Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

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L J, modified 9 Days ago at 6/21/22 12:27 PM
Created 9 Days ago at 6/21/22 12:27 PM

Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 154 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Hey everyone, as advice from Papa che, I will be starting a new log. My plan is to do freestyle noting aloud (mahasi style) for at least 45 mins daily, maybe I will up it to two practices a day but for now I am keeping at one just to get some consistency going, any input or advice from anyone on here is greatly appreciated. Thanks a lotemoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Days ago at 6/21/22 3:08 PM
Created 9 Days ago at 6/21/22 3:08 PM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2451 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Just to say Best Wishes! emoticon 

Can you tell us how do you start your sit? Like what do you say before each sit. What is your intention? Or do you just start immediately with the practice? 

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L J, modified 6 Days ago at 6/24/22 8:16 AM
Created 6 Days ago at 6/24/22 8:16 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 154 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Hey, sorry for not replying for a while. Been busy as hell with work at the moment so didn't have any time to practice properly until today since it is my day off. Anyway, to answer your question papa che, I usually start with saying, "I am now going to practice freestyle noting aloud for the sake of attaining full awakening some day in the future or any other possible good that this practice may reap, for the benefit of myself and all beings". So far today I have sat for an hour. I simply started with 20 minutes of shamatha: whereby on the in breath i mentally noted "in" and on the outbreath i mentally noted "one" up to ten and repeated. Then I began with freestyle noting aloud (eyes closed in this case). I started with "there is..." noting to feel out the mind terrain and sped up or slowed down accordingly. There was a lot of doubt thtorughout this sit but i noted it. for some reason I can't wrap my head around how this practice will get me awakening, but I know it will from the many others that have had success with this method so stuck with it. there was also a lot of desire for enlightenment which was noted. generally nothing interesting this sit, just lots of resistance and wishing i was doing something else. I also had a lot of doubt as to whether I should be looking to see the three characteristics within each sensation that I note, but this feels very difficult as the sensations are occuring quite quickly and so Is the noting. Should I try to look for the three characteristics intentionally? or just note as fast as i can and let the three characteristics show themselves? Thanks emoticon
George S, modified 6 Days ago at 6/24/22 10:28 AM
Created 6 Days ago at 6/24/22 10:28 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
When sensations are coming thick and fast (typical in A&P nana) there isn't really time to do detailed noting, or trying to do that disrupts the flow of experience. It's more like noting (or simply noticing) 'blip, gone, blip, gone ...' When in the slower nanas it's easier to note or investigate the 3 characteristics in more detail and deconstruct sense objects. It feels quite intentional and laborious at first, but it becomes easier with practice. Eventually it's just kind of hardwired into your brain to notice that any attempt to construe permanence or a self/identity in your experience immediately leads to dukkha, whereas in the absence of such clinging present moment experience is automatically self-liberating.
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Chris M, modified 6 Days ago at 6/24/22 10:47 AM
Created 6 Days ago at 6/24/22 10:47 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 4421 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
When sensations are coming thick and fast...

My experience is that it is very rare for sensations not to be coming thick and fast  emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Days ago at 6/24/22 1:05 PM
Created 6 Days ago at 6/24/22 1:05 PM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2451 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Thanks LJ for sharing! That's a good intention! 

It's great you are noting doubt and desire for enlightenment. All these are matter of fact experiences arising and passing. 

Look up those 4 (or was it 5 short vids by Kenneth Folk) where he breaks down Noting into; sense doors (body), mental images/impressions, feeling tones, mind states. 

This is very important to get the mind see how dependent origination is happening. This is what you are awakening to with the help of Noting aparatus. 

Be very interested in what comes after any passed away object. What follows after it, and after that one etc ... one after the other. Mind will know the 3C's. You just be interested and intimate with matter of fact arise-passings. 

You will have the chance to see all this in finer detail when in Review Stage later on emoticon So relaxed but steady; one after the other for the duration of minimum 45 minutes. Once every day.

