RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Gunnar Malensek, modified 10 Days ago at 6/20/22 9:32 PM
Created 10 Days ago at 6/20/22 9:32 PM

Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Posts: 5 Join Date: 6/20/22 Recent Posts
Hey Y'all, first post. Love the vibes here. Thanks for the insight and sangha.

I've been getting into noting (mahasi style / see hear feel style by shinzin young) more seriously (1-2 hours perday) the last few weeks, and have a particular questions about the practice, something that DG strongly encourages. He talks about seeing the 3C's in everything experienced as much as possible. But I find it difficult to be attenuated to the noting and then also create mental space for processing the 3C's simoultaneously. If I forgoe noting as i get deeper into my sit, then I can open up to the 3C's moreso; or I can note the 3C's as a kind of mantra, but with actually focusing on their reality within my sensate experience, rather than focusing in the words themselves. 

Any thoughts here? How can noting and the 3C's be done simoultaneously, or do the 3C's naturally emanate from a skillful noting and experiencing of sensations?

Thanks!
Gm
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Dream Walker, modified 9 Days ago at 6/21/22 12:59 PM
Created 9 Days ago at 6/21/22 12:59 PM

RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

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T DC, modified 9 Days ago at 6/22/22 12:08 AM
Created 9 Days ago at 6/22/22 12:08 AM

RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Posts: 447 Join Date: 9/29/11 Recent Posts
Gunnar, thanks for posting!  I saw your other thread as well, no real idea where you're at - somewhere in the middle? ;)  

Re: noting and the 3Cs, my personal take is noticing the 3Cs can take a backseat to the main meditation practice.  They're pointers after all, something to keep in mind, but just labels / suggestions, not the real thing (insight).

A genuine experience of the 3Cs, as you said, arises from noting or another related practice.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 9 Days ago at 6/22/22 1:50 AM
Created 9 Days ago at 6/22/22 1:50 AM

RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Posts: 2451 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
"or do the 3C's naturally emanate from a skillful noting and experiencing of sensations?"

This! 

You've got good replies already above. 
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Pepe ·, modified 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 5:32 AM
Created 9 Days ago at 6/22/22 3:39 AM

RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Posts: 574 Join Date: 9/26/18 Recent Posts
Hi Gunnar, 

You can focus on noting only one of the 3Cs per time, say 15 minutes each, and the last 15 minutes observe them all together. As for the PoI, though some aspects of Anatta you'll see early in Mind&Body ñana, Anicca is prevalent till A&P, Dukkha through the DN, and all 3Cs in EQ. That said, many focused on Anicca, and discovered the other two along the way.

Check Daniel Ingram's Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta noting instructions.
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Jim Smith, modified 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 10:08 AM
Created 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 9:13 AM

RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Posts: 1136 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Gunnar Malensek
Hey Y'all, first post. Love the vibes here. Thanks for the insight and sangha.

I've been getting into noting (mahasi style / see hear feel style by shinzin young) more seriously (1-2 hours perday) the last few weeks, and have a particular questions about the practice, something that DG strongly encourages. He talks about seeing the 3C's in everything experienced as much as possible. But I find it difficult to be attenuated to the noting and then also create mental space for processing the 3C's simoultaneously. If I forgoe noting as i get deeper into my sit, then I can open up to the 3C's moreso; or I can note the 3C's as a kind of mantra, but with actually focusing on their reality within my sensate experience, rather than focusing in the words themselves. 

Any thoughts here? How can noting and the 3C's be done simoultaneously, or do the 3C's naturally emanate from a skillful noting and experiencing of sensations?

Thanks!
Gm


I focus on the 3c's in my mind. Every thought, emotion, impulse, sensation, sense perception, self conception, that arises in the mind also fades and so is impermanent. These things all arise from nowhere they just appear in the mind. You don't see how they are generated, you don't really control them they just pop into conscious from nowhere, from unconscious processes, from the aggregates. They are not "me" or "mine" they are not self. A lot of them involve unpleasant thoughts, emotions, cravings, they are impermanent, you don't really control any of them. They are dukkha .

Everything you know and perceive about the outside world is filtered through your mind so if you just focus on mental activity you have everything else covered too.

Every single instant in the moment to moment stream of conscious experience involves impermanence, not-self, and dukkha.

Every time the mind moves from one moment to the next you can note, "impermanence, not-self, and dukkha", but don't just do it like it's a mantra, try to understand and see how what I wrote above is true.

Noting and understanding the 3c's with respect to mental activity pertaining to your self concept can be particularly mind blowing. 

​​​​​​​If you have certain issues that are particularly bothersome and hard to let go of, work with that mental activity too. When I get triggered, I find it can be helpful to note "not mine" with the understanding that the emotion arose without my permission, without miy intention, from who knows where. Most people instinctive believe their emotions are right, but if you are mindful, you don't have to buy into the story they are trying to tell you.

And since this practice and be disruptive to your nicely ordered mental landscape, it can help to spend some time on meditation or other practices that produce mental tranquility (without suppressing).

It seems to me this is a very direct way to get free from the fetter of identity view. When you identify with your mental activity as you, as reality, as yours, you are bound by the fetter of identity view. When the understanding - that all mental activity including your self concepts are impermanent, not self, and dukkha - eventually becomes integrated into your world view, you are freed from the fetter of identity view.

But you can't do this just by reading a post, you have to make the observations in your own mind. Much mental activity is very subtle, the more you watch the mind the more of the subtlties you will become aware of. So you have to work at this patiently. Time and persistance are your friends, let them help you.
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Chris M, modified 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 10:04 AM
Created 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 10:04 AM

RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Posts: 4421 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Nicely put, Jim!
Ben Sulsky, modified 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 11:09 AM
Created 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 11:03 AM

RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Posts: 137 Join Date: 11/5/19 Recent Posts
The progression I learned from MCTB2 is to begin noting with full words, for example 'rising', then switch to shorter signs, for example 'rise', then switch to some generic sign for every note, for example 'da', and finally to cease using syntax altogether and just notice bare sensations.  

One of the points of this (imo) is to free up more brain space to do other stuff, like notice the 3Cs.  

I think you'll find that once you get to the noticing bare sensations part, you'll hit the A&P pretty quickly.

Also, you don't actually need to consciously notice the 3Cs while you do this practice.  The feedback loop between [bare sensation -- > sign --> awareness of sign] will naturally train your mind to see the 3Cs if you repeat it enough.  That's why the A&P happens when you do this a bunch.  As your brain gets better at this more stuff will come up.  
Gunnar Malensek, modified 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 2:06 PM
Created 8 Days ago at 6/22/22 2:06 PM

RE: Noting and 3C's at Same Time

Posts: 5 Join Date: 6/20/22 Recent Posts
All these posts have been extremely helpful and practical. Y'all kick butt with this pragmatic dharma ordeal - hard to find elsewhere. Thank you for your help.