Platu's spiritual autolysis

Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/8/22 7:34 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/8/22 9:29 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Chris M 9/8/22 10:09 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/9/22 7:02 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/8/22 10:37 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/8/22 10:49 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/9/22 7:06 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/9/22 8:27 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/10/22 8:41 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Matt Jon Rousseau 9/11/22 5:44 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Siavash ' 9/11/22 11:14 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis shargrol 9/12/22 8:41 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 9/12/22 11:32 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/12/22 6:52 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/16/22 5:04 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/16/22 5:05 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/16/22 5:09 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Siavash ' 9/17/22 2:14 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Chris M 9/17/22 8:37 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/18/22 7:02 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/18/22 7:03 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/18/22 7:03 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/19/22 9:33 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/23/22 9:17 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 9/27/22 4:12 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 10/25/22 4:58 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 10/31/22 5:05 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Chris M 11/1/22 6:59 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 11/1/22 5:13 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Chris M 11/2/22 7:45 AM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 11/7/22 6:05 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis George S 11/8/22 5:22 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 11/14/22 2:11 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 11/17/22 5:30 PM
RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis Platu • 12/5/22 4:49 PM
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 7:34 PM
Created 3 Months ago at 9/7/22 7:02 PM

Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Hi all,

Just wrote a message in Linda's practice log, with the intention to simply express my thoughts that has come up in relation to what I have read there. The process of doing it turned into a storm of fear, by writing, reading, writing, re-reading again, looking for some bullshit in my words, fearing that there is some, and that the heavyweights will notice it. Funny, huh? Not when it happens, but now, can kinda smile at it. It's not the first time that I start writing to a real audience and I start getting all freaked out. Tensing my anus, getting short on breath, heart pounding, and tense all over the body. In thoughts too. I can tell that small little thoughts are farting around so quick that they pass without becoming conscious of what they are. Just the smell lingers in the body as some sort of fearful emotional/physical tension. What are they?

Right now feeling the urge to re-read what I just wrote. Why is that so? Do I fear appearing fucking stupid, deluded, and trying to project an imagine of oh mr. wise-boy? Even that! Telling fuck, shit, and ass in my private writings was easy! Now I fear that I am doing this too much. Going over the boarder. Do people are fucking allowed to speak like this in public? Or is there some sort of punishement for it, like other people telling that - no, no, no - you sir, are not allowed to speak like this - fuck off our tribe! I don't remember when I have felt so much fear in my life. I don't know if I will hit the send, but that's going off the core. It'll be clear when the time is right. Some words and expressions are pointless, should I delete and re-write them or go with the flow? Re-writing or deleting shit rarely happens in my private writings, what is it about the people that might read it? Why do they become a topic? What is it about them? Can I get hurt by them? Can this emotional vomit backfire me? What me? Some picture of me being enlightened one day having a clear record? What record, how any of this can get dirty? I cannot get more fucked up than now. Okay, after I hit send. If someone clings to it and blows it out... yea, who cares about drama? Who cares to create it? Is drama the worst that can happen? What is drama? Someone takes some shit personally said or done by others and reacts in an emotional way? People can take shit personally. I have no control over that. This shit is directed at no one except me, so it's my drama? emoticon Sort of, wow, that's smth new, I have never identified myself as dramatic. First day in public, and voila!

I still don't know if it's an good idea to post it. This - I could handle. But what if the topic shifts to something that someone would find totally unacceptable? It's their beliefs, but still. Do I need this? I remember Jed McKenna said somewhere that it's better to keep this shit for ya'self. Maybe the dude has a point? Should I believe him? Or figure for myself? Do I have to be careful? I have no intentions in throwing hate towards anyone, except myself - for good reasons I believe. Can this light-hearted hate be taken and used against me? Me who, how? Somewhere in the future imagined situation? Fear to regret? Feel guilty? Fear to be imagining myself in the future who is imagining myself in the past who has done something wrong. Where is that me who has done or is doing or will do something?

What's the deal? Pretty sure this is not going to be a single contemplation for this topic/emotional reaction. It's still charged, implying a sense of control to this process. How and what should I say or express, what are the standards, if any, for such thing. Is it a thing to be worried about? Is it a thing that someone needs to see? This is going to be continued anyway. Do I fear that in public I will not be able to go in certain depths of my psyche? Fuck, I don't know. For now, this is the single most wild contemplation I've ever did. I remember my mom saying - don't be too open, telling truth to everyone, keep shit for ya'self. Belief based on fear. Fear of stuff that is not happening now. Is other people a threat to me? Can they hurt me? A silent answer by ceasing of the question...

Is this how an authentic expression gets limited? By false projections of me in the future which creates fearful emotional response now? Fear that these words will be perceived somehow wrong and do damage to me?

Thought popped up that if someone would approve or validate the way of expression that would make it easier, but who needs an validation from who? Support by others - is that what it is? A silent sneaky crutch when I cannot make up my own mind? Nothing wrong to get support out of the blue, but seeking support is another thing.

I still don't know, but emotions sorta settled and everything appears more harmless. The urge to send and see what comes up further is stronger than putting this one back in the drawer. Gotta go with that.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 9:29 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 9:29 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Hi,

The thoughts are more or less active remembering, judging, and trying to figure something out from the first post and this situation. Like understanding what's going on here, but really just wanting for a way out, that the topic would be let go of. Doing nothing is a classical and natural approach to this sort of thing. Not resisting the craving to figure something out. As if at the end of figuring out, there is the craved for release. But what is it about this that is resisted to a point that a craving happens to get released from it? Are these thoughts and emotional reactions are not allowed to happen? Who believes that it could be other way - without these thought patterns? Are these thought patterns wrong? These patterns seem wrong, because they are in the background of the experience while doing other things, like taking a shower and wanting to do it quick so I could go contemplate. Is it wrong to take a shower quick and go contemplate, cuz in an hour I'll have to go to work? Or is it about the belief that contemplation can make things better? Trying to think these thoughts through in the mind is pointless, they are all over the place, so surrendering to them is the only way they die out on themselves. But here and there a craving happens to write it all out. Is it the pain of having these thoughts pushing to writing or craving for the release that the writing provides? Both? So what, is it not allowed to happen? Because it murks the awakening process? How it is apart from this? Is resistance and craving apart from this? Is resistance and craving bad? There is no resistance in the sensations, even though they are very painful. Resistance to the contents of thoughts? By believing that thinking about something that has happened is bad? Is it? Who's thinking that? Is there free will to choose the thoughts? Is craving to write this wrong, not allowed to happen? Does resisting resistance and resisting craving happens only because of belief that resistance and craving cannot happen or be here, that creates an extra layer of resistance? Thoughts against thoughts.

Few days ago no thoughts about expressing in public were going on. One thing led to another and here they are. I wonder, can it be so that I have created new conditionings instead of letting them go? What new conditionings? Writing on the interned about my conditionings emoticon It was not that I have decided to do it, it just happened that I could not not do it. But who wants to know that? It already is happening, who cares why or how have it happened?

Another shadow is lurking telling that maybe by always focusing and going in to the painful experiences I am creating more pain and neuroses. Like manifesting more of the same. I am not really interested when everything is flowing, recalling it and thinking stuff about it. It happens as it happens, no resistance, good life, what else? Accumulated experience shows that without going into the frictions, these situations tends to repeat, but by going in seeing them for what they are, letting go related beliefs about it, tends to let them go, losing the status of a trigger. But still, am I attached to the process of contemplation? Sometimes it's days without doing it. When nothing comes up, nothing comes up. But when it does, it does... Gotta go to work.
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Chris M, modified 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 10:09 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 10:09 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

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Hello, Platu. How can we at DhO help you?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 10:37 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 10:37 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 6854 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I think what you are doing is both brave and a valuable practice. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't freak out from reading it, as long as it's clear to me that it's an explorative process rather than some views you are trying to sell or something combative that can cause harm to others or make them feel unwelcome on this forum. I'm not easily shocked. I'm no stranger to weird thoughts or strong feelings. I can't speak for others, though. People do freak out, and it's not always easy to tell in advance what will cause reactions. You will need to make your own risk assessments. Sometimes people feel the need to take the moral and/or spiritual high ground. Sometimes they get triggered by something and have a fear-based reaction. One thing to look out for is the integrity of others, so that you don't share someone else's private stuff because it's intertwined with yours. Also, for the most sensitive stuff it could perhaps be a good idea to find a small closed group where all participants agree not to tell anyone about what comes up in the group. 

As you noticed in my log, I speak openly about a lot, but I also have some boundaries that I choose not to cross. Finding the right balance can be hard, and I have sometimes had to pay a price for being too open. I think one of the toughest aspect is that people tend to think that they have me figured out when they really don't. Just because I share some things they wouldn't share, that doesn't mean that I share everything else. It's unevitably the case that a great deal of context is missing. I get misinterpreted all the time. People can also be very judging sometimes. However, there is also much to gain from daring to be vulnerable. Getting to know one's own process more intimately, and lots of love, among other things. 

One thing to remember in this is that there is no solid continuous self or identity. It's all just arising and passing away. I think throwing oneself out there could help make that very apparent. On the other hand, it will most likely also trigger a lot of contractions that will make it feel like it's very solid, which can be painful. What you are aspiring to do is a trigger practice. Trigger practices can be effective accelerators. They can also retraumatize if one takes it too far. Please make sure that you have the resources you need to take care of yourself and find a helpful balance.

All the best wishes for your practice and wellbeing! 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 10:49 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/8/22 10:49 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

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By the way, I have a dharma friend who systematically does a version of this on facebook as a means to let go of attachment of a positive self image. I have the greatest respect for his practice and for him as a person, but I don't think I would want to do it that way. Maybe that means that I'm a coward or that I'm still too stuck in selfing, or maybe I just don't want to confuse people around me. I don't know. 
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/9/22 7:02 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/9/22 7:02 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Hi Chris, thanks for asking. Nothing specific I have in mind that I'd like to ask. For the moment, this is helping, just having an audience as it is, to see what the contractions for expressing in public are about.  
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/9/22 7:06 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/9/22 7:06 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

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Hi Linda,

Thanks for taking time to reply. Your words sounds like they come from experience and makes sense. 

Your friend sounds extreme, but some ways for some people goes emoticon 

​​​​​​​All the best!
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/9/22 8:27 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/9/22 8:27 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

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Hey all,

In the direct experience there is none of you. There are no serious or lazy practitioners, advanced or beginners. There is no context of people who share the same pragmatical approach to this. There is no history in me writing here. There is nothing that I can think of or probable other gazillion variations that I can't think of. So why when I do write it seems like it all exists? Why when I meet someone, a history of interactions, conditionings pops up? It's a belief that this person exists. I see him. A thought. But in the direct experience it's only an fleeting image. Around some people, contexts of interactions, there seems to happen more contraction and with some - the interaction is light, open, and spontaneous from the start. Is there some sort of conditionings piled up in subconscious that gets projected upon the contact? Emotional reaction in the body to the projection that is fearful, joyful, or some else? It's not that I could stop projecting right now. It just happens. The projection is not separate from this. There is nothing to do with it as it happens. Projection itself is not true, sure. But it sucks sometimes emoticon Maybe becoming conscious of subconscious projection would make things more obvious? Dunno, seems like a lot of work towards something. The projection is not me or mine. That's the experience. So what? So that it can go away without me having to do something about it.

