penal colony...the post office, the supermarket, the university, this virtual sangha...all these worlds made of simulacra, peopled by avatars...<br /><br />now we have "virtual reality" superimposed on the collective dream, the attenuation of reality indicated by baudrillard as progressively more remote-from-reality simulations are superimposed on each other, simulated capitalism, simulated democracy, simulated communism, simulated useful work, simulated art (and musick!), simulated food and drink, simulated sex, simulated adventure, simulated rest...simulated enlightenment...just buy the app, or play the rpg...fly to westworld and pretend it is there for your amusemen, have simulated fun...don't touch the mantas, don't disturb the dolphins, but slaughter the marlins ok, so we pay for your prison...<br /><br />money and power always were/are/will be simulacra, virtual extensions of desire, nonexistent dream fragments imposed on reality as forms existing only in the minds of susceptible persons...<br /><br />freedom is seeing all these forms as empty...<br /><br /><br />t<br /><br /> 
genaro, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
perception is 'quite direct'

​​​​​​​i rest my case m'lord
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
   The point of this project pnce again is to point out how words basically create worlds of existence that are culturally superimposed on reality in order to control people.

   That we are enslaved by words, only dimly realize it, and need to systematically practice to be free.

   The standpoint we need to attain involves abandonment of the ego-affirming worlds in which money and power have personal significance.


   The initial difficulty is that we speak in words, thus invoking the very chains which bind us. The thesis here is that there is a fundamental reality that cannot be characterized in words, but can be directly perceived.

   My words are not trying to explain a process, they are trying to grab this word-simulation-worlding by the throat and choke it to death, strike it out. Leaving only buddha nature, nondual reality, nothing superimposed, no dependence on words and letters.


   So...to the heart of the matter, once more: dogen says, "impermanence is buddha nature." In western terms, we need to unpack this, and deconstruct the obstruction.

   Impermanence is totally dependent on time. Past present future is the structure of impermanence as it goes whizzing by, they are the categories of our simulated reality, in which money and power, obligation and compulsion, are based.

   In our impermanent worlds, we are goal driven. The present is a step on a path to a goal. We can only live in the present but it doesn't really exist, it is a point in time with no length breadth or width. the future is always an as-yet-unrealized dimension, and the past just a memory, a trace. Time is a means to an end. Caught in this mental net of time we are transported out of reality into our prison.

   The tendency even when hearing the truth is to turn it into something that fits in the dream, like when the alarm clock goes off and you dream you are hearing a bell in a cityscape da doo dah. Try see that the present really is an empty category, and thus so is future and past, that once abandoned these categories no longer conceal the timelessness of the one pearl, which unfolds like an endless flower.

(try watch this video and mute the audio altogether:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWKCsrwA1PY)

   We automatically cope with old worlds and learn oew ones, its in our dna. No need for the assistance of ego, that hostage to fortune exploited the world over, time out of mind. 

   Dogen says, "practice is enlightenment." Forget the conditioning of society and just focus on practice. As practice becomes central, social conditioning is just more routine coping. Coping automatically without the assistance of ego we are at least assured we do the best we can. There is a certain grace that is at least internally unmistakeable.

   To say that, "the path is the goal" is not to confuse the two: practice is practice, enlightenment is enlightenment. Practice takes resolution and involves continuous effort. Enlightenment is free, it is our underlying condition. In practicing, we are enlightened; enlightened, we practice. Not two. The middle way.

   To say that, "form is emptiness" does not deny that form exists. Only that "existence" is a result of words, is based on (false) categories, is unreal and a detriment to living wisely and happily.

   So assiduously seek nonexistence. That is your true self. All else will be added unto you.

terry
genaro, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 89 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
I'm in agreement with all of that!

But i'll stand back and let you develop your theme. 

I'm most interested in excerpts based on yr own personal experience, in your own words, without reference to poetry, songs, suttas, gurus ... yet this is not posted as a practice log so maybe i'm wrong here.
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Chris Marti, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 379 Join Date: 7/7/09 Recent Posts
Genaro, I think what terry posted is a manifesto. If he posts a lot of additional words it'll get watered down and lose its impact. I like what he posted, as is.

emoticon
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
additional words for chris:


time flies like an arrow
​​​​​​​fruit flies like a banana
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Chris Marti, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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Very cool - thanks!
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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I have my moments...

​​​​​​​(wink)
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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The WASP (Texas Radio and the Big Beat)
Song by The Doors

I want to tell you 'bout Texas radio and the big beat
Comes out of the Virginia swamps
Cool and slow with plenty of precision
With a back beat narrow and hard to master
Some call it heavenly in its brilliance
Others, mean and rueful of the Western dream
I love the friends I have gathered together on this thin raft
We have constructed pyramids in honor of our escaping
This is the land where the Pharaoh died
The Negroes in the forest brightly feathered
They are saying, "forget the night
Live with us in forests of azure
Out here on the perimeter there are no stars
Out here we is stoned, immaculate"
Listen to this, and I'll tell you 'bout the heartache
I'll tell you 'bout the heartache and the loss of God
I'll tell you 'bout the hopeless night
The meager food for souls forgot
I'll tell you 'bout the maiden with wrought iron soul
I'll tell you this
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
I'll tell you 'bout Texas radio and the Big Beat
Soft, driven, slow and mad, like some new language
Now, listen to this, and I'll tell you 'bout the Texas
I'll tell you 'bout the Texas radio
I'll tell you 'bout the hopeless night
Wandering the Western dream
Tell you 'bout the maiden with wrought iron soul
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
me and my new puppy kala meditate together...

she is teaching me about wordless attention...

in only a few sessions she is a better meditator than me...

we do tantra...

​​​​​​​....................................
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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beginner's mind is the way...
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
genaro said:


I'm most interested in excerpts based on yr own personal experience, in your own words, without reference to poetry, songs, suttas, gurus ... yet this is not posted as a practice log so maybe i'm wrong here.


...................

I was going to publish a blank practice log once a year on april first but decided that would be crass...

"my own words" always have a context...at best that is suttas songs poetry and gurus (thank god)...

borges had a story about a fraying map that was coextensive with the entire territory, a concept he lifted from lewis carroll...this is a metaphor for the fraying of one's symbolic representations...for me publishing a practice log would be like a subvocalization of my entire existence, there is literally no time...


"my own experience" only resonates - only makes sense, common sense - if it is the experience of others as
well...I'm as boring at root as anyone else...open my guts and they look like any intestines anywhere...

t


bob dylan:

I'm just average
common too
I'm just like him
same as you
ain't no use talking to me
it's just the same as talking to you
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Love Came and Emptied Me of Self
(nobody, son of nobody)

Love came and emptied me of self,
every vein and every pore,
made into a container to be filled by the Beloved.
Of me, only a name is left,
the rest is You my Friend, my Beloved.

​​​​​​​

From: Abramian, Vraje (ed. and transl.), Nobody, Son of Nobody: Poems of Sheikh Abu-Saeed Abil-Kheir, 2001, Hohm Press: Prescott, Arizona, p. 13.
Date: 11th century (original in Persian); 2001 (translation in English)

By: Abū-Sa’īd Abul-Khayr (967-1049)

Translated by: Vraje Abramian (19??- )
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terry, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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"Nobody, Son of Nobody"...
Shaikh Abu Saeed Abil Kheir (Abu Sa'id ibn Ab'il Khair ) (967 - 1049 ce) referring to himself as "nobody, son of nobody" he expressed the reality that his life had disappeared in the heart of God. This revered Persian Sufi mystic from Khorasan preceded the great poet Jalaluddin Rumi by over two hundred years on the same path of annihilation in Love.


Until you become an unbeliever in your own self,
you cannot become a believer in God.

~~

If you are seeking closeness to the Beloved,
love everyone.
Whether in their presence or absence,
see only their good.
If you want to be as clear and refreshing as
the breath of the morning breeze,
like the sun, have nothing but warmth and light
for everyone.

~~

Beloved, show me the way out of this prison.
Make me heedless of both worlds.
Pray, erase from mind all
that is not You.

Have mercy Beloved,
though I am nothing but forgetfulness,
You are the essence of forgiveness.
Make me heedless of all but You.

~~

Piousness and the path of love
are two different roads.
Love is the fire that burns both belief
and non-belief.
Those who practice Love have neither
religion nor caste.

~~

Be humble.
Only fools take pride in their station here, trapped in
a cage of dust, moisture, heat and air.
No need to complain of calamities,
this illusion of a life lasts but a moment.

~~

Suppose you can recite a thousand holy
verses from memory.
What are you going to do
with your ego self, the true
mark of the heretic?
Every time your head touches
the ground in prayers, remember,
this was to teach you to
put down that load of ego
which bars you from entering
the chamber of the Beloved.

To your mind feed understanding,
to your heart, tolerance and compassion.
The simpler your life, the more meaningful.
The less you desire of the world,
the more room you will have in it
to fill with the Beloved.

The best use of your tongue
is to repeat the Beloved's Name in devotion.
The best prayers are those in
the solitude of the night.
The shortest way to the Friend
is through selfless service and
generosity to His creatures.

Those with no sense of honor and dignity are best avoided.
Those who change colors constantly
are best forgotten.
The best way to be with those
bereft of the Beloved's qualities,
is to forget them in the
joy of silence in one's corner of solitude.

Shaikh Abu Saeed Abil Kheir - "Nobody, Son of Nobody"

~~

from wahiduddin.net
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RE: striking out

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once again, with words, almost have to apologize for speaking...the silence is more significant, like the white paper or the blackboard...think of escher, the hand drawing the hand...

lao tzu told us, "he who speaks does not know; he who knows does not speak"...he said, "more words count less"...what was he talking about?

the very first clause in the tao te ching tells the story entire:

the name that can be named is not the true name


   
In the last episode I spoke of the emptiness of the concept of time, particularly the present, and that seemed obvious enough. But all words are empty. That is, empty of any real meaning other than what we imagine at the moment, meaning that is as ephemeral as a sunbeam.

   All things have a name. All names refer to a thing. Things are conjured up as if by magic by the act of naming them. By naming, emptiness becomes form. In the quranic metaphor, "God says 'be' and it is." Language is the creator, and the created only exist as named, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god." (john 1:1)

   Where buddhism intersects with this is to point out how anthropomorphic it all is. The world that exists for us is a human world, made in our image. We tend to think our world is the world, but all organisms have a unique species take on our common reality, a unique form of consciousness.

   Since nagarjuna, mahayana buddhism generally reflects the "two views" of nonduality and phenomenality. One of the more esoteric teachings is that enlightenment is the true state of all sentience, and that when one attains nirvana, all beings attain nirvana.

   Buddhism recognizes that human consciousness is a special case, a tool of tools, as it were, the mother of all tools. We manipulate reality, for sex and food essentially, by means of words, that is our magic. We measure, we coordinate, we obligate and compel, much like all social species including protozoa and bacteria, but we do it with words, with symbols. Our mind is in effect a third hand, and all objects are tools. (To my puppy, the entire world is a chew toy; to a human it is much the same. Ancient commentary on the yi jing hex 27 "jaws" says, "see how the jaws try to fill the mouth," indicating how the mind operates to obtain nourishment. Voraciously. Puppy's nickname is "jaws.")

   It is in the nature of a tool to be used. It's a cliche that to a man whose only tool is a hammer, all problems look like a nail. (Nietzsche, and after him heidegger, used to like to "philosophize with a hammer.") The purpose of a tool is to do a job, obtain a result. As meditators, we lay our tools down, give the mind/body a rest, open our minds to a reality of love, beauty and peace, as opposed to the constant striving of the tool-user. In this space, this clearing, we may perceive the true reality that underlies the experience of all sentience.

   I have a tee shirt that shows the evolution of man from fish to human, and the last panel shows the buddha sitting in meditation. Our species is absurdly young, certainly less than a million years, socialized for 100,000 years,  civilized for 10,000, industrialized for 200 years, and likely extinct pdq. Our only chance is to attain a transpersonal perspective as a species, and save the planet from ourselves. Nirvana is an imperative if we are to survive. It is the adulthood of our species, and we are out of control juveniles, veritable 800 lb babies, puppies who will chew anything to bits with no idea of its true use and can only be deterred by physical intervention.

   Be that as it may... by transcending the use of tools through detachment and "holy indifference" or amor fati, we see how the use of words involves the whole world of subject and object, of ego and other, of the "struggle for existence."

   The name tha can be named is not the true name. Names are only symbols, a shorthand, beads on a mental abacus. Manipulated for a purpose, in this case word medicine for word disease.

   Primitive man saw something snaking through the grass. He knew that some things that snake through the grass can bite and cause wounds that fester and poison the blood. He says to his comrade "snake" and points, and is understood. The troop is advised, "snake" and they take defensive measures. Now consider that most snakes are harmless and that many sentient beings scurry about in the grass, but for the humans the word carries menace and warning, and eventually anything that snakes in the grass is regarded with aversion. Eventually, even when an individual snake is fully cognized as a fellow animal, there is a negative association and comditoned biochemical reactions ensue.

   Or a tree. A tree is anything of a certain size that branches. A phone tree, a logic tree, the idea is superimposed on objects. So when we go into the woods and see a tree, we generally don't see a unique sentient being, thus come and of a certain suchness, we see a generic tree, something to be used as a tool for any one of many purposes, even if only to admire. We could instead wordlessly feel one with the tree as a breathing, living creature.