Keep the body sensations as a main coming back to. Notice those itches, pains, vibrations, numbness, ... see if there are any image impressions of all these or any of these present in the minds image space etc ... 

Lots of interesting stuff to be seen emoticon 

Best wishes LJ! And may you awaken! 
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L J, modified 3 Days ago at 6/27/22 10:50 AM
Created 3 Days ago at 6/27/22 10:50 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 154 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thank you all for your comments so far! Had a weekend off since I worked 7am-5:30pm saturday and then went to see my mother on sunday. I don't have work till wednesday now so I am planning to get some sits in! so far today i sat for an hour and let me just say this sit was horrible. started with 20 mins of concentration which I paused 13 minutes in to change my posture because I was in a lot of pain, carried on until 20 minutes and then switched to noting aloud. There was lots of aversion, doubt, and just annoyance with the method...feeling like nothing happening. Anyways I tried my best to accept this and carried on. I was able to see impermanence in some sensations and no self in others here and there, realised that the eye balls were a big centre in my experience as it seemed by eyes were projecting out awareness and looking at other sensations, when really the eyes are just another set of sensations which are aware of themselves like all of the other sensations. Aversion got so high at 10 minutes I checked the timer and then just carried on for the last few minutes of the session. hoping to sit for another hour tonight later in the evening! i will keep you all updated
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L J, modified 2 Days ago at 6/28/22 2:13 PM
Created 2 Days ago at 6/28/22 2:13 PM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 154 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Had a pretty terrible sit today. Started with 20 mins of concentration which was good to be fair, but once the biting started I just wanted out at the beginning. Kept going through with it but eventually had to even lie down on the floor since my back was hurting me so much...someone helpemoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Days ago at 6/28/22 3:56 PM
Created 2 Days ago at 6/28/22 3:56 PM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2451 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
LJ have you considered a teacher? I feel that could keep you motivated. To have a trainer so to speak emoticon You are a strong gym lad and I'm sure you know that it's easier to train when you are held accountable for emoticon 
Also an experienced teacher will know what practice is best at what time etc ... 

Chris Marti knows a few teachers and others might too. 

​​​​​​​Think about it. It's a good investment in my experience! 
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L J, modified 2 Days ago at 6/28/22 6:20 PM
Created 2 Days ago at 6/28/22 6:20 PM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 154 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
I have attempted to contact Abre before as I remember her name getting lots of good word in a lot of logs, but unfortunately she never got back to me. Does anyone know any good teachers? Thanksemoticon 

papa do you think it's worth adding the time at the beginning of my session for concentration practice, or rather would it be better to do purely insight sits and then maybe a later sit dedicated to shamatha?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Days ago at 6/28/22 11:54 PM
Created 2 Days ago at 6/28/22 11:54 PM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2451 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
You need to decide what feels right for you. I think shargrol suggests to break up the 60 minute sit in sections but I can't remember how. Maybe he or Pepe can tell us more. 

However I'm a simple beast. I don't prefer to mix techniques much , and in past, not at all. 
I personally would stick with Ki-breathing for a whole year daily. This led me into absorption states. then later went for almost 3 years with daily Shamatha as in Calm-abiding. Would do Mantra off cushion but not really on cushion. Any way, this led to me experiencing my thinking mind falling off into the background and witness behind the eyes being formed. 

Also during these Shamatha years I've hit the DN and beyond but failed to pass EQ. I was missing one I gradient, which is Noting Vipassana (I did much later in 2019). 

As you see, I have spend time, long time in the meditation gym, and really giving any method a good chance before moving on. 

We need to awaken to all aspects so it matters little which one you choose first. I think building up a Calm
and Relaxed base is important for Insight practice. But not just 10 minutes. I would really dig into Shamatha calm abiding for at least 6 months no questions asked. 