Contractions - are they a way of indicating where to go or back off? Why would I want to go there? Is here some sort of an old pattern working, who's initiating the program to go and conquer? Who wants that? I know this program well. Comfort zone challenges, doing uncomfortable things... For what? For the brave and unstoppable ego? Or dissolutions of contractions, as well as ego? I still fear the idea of laying on the floor of the supermarket. Even though the experience tells that nothing happens. It makes no impact to what is. I could have just simply continued to write privately, but did I really had a choice to go public?
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/10/22 8:41 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/10/22 8:41 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
WHO'S PLAYING THE ROLE?

Hi,

(Action at a restaurant being a waiter):
A pattern emerges at work where I am observing and clinging to the work others are doing and breaks they are taking. And comparing it to me. How fast they move, how attentive they are, if they are thinking what and when to do themselves and whether they are doing it, how long they are eating and breaks they are taking. What is it telling about me? People who are fucking around pisses me off. As well as the ones that eat twice as long or even longer than I do. Who takes more breaks than I do. Who's not doing the drills properly. Some sort of victim mentality emerges. I am working more, giving more effort, responsible for more, getting more tired. I am getting restless when someone is telling not related to work story when there is more work to do. Like at that moment, 3 more things to do. I am getting tensed and not interested very much in listening. If there is a brief moment when no more doing is needed, it's hard to do nothing, relax, because it's easy to find what to do, there is always a need for that, and someone to help. When someone goes to eat, I almost start the timer, to to compare with the time I eat. And almost getting permission to eat longer if someone else is doing so. Feeling the rush to eat, same goes with doing something, so I could do another thing. State of rush is pretty frequent. Most often it happens when I have five more steps in mind, but sometimes when I have zero. What is going on?

Believing that other people cause my frustration and I cause theirs. If I do the job poorly, someone else has to do it more, or customers, or the place gets hurt - by getting worse service, longer waiting times, poorer environment, and the place is loosing customers, reviews, money. Best service to visitors and most money to the place is my role. Each break, slack off, or fuck off is taking points from that. And then this me is being a bad waiter, colleague, employee. Is it true? emoticon))

Do I have control over any of that? Do I have control how well I play my role? Seeing others taking long breaks, chitchatting, relaxing, makes me want to scream - I want that too! But can't, because I have to play my role well. I am responsible for this and that. Who, what? Is there me as a doer? The one who has to think what to do, how to do, when to do? Do I have to think? Is there a me who has to figure something out? Be responsible for something happening well? Who needs long breaks or more of them? Who's fault it is for some mistake happening? Who needs to do something? Who's responsible for the roleplay? Do a role have to be played or it's playing by itself? Does someone take the blame or get the praise for it? Can someone blame someone? Do I need to know what the role is? Is it necessary to know what the role and rules is? Figure them out? Who want's to know? Who's doing that anyway? When is it being done? Who's doing it? Is it possible to know it? Nothing fixed, final, or fully. Is it possible to know anything? Or rather, something? Should I know the reason for the painful spot in my back and do something about it? Maybe not save money for the fucking massage? And call that osteopath/physical therapist that I found in the neighbourhood and took the picture of?
Matt Jon Rousseau, modified 2 Months ago at 9/11/22 5:44 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/11/22 5:44 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 111 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent Posts
Could you have OCD? or a slight degree of it.   This is not a put down. You might need meditation  more than anybody.   I think your doi.g well and the thoughts will slow down to be honest.   You might be in CAUSE And EFFECT.
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Siavash ', modified 2 Months ago at 9/11/22 11:14 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/11/22 11:14 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

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Dear Platu,

I’ve had similar issues for many years. It has healed to some extent, but I still get similar thoughts and emotions sometimes. I think this should be worked on mainly in the realm of psychological healing, and not necessarily meditation.

For me, there were/are several components. One is that I used to see the world as an unfair place, so I always thought that there is something wrong, or the world is against me, and so on.

The other component is that because of my low self-worth, I felt that my worth comes, and should come from how other people judge me, and as a result, I did the same about other people, judging them. This is a very toxic dynamic and puts you in a position where you always compare yourself with others. If they praise you, you feel good, if they don’t, you feel bad. If you think you are doing more than others, and receiving less than them, it triggers the view that the world is an unfair place, so you get angry and frustrated, as a result, you either want to isolate yourself, or explode and get angry at people. There is no winning scenario with this worldview. The view should be changed, also emotions should be investigated, to see why one thinks that their worth comes from people’s judgment, and not from themselves.
You can see the world as an unfair place, and find yourself seeing unfairness everywhere, or you can put the issue of fairness out of the picture, then there is both fairness and unfairness, both for you and others.

You don’t need to compare yourself to others. They can do whatever they want, and it doesn’t need to be your business, and you can do whatever you want, and it shouldn’t be their business, as long as both sides are operating with the defined and agreed-upon rules. It doesn’t worth consuming the energy for this comparison. You are worthy the way you are, it doesn’t matter how people judge you.
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 9/12/22 8:41 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/12/22 8:38 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 1876 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Well said Siavash.

Platu, one other small piece of advice is to be more focused on action than planning/debate. I found that I would spend hours debating all the options I had, but rarely would I take the next smallest step forward. It felt like I had to figure everything out before I did something --- but that was exactly wrong (at least it was wrong for me). At one point, I learned the idea of "take the next smallest step" and my life quickly changed.

Life is so much better if you treat it like an experiment and just try things out. I think I had a fear that if I tried something out and it didn't work, then I was a failure. But that's not true at all, it just didn't work out! emoticon And what I learned over time is that success kinda comes from failing your way to success, you try five things and three of them fail but two of them work, and now you have learned some lessons and made some progress... and if you keep doing that, you fail your way to success. emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago at 9/12/22 11:32 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/12/22 11:32 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 6854 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I get what you are doing.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/12/22 6:52 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/12/22 6:52 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

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Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/16/22 5:04 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/16/22 5:04 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Test
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/16/22 5:05 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/16/22 5:05 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Test2
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Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/16/22 5:09 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/16/22 5:05 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
What is it about the copied text that throws me out of this thread and the content does not get posted? 
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Siavash ', modified 2 Months ago at 9/17/22 2:14 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/17/22 2:14 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

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Probably it has emoji symbols in it. The editor used here in Liferay, only supports text format, and you can't use other symbols with the text.
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Chris M, modified 2 Months ago at 9/17/22 8:37 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/17/22 8:37 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 4596 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
My advice on pasting stuff into DhO messages is to do so in text-only or ASCII format. Using an application like Word brings tons of formatting characters here and the editor does not like those, as Siavash just said. Save your message as text only, then copy and paste.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 7:02 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 7:02 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
 2022-09-12

Is a practice needed to see the way it is?

Hihi,

Today befell an intention to put some effort to be aware of expansion and contraction simultaneously throughout the day. Like focused 'Do Nothing'. Focused and relaxed. Loosing the expansion awareness when obviously getting too contracted around thought, some course of action, or forgetting for unknown reasons; this happened more when the emotional turmoil were bubbling in the body. Some narrative in the background happened about it too, which I'll try to call out to talk emoticon Hopefully they'll be understanding and leave.

First and foremost coming back to the intention to notice expansion and contraction over and over again creates a sense of seeker. Which noticed in the moment is obviously just more contraction, taken away by expansion. But it's the idea that this process should be seamless, effortless, without forgetting - is creating the expectation which never gets met. So that makes forgetting as a personal failure. Which whispers... try better next time. Who's forgetting, who's trying?

It still feels like something I have to do, or I am doing. Like I am doing this practice, sometimes I am forgetting to do it, sometimes it's very nice, very flow. When it's very nice very flow, then it feels like that's the way to go. But still feels fkin extra. Like an extra layer of thoughts and intentions to the current experience. I don't want to think about the experience. Who needs to think about the experience? I am again coming back to the same expectation - I expect that this expansion and contraction thing, focused and relaxed moving through life should be a default thing. So why do I even need to do this practice? Am I seeking to meet this expectation? Or this expectation is not true in the first place and there is nothing to seek? w

It's hard to let it go cuz it feels kinda right. Is there something wrong to practice like this? Resetting the intention? I don't want to practice anymore emoticon Why? I am tired of seeking, and good without it. Seems backwards to do something to be like it already is.

I see this patterns, which I have already did before with other intentions - trying to figure it out if that's the way to go, for me in the future emoticon Like yess - now I am safe, I have my way, my little practice, I can do it day after day, don't think about anything else, and one day become enlightened. Wait sir, what?

This focused expansion can happen here and there spontaneously, without me having to maintain this practice. Or this is also an expectation? Extended projection? What is an extended projection?

...

2022-09-13
Same topic, next day:

The wanting to recreate intentions to be aware of expansion and contraction has left today mostly. Though some fear or pain or feeling of loss lingers which is asking if I can really really let go trying to practice, because at least few teachers are emphasizing this practice, and maybe there is something to gain from this practice and lose by not doing it? Who has something to gain, who has something to lose? Who needs practice? And this question brings to another fear, that maybe I am doing some sort of practice bypassing? Many people, teachers included, find it important. What do I know? Not doing a practice does not mean losing awareness. The 'practice' is done by itself without labeling it as practice. Just being, walking, talking, washing dishes. Intimately with experience. What else is needed? A conceptual framework which would say that this is a practice, I am doing it, and becoming skillful at it?

Without practice, without trying to explain something about the experience, without looking for something better, without the explanation about this... is freakin scary. This narrative of me being an practicioner, who prioritizes practice in the day, even chooses a way to make money which is closest to walking meditation, so he could polish glasses and observe the senses, be in the body, is becoming useless, meaningless. Who am I without the practice, seeking, what to do in the day? Where to go? It's hard to accept that this just might be it. As it is, without extra layers of meanings. This feels so... dissatisfying. Boring. This is why the narratives are created of doing some practices, going some places? The experience is only real(?) reference point. Thoughts about it does not change it for the better or add something to it. And the experience is quite dissatisfying, emotional body on fire, outside decorations doesn't help, nowhere to go! The only place for contentment is in the current discontent. But how? Where? What is here? I'll rip my face off emoticon

Questions like how is turning on the seeking again. Who needs to know how? How means something different than what this is. How is not true. How am I like this? 
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 7:03 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 7:03 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

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2022-09-16

Who wants to know what to do?

Hei,

The contemplative motor got started again. Over the past few days been just sitting on the couch for a while. After work and during days off. Quite a few of cravings went by. Thinking about something, feeling the tension to get away from here and get that thing being present, and going away. When thought gets interesting enough, giving in to it.

Today I've been sitting on the couch and a thought popped up that I should go to the gym. Followed by reasonings that it's enough days of recovery, skipped even too many days of the gym, and so on. The body is under an emotional turmoil, not in a pleasant state, which was going on and off for some time before the thought.