   Take horses, one of plato's famous pure ideas. When we look at a horse we generally see a generic horse used as a tool. Even if we look very carefully at a particular horse, we tend to see how this horse differs from the "average" or "normal" or ideal horse. We see an adjectival horse, a pale horse, a big horse, a friendly horse, and so on. In words, no matter how many adjectives we use, we never come to the true horse, the individual being, purely such as it is and representing the entire pearl, the coarising phenomena in its immediacy and in full technicolor and smellovision.

   Nothing is truly separate, everything is connected, not least our "selves." By using words to manipulate reality we establish ourselves as manipulators, as egos, and by doing so allow ourselves to be manipulated. Handled.

   Freedom, it turns out, is beyond freedom, is obscured  by the idea of freedom. 

   From the tao te ching we have the formula, "the name that is named is not the true name" and we can apply it thus:

the horse that is a horse is not the true horse
the chair that is a chair is not the true chair
the friend that is a friend is not the true friend
and so forth...

   From the diamond sutra we have the formula," To create a serene and beautiful Buddha field is not in fact to create a serene and beautiful Buddha field. That is why it is called creating a serene and beautiful Buddha field." Thus:

the horse that is a horse is not in fact a horse, therefore it is called a horse
the buddha that is called a buddha is not in fact the true buddha, therefore it is called a buddha
and so forth

   When one stops trying to manipulate objects, one comes into a new relationship with words. As chuang tzu says:

“The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of the word is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.”

  There is a world we all truly live in of freedom, where there is no compulsion and all is peaceful, beautiful and holy to the lord, to the happiness of all sentience, beyond generation-extinction. Beyond beings there is only being. Successful, prosperous, and wise beyond measure. "Life" doesn't die, has billions of years of evolution, and we are just fruiting bodies, mushrooms. Another failed attempt to perfect sentience adding to the ashheap of species extinction, in all likelihood.

​​​​​​​cheers!
terry


from the diamond sutra, plum village:

The Buddha said to Subhuti, “In a place where there is something that can be distinguished by signs, in that place there is deception. If you can see the signless nature of signs, you can see the Tathagata.”



   john 1:1-5

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


qu'ran 2:117

– He is the One Who has originated the heavens and the earth, and when He wills to (originate) a thing, He only says to it: 'Be', and it becomes.
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RE: striking out

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striking out in the sense of casting off...



from "A Study of Dogen" by masao abe

https://terebess.hu/zen/dogen/Study-of-Dogen.pdf

In Dogen, people are not essentially distinguished from other beings, but are grasped as a part of the realm of beings. People and other beings are equally subject to impermanence, or transiency. Although only people who have self-consciousness can realize the impermanency common to all beings as impermanency, they can overcome the problem of life and death only when they can overcome the transiency common to all beings. In Dogen both suffering and emancipation from it are grasped on this transanthropocentric dimension. Hence Dogen's emphasis on the simultaneous attainment of Buddha-nature for self and others, and for humans and nature. In this simultaneous attainment, each person becomes an occasion or means for the others' attainment just as each person realizes his or her own attainment. Here self-awakening and others' awakening take place at the same time. While maintaining one's individuality in terms of self-awakening, one serves as the means for the awakening of others. This dynamic mutuality takes place not only between the self and others, but also between humans and nature. This is the reason Dogen emphasizes, in the "Bendowa" fascicle, that trees and grasses, wall and fence, expound and exalt the Dharma for the sake of ordinary people, sages, and all beings. Ordinary people, sages, and all living beings in turn preach and exalt the Dharma for the sake of trees, grasses, wall, and fence. The dimension of self-enlightenment-qua-enlightening-others basically is fully replete with the characteristics of realization, and causes the principle of realization to function unceasingly. This mutual help for enlightenment between humans and nature, however, cannot take place insofar as humans take only themselves as the end. As Dogen maintains: "To practice and confirm all things by conveying one's self to them, is illusion; for all things to advance forward and practice and confirm the self, is enlightenment." The self must be emptied, for all things to advance and confirm the self. Accordingly, "to forget one's self" is crucial. To forget one's self is nothing other than body-mind casting off. And when body-mind are cast off, the world and history are also cast off. If body-mind are cast off without the world and history being cast off, it is not an authentic "body-mind casting off." Further, "body-mind casting off" is not something negative. It is immediately the cast-off body-mind, that is, the awakened body-mind that is freed from self-attachment and ready to save others. In the same way, the casting off of the world and history, which takes place at the same time as the casting off of body-mind, is not something negative. It is directly the cast-off world and history, that is, the awakened world and awakened history, that "advance forward and practice and confirm the self." Such are the implications of the notion of the oneness of means and end when that notion is applied to the understanding of one's personality and its relationship to other persons and other things. Here we can see Dogen's challenge to the contemporary issues of ecology and history. The crucial point in this dynamic mutuality between the self and others, and humans and the world, is to forget one's self, or body-mind casting off. Only when one forgets one's own self, and one's body-mind are cast off, is self-awakening-qua-awakening-others fully realized. This is not the "Kingdom of ends,” but the “Kingdom of dependent origination.”
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RE: striking out

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People are the astrolabe of God, but it requires an astronomer to use the astrolabe. If a vegetable-seller or a greengrocer should find the astrolabe, what good would it do them? From that astrolabe, what could they know of the movements of the circling stars and the positions of the planets, their influences and so forth? But in the hands of the astronomer, the astrolabe becomes truly valuable.

Just as this copper astrolabe reflects the movements of the heavens like a mirror, so the human being is the astrolabe of God.

“We have honored the children of Adam.”

Those who have been moved by God to see the one reality and learn Its ways through the astrolabe of their own being, behold moment by moment, flash by flash, the testament of God. Indeed, it is an infinite beauty that never leaves their mirror.

God has servants who cloak themselves in a wisdom, knowingness and grace invisible to others. Out of their excessive jealousy and love for God these servants cloak themselves, just like Mutanabbi says of beautiful women:

Figured silks they wore, not to beautify
But to guard their beauty from lustful eyes.


~rumi, "discourses"
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RE: striking out

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from "the book of changes" trans wilhelm


commentary on hex 52, "keeping still"


​​​​​​​ In its application to man, the hexagram turns upon the problem of
  achieving a quiet heart.  It is very difficult to bring quiet to the heart.  While
  Buddhism strives for rest through an ebbing away of all movement in
  nirvana, the Book of Changes holds that rest is merely a state of polarity that
  always posits movement as its complement.  Possibly the words of the text
  embody directions for the practice of yoga.

          THE JUDGMENT

          KEEPING STILL.  Keeping his back still
          So that he no longer feels his body.
          He goes into his courtyard
          And does not see his people.
          No blame.

  True quiet means keeping still when the time has come to keep still, and
  going forward when the time has come to go forward. In this way rest and
  movement are in agreement with the demands of the time, and thus there is
  light in life.
     The hexagram signifies the end and the beginning of all movement.  The
  back is named because in the back are located all the nerve fibers that mediate
  movement.  If the movement of these spinal nerves is brought to a standstill,
  the ego, with its restlessness, disappears as it were.  When a man has thus
  become calm, he may turn to the outside world.  He no longer sees in it the
  struggle and tumult of individual beings, and therefore he has that true peace
  of mind which is needed for understanding the great laws of the universe
  and for acting in harmony with them. Whoever acts from these deep levels
  makes no mistakes.
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RE: striking out

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once again diluting everything previous by cuttig and pasting more words..

how impermanent of me...


from rumi's "discourses"


Within our being all sciences were originally joined as one, so that our spirit displayed all hidden things, like clear water shows everything within it—pebbles, broken shards and the like— and reflects the sky above from its surface like a mirror. This is Soul’s true nature, without treatment or training. But once Soul has mingled with the earth and its earthly elements, this clarity leaves it and is forgotten. So God sends forth the prophets and saints, like a great translucent ocean that accepts all waters, and yet no matter how dark or dirty are the rivers that pour into it, that ocean remains pure. Then Soul remembers. When it sees its reflection in that unsullied water, it knows for sure that in the beginning it too was pure, and these shadows and colors are mere accidents.

The prophets and the saints, therefore, remind us of our original state; they do not implant anything new. Now, every water, no matter how dark, that recognizes that great water, saying, “I come from this and I belong to this,” is truly a part of that ocean. But the dark elements that do not recognize that ocean and believe they are kin to another kind, they make their home with the colors and shadows of the earth.

It was for this reason that the Prophet said, “Now there comes to you a Messenger from amongst yourselves.” In other words, the great ocean is that same substance as your own water, it is all from one self and one source. But for those elements that do not feel the attraction of familiarity, this failure does not come from the water itself, but from the pollution in that water. This pollution is mixed in so closely that the water does not know whether its own shying away from the ocean comes from itself, or from the essence of that pollution. And so, evil men do not know whether their attraction toward evil springs from their own nature, or from some dark element mingled in.

Every line of poetry the saints and prophets bring forth, every tradition, every verse they write, is like a witness bearing testimony. They bear witness to every situation according to the nature of the situation. In the same way we have two witnesses at the inheritance of a house, two witnesses at the sale of a shop, two witnesses at a marriage. So too, the saints bear witness. The inner form of their testimony is always the same;
it is the outer meaning that differs. I pray that God may cause these words to bear witness to God and you alike.
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RE: striking out

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the Muhammadian station:

I received the meaning of all the Divine Names and I saw that they all referred to a single Named and to a unique Essence; this Named was the object of my contemplation and this Essence my very being. I had only journeyed in myself and it was to myself that I had been guided; from that, I knew that I was a pure servant, without the least trace of sovereignty.
​​​​​​​
~
ibn 'arabi
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RE: striking out

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nonduality as perplexity...


from "contemplation of the holy mysteries" by ibn 'arabi, trans anga...number ten of fourteen...


10Contemplation of the
Light of Perplexity (hayra) as the Star of Non-existence ('adam) rises

in the name of god,
the compassionate, the merciful

The Real made me contemplate [the light of] perplexity and He said to me, “Return!” But I did not find where to. He said to me, “Approach!” But I did not find where. He said to me, “Stop!” But I did not find where. He said, “Do not withdraw!” And I was perplexed.

Then He said to me, “You are you and I am I.”
“You are Me and I am you.”
“You are not Me and I am not you.”
“ I am not you and you are Me.”
“You are not you, and you are not other than you.”
“The I-ness is one and the He-ness (huwiyya) is many.”
“You are in the He-ness and I am in the I-ness.”

Then He said to me, “The witnessing of perplexity is perplexity.”
“Perplexity is accompanied by jealousy.”
“Perplexity is the reality of reality.”
“He who does not remain in perplexity does not know Me.”
“He who knows Me does not know what perplexity is.”

Then He said to me, “Those who ‘stop’ get lost in perplexity; and the heirs become realized in it; the followers work towards it; the servants devote themselves to it; the veracious ones speak from it; it is the place from which the envoys are sent and the place of ascent of the aspirations of the prophets.”
“Whoever is in perplexity has reached happiness; whoever is in perplexity unifies; whoever unifies exists; whoever exists passes away and whoever passes away remains and whoever remains is worshipped and whoever is worshipped rewards; the One who rewards is the Most High, and the best of the rewards is the I-ness and in it is perplexity.”

Then He said to me, “Perplexity is not perplexity. It is only My jealousy towards you. Be jealous of Me and guard Me and veil Me and do not be revealed to other than Me in existence!”
“Make them stay in perplexity and do not point Me out to anyone. Bring them to Me and let them know about Me but do not let them know My place, and let them know about My place without letting them know Me. If they hold fast to My place they will find Me. If they find Me, they will not see anything. If they see something they will not see My place. If they do not see My place, then perhaps they will see Me.”

