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Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?

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People talk about the ability to 'call up fruitions' on cue. I have been trying, unsuccessfully, to do this. They just happen pretty much on their own from time to time. Sometimes I don't even notice, till after the fact.

How does this work ? Does one cycle through the insight process each time ?

Or is it more like the ability to enter a random concentration Jhana on will where you can pretty much make it happen by willing it to (ie not having to go through the preceding jhanas at all) ?

Also is there any benefit in spending time cultivating this, or is it better to just aspire to the higher paths.

Any links / advice is appreciated. Thanks. emoticon

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
11/7/11 5:50 PM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
Alright, assuming you are getting Fruitions, which is another question, and giving you the benefit of the doubt...

For most, you can incline to them, and they, depending on the degree of skill, quality of your current setting and circumstances, and related to what appear to be inborn talents or lack thereof, occur at some point, for some sooner, for others later, and this can vary.

I personally don't know anyone who can just go, "I'll have a Fruition", and reproducibly get one that next second, and then do this again and again second after second.

I do know plenty of people who can likely have one very likely show up in the next few minutes with general inclination in that direction during daily life, and and some who can possibly pop off a few repeats in the afterglow of that in the next few minutes.

I know lots of people who can sit down on a cushion or recline or whatever, go through the cycles in the standard sequence, and perhaps 10-60 minutes from when they started get a Fruition. I also know people who can rise through the jhanas, get to 8th, come out, and get a Fruition or all sorts of other things, and accomplish this in some number of minutes, say 5-15, something like that, as a good guideline of what is easily possible for some

I know other people who do have path but have a very hard time getting Fruitions: they tend not to do as well and progress more slowly with less sense of what they are doing, what they are capable of, what the depth of the dharma means, etc.

Plenty also cycle naturally and they just occur throughout the day some number of times, depending on current practice phase, etc.

As to whether or not it is worth cultivating them, I would say yes, as they skills and insights that get you to a Fruition are really, really good skills to have, and they do something good to the mind, cutting through the sense of continuity and agency like few things do, and mastering Fruitions is a great way to have the cycles of the next level of insight arise on their own.

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
11/8/11 6:45 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Thanks Daniel. This clears things up quite a bit.

Also been a bit confused on the direction to take my practice. This gives some idea on what to work towards.

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
11/8/11 6:42 AM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
When you are able to call up a fruition, you might want to see what you can learn from it.

http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2011/07/yogi-toolbox-lengthening-fruition.html

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
11/8/11 6:48 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:


I personally don't know anyone who can just go, "I'll have a Fruition", and reproducibly get one that next second, and then do this again and again second after second.


I don't know how it came about, but I have been able to call up a fruition within 5 seconds of deciding to since SE at any time and repeatedly. It is done via 'knowing' that it will happen within 5 seconds. The mind will then naturally and automatically incline towards cessation. Depending on what characteristic is at the forefront of the mind when calling them up, the entrance experience will be slightly different. I talk a little about how i do it here.

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
11/8/11 8:19 AM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Nikolai .:
Daniel M. Ingram:


I personally don't know anyone who can just go, "I'll have a Fruition", and reproducibly get one that next second, and then do this again and again second after second.


I don't know how it came about, but I have been able to call up a fruition within 5 seconds of deciding to since SE at any time and repeatedly. It is done via 'knowing' that it will happen within 5 seconds. The mind will then naturally and automatically incline towards cessation.


Same here (though not beginning at 1st path, but sometime later).

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
11/9/11 9:47 AM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
For anyone working on similar goals. I have been playing around with this and have been getting partial success (either works with multiple cessations in a row, or not at all) with the following...

Before starting: Resolve to experience fruition.

Then:
1) Focus on the 'third eye' region, start noticing vibrations
2) Relax the focus and loosely cultivate one mental characteristic of one of the 3 Cs

Optional
- Move the focus to the lower back part of the skull. (Got this from the podcast Nikolai linked to, works sometimes but results in a lot of 'false dips' as well )

Also I find it easier in the reclining position. And during a relaxed part of the day.

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
11/9/11 9:50 AM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
I agree with the false dips warning: very common to mistake strong state shifts for Fruitions: this is a really easy mistake to make even in experienced meditators.

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
11/9/11 10:51 AM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
Eventually, when you get a sense of what works for you and you get a sense of the way the mind starts to shut down gradually (or quickly) as it approaches cessation (it's like a sense of letting go, maybe tinged with a dispassionate carefree attitude towards the phenomena that is shutting down), then maybe you will just need to incline the mind like so.

Perhaps inclining the mind to be dispassionate towards phenomena with the intention to let all phenomena go into cessation will lead to the ability to call up (or rather allow to happen) a frution when you wish as often as you wish as quick as you wish.

This is what seems to lead straight to cessation for me. It is a relinquishing of attachment towards phenomena, of consciousness, that leads directly to cessation for myself. This is where 'knowing' it s going to happen works as a good technique to trigger or rather allow the senses to go into cessation due to not clinging to them. Once you get the hang and 'feel' of it, you won't need to think about anything nor incline the mind in a certain way, but just resolve and 'know' it will happen at a set time as many times as you decided on (eg. 5 seconds from now 6 times in a row)

Edit: Also when you get good at this, you might try slowing the entrance experience down by resolve and will of mind. I used to just resolve for the entrance experience to be slowed down so i could become more aware of what was shutting down and in what order right before the cessation. I got good at it so that the mind would sit right on the verge of cessation. This is where the pure abodes and lots of stuff can be developed and cultivated. Very very insightful as well. PCEs may also be triggered in my experience by slowing down via resolve and will power the 'rebooting' period on the exit. See how the sense of existing/being/sense of self has not come online fully until after the re-booting moments. Fruitions should be about insight.

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
1/6/17 12:24 PM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
So, I come from a Dzogchen and Zen background and honestly had NO idea what any of the Progress of Insight steps were until reading MCTB (Thanks Daniel!). After reading it, some of them became obvious, but the whole fruition thing was entirely beyond me, honestly. 

Last night as I sat, my body jumped and I had a warm body/bliss feeling starting in my forehead. I thought: "If that's a fruition, as an awakened practitioner I'm supposed to be able to get myself to have more. So, I remembered the feeling of it - asked for one (politely) to happen in the next few minutes and sure enough, in timing with the thermostat for the heater clicking in the next room I had a 2nd one. With this one, I briefly had the picture of a white disk in the area of my forehead, then the pop and the warm/bliss feeling. I was able to make this happen 4 times over about 15 minutes, each with it's own slightly different flavor and intensity. Strange and fun.

Now that I know what I'm looking for, how can I gauge what the "flavors" of them are, and what do I do with all of this? What is the value in recursively learning to do this and work with this knowledge?

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
1/6/17 7:49 PM as a reply to Stirling Campbell.
The value could be in deepening your insight into the pliability and mechanistic-nature of experience.  Reducing fixation, grasping, etc.

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
1/6/17 11:21 PM as a reply to Stirling Campbell.
Just keep an open mind and remember that the dDx (differential diagnosis, meaning things those events could be) includes the A&P, particularly with bliss and lights.

RE: Calling up Fruitions... How does it work ?
Answer
1/7/17 12:23 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
Just keep an open mind and remember that the dDx (differential diagnosis, meaning things those events could be) includes the A&P, particularly with bliss and lights.

I appreciate your input, Daniel. I'll keep that in mind when I sit and try it again tomorrow.