And there I noticed a pattern of resistance to a thought of myself doing something in the future. To hang dry clothes from washing machine after the meal that I am eating, etc. It's as if the physical discomfort and the thought merges and becomes a thought of me in the future feeling like shit doing something. Though when the meal ends, step after step the clothes gets hanged, still feeling the physical discomfort. When the doing is happening, it's fine, no much aversion to that, just experience. But the thought of me doing something is weirdly uncomfortable. In the midst of emotional turmoil. When the emotional state is neutral or pleasant, no such aversion noticed.

Okay, so I see a belief coming up that the way of moving through life should happen from spontaneous impulses. Effortlessly. Like sitting at the couch, pop! an impulse, I smile and start moving towards the gym. Or pop! and cleaning starts happening. Or pop! and doing anything is happening. But these impulses with the state of emotional turmoil is not popping that much. It's tending more towards the bare minimum to get through the day. Which obviously is more sitting, moving slower, just feeling. This state passes, as all the others, nothing personal to that. But this narrative of thinking about doing something, is it really necessary? Is the resistance of thinking what to do happening because of the belief which tells that no such thoughts should be happening in the awakened perspective? Can the desire to figure out what to do be let go of? Who needs to figure out what to do?

It probably also relates to what I believe about gym and what it means to me. Which I am not aware of at this moment emoticon It has bunch of health benefits. Probably. It makes me feel good, the state after the gym is more pleasant. Is here an attachment to pleasant states lurking? Cuz having more pleasant states is better, right? Not. The process of working out is fascinating too, with all the changes in experience happening. But what about skipping gym or not working out at all? I am losing the work I have done before, cuz if the break is longer, I have to start at least back at last training, not forward and progressing. I am missing out on all that pleasant states and good energy. I am lazy and this gym becomes a myth of Sisyphus. I am doing this meaninglessly. Because meaningful would be an development of aesthetical body? Because that's what's so important to me. Not doing it means not developing it aesthetically. emoticon And that's hard to let go. But what is it actually? A visual perception that is attractive to me. Which might not be attractive to another person. This perception is unique to the character, which is not true, cuz another character can have another one. And even to this character the perception is changing. so who cares trying it to be some way? Attraction to positive beliefs if condition is going and aversion-fear to negative beliefs if condition is not going. Which are all bunch of nonsense, because when there were no condition of me constantly going to gym, there was no such thoughts.

Coming back to not knowing what to do. Is it so bad? Does it need to be changed? Aversion to this state is happening which is related to fearful thoughts that if I am not doing something, I am missing or loosing, as well as fear that if this state will happen for a long time, and I have no control over when it changes, and no idea how to live my life emoticon What, when to do and when not to do is slipping out of my grip. But do really I have the control to choose what and when to do? The thoughts of me doing something are also happening without my control. So what am I trying to see here? That the fear based thinking what to do is not necessary? Like unnecessary pathway? Who knows it's necessary or not, if it's happening, it's happening. If it would not be happening, this contemplation would not happen probably also. And if not this contemplation, then ... ? A natural wave of relaxation and ease flushed, signing off the importance of anything, and giving trust to this.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 7:03 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 7:03 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
2022-09-17

What’s up desire?

Hey,

Still sitting on the couch. The place between doings. A thing that gets me up to do one thing or another is desire. Bunch of desires are flying by, but one sticks, and way we go. What’s up with the desire?

When word like desire goes by, thought follows: ah, that’s the root of all evil. Or it becomes equal to craving which is followed by thought of: ah, that’s the root of all suffering. Which is bad, isn’t it? So when it comes by and gets identified as desire, all the beliefs about it follows. But what do I know about it for sure? What do I do with it? What does it mean to me? What are my thoughts about it?

Found another belief: awake beings are desireless. That means: desire is what I am losing. Or letting go? Which is a bit scary, cuz what is going to make me do things? Truth has no desire - makes more sense - but still on conceptual level. Plus, isn’t desire what manifests things?

What is desire? How does desire appear? Has to have an object in thought: cacao drink, that show recommended, etc. And a belief that when the object becomes a current reality - it is going to be better than now (less hungry, more entertained, etc.). So this experience becomes not satisfying enough before the desired experience becomes this experience. This experience becomes painful.

This whole happening is not a separate thing happening for separated beings. So what? So there is no point resisting this happening. So what to do with it? Let go, give in? Do nothing or do something? At some point do something always arises from do nothing. Is here a choice really?

Fighting the desires before losing to one of them sounds way more painful approach. Does this just surfaced from subconscious? Is this the pattern that was going on? At times at least, it did.

Desire being unwanted creates all the mess. Resisted in other words. There is no choice happening for the desire to pop up. Is there a choice after the recognition of desire happening? Dunno.

Still, the expectation to become a desireless being is quite high compared to now. I am not even sure if that’s the words if one of them said it. But basically having zero desires - short and long term. Who cares how other people are? Are there other people? Who know something better? Some desires feels very close and not doing them seems impossible. Not necessarily now, but at some point. Like it’s maturing. Not requiring action now, but the idea is alive and exciting. Been trying to kill some of them or dismantle, contemplate out, but it keeps coming back, some for months, some for years. Is here still something to be seen so even that would break or it’s just the way it is? Anyone’s thoughts on this question would be interesting, can someone relate?
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 9:33 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 9:33 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Where is the thrill of seeking coming from?

This topic topped up. Got excited! Had to end my meditation soon after and go write. Wuhu, one more shit to let go! Or wtf is happening?

Not trying to practice either formally or during the rest of the day has left a shadow of sadness. Like something has left my life. Something very important. To which the whole life was reshaped and re-arranged. But sometimes it comes back! Spontaneously over the day remembering - oh, I should focus on my experience more, notice every sensation. And goes away… Then I get home, sit on my couch and silently hope that something pops up. A thought worth investigating, an intention worth acting. While the sit on the couch without agenda is still having one agenda - realize the truth. And this one agenda is dictating the pace of life which feels like slow death. Uppon opening my eyes in the morning I close them again because that requires least resistance and finally well after midday, when no more sleep is possible, I lay in the bed until I can’t lay no more. Because laying is time well spent. When I finish breakfast, I sit until I can’t sit no more, cuz most oftenly work is coming up. Same at the evening. Same on days off. The experiment to not practice for a day grew into a few months of living like this. Is this really not practicing or practicing in a sneaky way? I don’t know if prolonged sitting is the activity of most excitement. The excitement comes from belief that this sitting is aimed towards dissoluting myself. And like that it becomes more important than going to gym, or sauna, or woods. 

I am not very big on thinking what and when to do these days. Doesn’t seem like if you look the last few posts, but generally the trend is so. Letting go control, fucking off my life, and letting it solve itself. And it got me here. As if here is the whole described thing. Which is obviously false and beside the point. The point is that the thrill of seeking is dictating the day and creating extra layer to experience which holds me stuck sitting? Thrill of seeking what? (Long pause holding the question) Life after realization. What is it? Not true. Is it true that the sitting is beneficial? To whom? To a separate man who is trying to break through the illusion of duality? No experience confirms that such man exists. By the way, do I really have the choice to wake up earlier, get out of bed sooner, or sit less? 

This activity is also related to the feeling tone, because when pleasant dominates, the day rolls differently, but when negative is here - the day slows down and more seeking appears trying to figure out why does it not go faster? Can the day go the way it goes irrelative to how it goes? Seems like I have control over the how, but do I really? Can this go the way it goes irrelevant to how? How is not true. There is no how. It’s only way. 

How seeking benefits me? Finding meaning in time alone. Being messy does not matter. Living better life without tv or netflix, because it’s better to just sit. Finding meaning in doing nothing, excitement towards it. Not having to plan something (fun) to do; Or anything. Simply, it brings meaning to boring activities. Load of crap; but feels like good crap. But maybe it’s not the seeking that does it, but general equinimity with the way things are? Sitting or jumping, whatever - bring it on!
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/23/22 9:17 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/23/22 9:17 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
CAN I TELL SOMEONE WHAT TO DO?

Hei,

Can I tell someone what to do? In a form of suggestion, tip, advice, order? Is it context related? 

Sure, nobody is allowing or preventing to do it. The question is aimed more towards the resistance to do it in any form or context when it affects someone’s natural way of thinking and doing. Is here some beliefs in action telling that I cannot do it or it’s wrong or smth?

As a young seeker I have suggested few people to meditate that I believed would benefit from it, gave away books so they could grasp consciousness conceptually the way I did. Some reactions were rejections. Few persons have read the books. Most just did not give a fuck. And years after they would repeat the same patterns which was the reason I gave tips or books in the first place. I am incapable to change them, was an experiential answer to fuck off. This has become my pattern, my belief. Keeping shit for myself. Which now I see, is not so generalized, cuz I don’t know what effect some of the insistances had.

I remember some reacted to this in anger, some really put effort to try, but it didn’t stick. Also adding to the rule of not even trying to tell anything next time. The act of telling someone what to do would now have the charge of fear for wild reaction, rejection, and failure. 

Then Jed McKenna came with his whole notion of figuring shit for ya’self. I fell in love. Got biased by his opinion. Delivery of the message went straight to heart. Rejecting anyone telling me what to do. Rejecting teachers and teachings. Zipping my mouth even more when it would come to telling someone what to do or that this is a groundless belief that you just said. 

And people were appreciating this a lot. They have told me that they feel that they can be the way they are, they feel accepted, can open up more. The positive feedback encouraged to repeat this behaviour. 

This non intrusiveness is going on in the workplace (restaurant) too. When I see someone doing something not effectively or the way it is agreed to do, or anyhow - I do not say anything. And think to myself - figure this for ya’self friend, might learn better. 

When someone is complaining about their life, I do not tell anything too. Even asking questions that they would have to answer themsleves indicating falsness of their assumptions feel heavy. Is it because I then happen to be in a position where I appear as I would know something, which is a false assumption? Sometimes I really do have believed that I know something they don’t, something more, and based on that assumption, I could not speak easily. I believe I know my experience, the process of transformation, which is also false. Is the stuff learned from my experience applicable to someone else? I don’t know, what stuff, where is it?