Then He said to me, “This is My garment. Bring it to them. Whoever puts it on is of Me and I am of him. Whoever does not put it on is not of Me and I am not of him.”
“Throw it into the fire. If it burns, then it is My garment and if it remains intact then it is not My garment.”
“If it burns, it is not My garment, but if it remains intact then it is My garment. Whoever puts on My garment is not of Me, and whoever leaves it is of Me.”
“Non-existence bears witness to perplexity: ‘I am God; there is no god but I.’ ”
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RE: striking out

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from a letter by karl jung, quoted by george steiner in "nostalgia for the absolute":



"l think, dear Dr. Freud," he says, "we must give psychoanalysis time to infiltrate into people from many centres, to revivify among intel­lectuals a feeling for symbol and myth. Ever so gently we want to transform Christ back into the soothsaying god of the vine, which he was, and in this way absorb those ecstatic instinctual forces of Chris­tianity for the one purpose of making the cult and the sacred myth what they once were - a drunken feast of joy where man regains the ethos and holiness of an animal. That was the beauty and purpose of classical religion."
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RE: striking out

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​​​​​​​from “dialectic of enlightenment” adorno & horkheimer



Odysseus's visit to the Underworld forms part of the oldest stratum of the epic, com­posed of actual legends…this oldest stratum also contains a tenden­cy which - as in the tradition of the journeys to the Underworld of
Orpheus and Heracles - most decisively transcends myth. Indeed, the motif of forcing the gates of hell, of abolishing death, is the innermost cell of all antimythological thought. This antimythological element is con­tained in Teiresias's prophecy of the possible placation of Poseidon. Odys­seus is to wander ever farther, carrying on his shoulder an oar, until he reaches a people "who know nothing of the sea and never use salt with their food." When he meets another traveler who refers to the oar on his shoulder as a "winnowing fan," he will have reached the proper place to offer a sacrifice to Poseidon. The core of the prophecy is the mistaking of the oar for a winnowing fan. This must have struck the Ionian as com­pellingly comic. However, this comic effect, on which the reconciliation is made to depend, cannot have been directed at humans but at the wrath­ful Poseidon. The misunderstanding is meant to amuse the fierce ele­mental god, in the hope that his anger might be dispersed in laughter. That would be analogous to the_neighbor's advice in Grimm, explaining how a mother can rid herself of a changeling: "She should carry the changeling into the kitchen, set it on the hearth, light the fire and boil water in two eggshells. That would make the changeling laugh, and if he laughed then that would make an end of him." If laughter up to now has been a sign of violence, an outbreak of blind, obdurate nature, it nev­ertheless contains the opposite element, in that through laughter blind nature becomes aware of itself as such and thus abjures its destructive vio­lence. This ambiguity of laughter is closely related to that of name; per­haps names are nothing but petrified laughter, as nicknames still are - the only ones in which the original act of name-giving still persists. Laughter is in league with the guilt of subjectivity, but in the suspension of law which it announces it also points beyond that complicity. It promises a passage to the homeland. It is a yearning for the homeland which sets in motion the adventures by which subjectivity, the  prehistory of which is narrated in the Odyssey, escapes the primeval world.
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RE: striking out

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so, if every word is a piece of frozen laughter, as adorno surmises, then

every word has the geometry, precision and beauty of a snowflake

if you get my drift
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RE: striking out

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from a history of zen buddhism, dumoulin



The Bodhisattva state is characterized by the Perfection of Wisdom (prajnaparamita) . Without wisdom, the other five virtues, as well as skill in expedients, are worthless. The Sutra of the Perfection of Wisdom says:
"Though a Bodhisattva should bestow gifts through aeons as numerous as the sands of the Ganges, and should observe morality, practice patience, apply energy, and persist in meditation ... if he were not embraced by the Perfection of Wisdom and emptied by skill in expedients, he would fall to the level of a hearer (isravaka) or a pratyeka-buddha. The Perfection of Wisdom is not to be realized without emptiness of the spirit. The unenlightened person hears the word "emptiness" and expresses his concept in signs. "The Way of the Bodhisattva is emptiness, or the way of that which is without sign." The Perfection of Wisdom is beyond all concepts and words. But above all, the Bodhisattvas, who "find rest in one thought" (eha-citta-prasadam), are freed from the concept of self. "In these Bodhisattvas no perception of a self takes place, no perception of a being, no perception of a soul, no perception of a person." Nor is their spirit hampered by the concept of Dharma or of the nonconcept. The Bodhisattva does not grasp at any concept; he clings to nothing. His Perfect Wisdom is void. This is the essence of highest wisdom: "A Bodhisattva-Mahasattva should abide himself in the Perfection of Prajna by abiding in emptiness.” 
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RE: striking out

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from "five zen classics; formative texts in the history of zen buddhism," eds heine and wright:


The famous dictum of the Diamond Sutra states, “X is not X, therefore it is X,” meaning that X is not actually what our senses and conceptualizing faculties have perceived it to be, and therefore we should not continue to naively understand things to exist in a reified manner and try to appropriate them. This exercise in perspectival adjustment, however, when adhered to in earnest, has a tendency to lead the practitioner to see things as being inexistent. What the Diamond Sutra is saying, however, is that since (1) a view of inexistence also does not describe things as they truly are, and (2) we cannot function in a world where no names exist, we have no alternative but to apply names to things. But when we do so, it must be with the correct, nonappropriating awareness. Since X does not exist, paradoxically the appellation X can (and needs to be) applied to it. This formula also can be understood as a way of expressing the truth of the middle way: “neither X nor not-X.”  In the context of actual meditation practice (as distinguished from a more logical or rhetorical formulation), this position is termed nonabiding, that is, not being trapped by one-sided notions of existence or inexistence.

While this exercise can be applied to any object, physical or mental, the target concepts of the Diamond Sutra are not just anything that may come to mind. Coming under the critique of the Diamond Sutra are the most subliminally held notions that one might attach to: self, lifetime, personality; early Buddhist notions of the stages of the path; the notion of bodhisattvahood, the transcendent practices, perfect enlightenment, Tathagata-hood, and so forth.

The discourse of the Diamond Sutra can be seen as a critique of the status of language itself…. The issue of whether language is an admissible vehicle for the transmission of the buddhadharma has continually been at the fore of the discourse of the East Asian meditative schools of Buddhism. 
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RE: striking out

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when we were young...

Carol and I went camping in some wilderness or other, with the commune and the dogs of course. We arrived at a likely spot. Carol surveyed the area and declared: this will be the kitchen, here are the bedrooms, and the bathroom will be over there; smiling all the while, inviting agreement.

The wilderness was the same before she named these partitions, the names have no physical form.  And yet, here we prepare food, here we sleep, here we poop. By naming we create reality and yet actually nothing s created.


I call my dog "kala" and so she is, but she still is just a dog, and a dog (or a feral human) is an organism, a radiation of life, a "part of the Continent, a piece of the Main" (donne). A glint of light from the True Gem. More real as another Nameless aspect of the  One Pearl than as "my dog kala" with all the formless baggage each word overlays.

Analysis kills the spirit and destroys the aura of any named thing.

Sages do not desire to be studied.
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RE: striking out

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analyst - separates

catalyst - combines
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RE: striking out

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Wittgenstein notes in 1937:

"Think­ing too has a time for plowing and a time for gathering the harvest."

    

​​​​​​​
And during the darkness of 1944:

"If in life we are surrounded by death, so too in the health of our intellect we are surrounded by mad­ness.” 



Wittgenstein's admonition of 1947:

"One  keeps forgetting to go right down to the foundations. One doesn't put the question marks deep enough down.” 



 "When you are philosophizing you have to descend into primeval chaos and feel at home there."  


…Wittgenstein, in his notebook for 1948



above quotes from george steiner, “poetry of thought from hellenism to celan”
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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THE LITTLE VAGABOND
(william blake)

Dear mother, dear mother, the Church is cold;
But the Alehouse is healthy, and pleasant, and warm.
Besides, I can tell where I am used well;
Such usage in heaven will never do well.

But, if at the Church they would give us some ale,
And a pleasant fire our souls to regale,
We’d sing and we’d pray all the livelong day,
Nor ever once wish from the Church to stray.

Then the Parson might preach, and drink, and sing,
And we’d be as happy as birds in the spring;
And modest Dame Lurch, who is always at church,
Would not have bandy children, nor fasting, nor birch.

And God, like a father, rejoicing to see
His children as pleasant and happy as He,
Would have no more quarrel with the Devil or the barrel,
But kiss him, and give him both drink and apparel.
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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" This craze for explication! Every i dotted to death!" (Catastrophe, samuel beckett)
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RE: striking out

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PSALM
(paul celan)

Noone kneads us again from earth and loam, 
noone evokes our dust. 
Noone. 

Praised be you, noone. 
Because of you we wish 
to bloom. 
Against 
you. 

A nothing 
were we, are we, will 
we be, blossoming: 
the nothing's-, the noonesrose. 

With 
its pistil soulbright, 
its stamen heavencrazed, 
its crown red 
from the purpleword that we sang 
over, o over 
its thorn. ”

Excerpt From: Paul Celan. “Paul Celan.”  
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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from paul ricouer's  preface to jean nabert’s desir de dieu

The whole difficulty resides not in the impossibility of separating, but in the possibility of distinguishing the thought of the unconditioned and the individual conscience. The idea of a reflection upon itself of thought, which 'becomes' consciousness of self… this idea contains a major difficulty, that of non-dual distinction, an identical distinction one might say…. There is no doubt that it is this distinction... which permits us to maintain the idea of God and the desire for God, as if maintaining an empty space for the understanding, at the beginning of an itinerary which... 'advances toward God instead of beginning with Him.’
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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from "living up to death," paul ricouer:


​​​​​​​…The religious is like a fundamental language that exists only in natural, historically limited languages. Just as everyone is born into a language and accedes to other languages only by a second apprenticeship, and most often, only through translation, the religious exists culturally only as articulated in the language and code of a historical religion; language and code articulate only on the condition of filtering, and in this sense limiting that amplitude, that depth, that density of the religious that I am here calling the Essential. Having said this, what the physician in the palliative care unit bears witness to is the grace granted some dying people that assures what I have called the mobilization of the deepest resources of life in the coming to light of the Essential, fracturing the limitations of the confessionally religious. This is why it is not important, this witness observes, for the quality of this moment of grace that the dying person identifies himself, recognizes himself—however vaguely his or her declining may allow—as one who confesses this or that religion, this or that confession. It is perhaps only in the face of death that the religious gets equated with the Essential and that the barrier between religions, including the nonreligions (I am thinking, of course, of Buddhism) is transcended. But because dying is transcultural, it is transconfessional, transreligious in this sense: and this insofar as the Essential breaks through the filter of reading “languages” of reading. This is perhaps the only situation where one can speak of religious experience. Moreover, I am wary of the immediate, the fusional, the intuitive, the mystical. There is one exception, in the grace of a certain dying.
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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from paul valery, “monsieur teste”:


   Stupidity is not my strong point. I have seen many persons; I have visited several countries; I have taken part in various enterprises without liking them; I have eaten nearly every day; I have had women. I can now recall a few hundred faces, two or three great spectacles, and the substance of perhaps twenty books. I have not retained the best nor the worst of these things: what could stay with me did.

   Such arithmetic spares me any surprise at getting old.  I could also count up the victorious moments of my mind and then imagine them joined and blended, composing a happy life. . . .But I think I have always been a good judge of myself. I have rarely lost sight of myself; I have detested and adored myself; so, we have grown old together.
   
   Often I have supposed that all was over for me, and I would begin ending with all my strength, anxious to drain and clarify some painful situation. This made me aware that we appraise our own thought too nearly as others express theirs!

   From that moment the billions of words that buzzed  in my ears have rarely stirred me with what they were meant to mean: and all I have myself spoken to others, I have always felt them become distinct from my thought - for they were becoming invariable.
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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HE ATE AND DRANK THE PRECIOUS WORDS
(emily dickinson)

He ate and drank the precious Words -
His Spirit grew robust -
He knew no more that he was poor,
Nor that his frame was Dust -

He danced along the dingy Days
And this Bequest of Wings
Was but a Book - What Liberty
A loosened spirit brings -
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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"I never hear the word 'escape'"
(emily dickinson)

I never hear the word 'escape'
Without a quicker blood,
A sudden expectation,
A flying attitude.

I never hear of prisons broad
By soldiers battered down,
But I tug childish at my bars, --
Only to fail again!




"By homely gift and hindered Words"
(emily dickinson)
​​​​​​​
By homely gift and hindered Words
The human heart is told
Of Nothing -
'Nothing' is the force
That renovates the World -
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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alan watts in 1960, speaking zen words 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN19k29e_Ys
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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might have posted this on the mystery thread...


from rumi's discourses



We sought everywhere for Solomon’s ring. We found his wisdom far from riches. Abandoning wealth we found that beautiful treasure. In poverty we took our repose, and our Beloved was pleased with nothing so much as this.

Well, I am a whoremonger. Since I was young, I have been a seller of love. I know this destroys barriers and consumes the veils of the heart. Love is the root of all obedience; all else is mere adornment. If you do not sacrifice, how can you gain your heart’s desire? Giving up everything leads to annihilation, the source of all pleasures where no separation exists.

“And God is with the patient.”
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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among those - besides animals and plants - who do not use words to speak  are the silent ones...


from rumis discourses

There are a hundred thousand ranks. The purer someone becomes, the higher up they are raised. This story of spiritual growth is a long one. Whoever tries to shorten it would shorten their own life and Soul, but for the grace of God. As for the prayer-songs of those who have attained union with God, I must speak within the limits of understanding—for their love and the purity of their voices attract holy spirits, pure angels, and those visitors whom none know but God—the Silent Ones whose names are hidden from the world out of exceeding jealousy.

You are seated beside them now, but you do not see them. Neither do you hear their speech, their greetings or laughter. Yet what is so marvelous about this? When someone is sick, they see apparitions that others cannot see. Yet these spiritual beings are a thousand times subtler than those apparitions, for while the average person does not see or hear such visions until they are sick, they will not see these spiritual beings before they die. Such spiritual visitors know the refined states and majesty of the saints. They watch from earliest morn, while a thousand other angels and pure spirits wait upon the saints. For this reason the Silent Ones hesitate infinitely—not wanting to intervene in the midst of such a chorus, or disturb the ones they wish to honor.

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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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from rumis discourses




It is stated that after Mohammed and the Prophets revelation will not be sent down upon anyone else, but this is not true. This is why Mohammed said, “The believer sees with the Light of God.” When someone sees with God’s Light, they see all things, the first and last, the visible and invisible, for how can anything be hidden from God’s Light? If anything is hidden, then that is not God’s Light. 

Therefore this is revelation, whether they call it revelation or not.

When Uthman became caliph, he stepped up into the pulpit. The people waited to see what he would say. He was silent and said nothing. He looked steadily at the people, and a state of ecstasy descended upon them so that they were unable to move, and could not tell where they were. Not by a hundred preachings and sermons could such an excellent state have been shown to them. Precious lessons were imparted and secrets revealed. Until the very end, he only looked at them like this, not saying a word. Then, just before leaving the pulpit, he said, “It is better for you to have a working Imam than a speaking Imam.”