That's my story. What will be yours ? emoticon 

Best wishes! 
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L J, modified 1 Day ago at 6/29/22 4:58 AM
Created 1 Day ago at 6/29/22 4:58 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 154 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
I mean I have had my fair share of shamatha as well, but obviously not as much as that haha. To be honest I have already gone quite far down the rabit hole in the past with this noting aloud stuff, so I may as well just stick to it! 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Day ago at 6/29/22 5:49 AM
Created 1 Day ago at 6/29/22 5:49 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2451 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Ok. 

What I used to do when moral was low, I would sit ifront of the window and stare at one thing. Maybe one leaf on a maple tree just infront of our house. It would move in the wind. And lots of other stuff happening too, like sounds, my posture and body sensations,  sounds from outside etc ... but eyes are on that chosen leaf. And noting goes on for 45 minutes at least. 

Any matter of fact noting is better than just dreading the sit emoticon Shout out aloud also great! emoticon Cry out aloud if necessary just keep up the pace and don't give up. Then after the session give yourself a patting on the shoulder and relax and do nothing. Dunno have a milkshake or something for a job well done. 

These stages take weeks usually to unfold. So it's best to keep them
on fire. Daily matter of fact 45 minutes sits. Week in week out. Report, log, see the changes taking place. You have to do all this heavy lifting. No one can do it for you. 

Best wishes! 
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L J, modified 20 Hours ago at 6/30/22 7:41 AM
Created 20 Hours ago at 6/30/22 7:41 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 154 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Thanks Papa, I had a good sit yesterday, 45 mins of non stop noting staring at a candle flame for concentration. I was much more accepting of all of the sensations that arose and it made me realise that I was previously basing my success on what sort of sensations arose throughout the sit, the calmer and happier i felt meant that I was doing it better, but when i felt like shit it meant I was not doing it right, but yesterday's sit really made me realise that sensations are just a vehicle to gain insight into the three characteristics, it doesn't matter whether you are crying or cumming, noting both brings the same result haha. I am planning to just focus on sitting once a day 45 minutes for now for a few weeks to get my consistency back, and then upping it again.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 18 Hours ago at 6/30/22 9:14 AM
Created 18 Hours ago at 6/30/22 9:14 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2451 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Nice LJ! emoticon 
George S, modified 16 Hours ago at 6/30/22 11:12 AM
Created 16 Hours ago at 6/30/22 11:12 AM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Yeah, the more shit you can sit through (and note, and apply 3Cs, and see how clinging/resistance causes dukkha) the better you are doing emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 14 Hours ago at 6/30/22 1:33 PM
Created 14 Hours ago at 6/30/22 1:33 PM

RE: Freestyle noting aloud log- LJ

Posts: 2451 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
George what do you mean by "apply 3C's" ? How can you "apply 3C's" ? To Note/Notice matter-of-fact experience is all that's required for this practice. If reflection occurs during the sit, note it as thinking. If it occurs after the sit note it. Applying would be but rumination, storytelling about something utterly gone. Applying would be like forgetting all else that's happening so to think about how something, long gone, was any of the 3C's emoticon 

But if applying then better AFTER the sit. During the sit just matter of fact noting and curiosity and acceptance about all the experiences unfolding, with their feeling tone. Forget about applying 3 C's. 

BTW I never "applied 3C's". If there was an "insight" concerning 3C's ok, but never have I gone about if this or that passed away experience had 3C's. 

Best is to KISS emoticon Keep It Simple Stupid emoticon Just a simple matter of fact, curious, accepting, intimate noting of any arisen experience. Be it an itch, be it boredom, bliss, sound, image, thought, ... 

BTW, George not meant to hit you too hard with this Kyosaku emoticon emoticon I just think it might be good to strip down the method and remove any unnecessary confusion for LJ. Mind (?) will see these 3C's anyway, thanks to the practice. 

Anyway, may I be corrected if totally off on this but let's try and respect LJ's log and support his efforts. He is just re-igniting his practice again which needs to build momentum. He did complain about "doubt" about methods being an issue. Let's not make it worse for him. 

Again, if I'm mistaken on this please someone tell me to fuck off emoticon I will humbly retreat back into my hole emoticon 

Best wishes to all and KISS.

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