I know sometimes a desire to tell stuff so they would understand stuff, happens. Resistance to that desire too. As if it is not allowed to be. Is the reason clear for that already? Belief that I know. Which sometimes really feels to be true. I know how this is supposed to be… I see you are doing it wrong. Should I do something about it? I don’t know how this is supposed to be… It breaks the chain. I believe I do which is not true. Or can some bypassing happen in this way of thinking? Bypassing what? Like bypassing stuff that would make the restaurant run better. Or anything else? People might spent years perfecting some processes and here comes someone who does shit differently. Who said that doing shit differently is not perfecting the processes? But shit that is very obvious, like setting up the table…? I don’t know all the possible options and that this is the best way for a table to be set up. I don’t know… 

I fear to ignore, bypass something that might be important. Like my input where it is needed. I do not know that too. I can ask, see what comes up. 
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago at 9/27/22 4:12 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/27/22 4:12 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
2022-09-25

RESISTANCE TO WORK

He’yo,

Noticing here and there some resistance to effort. Mostly at work this is happening. The idea is worse than the doing mostly. Having the idea that I have to do this and that is followed by push on the brakes with some curse word and going to do that anyway. So, one bigger curse word is building up before the work, and smaller ones during. Because of the smaller ones, the general idea of working sucks. If there would be a choice to work or not - it would be Not, for sure. If… Now there is no choice to work. Same as there is no choice to not work when working. Well, kind of… It is possible to find few minutes here and there of not working. But feeh, I don’t want to be looking for it. Avoiding it. Aand avoiding is probably even tougher. Cuz then thoughts that I should be working is creating tension. Nowhere to hide, fuck emoticon 

Something in the background is whispering about effortless doing. Jed McKenna’s words strikes again. This creates dissonance in what is happening, because when it’s effortful doing, I believe that it could be other way and resist that effortful doing. But where does the effort come from? It seems like all the effort is created before the doing by thinking about it. The doing then might be sloppy, but not so bad. And during that doing some thoughts comes up about next doing, resistance follows, and now seems like I am doing in resistance. Over and over again. 

A quick projection of me in the future happens and a wave of resistance follows. Projection of this experience in the future. But is there me in the thought? Do I have to do it? Am I doing it? Do I have to think about doing something? The thinking just happens, relax into it… But sometimes the doing is happening without thoughts, like cooking; next step is coming up without anticipation. Which adds to the belief that this thoughless doing without anticipation of the next step should be the default. Both modes are happening so none is true. 

Is thinking of doing something in the future a form of control? Feels terrifying to let it go, cuz then next step is not known and navigation is unclear. But how the thinking can be let go? It just happens. Let go as it happens… Dunno.

2022-09-27

RESISTANCE TO PLANNING

Hei,

The resistance to thoughts about future doing seems to persist. As if these thoughts are not allowed to be here. Or it’s not clear if they are just a natural happening or some control mechanism. I believe that the impulse to act should rise up totally spontaneously, without anticipation in the moment. Meaning, without thinking about the acting. Like from a blank state, just pop and moving. But what really happens, like today on my day off, I have no plans, and thinking starts happening, constructing the day, what and when will happen, even the next day. To make a plan, have a plan, and follow a plan, that’s where something is unclear, resisted. This seems like it should not be happening. Like it belongs to a time and space character, to a separate self, like it‘s keeping the illusion alive. Like it’s anti spontaneous, anti-flow, anti-truth, anti-awake way of being. Is it true that things should happen certain way? 

What’s up with that planning? Still feels like it’s rooted in delusion and can’t see the roots clearly. Is it? Planning… Sometimes necessary, like planning logistics of a trip. But sometimes optional, like today - can plan a whole day of doing something, but can be without a plan also. Just that without the plan I have no idea or control what the day is going to be like. Without the plan I fear that I might sit around the house all day, enjoy the day less than I could with planning few activities. The plan might not work out. To work out it seems like it needs effort, some plans… 

What is plan? Thought of me doing something in the future. Thought of next steps. Some plan might be running in the background: after this, I’ll make some food, then a call, then I’ll see. But there is more things on my mind that needs the doing at some point. At some point to translate a leaflet, at another - go to pharmacy. Few more that are optional, like go to the gym, spa, and grocery shopping. Everything is likely to happen, but it can not happen too, or happen other way, other day. At some point everything that needs to happen, happens. Does it need to be organized somehow in advance? Writing it all out (or thinking) and organizing in a constructive way. First this, then that. Does it make the happening easier or harder, having to maintain and execute the plan? I might just not feel like doing something when the time comes to do it according to plan. So the plan becomes a meaningless activity costing mental effort? Planning for the sake of planning - did that - with everything - not good memories. 

What’s the benefits of planning? Eases the fear or discomfort of not knowing what to do. The feeling that my life is slipping out of my fingers. That shit is happening without my control. Gives the idea that I can choose a rich, full of interesting activities life. Work towards something slightly better than here is. Like, sit at home in a slow mood, or sit at sauna/jacuzzi full of dopamine from the gym session just done. Is a plan needed for that? Plan gives some false security that having it I have the control to live a better, more congruent life. Congruent with what? With beliefs of what life is and how it should be?

Or is planning an activity almost inherent to the role of human beings that is the way of dealing with things that are pending to do? Like breathing; an pretty important condition that cannot be let go of. But who’s doing it? Breathing is happening in the moment, by itself, without effort or anticipation to do it. 

Is it true that planning = control? That’s the main fear that triggers the resistance to planning. I fear to be controlling my life because I believe that it is opposite to surrender? Truth? Awakening? Flow? What opposite? Putting anything into words is already contracting it to not truth, so how this happening of life can be contracted to, defined and controlled by words? It can’t? 

5 hours later…

The natural pattern of events happened to be way different than expected in the morning. Details came into picture as the day progressed, revealing where the day is going further. Duration of events, unexpected events occuring, feeling tone - none could be anticipated, or controlled, or planned. No need to be attached to schedule. Unless the schedule just happens to be so. Like a work schedule, or travel schedule. It befalls on me. Without trying to make it, and maintain it. Without executing it - the consequences are not the ones I desire. And still - it can change. 

Aalsoo, probably some residue is left of the belief to figure everything for myself. Does this apply to figuring out what to do? Doing nothing and allowing to come whatever comes is not very on the active figuring out side. But this figuring out has come from doing nothing/not trying to figure anything out. But then desire kicked in to figure out what’s up with planning and here I am. Which has been a nice exploration showing how words can never show what it is, but show what it is not! Nothing can be figured out, just seen what it is not. Which has some portion of seeking in it, because ‘The more I see what it is not, the more I see what it is’. This is powered by the desire to know the truth. But what is it that here can be figured out? Nothing about what this is, but just what this is not. So when something is starting to peristently blur the picture, seeing that there is no blur - helps. But seek another blur, or feel bad that there is no blur to see - is pointless. Even though did that many times. Is here some belief implying that there is finite amount of blurs and when I see through them all, the full picture will be clear? How can it be finite if there is no blur? 
Platu •, modified 1 Month ago at 10/25/22 4:58 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 10/25/22 4:58 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
2022-10-03

KIND OF RELATED STUFF

Back to the question of dj’ing. Here in the hotel. Now it’s the time and place where ‘choice’ is made. I don’t know if I want to play. For fun? For money? For what?

To agree - means that I am digging music, preparing the playlists, buying music, sorting, going to play. The music is something that has to be adapted to the place. Not 100 authentic to me. Lil bit more suitable for most. The music is not too bad. But can there be another type of music? For another place? 

Fun first probably. Sounds pretty fun. Music I got is good enough. 

What about this fitting in? Seems some resistance here. Having to fit in. Who’s fitting with what where? The idea of the hotel is different than a festival. The tracks would be different. Having to fit it, wtf is this? Thinking about the clothes too. To go with the vibe of restaurant, like they are. Follow their rules, style, standards. I fear to be an object of clinging.That someone would comment me. How I look, how I move, how I play. Especially in a negative way, like - this dude is out of place and his music is out of sync. It’s only my idea of the place which is not true. The idea can change. People perceive same things different way. 

I hate when people does not vibe with the music. It makes me tense and kills my vibe. At least that’s what I remember. Like, them not moving - means that they don’t like my music, that I am killing the vibe, I am responsible for their mood. emoticonD That’s fitting in again! Unconsciously to their level, based on assumption what is their level emoticon That might go out of context of gigs also to around people who are in fucked up mood, somewhat leveling happens. Not always, but can recall some. Is it just because the atmosphere transmits the vibe or some belief, including this, underlies? At some point the thought identifies that the vibe is fucked. Assisted by some emotional tone in the body. The thought is not true, the emotions changes. No problem. 

Is this based on the belief that someone knows better than me? I had one manager who was coming to the booth and telling what and how to play, based on his perception of current vibe and what’s needed to ‘fix’ it. He spent way more time thinking about the place, it’s concept, branding, playing himself for years there - but did he knew more? He’s still there. Does he know more? On one hand, his conditioning, his accumulated experience brings him to this point where the skill, overview of the place, feel for it is more refined, probably his intuitive sense for what fits is developed somehow better. On the other hand, none of this is true. 



2022-10-05

Same place, same job, different perception. Can one be better than other? In the mind, it’s easy to believe that he fits this job better for various reasons. But now, this, cannot be compared. So what, this knowledge, experience, means nothing? Or does it mean something? In mind, it does mean something, like a headwaiter has a better overiview of the service, knows the job better than a waiter, or runner. But each one is just doing their job. It’s too many variables, and no variable is true. But what does that leave me with? Dissmissing or denying all specialists, professionals, masters? Your experience is not true - go away!? Don’t tell me what to do? (A hipokrite!) Or go ahead and tell me but your opinion does not matter? What should I do with your opinion? Nothing, do I have a choice? I am afraid to tell my opinion, because I fear to interfere with their natural and authentic way of thinking. Can I really do some damage? If they listen mine opinion, instead of theirs. Like giving my opinion to the someone about the new kitchen design. Now that’s my area, the seeing just comes. But for someone it’s a new area, the seeing just does not arise that easily. Should I keep my mouth shut when the choice is tending towards horribly out of tune door knobs or tell my opinion? I kept it shut. I resisted telling it, because he/she should find out it him/herself? 100% his her way of thinking. Or telling my opinion? And if someone takes it without thinking - it’s their problem. They collect data anyway here and there on that subject, shops, shops workers, pinterest. My opinion might be just another data. Insisting on opinion might induce fearful response which is to agree without thinking, just to end the tension of the insistance. But that’s not my thing. 

So, what’s up with the opinion of others? Nothing to do with it. If a very very bad opinion from others comes to me about smth I do, that means something? Like my opinion on deluded ‘spiritual’ teachers who has big following and is further deluding people. That would be a heavy opinion to receive. But who knows how it would turn out? Might be a positive change for everyone. Or denyal - like fuck off with your opinion, I don’t need it, I know better. Accepting vs rejecting. There is no rejection! Rejection just makes worse for ya. Pointless pattern. Like the people accepting deluded teachings? emoticon Some rejection of some opinions might be good for them? Fuck, I don’t know. Still probably no need to reject, just listen, question and make my own mind. Does not matter ‘who’ is giving the opinion. 



2022-10-06

I feel obliged to give a response asap. Even though no one obliged me. It’s the pressure I am creating myself by thinking that it has to be done quick, shit must happen now, people are expecting my answer, the time is shrinking the walls of opportunity… The feeling of having to do something sucks. I have to do this, I have to do that. I have to prepare for exams, send CV’s, proposals, go to work, learn this or that. I have to do something = I don’t want to do it now or at all, but fear not to. As if the weight of undone things is putting more and more pressure. Where is the weight and pressure coming from? Thinking that something bad is going to happen because of not doing it or doing it too late and having it not good enough. Bullshit. Fear of lack in the future. Fear that the conditions will be worse; more expensive flight tickets, hotel, will not be able to get vacation… Even when the most scary thing happens - it’s never too much to handle. In the middle of any conditions it’s never too bad. 