What he said was the truth. If the purpose of speaking is to communicate instruction delicately to uplift the people, that had been accomplished many times better without words. So what Uthman said was perfectly correct. During the time he was in the pulpit he did no external work visible to the people; he did not pray, he did not go on the pilgrimage, he did not give alms, he did not commemorate God, he did not even speak the caliph’s address. Therefore, know that work and action are not limited to the outer form only, rather these visible forms of work are merely a shadow of that true work of Soul.

The Prophet said, “My Companions are like stars; Whichever of them you follow, you will be guided right.” When someone follows a star and finds their way by it, the star does not speak. Merely by looking at the star, they discover that invisible road and reach their goal. In the same way, it is possible by merely gazing at God’s saints to find the spiritual path. Without words, without questioning, without speech, the purpose is achieved.
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: striking out

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this too from rumi...


​​​​​​​Just as worn-out and ragged clothes conceal the elegance of wealth and grandeur, so excellent clothes and fine raiment conceal the mark and beauty and perfection of the saint. When the saint’s clothes are in shreds and patches, then their heart is revealed.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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"If a lion could talk, we couldn't understand him." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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the old man and me
(jj cale)


The old man he catches the fish in the morning
He rides the river every day
I sit on the bank and I holler when he passes
"Hey, old man, are they bitin' today?"

I wake up in the morning, thinking 'bout my troubles
I go down to the water and they pass away
And when the old man comes a-floating down the river
"Hey, old man, are they biting today?"
​​​​​​​"Hey, old man, are they biting today?"

Now here we've got a thing that keeps on rolling
It ain't heavy, don't take it that way
The old man and me, we got a good thing going
He catches fish and I sit all day
He catches fish and I sit all day...
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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from "the second book of the tao," chuang tzu/stephen mitchell


20
The ancient Masters 
didn’t worry about the future 
and didn’t regret the past. 
When they made a mistake, 
they corrected it and moved on; 
when they achieved something, 
they didn’t stop to take credit. 
They scaled the heights, never dizzy; 
plumbed the depths, unafraid. 
Wherever they went in the world, 
they were at home. 
They realized that the less they knew, 
the more they understood. 
Thus they embodied the Tao.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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"The soul is the prison of the body."

~michel foucault
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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zen saying (on zen stink):

"Knowing the buddha nature is the prime disease of our sect."
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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(flexing my fingers)

moving on with the project...


   In the sufi traditions, existence comes about by means of "the Names," which is to say, the creative power of language. There is an inherent obstacle in trying to explain the power of language in language; a painting of the ocean is not the ocean. We must begin realizing the entire ocean of existence (as we know it, which is to say, in consciousness) is a function of thought, of projection, and is conditioned by language in all its messy semi-universality. Words can only be defined in words, and the words themselves are slippery and always being built up or eroded, never staying the same. We change a word every time we use it; language "evolves" through mistakes, deliberate and otherwise.

   Another sufi tradition comes from the hadith, "(God saidemoticon I was a hidden treasure and I desired to be known." As with the judaic "I am" we have a Self by its self nature coming into existence through desire. We may unpack this to mean: all of existence comes about from the desire to know and be known.

   Now, lets pair that with the buddhist notion that desire creates suffering. And the taoist notion of relativity, that pairs of opposites in the end amount to the same thing seen from different sides.

   Through desire, the Self/self, through love of the good, the true, the beautiful, the healthy, the secure, creates the bad, the false, the ugly, the sick, and the insecure. Through desire, the entire world of consciousness in every detail is created. Every good thing is balanced by something equally bad. We are conditioned to chase the good true and beautiful and we inevitably create their oppsites. We seek the light from the depths of shadow.

   As a child grows older, she is taught to discriminate. Adults delight in "kidding" the young and rarely perceive how very confusing this is for a child, and how early they begin to doubt everything told them by the capricious gods of knowledge, for fear they are being "kidded." We early learn to sift and search for the truth amidst deception, and rarely realize that doing so only creates more deception, more lies. The more we bring things into the light, the more they show their dark sides. The more we prize sanity, the crazier things get. The darker and crazier, the more we obsessively seek relief. This vicious cycle is known as samsara.

   There is a solution to this. The taoists say, "return to the uncarved block." Return to that state of undifferentiated nature where things are naturally balanced. "Dim the brightness, blunt the shadows." To exaggerate ones brightness is to conceal ones darkness.

   There is a higher truth, one that cannot be known, only lived. As meister eckhart noted, to give up the self is to give up god as well. To live in undifferentiated wholliness, a compassionate smile for the all-of-humanity one is-and-isnt.

   Meditation, we like to say, is where "the rubber meets the road." In "just sitting," we try to simply drop anything that arouses word-consciousness. We may feel our heart beat, our breath, ambient sound and light and air, but drop conceptualizing. This is nothing special, animals all do it. A dog has memory, has dreams, has wants and instincts, jealousy and affection, all without words or concepts. But for us it is a revelation, this at-homeness in the world, this oneness with all-of-perception. We join all of sentient being in the goodness and light of Life.

   Then we reemerge into existence and suddenly life has its cares and troubles, suffering and confusion. We turn to nonexistence for refuge, to alcohol, drugs, sleep, tv, fantasy; or to the buddha, the dharma, the sandbox. What are we seeking? Oblivion?

   We are seeking the uncarved block, the undifferentiated whole and natural status of the fully evolved creature. A duck is a duck, a salamander a salamander, a deer a deer, but diogenes could search the agora all day in the midst of a golden age and not find a real human being.

   The "true man of no distinction," un homme sans affaires, is unconscious of his status. This person makes no distinctions, sees all things changing into their opposites and thus are no things at all. That there are names reflects the needs and desires of humans. In itself this is fine but when ones world is solely composed of the needs and desires of humans one loses oneself in the conditoned they-self. Ones uses people and is used in turn in a circle jerk of obligations.

   But it truly isnt essentially a matter of right and wrong, of authenticity and inauthenticity. There is no absolute right and wrong, all things change and so quickly that any assertion is bound to be wrong and seem wronger the more time goes on.

   It is a matter of seeing that ones conditioning creates desire and desire creates existence. We have no real stake in this, no investment in the ride. Life twirls along and consciousness more and more realizes that it is no more than a witness having no power and making no decisions, despite all ever-arising delusions to the contrary.

   Through practice, consciousness, once the lord of all it surveyed, diminishes in the face of the greater and greater realization that there is vastly more going on here. That this greater-reality-than-mere-consciousness can be appreciated and participated in but not used for conditioned purposes, for personal or collective ends. The sufis call it "unveiling" and "direct tasting." Just as we think of our body as a tool for our will, our soul becomes a tool for the will of god. This is not any kind of sacrifice but a direct perception of how things truly are. The ego is a conditioned fiction. Reality is unknowable but can be trusted. Thank goodness.

  Existence is a drop of oil on the ocean of chaos, which we think of as undifferentiated form because of our addiction to form, to the tools for fulfilling desire. Existence, defined as named objects, differs from reality. In reality, everything we actually use is undifferentiated, unconscious.We only become aware of things when they defy use, or become problematical. We carry on blissfully unaware; we walk, we breathe, we drink and dance and work and drive and all the while we are only very fitfully aware of doing these things in the full being of them. We dwell on the bits of awareness that flatter our vanity, our individual wills, our judgment of what is annoying and what is fine. Existence is coextensive with ego. Existence is the cocoon and reality is the butterfly; existence is the limited self and reality is the unlimited Self.

   Buddha means awake. The essence of buddhism is mindfulness, not virtue. The virtuous create hell for everyone. Pure mindfulness means dropping existence altogether. It is no loss, believe me. We lose the broken, the partial, the diminished; the imperfect. One of the cards in morgan's tarot says, "this may not be a perfect circle, but it is a perfect whatever-it-is." Our mechanical, reasoning minds cannot begin to appreciate the actual depth of the ocean measuring it dropwise. 

   All of the structures of mind, in heraclitus' image, are no more than a child's sand castles at the seashore, left carelessly to the careless waves.

   I'm not trying to convince reason, that is circular. Reason has to step aside, feel outclassed. Not by me, lord knows, but by transcendental reality itself, beyond good and evil, beyond existence and nonexistence. Fleeing to nonexistence is like fleeing to the light, we remain in shadow. We already live in non existence. It is existence, grotesquely limited, which is the shadow. Like in plato's cave, where the chained prisoners whole world appears to consist of flickering images provided at whim by their captors,and the way to the true light involves first escaping and then accomplishing an arduous journey in darkness against unseen enemies. 

   The cave is not real, it is just a dream, you can wake up. Why is this so hard? God created the universe, named the Names, because he desired to be known. He was lonely, he wanted company, if only himself. He created maya, this world-illusion, and forgot himself. He had to, you see. He couldn't tell adam to disobey, then adam would be obeying. There had to be an Illusion, thus the world.

   You can only be free when you realize you are alone. Rebirth is when you willingly rejoin the game out of desire for company and play. Samsara. Free and bound at the same time. Nirvana.

   Thus you are free, bound to be.

   As existence shrinks, reality expands. Its a natural process: dont interfere.

terry
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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from toshihiko izutsu, "sufism and taoism"


The absolute One is of course the Way which pervades the whole world of Being; rather it is the whole world of Being. As such it transcends all distinctions and oppositions. Thus from the point of view of the Way, there can be no distinction between ‘true’ and ‘false’. But can human language properly cope with such a situation? No, at least not as long as language is used in the way it is actually used. ‘Language’, Chuang-tzu says, ‘is different from the blowing of wind, for he who speaks is supposed to have a meaning to convey.’ However, language as it is actually used does not seem to convey any real meaning, for those people, particularly the Dialecticians, who are engaged in discussing ‘this being right and that being wrong, or ‘this’ being good and ‘that being bad etc., are ‘simply talking about objects which have no definitely fixed contents’.

‘Are they really saying something (meaningful)? Are they rather saying nothing? They think that their speech is different from the chirpings of fledglings. But is there any difference? Or is there not any difference at all?’ 

‘Where indeed, is the Way hidden (for those people) that there should be ‘true’ and ‘false’? Where is Language (in the true sense) hidden that there should be ‘right’ and ‘wrong’?’

‘(The fact is that) the Way is concealed by petty virtues, and Language is concealed by vainglories. This is why we have the 'right' 'wrong’ discussions of the Confucians and the Mohists, the one party regarding as ‘right’ what the other party regards as ‘wrong’, and the one regarding as ‘wrong’ what the other regards as right.’

‘If we want to affirm (on a higher level) what both parties regard as ‘wrong’, and to deny what they regard as ‘right’, we have no better means than ‘illumination’.’

Thus we see ourselves brought back again to the problem of 'illumination’ . The passages here quoted have made it already clear that the ‘illumination’ represents an ‘absolute’ standpoint which transcends all ‘relative’ standpoints. It is a state of mind which is above and beyond the distinctions between ‘this’ and ‘that’, ‘I’ and ‘you’. But how can one attain to such a spiritual height, if in fact it really exists? What is the content and structure of this experience? 
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qur'an 47:36-38


​​​​​​​36. The life of this world is but play and amusement: and if ye believe and guard against Evil, He will grant you your recompense, and will not ask you (to give up) your possessions.

37. If He were to ask you for all of them, and press you, ye would covetously withhold, and He would bring out all your ill-feeling.

38. Behold, ye are those invited to spend (of your substance) in the Way of Allah. But among you are some that are niggardly. But any who are niggardly are so at the expense of their own souls. But Allah is free of all wants, and it is ye that are needy. If ye turn back (from the Path), He will substitute in your stead another people; then they would not be like you!
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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Most students of the Way are Enlightened through the Dharma which is taught in words and not through the Dharma of Mind. Even after successive aeons of effort, they will not become attuned to the original Buddha-Essence. For those who are not Enlightened from within their own Mind, but from hearing the Dharma which is taught in words, make light of Mind and attach importance to doctrine, so they advance only step by step, neglecting their original Mind. Thus, if only you have a tacit understanding of Mind, you will not need to search for any Dharma, for then Mind is the Dharma.

~huang po
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Chris Marti, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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+1 to Huang Po
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

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+2 Huang Po:

There is only the one reality, neither to be realized nor attained. To say 'I am able to realize something' or 'I am able to attain something' is to place yourself among the arrogant. The men who flapped their garments and left the meeting as mentioned in the Lotus Sutra were just such people. Therefore the Buddha said: 'I truly obtained nothing from Enlightenment. There is just a mysterious tacit understanding and no more.'

The ignorant eschew phenomena but not thought; the wise eschew thought but not phenomena.

Q: From all you have just said, Mind is the Buddha; but it is not clear as to what sort of mind is meant by this 'Mind which is the Buddha'.
A: How many minds have you got?
Q: But is the Buddha the ordinary mind or the Enlightened mind?
A: Where on earth do you keep your 'ordinary mind' and your 'Enlightened mind'?
Q: In the teaching of the Three Vehicles it is stated that there are both. Why does Your Reverence deny it?
A: In the teaching of the Three Vehicles it is clearly explained that the ordinary and Enlightened minds are illusions. You don't understand. All this clinging to the idea of things existing is to mistake vacuity for the truth. How can such conceptions not be illusory? Being illusory they hide Mind from you. If you would only rid yourselves of the concepts of ordinary and Enlightened you would find that there is no other Buddha than the Buddha in your own Mind. When Bodhidharma came from the West he just pointed out that the substance of which all men are composed is the Buddha. You people go on misunderstanding; you hold to concepts such as 'ordinary' and 'Enlightened', directing your thoughts outwards where they gallop about like horses! All this amounts to beclouding your own minds! So I tell you Mind is the Buddha. As soon as thought or sensation arises, you fall into dualism. Beginningless time and the present moment are the same. There is no this and no that. To understand this truth is called compete and unexcelled Enlightenment.
Q: Upon what Doctrine (Dharma-principles) does Your
Reverence base these words?
A: Why seek a doctrine? As soon as you have a doctrine you fall into dualistic thought.
Q: Just now you said that the beginningless past and the present are the same. What do you mean by that
A: It is just because of your SEEKING that you make a difference between them. If you were to stop seeking, how could there be any difference between them?
Q: If they are not different, why did you employ separate terms for them?
A: If you hadn't mentioned ordinary and Enlightened, who would have bothered to say such things? Just as those categories have no real existence, so Mind is not really 'mind'. And, as both Mind and those categories are really illusions, wherever can you hope to find anything?
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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"Flowers die because we love them; weeds flourish because we hate them."

​​​​​​​~dogen
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

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thanks chris and george,

and all my friends 

 inspiration
expiration
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

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​​​​​​​We have seen in what precedes how futile and absurd, in the view of Chuang-tzu, is the ordinary pattern of thinking typified by the this-is-‘right’-and-that-is-‘wrong’ kind of discussion. What is the source of all these futile verbalizations? Chuang-tzu thinks that it is to be found in the mistaken conviction of man about himself, namely, that he himself has (or is) an ‘ego’, a self-subsistent entity endowed with an absolute ontological independence. Man tends to forget that the ‘ego’ which he believes to be so independent and absolute is in reality something essentially relative and dependent. Relative to what? Relative to ‘you’ and ‘them’ and all other things that exist around himself. Dependent upon what? Dependent upon Something absolutely superior to himself, Something which Chuang-tzu calls 'the Creator,' or more literally, 'the Maker-of-things.'

Toshihiko Izutsu ‘Sufism And Taoism” 
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

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'Dependent upon Something absolutely superior to himself' seems to carry a faint theistic echo of this-is-right-and-that-is-wrong. Might just be me.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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oh my god!

you could be right!

​​​​​​​on the other hand...
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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trying to reply - to the notion that Something must be dualistic - without extensive quotes or explication...<br /><br /><br />I am = the Way = the Life = god = the Absolute = Something =the All = Nothing = Nature<br /><br />these notions are all-inclusive, eg the All...thus any ondividual thing included in the All must be dependent, as in dependent origination...the good and the bad equally...<br /><br />its all good...<br /><br /><br />&nbsp; &nbsp;That this Something is "superior" to the ego does not make it right or wrong, is just is. The ego knows not whence come thoughts and feelings, let alone events. "Something" supplies a constant flow of phenomena, the Creator or Maker-of-things. At the lowest level of "ordinary" consciousness we perceive this as independent objects occupying the same world as ourselves.&nbsp;<br /><br />&nbsp; &nbsp;As independent egos who have no control over the flow of phenomena, we are perforce "dependent," for better or for worse, on the source or origin of things and events.<br /><br />&nbsp; &nbsp;The taoist concept of god bears no relation to mperors and patriarchs, as in confucianism, and the west. Lao tzu says, "I am different; I am an infant drinking from the breasts of the great mother." The sufis have a similar idea of god being "the Nurse," that is, a wet nurse.<br /><br />&nbsp; &nbsp;The nursen gives us nourishment and also slaps. The slaps are for our benefit, like the nourishment, but we love the milk and hate the slaps. Good and bad are in the nature of things.<br /><br />terry<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />tao te ching, lao tzu, trans witter bynner<br /><br /><br />20<br /><br />Leave off fine learning! End the nuisance<br />Of saying yes to this and perhaps to that,<br />Distinctions with how little difference!<br />Categorical this, categorical that,<br />What slightest use are they!<br />If one man leads, another must follow,<br />How silly that is and how false!<br />Yet conventional men lead an easy life<br />With all their days feast days,<br />A constant spring visit to the Tall Tower,<br />While I am a simpleton, a do-nothing,<br />Not big enough yet to raise a hand,<br />Not grown enough to smile,<br />A homeless, worthless waif.<br />Men of the world have a surplus of goods,<br />While I am left out, owning nothing.<br />What a booby I must be<br />Not to know my way round,<br />What a fool!<br />The average man is so crisp and so confident<br />That I ought to be miserable<br />Going on and on like the sea,<br />Drifting nowhere.<br />All these people are making their mark in the world,<br />While I, pig-headed, awkward,<br />Different from the rest,<br />Am only a glorious infant still nursing at the breast.<br /><br /> 
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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from  Toshihiko Izutsu “Sufism And Taoism”


That a thing can become ‘perfect’ and ‘defective’ (at the same time) may aptly be exemplified by what happens when Chao Wen plays the lute. That a thing can remain ‘not-perfect’ and ‘not-defective’ may aptly be exemplified by what happens when Chao Wen does not plav the lute.

The meaning of the passage may be explicated as follows. Chao Wen is a musician of genius. When he plays the lute, the particular piece of music which he plays becomes actualized in a perfect form. This is what is referred to by the expression: ‘that a thing can become perfect’.

However, by the very fact that Chao Wen plays a particular piece of music and actualizes it in a perfect form, the infinite number of other pieces which are left behind become darkened and nullified. This is what is meant by the thing being ‘defective’ at the same time. Thus a perfect actualization of one single piece of music is at the same time the negation and nullification of all other possibilities.  Only when Chao Wen does not actually play, are we in a position to enjoy all the pieces of music which he is capable of actualizing. And only in such a form is his music ‘perfect’ in an absolute sense, that is, in a sense in which it transcends the very distinction between ‘perfection’ and ‘imperfection’ (or ‘defectiveness’).

The ‘equalization’ of all things thus brings us into the very core of the reality of Being. If, however, one sticks to this idea and discards completely the phenomenal aspect of things, one falls into an equally inexcusable error. For, after all, the infinitely various and variegated phenomena are also an aspect of Reality. Certainly, the music of Chao Wen is ‘perfect’ in an absolute sense, only when he does not play his lute. But it is also true that the possibilities that lie hidden in his ability are destined to be ‘perfected’ in a relative sense and will never cease to work up their way from possibility to actuality even to the detriment of one another. Both forms of ‘perfection’, absolute and relative, fundamental and phenomenal, are essential to the reality of his music.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
this reply thing is unworkable, like trying to drive an american vehicle...I suppose it could be explained and understood but shit..forget it, I'll work around...

so I'll manually take out the break breaks all the while saying, I hate death ray I hate death ray...buggy pos...




trying to reply - to the notion that Something must be dualistic - without extensive quotes or explication...

I am = the Way = the Life = god = the Absolute = Something =the All = Nothing = Nature

these notions are all-inclusive, eg the All...thus any ondividual thing included in the All must be dependent, as in dependent origination...the good and the bad equally...

its all good...

   That this Something is "superior" to the ego does not make it right or wrong, is just is. The ego knows not whence come thoughts and feelings, let alone events. "Something" supplies a constant flow of phenomena, the Creator or Maker-of-things. At the lowest level of "ordinary" consciousness we perceive this as independent objects occupying the same world as ourselves.

   As independent egos who have no control over the flow of phenomena, we are perforce "dependent," for better or for worse, on the source or origin of things and events.

   The taoist concept of god bears no relation to emperors and patriarchs, as in confucianism, and the west. Lao tzu says, "I am different; I am an infant drinking from the breasts of the great mother." The sufis have a similar idea of god being "the Nurse," that is, a wet nurse. The nursen gives us nourishment and also slaps. The slaps are for our benefit, like the nourishment, but we love the milk and hate the slaps. Good and bad are in the nature of things.

terry


tao te ching, lao tzu, trans witter bynner


​​​​​​​20

Leave off fine learning! End the nuisance
Of saying yes to this and perhaps to that,
Distinctions with how little difference!
Categorical this, categorical that,
What slightest use are they!
If one man leads, another must follow,
How silly that is and how false!
Yet conventional men lead an easy life
With all their days feast days,
A constant spring visit to the Tall Tower,
While I am a simpleton, a do-nothing,
Not big enough yet to raise a hand,
Not grown enough to smile,
A homeless, worthless waif.
Men of the world have a surplus of goods,
While I am left out, owning nothing.
What a booby I must be
Not to know my way round,
What a fool!
The average man is so crisp and so confident
That I ought to be miserable
Going on and on like the sea,
Drifting nowhere.
All these people are making their mark in the world,
While I, pig-headed, awkward,
Different from the rest,
Am only a glorious infant still nursing at the breast.
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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I checked to see what Chuang-tzu says about the creator:

The Complete Works of Zhuangzi, tr Burton Watson

Little Understanding said, “Ji Zhen’s contention that ‘nothing does it’ and Jiezi’s contention that ‘something makes it like this’—of the views of these two schools, which correctly describes the truth of the matter, and which is one sided in its understanding of principles?”[31]

Great Impartial Accord said, “Chickens squawk, dogs bark—this is something men understand. But no matter how great their understanding, they cannot explain in words how the chicken and the dog have come to be what they are, nor can they imagine in their minds what they will become in the future. You may pick apart and analyze till you have reached what is so minute that it is without form, what is so large that it cannot be encompassed. But whether you say that ‘nothing does it’ or that ‘something makes it like this,’ you have not yet escaped from the realm of ‘things,’ and so in the end you fall into error. If ‘something makes it like this,’ then it is real; if ‘nothing does it,’ then it is unreal. When there are names and realities, you are in the presence of things. When there are no names and realities, you exist in the absence of things. You can talk about it, you can think about it; but the more you talk about it, the further away you get from it.

[31] Ji Zhen and Jiezi are philosophers of whom little is known. As we see here, the latter taught the existence of some prime mover or governor of the universe, while the former denied it.

​​​​​​​It reminds me of the Buddha's middle way between existence and non-existence:

SN 12.15 Kaccayanagotta Sutta

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

Chaung Tzu was a rough contemporary of the Buddha, although I'm guessing there wouldn't have been any communication between their schools at that time. The bit at the end about not being able to talk about it, that seems like a harbinger of the Chan approach (which it kinda was ...)
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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   You might argue, doesn't buddhism transcend the whole god/ego, Self/self dynamic? Leaving us completely free and at peace?

   Yes it does, the illusion of separateness may be entirely done away with.

   We then see joy and love as traps and snares. Which they are. The fires of passion are banked and go out, leaving a mind of dead ashes. Arriving at this point it is realized as the culmination of the spiritual path. Maximun benefit and minimum waste. Alan watts likened the personality of such a being to pure alcohol, pure spirit, and preferred his own smooth blend of spirit and defilements as more drinkable.

   
 But meanwhiles, back in the world, 

god is great


terry

   
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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two of my all time favorites...


Something
(george harrison)

Something in the way she moves
Attracts me like no other lover
Something in the way she woos me
I don't want to leave her now
You know I believe and how

Somewhere in her smile she knows
That I don't need no other lover
Something in her style that shows me
I don't want to leave her now
You know I believe and how

You're asking me, will my love grow?
I don't know, I don't know
You stick around now it may show
I don't know, I don't know

Something in the way she knows
And all I have to do is think of her
Something in the things she shows me
I don't want to leave her now
You know I believe and how



It's All In the Game
(tommy edwards)

Many a tear have to fall
But it's all in the game
All in the wonderful game
That we know as love

You have words with him
And your future's looking dim
But these things
Your hearts can rise above

Once in a while he will call
But it's all in the game
Soon he'll be there at your side
With a sweet bouquet

And he'll kiss your lips
And caress your waiting fingertips
And your hearts will fly
Away

(Soon he'll be there at your side)
With a sweet bouquet
Then he'll kiss your lips
And caress your waiting fingertips
And your hearts will fly
Away
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Don't Let It Bring You Down
​​​​​​​(neil young)

Old man lying by the side of the road
With the lorries rolling by
Blue moon sinking from the weight of the load
And the buildings scrape the sky
Cold wind ripping down the alley at dawn
And the morning paper flies
Dead man lying by the side of the road
With the daylight in his eyes

Don't let it bring you down
It's only castles burning
Find someone who's turning
And you will come around

Blind man running through the light of the night
With an answer in his hand
Come on down to the river of sight
And you can really understand
Red lights flashing through the window in the rain
Can you hear the sirens moan?
White cane lying in a gutter in the lane
If you're walking home alone

Don't let it bring you down
It's only castles burning
Just find someone who's turning
And you will come around

Don't let it bring you down
It's only castles burning
Just find someone who's turning
And you will come around

Don't let it bring you down
It's only castles burning
Just find someone who's turning
And you will come around
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
   When lao tzu says, "I am different; I drink from the breasts of tje great mother," he means he is different from the confucians, who thought of god as a divine ruler or "emperor of heaven." Taoism and confucianism have a dynamism of their own, and it helps to understand taoism as a corrective or reaction to confucianism and its clearly drawn lines within which one is supposed to color.


from wilhelm's yi jing (I Ching):

from commentary on hexagram 16, Enthusiasm:


When, at the beginning of summer, thunder--electrical energy--comes
  rushing forth from the earth again, and the first thunderstorm refreshes
  nature, a prolonged state of tension is resolved.  Joy and relief make
  themselves felt.  So too, music has power to ease tension within the heart and
  to loosen the grip of obscure emotions.  The enthusiasm of the heart
  expresses itself involuntarily in a burst of song, in  dance and rhythmic
  movement of the body.  From immemorial times the inspiring effect of the
  invisible sound that moves all hearts, and draws them together, has mystified
  mankind.