But in this case of having to give response it’s me in the middle who … feels emotional turmoil right now, profound anxiety, uncertainty, incapability to change it or do something about it and fears that this cocktail will happen in the future, when I will have more responsabilities, and create more resistance to the responsabilities, the things I have to do. Like this experience extends over time and makes impossible to make decissions now, because now I do not want to do anything, how can I be sure that I will want to do that in the future? Maybe that’s the point that I do not need to decide or do anything now? Is any of this my responsability? 

The desire for anything is very weak now. Yesterday the experience tone was way more positive and desire was burning for many things, got accomplished few, but it did not matter, cuz the experience was good enough anyway: relaxed, bit by bit tackling the day, thinking lightly about the next bit, sometimes excited. But now, with this experience, the flow of the day seems way different, sometimes through struggle, heavy. The emotional state seems to have a huge impact on thinking. Same topics appear differently. Same things seems different. So what? Nothing, whatever. Here is the starting point. Everything is allowed here. What is here?

The only fucking thing to rely on is this, here, experience. Even though the experience cannot be relied on for the same thing. Thoughts on the same thing changes depending on the experience, but here we come again to the same spot - there is no true thing, it always changes, whatever it is, only this, here, experience is the way, shows the way. Or even the experience is not the way? What else? 

Time for pancakes.



2022-10-25

I feel like I need to figure this out. I. I am thinking about it. The thoughts are coming in relation to these topics. Like another craving. The need to know. To figure out. And let go. I know these questions are open bills. At some point some how they will be closed. But can this happen without these thoughts? Is it that I am afraid to let go control of these questions? That without the active participation of me, they will never be closed? And vice-versa resisting the thinking about it out of belief that everything should come into resolution by itself when the timing is right. Wanting to figure out and resisting the figuring out. emoticon Should everything resolve without thinking about it? It’s as if these questions are residing in the future, where they will be resolved. Is this a part of the resolution process? What? Just thoughts. So here looks like there is two sides: one is trying to resolve these questions and the other is trying to resolve the process of resolution itself/looking for truth/finding just thoughts. The moment these thoughts are observed as false, the whole process appears meaningless. 

It stil feels like weight on my shoulders. Having to do something about it and not knowing what. And not feeling like doing anything. Other then whatever happens/befalls. Can I trust that all that needs attention/to happen will befall as well? How can this be trusted without another belief to support the previous one? 

Okay, let’s give these questions a try. What are on my mind? 
The talk with manager about my future in the hotel, since my girlfriend left me, and now I don’t have plans to come back to my country.
For the readers notice, two days earlier the most lovely grandpa died, and one day later spent almost all my money in a day. Most for a planned purchase, but still. A sense/belief of loss, lack, pain of holding on, letting go, etc, were involved a lot. Thanks Universo for that, very articulate language. It’s still an ongoing process, look, I am talking about it. 
The next question is asking for a salary raise. Because I feel it could happen, but I don’t know what angle to tackle this question, and feel like it needs some thought. 
Another one is to figure out my payrate for djing. But with this emotional state I cannot see myself digging music at all and preparing after work, going for gigs, and so on. 
Does landlord approve my stay? 
Should I arrange my trip back for X-Mas holidays, when, how long, plane tickets? 
Should I do the ayahuasca at nye?

Honestly, fuck it all. I want it out of my head. But I am afraid to let it go. To take care on itself? Feels like kind of every question is related to my well-being/better life, and not figuring anything is detrimental to my life. Is this an amateur behaviour leading to a mediocre life? At least it’s not true. There is other people involved, kind of hoping to get started, especially now with the corporate xmas parties, there is perceived benefits to the workplace, and maybe some exciting doing for myself, more finances, yada, yada… 

Seems like personal responsibility, but what? When this shit closes new one opens, it’s not about closing it. The belief is that when it closes, then I will have no thoughts about it, nor it will require any doing from me. I don’t want to do shit. I don’t feel like doing any of this and I don’t see a me in the future who is doing it. Sure, now there is nothing to do, now just this is happening without much doing. Just sitting… bleh, sittting… bleh…. 

The money has no impact for this being. Neither for emotional state, more happiness, nothing. So wanting for higher salary and extra income for gigs is based on the idea that in future I will need it. And fear that in the future I will not have it. As if it would somehow accumulate into a better quality of life. As if the future is holding a lack. None of it is true, so why should I break my neck for it right now? 

Okay, but what about the fun times, the better conditions, more exciting work, shifts? There is no fun things. Just this emotional state through which things appear some way. I cannot force myself to have fun. I cannot affect this emotional state to be fun. It happens to be what it happens to be. As if conditions in the future would have effect now. Now I am happy that I do not have to do shit. So why do I need to create shit to do something with? 

Desire and intent, says Jed McKenna, is needed for shit to be created. Focused intent for/as a step, after step, after step. Somewhere I feel like a looser because I am not able to manifest shit. Because I don’t want shit. Okay, from recent experience strong desire and intent manifest shit perfectly. But what if there is nothing that I want clearly? No desire to begin with. Like, there is this possibility to create anything, like get/have anything, and yet I sit and do nothing. I don’t activate it, because can’t see something that I would want so much to do something about it. Is this the surrender part? Whatever comes, comes, and forget to look for shit myself? 
Platu •, modified 1 Month ago at 10/31/22 5:05 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 10/31/22 5:05 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Note that these further contemplations are done for myself only and innumerable thought processes have been left unwritten. This makes sense to me, no explanations in text provided. 
BTW: All the previous questions, except to dj or not, came in to resolution by themselves in two days. ;))


RESOLUTION OF KIND OF RELATED STUFF

2022-10-27

Where am I stuck? Thinking that I have to do something about these things that I have in my mind. 

This dj thing. Looks good on paper. Opportunity provided, doing some fun irregular thing, creative, good in the eyes of others, needed for the hotel, fun for the staff, good money… And I do let it all go because I don’t feel like it? 

What am I afraid to let go?
Opportunity to earn money.
Bonus points in the eyes of others.
Fun job.
Further pattern that would be related to this gig. 
Further opportunities provided by the hotel.
Be distracted by this ‘having to do’. 
Distracted from what?
Distracted from waking up, this kind of sitting practice/non-practice. 
H

Am I resisting this money income, like am I closed to the big money income? 

Distractions. Can something be a distraction? 

2022-10-28

What is the amount of money for the gig that I would be comfortable asking and happy receiving?

The tracks can be charged.
The time digging can be charged.
The time buying can be charged.
The time sorting can be charged.
The time playing can be charged.
And the uniqueness of the expression.

12 tracks per hour = 12*2 = 24 eur
4.5 hours of digging for 1 gig on average. 
1.5 hours of buying. 
2 hours of sorting. 

8 hours of prep for a gig. Or muuch more. Or less. 

2022-10-29

These doubts. Thinking and rethinking if this is the authentic path or some conditioned programm? Is this the doing happening by some activated programm or truth? Not knowing and wanting to know when is which. Which? Is there two things? Are they separate? 

If now I would have it then it’s good. 

Remembering these fucking teachers. What they are thinking. Looking for truth there… 
Like I should not be thinking. 
Thinking is idiotic. Robotic.

Wantin to know it is. Who wants to know? 

Mainly I do not want to spend my time for the gigs that I half assedly want instead be with musef. Have time to meditate and process emorions and shit. 


Figuring out life. Topic after topic, step after step. Or? Is there another way? Like a fully surrendered way where no figuring out is needed? Where everything every step is know by the consciousness who is moving the body accordingly? With the figuring out it’s as if I have the ability to control things. Where and how they go. Figuring out is not aimed towards knowing what to do. Not towards figuring out what to do. But towards not resisting the doing. Letting go control of when things happen. 

Like resistance to this fucking djing topic. It seems like I have to do smth about it. Let it go. Am I avoiding distractions? Okay thoughts, welcome, what’s up? 

After work…

I don’t fucking know if this is a program, some shadow stuff in action, whether it’s me controlling, trying, seeking, wanting, craving, avoiding, resisting or is it some authentic, natural, surrendered way of doing, like that it’s alright. That I am not moving away from truth. 

This dj’ing topics feels like struggle. Burdain. What is up? Maybe later in the future I will be more up to the gig. Maybe they will hire some pop dj who will play the pop music for us? 

Is this better than the working/doing at the restaurant? For what? For waking up. Restaurant is a program, set of commands. If - then. Like language. If I hear bye, I say bye. If I don’t understand, I ask to speak english. If some changes appears in let’s say - the way of allergies are taken - a new program gets installed and bugs fixed on the go. The job is to execute programms. Some times the program gets thrown off by some mistake, or new stuff popping in, having to think, ask, re-do, but then it’s learned and stored, and next time - it’s easy. Like the workaround on frozen cash mashine. Gotta try and see what works. Bar the same - when order of x coctail appears, steps this and that actives. Fuuck. So basic, so primitive. The competence of waiter or bartender is how well the programm is developed? 
Today the full tray of shit at the dishwasher did not fit my program and I got angry! Why me someone elses shit in the middle of mayham? And then got angry on myself for not being able to say no. 
The program is written by itself. 
Learning took place. 
Development of the programm in other words. 
So what?
When the programm is automatic, 1000 hours of development, some new shit and improvizations might be created. 
So what?
None of them are true, they are conditional and change all the time. They are happening a lot, even when speaking, taking morning shower, using paper after turd.
No point resisting them, they’re part of the deal. 

2022-10-30

This seems more important than dj’ing. Having time, aka not having to do anything seems important. Like going to work. Going to meet someone. Having to walk the dogs? Wash the clothes. What are these? Duties? Responsibilities? Something that has to be done? Same as making myself something to eat. Like contemplating. How this happening is any different as other happenings? Different thoughts related? Different causes and conditions? Different processes? Different experience? Different outcomes? 
This just sitting vs working. What are the differences on the mind?
I am more stressed, body is more filled with fear or some emotional tension. The heart beat is up, thoughts might be racing, body tensed, contracted, agitated. Loosing awareness of the body, most action happening on the thoughts thinking about the next step. 
And here now it’s chill, emotions are bit negative, but no stress, not having to do anything, not having to think about the next step, aware of the sensations mostly, they are on the free flow, breath is smooth and even. 
Really?
Who would choose one over the other?

This time off, just sitting, just feeling, no agenda, still feels more important for me than the working or djing or stuff. It’s as if I have to exchange this time for djing and preparing for it. As if this is more conducive for waking up. To realize the truth. Or unrealize untruth. Now the realization is that meditation is helping to wake up, practicing self inquiry, contemplarion, being still, silent, surrendered, being aware of sensations, noticing impermanence, becoming more clear…  But is it true?


2022-10-31

I would like to not be home-bound because of the belief that I have to be at home and contemplate. Cannot do anything, because being busy practicing. Seeking. 