     Rulers have made use of this natural taste for music; they elevated and
  regulated it.  Music was looked upon as something serious and holy, designed
  to purify the feelings of men.  It fell to music to glorify the virtues of heroes
  and thus to construct a bridge to the world of the unseen.  In  the temple men
  drew near to God with music and pantomimes (out of this later the theater
  developed).  Religious feeling for the Creator of the world was united with
  the most sacred of human feelings, that of reverence for the ancestors.  The
  ancestors were invited to these divine services as guests of the Ruler of
  Heaven and as representatives of humanity in the higher regions.  This
  uniting of the human past  with the Divinity in solemn moments of
  religious inspiration established the bond between God and man.  The ruler
  who revered the Divinity in revering his ancestors became thereby the Son of
  Heaven, in whom the heavenly and the earthly world met in mystical
  contact.
​​​​​​​
     These ideas are the final summation of Chinese culture.  Confucius has said
  of the great sacrifice at which these rites were performed:  "He who could
  wholly comprehend this sacrifice could rule the world as though it were
  spinning on his hand."
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
george said:


​​​​​​​It reminds me of the Buddha's middle way between existence and non-existence:

SN 12.15 Kaccayanagotta Sutta

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

Chaung Tzu was a rough contemporary of the Buddha, although I'm guessing there wouldn't have been any communication between their schools at that time. The bit at the end about not being able to talk about it, that seems like a harbinger of the Chan approach (which it kinda was ...)


--------------------------

   I am quite sure that chinese, persian, egyptian and greek ideas cross fertilized by at least the 5th century bc. Buddhism was carried along the silk roads,, it was a merchants religion, meticulously accumulating merits, and spread everywhere money went. Alexandria was a clearinghouse of ideas by the 4th (well, 3rd) century bc and alexander's armies united the world culture.

   It is important to see that polarity is not duality, Chuang tzu refers to both Something and Nothing as the origin of things. The Way, the Nameless, and various other terms are used indistinguishably. Being as we are speakiing english, the term "god" is hard to avoid, though the chinese did not use it.


   Nice sutta quote, though the nautical term "by and large" seems jarringly anachronistic.

terry
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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george probably likes american cars
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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I'm more of a bicycle man myself ;-)
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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"If the Way is made clear, it is no longer the Way."

~chauang tzu




I'm reminded of a couple of sixties jokes:

1. If you remember the sixties, you weren't there.

2.  Q: Why did the shorthair cross the road?
     A:  Someone told him to.

     Q:  Why did the longhair cross the road?
​​​​​​​     A: Someone told him not to.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
"Wander This World"<br />(jonny lang)<br /><br />The tar in the street starts to melt from the heat<br />And the sweats runnin' down from my hair<br />I walked 20 miles and I'm dragging my feet<br />And I'll walk 20 more I don't care<br /><br />And I'll wander this world, wander this world<br />Wander this world, wander this world all alone<br /><br />I'm like a ghost some people can't see<br />Others drive by and stare<br />A shadow that drifts by the side of the road<br />It's like I'm not even there<br /><br />And I'll wander this world, wander this world<br />Wander this world, wander this world all alone<br /><br />Well I've never been part of the game<br />The life that I live is my own<br />All that I know is that I was born<br />To wander this world all alone, all alone<br /><br />Some people are born with their lives all laid out<br />And all their success is assured<br />Some people work hard all their lives for nothin'<br />They take it and don't say a word<br />They don't say a word<br /><br />Sometimes it's like I don't even exist<br />Even God has lost track of my soul<br />Why else would he leave me out here like this<br />To wander this world all alone<br /><br />And I'll wander this world, wander this world<br />Wander this world, wander this world all alone
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
"Wander This World"
​​​​​​​(jonny lang)

The tar in the street starts to melt from the heat
And the sweats runnin' down from my hair
I walked 20 miles and I'm dragging my feet
And I'll walk 20 more I don't care

And I'll wander this world, wander this world
Wander this world, wander this world all alone

I'm like a ghost some people can't see
Others drive by and stare
A shadow that drifts by the side of the road
It's like I'm not even there

And I'll wander this world, wander this world
Wander this world, wander this world all alone

Well I've never been part of the game
The life that I live is my own
All that I know is that I was born
To wander this world all alone, all alone

Some people are born with their lives all laid out
And all their success is assured
Some people work hard all their lives for nothin'
They take it and don't say a word
They don't say a word

Sometimes it's like I don't even exist
Even God has lost track of my soul
Why else would he leave me out here like this
To wander this world all alone

And I'll wander this world, wander this world
Wander this world, wander this world all alone
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
​​​​​​​
from
Advaita Vedānta and Zen Buddhism
Deconstructive Modes of Spiritual Inquiry
by Leesa S. Davis


Both Advaita and Zen make the claim that spiritual awakening does not involve ‘adding anything new’ to the practitioner’s experience. Both claim that there is nothing to be attained or gained from spiritual practice but, nevertheless, both traditions also claim that there is a fundamental non-dual realization as to the ‘nature of things’ that is obscured or mistaken by the ‘everyday’ dualistic structures that we live by. Hence, the dualistic thought processes and dichotomizing habits that are unrecognized in the practitioner’s ‘commonsense’ ‘everyday’ experiencing must be recognized and ‘seen through’ in a process of ‘experiential undoing’ of the thought-constructed unquestioned dualistic assumptions which, according to these traditions, cause seekers to objectify and reify reality. In this sense, both spiritual paths, in practice, can be read as offering forms of deconstructive spiritual inquiry designed to recognize, work with, and overcome in significant ways the mediated or constructed quality of human experience and ascriptions. In both traditions, ‘authentic’ being and ‘real’ knowing are intimately related and are claimed to be disclosed through engagement with a spiritual practice.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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​​​​​​​leesa davis, op cit


The eight non-dual characteristics of meditative awareness are:

1 The stillpoint of being: I am not this or that, I simply am.
2. All-accepting compassion: Things are perfect and complete just as they
are.
3. Pure Being: Subject–object dichotomy dissolves.
4. Dissolution of spatial boundaries: Being is all-space.
5. Dissolution of categories of time: There is only Now.
6. Non-dual knowledge: Immediate knowing.
7. Non-dual action: Direct action without premeditation or consequence.
8. Deconstruction of constructed conceptions of self and world.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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nb   my puppy has all of the above characteristics...
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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I wonder at what point in their evolutionary development human beings started to lose it!
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Pepe ·, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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my puppy has all of the above characteristics...
LOL Thanks for pointing out that book, I'll check it out.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
   Homo rapiens developed a rape gene, enabling him to supplant older, more intelligent and developed races such as neanderthals and denisovans. We've been raping the planet ever since.

   Our dominance is due to an "improvement" in reproduction rates. 

   Unfortunately for the planet, rape and murder., while good reproductive strategies and hence selected for, are not long term survival strategies.

   Our species fkatters itself that the most intelligent survive, but we really know better. The smarter, more benign human species we raped and murdered might have saved the planet from us.

​​​​​​​terry
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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Feels a little depressing
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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one in fifty eastern europeans s a direct descendant of attill the hun....
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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Everyone alive shares a common ancestor from ~3,000 years ago and is descended from the same group of people from ~7,000 years ago emoticon​​​​​​​
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
​​​​​​​
from Toshihiko Izutsu, “Sufism And Taoism”


Chaos is a metaphysical reality. But it represents only one aspect of Reality. In the very midst of this seeming disorder and confusion, there is observable a supreme order governing all things and events in the phenomenal world. In spite of their apparent utter confusion, all things that exist and all events that occur in the world exist and occur in accordance with the natural articulations of Reality. In this respect, the world we live in is a world determined by a rigorous Necessity. And how could it be otherwise? For the ten thousand things are nothing but forms in which the Absolute appears as it goes on determining itself; they are so many forms of the self revelation of God.

This concept of the ontological Necessity is expressed by Chuang-tzu by various terms, such as t’ien (Heaven), t’ien li (the natural course of things determined by Heaven), ming (Command), and pu te i (‘that which cannot be evaded’).

Chuang-tzu regards ‘living in accordance with the t’ien li’ as the ideal way of living in this world for the ‘true man’. The expression means ‘to accept whatever is given by nature and not to struggle against it’. It suggests that there is for everybody and everything a natural course to take, which has been determined from the very beginning by Heaven. The world of Being, in this view, is naturally articulated, and nothing can happen against or outside of the fixed course. All things, whether inanimate or living, seem to exist or live in docile obedience to their own destinies. They seem to be happy and contented with existing in absolute conformity with the inevitable Law of Nature. They are, in this respect, naturally ‘living in accordance with the t’ien li'.

Only Man, of all existents, can and does revolt against the t’ien li. And that because of his self-consciousness. It is extremely difficult for him to remain resigned to his destiny. He tends to struggle hard to evade it or to change it. And he thereby brings discordance into the universal harmony of Being. But of course all his violent struggles are vain and useless, for everything is determined eternally. Herein lies the very source of the tragedy of human existence.”
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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Toshihiko Izutsu 


Chuang-tzu often speaks of ‘what cannot be evaded’ or ‘that which cannot be made otherwise’. Everything is necessarily fixed and determined by a kind of Cosmic Will which is called the Command of Heaven. As long as there is even the minutest discrepancy in the consciousness of a man between this Cosmic Will and his own personal will, Necessity is felt to be something forced upon him, something which he has to accept even against his will. If, under such conditions, through resignation he gains ‘freedom’ to some extent, it cannot be a complete freedom. Complete freedom is obtained only when man identifies himself with Necessity itself, that is, the natural course of things and events, and goes on transforming himself as the natural course of things turns this way or that.

Go with things wherever they go, and let your mind wander about (in the realm of absolute freedom). Leave yourself wholly to ‘that which cannot be made otherwise’, and nourish and foster the (unperturbed) balance of the mind. That, surely, is the highest mode of human existence.
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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simple gifts
(joseph brackett)
​​​​​​​

'Tis the gift to be simple
'Tis the gift to be free
'Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be
And when we find ourselves in the place just right
It will be in the valley of love and delight

When true simplicity is gained
To bow and to bend, we will not be ashamed
To turn, turn, will be our delight
'Til by turning, turning, we come round right
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terry, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: striking out

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from:
  The
LIFE AND WORK of Jalal-ud-din
RUMI
by AFZAL IQBAL


Since conventional knowledge is learnt as a bait for popularity, not for the sake of spiritual enlightenment, the seeker of religious knowledge is just as bad as the seeker of worldly knowledge. Such knowledge is good for debate; it is used to impress people, to indulge in disputation and argument. It is robust at the time of disputation but it is dead and gone when it has no customer!

Expression in words always fails to convey the meaning; hence the Prophet said: 'Whosoever knows God his tongue falters!'

Speech is (like) an astrolabe in (its) reckoning; how much does it know of the sky and the sun?

Satan has knowledge, intelligence, wit and argumentative ability. Even Adam who learnt the names from God could not prevail in argument with Iblis, but does that make Satan the man of God?

How, then, does one arrive at Truth? There is much discord and perplexity amidst doctrines. How is one to know? The philosopher gives an explanation, the scholastic theologian invalidates his statement. And someone else jeers at both of them. Rumi believes the truth to be this:

. . . All these (various persons) are not in the right; nor (again) are this herd entirely astray,

Because nothing false is shown without the True: the fool bought (desired) spurious coin in the hope of (its being) gold.

If there were no current (genuine) coin in the world, how would it be possible to issue false coins?

Unless there be truth, how should there be falsehood? That falsehood receives brilliance (prestige and reputation) from truth....

Do not say, then, that all these utterances are false: . . .

Do not say, then, that all (this) is phantasy and error: without truth phantasy exists not in the world.

Truth is the Night of Power (which is) hidden among the other nights. . . .
Not all nights are (the Night of) Power.

Inasmuch as truth and falsehood have been mingled one needs a picked touchstone to test the good coin from the bad.
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RE: striking out

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Truth is the Night of Power (which is) hidden among the other nights. . . .
Not all nights are (the Night of) Power.

Hey terry,

I don't know why the translator calls it the Night of Power. Probably it's a mistake in translating the word قدر

I think it reffers to what is called shabe ghadr ( شب قدر ) in Farsi and لیله القدر in Arabic.
Probably he has mistaken قدر with قَدَر meaning strong and powerful?
Ghadr ( قدر ) means extent, size, amout, measure, .. . In the context of Ghadr Night, which formally is in Ramazan, it's said that all manifestations find their extent, their destine in that night by God's will, so they recommend people to stay awake in certain nights of Ramazan because one of them could be the Ghadr, but at the same time it's said that for each person, the Ghadr can happen any time in the year, depending on who knows what, so no one knows when is Ghadr for each person. It's said that it was in Ghadr that Prophet received Quran.
 