I feel like I need to take the decission. It seems like this dj activity is distraction from seeing deeply and clearly. But isn’t that just the mind states that I am somehow attached to? Sure, sitting quiet at home makes the experience more focused, clearer, but is truth only be seen in focused and clear excperience? If I agree to move on with these gigs I fear that this might prolong my journey. Like as if I would spend my time less efficiently by being active with some doing. 

It feels so true that retreat is better than office job/lay life for waking up. Such a common belief, so many seekers doing this thing. In what way this is better? Would I work if I would not have to? Who’s making the choice? 

I am working because I have to.? Whoooo? 

It’s not authentic. That’s it. The music did not spike this ‘yfhaaa!!!’ sense, I am not going there to execute some program to stand and mix tracks. Because I can? Fuck it. Why compromise? For money? Out of fear of missing out? Out of fear to let others down? 

Is there some take-aways from this month long decission making? Nothing to take. Dunno. Is there options of which one has to be chosen that determines the course of life? Did I just take some pill? The fear of not doing it creates all kinds of bullshit reasons to do it which none of them arise naturally, as an authentic call to action, but just as thoughts thoughts thoughts. Only experience matters, the thoughts of money and benefits are bullshit. If experience no go, why cling to the thoughts? As if thoughts choose the course of action, but do they? Can the course choose itself without thoughts? All this thinking that I just did - just did that I don’t need to think about it anymore and do anything extra than I am already doing. 
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Chris M, modified 1 Month ago at 11/1/22 6:59 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 11/1/22 6:59 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 4596 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I'm curious - is this working? Jed's way, I mean.
Platu •, modified 1 Month ago at 11/1/22 5:13 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 11/1/22 5:11 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Hey! Every month or so, when a bigger opening appears - I have this thought 'Yea, boy! This.is.working!'. That's when I have no more questions, before they start appearing again. If I look 2 months back, 4 months back, 6 or a year, which by the way, the anniversary is around now emoticon)) the major difference I can draw, almost a progressive trend - is decreasing of friction in daily life. By that I mean, less situations are triggering wild reactions, less resistance, less questions, less seeking, which is less seeking not only for enlightenment, but for everything.

Surely, Just Sitting is way more Just than a year ago. Less mind activity trying to do something. Which now is growing more into Just making cocktails with a que of 10 people, but without a cue in thoughts. And just everything in between. Cuz still, these contemplations involve a lot of Doing Nothing/Just Sitting/Surrendering. Which brings to a big improvement in the ability to concentrate on the breath, for example. Less fighting going on in such meditations, moving with attention more gently, less narrative of how it should be conceptually, less narrative of any kind. No jhanas though, I happen to be practicing this once-twice per week.

​​​​​​​Also, the confidence of being able to face anything, go through any challenge, find answers within - is really something new, compared to a year ago. Before that I was always seeking for answers externally. Bit over a year ago, I was asking my parents for approval to quit job and go on this seeking journey. Now is around a month since I just stopped watching youtube. Just lost interest in these different sayings of the same message and hope that a new saying will do any difference. Youtube was my biggest addiction. Far out number one place for seeking and get away.
​​​​​​​
After 2022 Jan' retreat, we both with the psychotherapist agreed that there is no need for me to continue visiting her, because what we did together, I do alone now. Not trying to figure everything at once, but just piece by piece, what's needed. And both agreed, that only from within is seen best what's best for me.

​​​​​​​Also, catching some narrative, seeing through the thought pattern, inquiring - is happening more effortlessly, automatically. On the spot, during the day. I guess it's because of getting familiar in these contemplations how the mind works, how the patterns look like.
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Chris M, modified 1 Month ago at 11/2/22 7:45 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 11/2/22 7:45 AM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 4596 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Good to hear, thanks.
Platu •, modified 29 Days ago at 11/7/22 6:05 PM
Created 29 Days ago at 11/7/22 6:03 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
2022-11-07

SHAME ON ME

What are the necessary conditions for shame to arise? Memory of a past event. In that memory there has to be me and someone esle. Me has done something then which is judged now. It is believed that someone else is judging the event (me) the same way I do now and that someone else thinks that I am this or that, which is an unacceptable identification of me now. 

Ashamed of myself? What does that mean? I am ashamed of myself being all restless in conversations so I am afraid to go into conversation because I don’t want that other person would identify me as restless? 

Shame and fear seems to be closely related. 

Shame is like a glue that draggs some identity instead of letting it go. If yesterday I fucked up in the eyes of chef presenting the menu, today I think that he thinks that I am incapable of presnting the menu so today the conversation with him might be through the lense of yesterdays event/belief that I am incapable… 

Can I be ashamed to do something? Ashamed to talk about what happened? Afraid to tell what happened, because … example:
Two occassions: one, is that I had a dream; second, is that I fucked up the mirror of a car. 
In first occasion, I am not ashamed of myself because I dreamt the dream, but I am afraid to tell another person (whom I dreamt) that I dreamt them where we did some weird stuff, because he might think something which I am not! 
In second occassion, I am not ashamed of myself that I hit the mirror, but I am afraid to tell someone that I hit it, because he might think that I am a bad driver. And I am ashamed to be a bad driver who can’t park. 

Or I fear to tell someone what happened because I believe that this event is shameful? 

I am afraid to post this because someone might think that this is shit, and I am ashamed to be someone who wrote shit. But writing this itself is not shameful. And leaving in the notes is not shameful. Just when someone else comes to thoughts/is believed to exist, shit gets shameful. 

If I cannot open the shaker easily when no guest is around, I don’t care. If a guest is watching me, I get ashamed for being a barteneder who cannot open a shaker. 

I am this or that in the eyes of others. Is not true.

Even if a shameful event like this is happening now, is still an element of the past is happening. Identifying with something which has passed, making a continuous identity, situated over time - a thought. Not true. 

I am afraid that I will be ashamed i.e. talking about what happened. I am not ashamed to talk about what happened, because I am not talking yet, but when I will I fear that emotion/contraction of shame will arise. 

Or I am afraid to express some way because I might be ashamed for that later. I am afraid to tell a joke about myself, because I fear that I’ll become ashamed. AND THAT’S NOT A NICE PLACE TO BE -says past experience. So a cut, a resistance happens, an overthinking happens in the perfect timing for delivery when the impulse arises to tell a joke. Zickt pattern in a flash, and the timing is gone, the action is cut. 

How many times I have cut the action of recording a voice message… Getting all tensed up while recording the message while thinking what the other person would think of me receiving the message. Then thinking that I am incapable of recording a simple message. 
​​​​​​​
What are the shameful identifications of me? Slow and edgy (instead of smooth) in talking, thinking, and responding. Parrot of McKenna. Boring. Egocentric. Lame. Teacher. Serious. Incapable. Disrespectful. Ungrateful. In cosmos (out of reach, not here). Too proud to help. Conceited. Can I be some way? Am I some way? Who? 
George S, modified 28 Days ago at 11/8/22 5:22 PM
Created 28 Days ago at 11/8/22 5:22 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 2598 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Hi Platu, kudos for opening up about this stuff. I've said it before - shame is nothing to be ashamed of - but it's still a really hard emotion to process. A lot of us have it to some extent, it's just something that gets unconsciously passed on in families and other social environments. When it's hidden then it drives pride seeking behavior which either ends in failure and more shame, or else even if apparently successful only serves to increase the contrast with the shameful shadow.

It is something that you can work through though. Try searching on 'toxic shame', there are lots of good resources such as Homecoming by John Bradshaw. It's basically inner child work and works well in combination with meditation - going back as close as possible to the original source of the shame and allowing yourself to experience the feelings of shame without judgement. Try to drop the judgemental thought loops as much as possible and focus on the physical sensations of the emotion itself - e.g. blushing, increased heart rate, uncomfortable sensations in stomach, urge to get away and seek relief with some kind of pleasurable stimulus etc. It will probably be extremely uncomfortable at first, but with practice it's something you can get comfortable doing and eventually you will notice that the reservoir of old shame is slowly draining out of your system.
Platu •, modified 22 Days ago at 11/14/22 2:11 PM
Created 22 Days ago at 11/14/22 2:11 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Hey George, thanks for your input! Shame and pride seeking in my eyes really rides the same pattern of thinking what others are thinking about me in relation to some event/something. Just in one case it’s negative, in other - positive. 

2022-11-12

GUILT TRIPPING MYSELF

Feeling guilty. How does this happen? What are the features of guilt? It seems like it twists around thoughts of me doing something for myself and me doing something for others. That something has already happened and it is believed to be harmful. Mindless browsing, taking drugs, eating junk, financial damage to parents without ability to cover/repair myself, watching series, movies, not coming to work of sickness, not listening someone fully by pushing my own agenda, causing someone to take some unexpected action, not going to gym, not cleaning, procrastinating smth, spending too much money of stuff that is considered to be harmful, causing someone pain, etc.

I can be guilty for doing something, I can be guilty for not doing something. I can be guilty after a social contact, I can be guilty being alone in the retreat. 

And then comes the backlash of guilt powered behaviour - going to work being sick, making even tighter requirements to myself (going to gym, eating, practicing, waking up, etc.), not allowing myself to do something, trying to make someone feel better, be nice guy, helpful, ask, not care for myself, give it away to others, do stuff for others that I do not do for myself, like clean smth because someone might appreciate it, but not clean for myself, care for others more than myself, going to take the blame first, instead of communicating and taking it together with who was involved…. Even guilty to take the washing machine capsules landlord have bought and wanting to offer to split the expenses, or taking some cotton pads and trying to be quiet while doing it, closing the doors quietly, using bathroom for a while, taking some chocolate or spices, borrowing a towel, leaving dry clothes hanging, not even using the blowdryer on the fullpower, cuz she might hear that I am fucking up her stuff, which I would then use on full power when she’s not around. Hide my traces, fix things, do things to appear nice. 
(Added later): Being overly thankful if someone is giving me to use their car or facilities, or does smth for me, like I would have to deserve smth to get it and I don't. When I've crashed my new car parents have bought me being 18 y/o and drunk, the shame and guilt was strong. I could not believe when half year later they took me to choose a watch for X-Mas present, I was not feeling worth it or that I deserve it. Requirements I've put on myself was tight after this occasion. Stopped drinking, lots of gym, good grades, head down... Some dots connects in my mind. 

What’s going on?

Other people in mind. Trying to control their experience. So they would look nicely to me. 

It’s my fault - believing this to be true in relation to doing harm to others and myself. And believing in having personal responsibility to fix it. Even believing that being in unconscious thought-action patterns is my fault and this is enough valid reason to be guilty in relation to others. Am I these subconscious patterns? Am I responsible for the subconscious activity? Do I have to do something about it? Is making mistakes my fault? Not mine and doing something to fix it is fine, just when it extends over the mistake is smth off.

What about feeling guilty for watching a series or browsing some reels instead of … doing nothing? Meditating? Contemplating? Turning away instead of turning towards? What’s the difference between away and towards? 
It seems very true that watching a movie is worse for waking up (process) then meditating. But what’s the proof? 
This implies that I am in the process of waking up. Without this condition watching movie is watching movie and meditating is meditating, neither better or worse, cuz in relation to what? 
What about the experience of doing so?  Meditating is closer to truth then watching a movie? Does watching the movie cover somehow the truth? 
The awareness of sensations while meditating is more open, including more data through all sense doors, whereas watching the movie is focused on sight and perception, leaving other senses in background. So what? Identification with contraction? The contraction happens on many occassions, like cutting vegetables, lifting weights, making cocktails… Is it me getting contracted? 
Forgetting to be aware of the experience?
Who forgets what?
Not being aware of the whole field of sensory experience? Who needs to be aware of if? Seems like a high standard to seek. 



2022-11-13

PATTERNS OF ADDICTION

Few days sick at home. Bed mode mostly, lots of restlessness. Everything seems like a mess. Sleep patterns, health aversion leading to some browsing, browsing leading to guilt, feeling guilty for not going to work tomorrow, feeling guilty for being sick, cuz went to work went it all started. Feeling guilty for watching netflix instead of reading. And comparing all to some standard of retreat, like I am supposed to use this time well, and failing because of the browsing and netflix. The story of this experience… Dukkha action with guilt theme. Pronounced desire for deliverance, disgust, re-obs. To solve this fucking thing out, see through, rest and relax. No matter how much I meditate/contemplate, it’s still not enough. Pure dissatisfaction. 

Okaay. Just accepting the dissatisfactory nature/aspect/whatever instead of trying to find a way out is pretty okay. 

After some time of just sitting, mind/thoughts starts looking for something more attractive. This gets boring. Thinking about a movie, the desire seems to be pretty strong, like a desire to smoke a joint after a week of quitting back in the days, convincing game is on, thinking of loss if I’d not do it. Maybe it’s so strong right now because of past few days being on and off of movies/series/reels, maybe it’s some addiction thing that gets triggered in brain screaming for more dopamine, cuz the previous dose is wearing off? When I am off this stuff for some time, no such desire arises in such strenght. And when I come back after some time off it feels very very good, then it becomes less and less good, but brain screams for more, and go for more, but now guilt starts setting in and it doesn’t satisfy, and this loop happens of addiction? And then I say - no more off this shit, I cannot control it, so I stop doing it at all, before I justify to watch something specific, then another post, then another time nothing specific, and it sooner or latter becomes this pattern. I have repeated it many many times. Some times off screens for months, some times for days. Feeling guilty for wasting my time, depleting all dopamines and feeling no joy in other activities. The baseline for general chillness when off this stuff is higher, restlessness lower. Sounds like addiction to some hard drugs, but at this point it’s just socials, netflix, and soap2day.rs (all movies free). 

I don’t know what to do, I feel reluctant to define another rule, that I am not watching screens or whatever. But I don’t see that to be the way to go. Relapses happen, and some guilt following. But just distinguishing the experience, remembering the change of experience in this pattern, makes wanting to do it less attractive. It’s just not good for the experience, regardless of waking up game. I can be very aware while eating burger, then drinking 4 beers and eating some bar nuts (true story), but I can’t avoid the body feeling poisoned afterwards. Nothing bad - I wanted, I did it, I learned from experience. Same with food cravings - overdoing it to learn that it doesn’t get better afterwards. Heck, I don’t need to control anything, just go with the flow and everything sorts out at some point anyway .D Just stopping doing something also works, and then dealing with emotional backlash. 
Platu •, modified 19 Days ago at 11/17/22 5:30 PM
Created 19 Days ago at 11/17/22 5:30 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Note that stuff written here is being questioned or seen to be not true, me, or mine - without the questions appearing in the text. The statements are not true emoticon 

2022-11-15

TURNING TOWARDS AND AWAY

Some conflict is going on with watching the series. I want to watch it, but resist doing it, because I believe it’s wrong somehow. How? 

Something is coming up with this turning towards and turning away thing that Jed coined. That either you’re in one mode or the other. Where towards means death/impermanence and away means… what? I don’t remember. Not sure even if I remembered the first part correctly. Comes down to my interpretations, but what I do remember was something along the lines that ‘when you do sign off in front of tv (turn away), remember that you’re gonna die’… which is probably what I remember wrong too. It’s wrong anyway. 

Fascinating how shit that I don’t even remember properly can have impact on my thoughts now. Not gonna lie, these towards and away things I’ve been using quite a lot trying conceptually understand and navigate where I am at and where to go. Towards - good, away - bad. Towards - meditation, contemplation, walking, sitting, and other low mental activity required doings where I am able to be aware of the senses most of the time. But what this away means I assumed I know, but it appears I don’t. Activities like browsing, watching screens, reading, conversating, working, listening to music, djing, partying, shopping, driving, ordering smth, problem solving, navigating in a new airport/city, cleaning, sometimes eating, and so on - have been judged to be in the away zone.  

What is good is very narrow compared to what is bad. Imposes limits and creates resistance to the actual happening or idea of stuff in the bad category. Which is a stagnant concept, because the actual happening is always changing. Concept cannot follow. 

Does the away part mean away from naturally occuring thoughts, emotions in the forefront? If I am watching a movie, or communicating, or cleaning, the focus is just there, contracted around sight, sound, perception, touch of broom, perception of dirt - contracted around stimulus, but when no dominant stimulus is present - ‘personal’ thoughts and emotions comes in forefront. 

So here seems to be thoughts and emotions = towards and good, and stimulus = away and bad. Is it? This way I can feel through and process the emotions? And stimulus is disturbing this process? Is that what I need to do? Who what? Cannot prove it, cannot disprove it, still feels somehow true. I start moving - pain in cheat fades away, I stop - it comes back. 

For whom is there a difference? Is here an active doing required to notice or feel the sensations? Or certain conditions? Specific intentions? Then why certain settings still feel more preferable than the others? The sensations are on display vividly now, fast, and tiny, whereas when I start moving they seem to be more continuous, slower, bigger, but are they smth else? I can spin a cord so fast it appears a circle, but I don’t believe it to be a solid circle. Dead still cord or in action doesn’t change what it is. So who cares if it’s still or spinning?

Still, if I’d had to do something from the moment I wake to the moment I fall asleep everyday. I‘d be pissed. No time for seeking, listening, being with myself, thinking, doing nothing. It’s bad for the process of waking up, isn’t it? Am I waking up? Or it’s just the attachement to activieties of seeker?

When I am working I am glad to have lost most of the narrative that tries to figure out smth or be aware or notice or whatever. Just working, and rarely remembering my quest here and there. But at home is where all this gets wild - sitting and sitting, questioning, resisting to go grocery shopping, gym, read, watch anything - feeling like this is more important to end this quest, but is it? At work this quest barely arises, watching smth on the screen - too, shopping - too, but at home it’s on. Am I afraid to let go the quest at home? Or am I being distracted off the quest other times? I can not do it at work, I can not not do it at home. And that’s it? No freewill again? 

Who wants to know? 


2022-11-16, 17

When external stimulus is quiet, the experience speaks loudest. The experience is most vivid and thoughts start reflecting on it. Words come up that are never the actual experience. But is the experience in some form the truth? 

A hidden hope lives in this sitting - that this shall pass sooner. This emotional state. Dukkha. Is it in my control to make it go away? The idea of EQ seems to be a better option from which to see the world because this one seems to rob the joy of living. Where is the alternative? Is it my job to do something? 


Grooming, ironing shirts created more resistance then laying in a bath or this. Thoughts like ‘why do I have to do this?’, ‘it’s a waste of time’, ‘this doesn’t count or do me any good’, ‘I’d better do some practice’ ran through. Here it feels safe, like I would have control of awareness, thoughts, it’s moving gently, I can inquire, relax, sitting still, nothing to expect or unexpected stuff happening, no need to do anything, figure out or decide, it all seems familiar, thoughts slow down. But grooming and ironing happened with tensions, questions, not knowing who’s doing it or how it should be done, no familiar picture to put it in, no way to control the process to fit the picture, lacking the goal to realize the truth, therefore meh, not interesting. 

Ha! It’s just an assumption. That this doing is having a purpose or goal. I reach out to take the glass of water for the purpose/goal to drink it? I might drop it midway, so what - the purpose is to take it to drop it? It’s thoughts, without which there is no me, glass, or purpose. 

It’s an assumption that just sitting will take me to realization what just sitting is, as well an assumption that this body/nervous system/smth needs to adapt to the natural state which is done through meditating. It’s an assumption that the emotions needs to be processed, its attachment to thoughts cut, and that writing is through which it’s done. 

Back to turning towards and away thing. Towards death or impermanence? And away from death or impermanence ... to thoughts? Which appear and create another reality. There is no one who’s turning or nowhere to turn, but thoughts create the effect of away and absence of them - towards (unless the thoughts are seen in real-time to be impermanent too). It’s not about particular activities, it’s just not reflecting on them - which is what’s happening by labeling it towards or away, so this gotta go too, Jed. 
Platu •, modified 1 Day ago at 12/5/22 4:49 PM
Created 1 Day ago at 12/5/22 4:49 PM

RE: Platu's spiritual autolysis

Posts: 42 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
WORKING DOUBLES? (Purging work out)

2022-11-19, 20

The manager asked me to work doubles for a week because he’s lacking staff. I agreed immediately and questions started to pop up whose answers seem to reside out there (not in here). That’s when the experience became heavy - having questions, wanting to get answers, and resisting the whole thing because it feels like I am born into these thoughts and the impermanent flow disappears. The experience becomes burdensome. 

The questions are related to the extra pay for overtime, and basically asking for better conditions. None of this has a direct impact on the experience during the shift because it’s related to money. Some anger is coming from the belief that the conditions for overtime are not fair because some workers go for the overtime to earn and save as much money as they can and it’s better for the company to not pay extra because they want it anyway. And now they need me and provide no benefits. And so I want to ask for better conditions. At least something, I believe I deserve it. 

To ask for better conditions must be some belief involved that define what they are. More money vs less money. More work vs less work. Smaller room vs bigger room. Sea view vs street view...

Intuitively this feels like another pattern to let go of but the fear is trying to convince me otherwise. Can’t you even think and decide what’s better for you? Are you afraid to ask? So ten years later you’ll be working in the same place for the same salary? How will you get if you’ll not ask? Do you think there is a lack of something, why don’t you ask?...
Is t’here a lack now? 
Am I lacking something?
Am I bypassing some aspects of this human life?
Is seeking better conditions a form of control? 

...

2022-11-27

I am having these repetitive thoughts about work. Seems they got some fuel, cuz they’re running for a week. I have been asked to work for longer, instead of days off too. Other times it seemed like the place was calling me to stay longer - it felt not fair to leave everyone behind with the crazy workloads where everyone was working overtime too. 