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one of these days I will learn medieval arabic...after I learn the ukelele...

the Night of Power is a conventional rendering in english, I have always heard it that way...

t


iqbal, op cot

​​​​​​​
An old man who has chosen a new bride goes to a top hair-dresser and asks him to pick out his white hairs. That 'pick them out' is dialectics. The barber cut off his beard and laid the whole of it before him for he had no time for splitting hairs.
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from ismailignosis dot com


The Night of Power is when the first stage occurred: the entirety of Qur’an in the form Spirit and Light descended into the heart of the Prophet.  This was the climax of the Prophet’s spiritual practice and training which he had been performing leading up to the Night of Power:

“When it is said that the Qur’ān was revealed all at once it means that the Prophet’s personality became Qur’ānic on the Night of Qadr.  The Night of Qadr was the night on which the Prophet attained his quest.  The Prophet lived an abstemious life for about 40 years and, at the age of 38 – or 40 according to some accounts – he suddenly became enlightened, like the Buddha, on a single night.  He received a revelation and the veils suddenly fell away from his eyes.  The Prophet saw that night, which fell in the month of Ramaḍān, as the Night of Qadr and he later gave it this name. That night was in fact his own night of destiny, the night of union, the night on which he arrived at his destination and became a prophet.  It was the night on which all his asceticism and effort bore fruit.  On that night, the Prophet, in effect, became Qur’ānic. In this sense, the Qur’ān was revealed to him in its entirety.  He became a personality from which the Qur’ān henceforth emanated.  His personality became a wealth on which he could draw for the rest of his life.  Hence, this Qur’ān was revealed to the Prophet all at once.”

Abdulkarim Soroush, Islam, Revelation and Prophethood, Feb 2008


On the Night of Power, the Prophet did not merely receive the Qur’ān; the Prophet himself became the Qur’ān.  His heart and soul were permanently illuminated and effaced by the Holy Spirit and the Light of the Qur’ān.  Thus, the Prophet became the “speaking Qur’ān” on the Night of Power and for the next twenty-three years, he expressed, rendered and articulated the spiritual Light of the Qur’ān in the form of revealed discourse (tanzīl, qur’ān) over the next 23 years – the revealed recitation whose first verses were: “Recite the Name of your Lord who created” in reference to the spiritual ritual…that he had been performing during the Night of Power.  
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 Thanks for the quotes.
If Soroush uses the same phrase, then it should be okay!
 
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soroush likely agrees with you, and doesn't translate it, just calls it "the night of Qadr"...

it's ilke nirvana, which is translated in english as "enlightenment" even though it means the opposite, extinction...

Chinese bibles translate john one as "in the beginning was the tao, and the tao was with god, and the tao was god"...

t


let me tell you a story about LA muslims...

   My daughter in laws family have been muslims since the moghuls invaded india. My son became muslim a dozen year ago, and my 8 year old granddaughter is a muslim. So my wife is asking little zara if she has any besties, and oh yes, her best friend "is a member of my tradition". So carol asks her, "what tradition is that?" and she replies, "she's jewish." Carol's going "oh yeah?" when ruby (the child's mom) volunteers that she had been explaining to zara how jews christians and muslims were all part of the same Tradition.
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from a history of zen buddhism dumoulin


Nirvana as the Goal of the Mystic Way

Etymologically, nirvana signifies something negative. Derived from the verb va "to blow as the wind” with the negative prefix nirv it denotes motionless rest, where no wind blows, the fire is quenched, the light is extinguished, the stars have set, and the saint has died. “The extinction of desire, of hate, and of delusion—that, O friend, is called nirvana."  "The body is broken, consciousness has ceased, sensibility has vanished, the forces of imagination have come to rest, and cognition has ended." The saint vanishes into nirvana, to use the Buddha's famous simile, as the flame of an oil lamp sinks in upon itself and expires when its fuel has been consumed. Such words and images evoke the concept of complete annihilation. 

At the same time it is certain that Buddhists persistently regarded nirvana as the supreme goal for which they yearned as for heaven. In the ancient collections of hymns composed by Buddhist monks and nuns, the state of final deliverance is lauded with enthusiasm. Nirvana is regarded as consummate
salvation, supreme blessedness, the haven of peace and isle of deliverance. Could such figures be veils without substance, enshrouding nothingness? Or do they not rather conceal a positive core? Attention was called to this contradiction in the teaching of Buddha, and he was asked whether the Perfected One would or would not exist beyond death. Buddha declined to answer this question, apparently because it is theoretical in nature and its solution is irrelevant to the one thing required, namely, the achievement of salvation. He was therefore accused of philosophical agnosticism. It is possible, however, that Buddha did not wish to express himself regarding life in the beyond, since our conceptual language is not adequate to that purpose. Regarding the "other shore," the immortal sphere removed from death, nothing can be expressed with certainty in human words. That realm is accessible only in mystic ascent.
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Lemme drop this in here emoticon 
enjoy it terry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDM9kCEMN80
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iqbal, op cit

Love truly expresses itself in service. Service is a means of gaining, growing and developing. 'The servant of God desires to be freed from Fortune; the lover . . . nevermore desires to be free.' The servant is always seeking reward, a 'robe of honour and a stipend; all the lover's robe of honour is his vision of the Beloved.' 

Love is not contained in speech and hearing: Love is an ocean whereof the depth is invisible.
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The tree on the mountain height is its own enemy.
The grease that feeds the light devours itself.
The cinnamon tree is edible: so it is cut down!
The lacquer tree is profitable: they maim it.
Every man knows how useful it is to be useful.

No one seems to know
How useful it is to be useless. 

​​​​​​​~chuang tzu
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Eyes and ears are poor witnesses for men if their souls do not understand the language.
​​​​​​​~heraclitus
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RE: striking out

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Give up learning, and put an end to your troubles.
~lao tzu





​​​​​​​from Robert M. Sapolsky. “Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst.” 


The amygdala also plays a logical role in social and emotional decision making. In the Ultimatum Game, an economic game involving two players, the first makes an offer as to how to divide a pot of money, which the other player either accepts or rejects. If the latter, neither gets anything. Research shows that rejecting an offer is an emotional decision, triggered by anger at a lousy offer and the desire to punish. The more the amygdala activation in the second player after an offer, the more likely the rejection. People with damaged amygdalae are atypically generous in the Ultimatum Game and don’t increase rejection rates if they start receiving unfair offers.

Why? These individuals understand the rules and can give sound, strategic advice to other players. Moreover, they use the same strategies as control subjects in a nonsocial version of the game, when believing the other player is a computer. And they don’t have a particularly long view, undistracted by the amygdala’s emotional tumult, reasoning that their noncontingent generosity will induce reciprocity and pay off in the long run. When asked, they anticipate the same levels of reciprocity as do controls.

Instead, these findings suggest that the amygdala injects implicit distrust and vigilance into social decision making. All thanks to learning. In the words of the authors of the study, “The generosity in the trust game of our BLA-damaged subjects might be considered pathological altruism, in the sense that inborn altruistic behaviors have not, due to BLA damage, been un-learned through negative social experience.” In other words, the default state is to trust, and what the amygdala does is learn vigilance and distrust.
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RE: striking out

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"making the hearers see" (aristotle)

open your eyes, sravakas...

all it takes to see god
(thus have I heard)
is a lively imagination...


getting down to nuts and bolts...
like, when is noun (name) not a noun?
and if a noun isn't a noun, what is it?
if anything...
if ever...


how nothing becomes something...


all afterlives, logos, void, emptiness, thusness, dharmas, gods and goddesses (all names, nouns, verbs - all semantics and semiotics) are all metaphors for living real life here and now...substitutions, representations, figures of speech...


the oil which consumes itself providing lamplight (in the buddha's simile)


quran 24:35

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. His light is like a niche in which there is a lamp, the lamp is in a crystal, the crystal is like a shining star, lit from ˹the oil of˺ a blessed olive tree, ˹located˺ neither to the east nor the west, whose oil would almost glow, even without being touched by fire. Light upon light! Allah guides whoever He wills to His light. And Allah sets forth parables for humanity. For Allah has ˹perfect˺ knowledge of all things.




john 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


"Immortal mortals, mortal immortals, one living the others death and dying the others life."
~heraclitus



Metaphors

I’m a riddle in nine syllables,

An elephant, a ponderous house,

A melon strolling on two tendrils.

O red fruit, ivory, fine timbers!

This loaf’s big with its yeasty rising.

Money’s new-minted in this fat purse.

I’m a means, a stage, a cow in calf.

I’ve eaten a bag of green apples,

Boarded the train there’s no getting off.

– Sylvia plath




from paul ricouer, the rule of metaphor


Aristotle attributes the superiority of metaphor over simile to this same virtue of elegance. More concentrated and shorter than simile, metaphor astonishes and instructs rapidly. Here surprise, in conjunction with hiddenness, plays the decisive role.

To this same characteristic Aristotle attributes another feature of
metaphor that has not appeared before, and that seems somewhat dis-
concerting at first glance. Metaphor, he says, ‘sets the scene before our
eyes’ (1410 b 33). In other words, it gives that concrete colouration –
imagistic style, figurative style it is called now – to our grasp of genus,
of underlying similarity. It is true that Aristotle does not use the word
eikôn at all in the sense in which, since Charles Sanders Peirce, we speak
of the iconic aspect of metaphor. But the idea that metaphor depicts the
abstract in concrete terms is already present. How does Aristotle
connect this power of ‘placing things before our eyes’ to the feature of
spiritedness, elegance, urbanity? By appealing to the characteristic of
all metaphor, which is to point out or show, to ‘make visible.’ And this
feature brings us to the heart of the problem of lexis, whose function,
we said, is to ‘make discourse appear to the senses.’ ‘To place things
before the eyes,’ then, is not an accessory function of metaphor, but the
proper function of the figure of speech. Thus, the same metaphor can
carry both the logical moment of proportionality and the sensible
moment of figurativity. Aristotle enjoys combining these two seem-
ingly contrasting moments: ‘Liveliness is got by using the proportional
type of metaphor and by being graphic [literally: making your hearers
see things]’ (1411 b 21). This is true of all the examples listed in 3:10
(1411 a 25-b 10). But, pre-eminently among all the others, the meta-
phor that displays the inanimate by means of the animate has this
power of making relationships visible. Following Heidegger and Derrida, one might be tempted to detect here some shameful traces of Platonism. Does not the invisible appear to us through the visible in virtue of the supposed resemblance of one to the other? Whatever the verdict on Platonism may be, if metaphysics is joined here to metaphor, it is truly Aristotle’s metaphysics and not Plato’s: ‘By “making them see things” I mean using expressions that represent things as in a state of activity [hosa energounta sêmainei]’ (1411 b 24–5). Showing inanimate things as animate is indeed not relating them to something invisible, but showing these things themselves as if in act. Taking some remarkable expressions from Homer, Aristotle comments: ‘In all these examples the things have the effect of being active [energounta phainetai]
because they are made into living beings’ (1412 a 3). Now in all these examples the power of making things visible, alive, actual is inseparable from either a logical relation of proportion or a comparison (but as we already know, the backbone of simile with its two terms is the same as that of the four-termed analogy). Thus one and the same strategy of discourse puts into play the logical force of analogy and of comparison – the power to set things before the eyes, the power to speak of the inanimate as if alive, ultimately the capacity to signify active reality.because they are made into living beings’ (1412 a 3). Now in all these examples the power of making things visible, alive, actual is inseparable from either a logical relation of proportion or a comparison (but as we already know, the backbone of simile with its two terms is the same as that of the four-termed analogy). Thus one and the same strategy of discourse puts into play the logical force of analogy and of comparison – the power to set things before the eyes, the power to speak of the inanimate as if alive, ultimately the capacity to signify active reality.

The objection might arise now that the frontier between prose and poetry has been erased. Is not Homer the author most frequently cited? And is it not said of Homer that ‘he represents everything as moving and living; and activity is movement’ (1412 a 8)? Might metaphor not be a poetical process extended to prose?

This objection cannot be dealt with completely without returning to Aristotle’s Poetics. Let us say provisionally that the difference lies not in the process but in the end that is envisaged. That is why figure-filled and enlivened presentation is treated in the same context as brevity, surprise, hiddenness, enigma, antithesis. Liveliness of speech serves the same purpose as all of these: persuasion of one’s hearers. This purpose remains the distinguishing characteristic of rhetoric.
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RE: striking out

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WHEN LIFE WAS FULL
THERE WAS NO HISTORY
(chuang tzu)

In the age when life on earth was full, no one paid any special
attention to worthy men, nor did they single out the man of
ability. Rulers were simply the highest branches on the tree,
and the people were like deer in the woods. They were honest
and righteous without realizing that they were "doing their
duty." They loved each other and did not know that this was
"love of neighbor." They deceived no one yet they did not
know that they were "men to be trusted." They were reliable
and did not know that this was "good faith." They lived freely
together giving and taking, and did not know that they were
generous. For this reason their deeds have not been narrated.
They made no history.
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from “plato:phaedo,” internet encyclopedia of philosophy (references are to the phaedo)


When Socrates was young, he says, he was excited by natural science, and wanted to know the explanation of everything from how living things are nourished to how things occur in the heavens and on earth.  But then he realized that he had no ability for such investigations, since they caused him to unlearn many of the things he thought he had previously known.   He used to think, for instance, that people grew larger by various kinds of external nourishment combining with the appropriate parts of our bodies, for example, by food adding flesh to flesh.  But what is it which makes one person larger than another?   Or for that matter, which makes one and one add up to two?  It seems like it can’t be simply the two things coming near one another.   Because of puzzles like these, Socrates is now forced to admit his ignorance: “I do not any longer persuade myself that I know why a unit or anything else comes to be, or perishes or exists by the old method of investigation, and I do not accept it, but I have a confused method of my own” (97b).