Few months ago I was happy for over time because I had a carrot dangling in front of me saying ‘maximum money in six months’. That gave some motivation to work longer or 16 days in a row. Now the carrot is gone - I have no end date, and enough money to go by. And I prefer to not work instead of work, and less hours instead of more. The work is tiresome and stressful, having heartbeat 100-120 for 8 hours or more. Rushing, running, solving problems, and executing tasks one after another. It’s easy to think of more interesting and pleasant experiences then work. The work seems like something I have to do. Before I find a way to earn money in an easier, interesting, and pleasurable way. This work right now seems like a waste of time, which I want to keep to a bare minimum. 

I feel reluctant to give more energy there. I resist what is extra to the contract. I don’t want to belong to the hours-hungry coworkers. I don’t support the saving mentality. I don’t support having this much staff for this much work. The intensity is fucking high! 

The problem is that I feel bad saying no or leaving work at the end of the shift when I see that my input would be useful. I see the things to do and I know they will have to be done at some point. The work does not disappear when I leave, or does it? The time at which my shift ends is pre-set, not adaptivee to the current situation - so is it my problem that I cannot adapt? Am I playing my role poorly saying no to more work? 

It feels like I want to fight for myself there because all this rush goes for the service and the place, but where is me there? Where is my experience, where is my conditions to be in? What is in it for me? If I take a break, a coffee, or do shit slower, it feels I am taking away from the service and place and playing my role poorly. There seems to be no place for self during the service/work. 

Having money feels nice. Being able to buy everything needed most conveniently without counting is a benefit. Satisfying all current needs where money is needed without thinking about money is the main benefit. And it’s enough to achieve this without the overtime. No need for more money, but also having a small buffer in case I would leave the job or something. But who cares what if?

So I am in this work-spend cycle. The way out is in, I hear in my thoughts. I am not enslaved? How to make this work part more acceptable then? The only way seems to be letting go thinking about it. Thinking makes it the 8 hours that is taken away from me. Or even more. Or in general, the time that I give away. But is it? 

I want to have more fun during the work, but either I am not able because of the stress and shit or there is no time. Not much joy seems to be springing out. Or at least I want to be joyful all the time emoticon Like working on this muffled joy that is ready to spring out any moment when the timing is right. 

Not working longer seems to be what I believe love for myself, taking care of myself, the experience, and making it easier on my body and nerves. So is this the choice that I have to make this experience better? The control to live a bit more on my terms life? Or am I somehow ignorant for accepting the conditions where more of my energy is required? It’s like accepting the abuser because you’re ignorant that he is, but once you see the damage it causes - no more. Is the workplace an abuser? Is it my fault for not being able to surrender and making problems where is none? Am I not respecting myself? 

The signs of the workplace might be indicating that it needs my effort, but can I ignore it, because it’s not my business/not my responsibility to make it work or even out the gaps? It doesn’t feel right to blame the management and just sign off. Or by signing off the management can get the message? Just do what’s most convenient for me and fuck the rest? Neither seems to be the way. 

Is there a reason to resist the work? 
If guys would not have accepted to work doubles this week, the restaurant would be really fucked. Guests would have to be canceled. But to whom I’ve talked, all prefer to work more hours so it’s fine for them. I don’t and it’s not fine with me emoticon bzz, can’t shake this feeling away of being robbed. Is this the cause of resistance - this preference? 

Seems hard to trust this when the belief is that this is wrong or somewhere else is better. All so relative, because it’s the best I’ve had and the beliefs are supported by the opinions of people around. Is this some collective unconsciousness? 

If I say no - am I a bad team player? Does the team get hurt? Am I just being a princess and not fulfilling my role fully because of the needs and opinions of a princess? Or on the contrary - it’s not my problem? Is hard work what people do out of fear? Can I not work hard? Is this some morality to be there for the team?

Since I am here, should I go all in participating in the role or go on my terms/conditions? I don’t get to choose the conditions very much, and trying to manipulate the conditions feels like a burden. 

What is in for me for playing fully? Nothing in the moment, just giving giving. Without the promise of a better tomorrow gotta go on trust. Or I don’t have to do that and take on the role so seriously? How to know? emoticon) Is there a choice? Does the role play fully by default and only my thought patterns is resisting it - finding reasons why not to play? 

There is no fully or not. A time comes and the role ends. Who cares when the time will come or how it is going to look in between?


2022-11-29 

DOES UNCONSCIOUSNESS HAPPEN?

What is true? Unconsciousness happen by thinking/imagining what is not here. In which believing that somewhere something exists. Is there a point for thinking? Who's being unconscious? Does unconsciousness happen? Or the illusion of me and stuff which obscures the consciousness? 

Having to take the ice, cream from storage, make a cocktail for a guest who’s waiting at the bar, bring cutlery for another one, clean lounge area, wash glasses. 
- All of this has to be done for service to happen. Not doing it is not an option. And it has to be done by me, otherwise, the service becomes edgy/poor. I have to do this. Also, some looking/observing is needed for what is needed to do and how to prioritize it. Is this the mind’s thing? Or can it happen without thinking? Or being aware of the thinking in real-time? 

Isn’t this kind of thinking creating stress and rush? I am running for ice, thinking about the customer at the bar; when at the bar, remember that I’ve been gone taking ice and cream and not being conscious of that, at the same time thinking that I have to make it with the cutlery before the food arrives, and so on. 

I fear that if I let go of such thoughts, things will not happen. Or I’ll forget what to do now. And take more time than I could, which leads to worse service, and taking the bad (slow, out of order, etc.) service as a personal fault. Fear to blame myself that I could have done better (moved faster, been more focused, etc.). 

Such thoughts just takes all the attention. And triggers stress? Rush? Rushing because thinking that I have to be in the destination as fast as possible? All stress is in the head?


2022-11-30, 12-01,02, 04, 05

FEAR TO POST THIS?

I am afraid to post my contemplations. My emotional purging. The shit that stinks most. Without covering or justifying it to look better. As if I would be painting a very fucked up picture of myself in public. Is it the identifications with the written thoughts? As if they would belong to me. It’s no problem when these thoughts are laying privately in the notebook. But with this public aspect - they appear to be written by me, about me. Thoughts related to me. 

Now it’s me, you, and the thoughts. I have no control over you. How you perceive these thoughts is where my insecurity lies. You perceive these thoughts and think about me. I know that this is all not true, but I fear that it might appear true to you. And you, believing it’s true, will go on some quest to hurt me and I will be in pain and drama. 

I fear that this gets identified to me. And this becomes the perception of me in someone's head. I have many identities of people I know and internet-know. These micro judgments of who they are based on the memories of encounters with them or their content. My conditioning of the person? But it’s not who they are. Same as it’s not who I am. No accumulated identities exist. 

But what if someone believes it exists and goes into action based on such assumption? What worst can happen to me? Death. Okay, second worst? Having to participate in some stupid course of action and material loss. Third? Be this guy in someone's head. But in whose head this is happening?

So what is the point of posting this? It exposes the identification with the written thoughts part a lot. Remembering them hurts. It becomes who I am for a moment. Writing something good - proud, something bad - shameful. Measured by how I think others are seeing it. What’s the point of thinking how others are seeing it? Is it creating some context within which the expression is happening? Or it’s all irrelevant and only this perspective matters? 

Writing having you guys in mind makes the sentences more polished. Writing only for myself like in the ‘Working doubles?’ contemplation makes it something that I am not proud of showing to others. Incongruence? Lack of integrity? 

Purging words without second thought of how they appear to others vs writing and thinking through. But whose perspective is it anyway? Maybe I am used to writing carelessly and now I feel trapped having to write in public which goes extra hard? 

I still have a bit of the remaining tendency to challenge myself and push over what’s comfortable to me. Which went into writing. But why, what’s the point? Is all discomfort an illusion? Seeking or going into it is what? Making me grow? Giving more possibilities to choose from? Overcoming the limits? As if there is me who wants to do something and is afraid of. I want, but I am afraid. I want to post this, but I am afraid. I want to do it to not be afraid. Fear of bad outcome to me in the future. Is there one? 

No one knows that I am challenging myself. It might just appear that I am a bit nuts. Past trauma coming up of being in dark night and ignorant of that, depersonalization, and psychedelics. It was so off the ordinary state that I knew myself in, that I was convinced I was going nuts. I was convinced everyone is seeing this externally too. 

The identification with the thoughts is making all the difference. What else is there to be identified to? Without identification with thoughts/imagination everything else appears impermanent by default, isn’t it? Thoughts create all the solidity. Making something out of this, creating continuity out of impermanence. Or does the solidity appear somehow else? I get born into sensations of some action, doing? Getting born into the continuous appearance of breath? It’s still the activity of the mind - creating continuity by intentionally focusing on it. 

So mind or thoughts, what is the difference? Movement of mind is movement/contraction of attention all over the experience? Can the experience happen without mind? Or is mind fluidly fabricating the experience real-time as part of the deal whereas thoughts make it appear solid? This and that - how does that appear? Me and not me? Identification with sensations as me and content of the sensations as smth else than me? Can’t take no more, bye. 

Back to posting this. Feelings of shame have happened remembering some expressions. These intense contractions following thoughts. What is going on? I want to present a better version of myself. I don’t want to appear weak, confused, doubtful, so vulnerable. It’s like getting emotional, acting out on that emotion, and regretting when it passes. Because I believe that that’s what people remember about me? I am not aware of how other people are remembering or identifying me, therefore I have no reaction to that. It only hurts when I think. Why does it hurt then? I become a these thoughts and emotional reaction happens. Why does the emotional reaction happen? Because I believe it’s true? 

Fear to expose unfinished process? Is there end version of me? Finished process? 

Posting this. Doing this ego exposition. I'm still not clear about it. What for? Leads to more beliefs. Accepting the process in whatever shape or form? Why not? Is this pointing to some place? Does something remain unseen? 

Sharing me struggles is something I tend to keep to my side. I've been opening up more and more, but never thought about the resistance towards doing it. The wanting, the urge to speak out something were killed many times. What is opposing that? Is there something I believe about struggle that is not worth sharing? 

It's not true. Telling someone what have happened yesterday, I can't find a point to bring it back. Telling some mid process - I don't know how it is going to turn out and I am afraid to appear making a mistake, so I better make mistake silently. As if ignorance and not knowing is my fault. Or that things tending unfavourably is my mistake in manifestation? I am bothering someone telling my dreams? But mostly is fear of manifesting more of the same - because of focusing on the struggle part? 
I don't believe I choose to go through any shit and if that shit appears as a struggle, what's the difference vs sharing the high parts, if sharing at all? Just different emotions related? Even on simple things such as sharing how can't I find a car to rent all over the place. The only complain I got is that I cannot legitimately complain. Anyhow, what's the point in doing that? No point, no rule, no problem.

Am I doing any good here? No way of knowing that, but no. Not in a sense that I am seeking to make good by introducing spiritual autolysis example to the community, not in any other sense I can think of. It's for personal un-development. To un-be contracted expressing myself in the public? Is that a desire? Public? Then what? 

These thoughs have happened already. They are faced already, no fear for that. The remaining fear is to show it to someone else. The fear that it might live it’s own life without my control. No control over what goes out or where or how it lands? What goes out seems more controllable which leads to struggle expressing it? Believing that it could be better? That there is a better way doing this? 

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