This method came about as follows.  One day after his initial setbacks Socrates happened to hear of Anaxagoras’ view that Mind directs and causes all things.  He took this to mean that everything was arranged for the best.  Therefore, if one wanted to know the explanation of something, one only had to know what was best for that thing.  Suppose, for instance, that Socrates wanted to know why the heavenly bodies move the way they do.  Anaxagoras would show him how this was the best possible way for each of them to be.  And once he had taught Socrates what the best was for each thing individually, he then would explain the overall good that they all share in common.  Yet upon studying Anaxagoras further, Socrates found these expectations disappointed.  It turned out that Anaxagoras did not talk about Mind as cause at all, but rather about air and ether and other mechanistic explanations.  For Socrates, however, this sort of explanation was simply unacceptable:

To call those things causes is too absurd.  If someone said that without bones and sinews and all such things, I should not be able to do what I decided, he would be right, but surely to say that they are the cause of what I do, and not that I have chosen the best course, even though I act with my mind, is to speak very lazily and carelessly.  Imagine not being able to distinguish the real cause from that without which the cause would not be able to act as a cause. (99a-b)

Frustrated at finding a teacher who would provide a teleological explanation of these phenomena, Socrates settled for what he refers to as his “second voyage” (99d).  This new method consists in taking what seems to him to be the most convincing theory—the theory of Forms—as his basic hypothesis, and judging everything else in accordance with it.  In other words, he assumes the existence of the Beautiful, the Good, and so on, and employs them as explanations for all the other things.  If something is beautiful, for instance, the “safe answer” he now offers for what makes it such is “the presence of,” or “sharing in,” the Beautiful (100d).  Socrates does not go into any detail here about the relationship between the Form and object that shares in it, but only claims that “all beautiful things are beautiful by the Beautiful” (100d).  In regard to the phenomena that puzzled him as a young man, he offers the same answer.  What makes a big thing big, or a bigger thing bigger, is the Form Bigness.  Similarly, if one and one are said to be two, it is because they share in Twoness, whereas previously each shared in Oneness.
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from gene keys journal, nov 2020

The wisdom of I Ching was a pattern on a turtle’s back.  Richard tells a story: When an ancient young man sat watching the river, a small turtle came out of the water and sat next to him.  The young man asked his companion rhetorically “so what is it all about then?”   For answer, the turtle silently turned its back – the turtle turned.  The ancient young man gazed with all his heart at the interlacing pattern on the turtle’s shell and gave himself up;  after a while time stopped and he became the Universe.  After several hours of earth time, his physical body re-formed and he opened his eyes; the turtle had gone.  Since that moment, the human being may understand any detail of the universe by contemplating it with full heart.  Pause!
​​​​​​​

"The Holy Man remains forever in his course and the world reshapes itself to completion."
~I Ching
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“WILDFLOWERS:
A BOUQUET OF THESES” (1998)

JOHN LANDAU


What I desire is a return to the profundity of experience. I want a society where everyday activity, however mundane, is centered around how incredibly profound everything is. I want that profundity to become so immense that any mediations between us and it become totally unnecessary: we are in the marvel. When I am in that awe, words are so irrelevant, I don’t really care if you call my experience “God” or not. All I know is it is the greatest pleasure possible: to hug a tree, to jump up and down at a beautiful sunset, to climb a magnificent hill, to take awe in what surrounds us. I am a hedonist, and I will have these pleasures; neither the religionist nor the atheist shall lock them away from me!

Primal peoples were in touch with this profoundness, and organized their life around it. Religion is a decadent second-hand relic of this original, authentic mode of experiencing, that attempts to blackmail by linking social control and morality with profound experiencings. Primal peoples sought to avoid whatever distracted from this profundity as much as possible. Obsessiveness of any sort could distract from the wholistic goodness of the environment.

Why are we here? To experience profoundly.

Our task, therefore, is to rearrange life (society, the economy) such that profundity is immanent in everyday life. Spirituality represents the specialization and detachment of profundity from everyday life into a disembodied, disconnected, symbolic realm that becomes compensatory for an everyday life whose imma- nence is banality. It is obvious that we don’t regularly experience wonder, and this is a social-material problem, because the structure of everyday life discourages this. Other societies in history, however, have endeavored to discover what is truly of value in life, and then, and only then to structure everyday life upon those evident values.

We wish to make calculation and obligation islands in a sea of wonder and awe. We wish to make aloneness a positive experience within the context of profound, embodied togetherness.
 
Western spirituality has perpetuated a separation between the material and spiritual realms, probably because it arose out of a civilization ruled by an out-of-control materialism. The world used to be experienced profoundly; in spiritual terms, the earth used to be inhabited by spirit. Western spirituality abstracted spirit from the world, from the flesh, leaving an enlivened, disembodied spirit and a deadened, barren world. It is our job to refuse what has been artificially separated, not through a symbolical gesture, but by existentially redressing the alienations to which we have been subjected.

Human beings have developed over the past two million years various strategies for taking care of what some have called our “needs.” Various subsistence strategies have been invented, and our task would be to examine these and choose the strategies which best support an everyday experience of profundity....

We are discussing a life where one gives joy to others through the mere act of being, where exchange of gifts is a way of life, where one’s routine has inherent meaning, not because it makes reference to some symbolic system, but because it opens one out onto kairos, the profound moment, the experience of ambience, awe.
In order to do this, we must develop a pace that is conducive to this, a set of understandings whereby the experience of profundity is a value and for which rests, pauses, and meditations are in order as a part of routine, and a social reality based upon sharing of profound experiences as primary exchange rather than the exchange of money or etiquette.

Our job is to invent primal peoples! Through our imagination and what little we do know there is no evidence against such group movement. We must imagine these primeval peoples, in order to create an incredible myth in order to live it, to become it!

Silence was a great future of such times. People gestured towards the world. Experiences of awe, wonder were everyday affairs. Because people lived outside, they had a much greater oxygen content. They lived in a perpetual oxygen bath, which produces highs, heightens the sense of taste and smell, and is very relaxing. Anyone who has camped out in the open air knows this experience.

The energetic connection with the surroundings was immense; an incredible exchange on all levels was constantly taking place. It is within the context of this immenseness that our words, our ‘rationality,’ our technical pragmatics seem so narrow, so very small. Far from being primitive, these were people enjoying and interested in preserving immenseness. This is no idealism. A concrete experience in nature can demonstrate the incredible power of the outdoors. One may engage in an intense, strenuous experience with others for a few hours (a night hike or somesuch) and then afterwards meander about in total silence, gesturing at most, exploring movement, smells, and impulses. This will give a taste of how rich it all is. This is what we have lost in our narrow obsessiveness with technicality. What Zen practitioners strive for a lifetime for, our ancestors had by birthright. Sure, they didn’t know how to make a waterwheel or how to harness electricity; they didn’t want to: they had better things to do! It is even remotely conceivable that they did know of these things, in potential form at least, but saw them as trivial to the process of life....

In the silence, all of the chitchat and all of the worries and all of the monuments fade. In the is-ness, what need to leave one’s mark? What need to become immortal through art or culture? Disappearance is erasing the record, off track, no trails, no history. One is in the disappearance already. All one needs is to lose track, to stop recording, to turn off the tape machine, to disappear, it’s all right.... It’s OK to disappear. Do so now. The grass in front of you is all that ever was or will be. It has no memory, no future. Just silence.

So when we know this rich heritage, when we reach into the heart of our being and know that humans very like ourselves lived a good two million years in this way of being, we are awed, and the scum at the top of the pond, the curdled milk of history, our obsession with technicality, pours off and we are left with the pure froth of Being.
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from walter kaufmann, “Existentialism from Dostoevsky to Sartre”:


…(I)t is a wide-spread assumption in the United States that an avowed atheist is eo ipso no philosopher. This view is founded on the long association of philosophy and theology in American colleges and blinks the fact that for over a hundred and fifty years most important philosophers have been pantheists, atheists, or agnostics, and that in English philosophy God has played scarcely any part at all since Bishop Berkeley assigned a rather odd role to him early in the eighteenth century. The British philosophers, however, do not usually make a point of their disbelief, while Sartre does; and his un-British insistence on the relevance of ideas to life makes him doubly suspect. Therefore, it is well to keep in mind that perhaps the most compassionate and venerable of all mortals, the Buddha, also made a point of his lack of be­lief, and for essentially the same reason as Sartre.

The differences between the two men could scarcely be more striking, even though the Buddha stressed despair and suffering no less than the existentialists. It would be folly to paint Sartre in the image of the Buddha: he is not saintly but aggressively human; he does not preach disenchantment but commitment in the world; like Nietzsche, Sartre remains "faithful to the earth" and says, "Life begins on the other side of despair." Few men could be more unlike each other.

Nevertheless, the Buddha, too, opposed any reliance on the divine because he wanted men to realize their complete re­sponsibility. His final, and perhaps most characteristic, words, according to tradition, were: "Work out your own salvation with diligence." And if the diligence is rather uncharacteris­tic of the existentialists, the Buddha's still more radical dictum with which the Dhammapada opens is nothing less than the quintessence of Sartre's thought: "All that we are is the re­sult of what we have thought."

 Few words in world literature equal the impact of this saying. All man's alibis are unacceptable: no gods are re­sponsible for his condition; no original sin; no heredity and no environment; no race, no caste, no father, and no mother; no wrong-headed education, no governess, no teacher; not even an impulse or a disposition, a complex or a childhood trauma. Man is free; but his freedom does not look like the glorious liberty of the Enlightenment; it is no longer the gift of God. Once again, man stands alone in the universe, re­sponsible for his condition, likely to remain in a lowly state, but free to reach above the stars.

.  .  .

​​​​​​​Man’s situation, as Sartre sees it, is absurd and tragic; but does that rule out integrity, nobility, or valor, or the utmost effort? In its limitation to this one life, Sartre's image of the human situation differs radically from the Buddhist view in which life follows on life and salvation remains always pos­sible. Sartre's world is closer to Shakespeare's. There are situa­tions in which, whatever choice we make, we cannot escape guilt. This is Jaspers' view, too. Secular existentialism is a tragic world view without, however, being pessimistic. Even in guilt and failure man can retain his integrity (witness "The Wall") and defy the world.
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terry, modified 11 Days ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Excerpt From: Albert Camus. “The Myth of Sisyphus and Other Essays.”


   But if it is still too early to list absurd works, at least a conclusion can be reached as to the creative attitude, one of those which can complete absurd existence. Art can never be so well served as by a negative thought. Its dark and humiliated proceedings are as necessary to the understanding of a great work as black is to white. To work and create “for nothing,” to sculpture in clay, to know that one’s creation has no future, to see one’s work destroyed in a day while being aware that fundamentally this has no more importance than building for centuries—this is the difficult wisdom that absurd thought sanctions. Performing these two tasks simultaneously, negating on the one hand and magnifying on the other, is the way open to the absurd creator. He must give the void its colors.

    This leads to a special conception of the work of art. Too often the work of a creator is looked upon as a series of isolated testimonies. Thus, artist and man of letters are confused. A profound thought is in a constant state of becoming; it adopts the experience of a life and assumes its shape, likewise, a man’s sole creation is strengthened in its successive and multiple aspects: his works. One after another, they complement one another, correct or overtake one another, contradict one another too. If something brings creation to an end, it is not the victorious and illusory cry of the blinded artist: “I have said everything,” but the death of the creator which closes his experience and the book of his genius.

    That effort, that superhuman consciousness are not necessarily apparent to the reader. There is no mystery in human creation. Will performs this miracle. But at least there is no true creation without a secret. To be sure, a succession of works can be but a series of approximations of the same thought. But it is possible to conceive of another type of creator proceeding by juxtaposition. Their works may seem to be devoid of interrelations. To a certain degree, they are contradictory.

    But viewed all together, they resume their natural grouping. From death, for instance, they derive their definitive significance. They receive their most obvious light from the very life of their author. At the moment of death, the succession of his works is but a collection of failures. But if those failures all have the same resonance, the creator has managed to repeat the image of his own condition, to make the air echo with the sterile secret he possesses.

    The effort to dominate is considerable here. But human intelligence is up to much more. It will merely indicate clearly the voluntary aspect of creation. Elsewhere I have brought out the fact that human will had no other purpose than to maintain awareness. But that could not do without discipline. Of all the schools of patience and lucidity, creation is the most effective. It is also the staggering evidence of man’s sole dignity: the dogged revolt against his condition, perseverance in an effort considered sterile. It calls for a daily effort, self-mastery, a precise estimate of the limits of truth, measure, and strength. It constitutes an ascesis. All that “for nothing,” in order to repeat and mark time. But perhaps the great work of art has less importance in itself than in the ordeal it demands of a man and the opportunity it provides him of overcoming his phantoms and approaching a little closer to his naked reality.
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terry, modified 4 Days ago.

RE: striking out

Posts: 1929 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts

To be is to be the value of a variable.


~w v o quine

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