Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HELP

Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HELP Happy Like Me 10/1/22 9:32 AM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 10/1/22 10:39 AM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 10/1/22 10:40 AM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Happy Like Me 10/1/22 10:36 AM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 10/1/22 5:34 PM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Happy Like Me 10/2/22 3:32 PM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Chris M 10/1/22 6:10 PM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Happy Like Me 10/2/22 3:31 PM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Chris M 10/2/22 4:39 PM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL George S 10/3/22 12:16 PM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Happy Like Me 10/6/22 9:41 AM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL George S 10/6/22 1:31 PM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Eudoxos . 10/4/22 6:02 AM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Happy Like Me 10/6/22 9:52 AM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Chris M 10/6/22 8:25 PM
RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL Happy Like Me 10/7/22 4:31 AM
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Happy Like Me, modified 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 9:32 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 9:32 AM

Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HELP

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Hi guys, I have a question about mindfulness, anxiety, insight and fusion (becoming one with stuff).
I have great access concentration and mindfulness of breath but terrible insight practice.

For that reason I’m practicing my mindfulness in daily chores. However when I try to fully be aware of whatever I’m doing,
I merge together with the act of doing and the object. The best way to explain it when you see people do zen of archery or
these samurai warriors becoming one with the sword??? Like it all becomes one thing. I think this happens due to concentration.

When this happens I come to the conclusion that this must be NOW and then I sense that 'this NOW: moment / point in time completely empty'.
However this ‘sence knowledge’ does not come from my brain - I sense it and then somehow translate it into my brain.
Then when my brain comprehends it I freak out and feel anxiety, like my ego doesn’t like what is happening.

I have the same when I inspect the state of bliss but then without the anxiety and the 'time aspect'.

Q 1. Why am sensing emptyness (nothing/void) outside of meditation and what is that?

Then there’s a big problem; Whatever experiences arises there is never a clear insight.
For example Daniel writes: “Some may perceive that all phenomena are arising and passing away, and wherever they turn their attention may notice the transience of sensations. Extrapolating from this clear perception, they may realize: “Ah, this means that there is no permanent self.”

If I experience this, yes I too perceive the arising and passing away but there is no realisation “Ah, this means that there is no permanent self.”
Sometimes there is but it’s always off the cushion. Like now I experience emptiness but there is no conclusion / insight.

Q 2. Is there something I can do about this? Can I unblock this? Can I do vipassana if I don't have insight.  I’m starting to feel frustrated and kind of dumb emoticon

Q 3. What about the sense thing? It’s sooo difficult to explain but it’s like your not thinking with your brain but another part of you that is not in the brain. The information is already there and you can tap into it. I know this sounds weird. What is that? Is it mind?

Q 4. And the merging? I have also ‘fused / melted’ together with my mediation object and gained new skills after that. What is that about?

I do experience autonomous sensory meridian response and have ADD/ADHD, so I know for a fact my brains are wired differently.

Your input would be kindly and highly appreciated emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 10:39 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 10:32 AM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL (Answer)

Posts: 6854 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
No worries! It's just resistance. It happens to most practicioners, although the way it manifests can vary. You are getting close to an insight but resistance gets in the way. Just keep at it, in a pace that works for you. Resistance will fall away eventually. The fact that emptiness makes itself available off cushion shows that you are getting ready for it. The merging is a good sign too. Part of you already knows that separation is a construct. 

I have ADHD too. It doesn't prevent insight. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 10:40 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 10:36 AM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL (Answer)

Posts: 6854 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Oh, and as for the sensing already being there, that's nonduality. 
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Happy Like Me, modified 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 10:36 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 10:36 AM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Thanks emoticon Is it a good idea to inspect the resistance?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 5:34 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 5:34 PM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 6854 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Yes. 

Just don't beat yourself up for it. Have compassion with it! I have a feeling you already know that, though. emoticon 

 My best wishes for your practice and wellbeing!
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Chris M, modified 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 6:10 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/1/22 6:09 PM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 4596 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
When this happens I come to the conclusion that this must be NOW and then I sense that 'this NOW: moment / point in time completely empty'. However this ‘sence knowledge’ does not come from my brain - I sense it and then somehow translate it into my brain. Then when my brain comprehends it I freak out and feel anxiety, like my ego doesn’t like what is happening.


Happy, what do you mean when you use the word "empty" in this sentence? I have more questions but would like to get your answer to this one first.

​​​​​​​Thanks.
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Happy Like Me, modified 2 Months ago at 10/2/22 3:31 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/2/22 3:31 PM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Let me give you an expample of what I mean with empty: When I was in my 20's I studied philosophy and one evening I was analytically dissecting Martin Heidegger Sein und Zeit (Being and Time).

At some point I was walking around in my room thinking about it and I was just thrown into this black space: a complete void, it was nothing, no sound, no life. Then I didn't sense it but was inside of it. This freaked me out so much I started having pannick attacks and got into a deep depression. After that I stopped studying philosophy and moved to another city.

With empty, I mean: void. There is nothing and I sense that it is empty.
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Happy Like Me, modified 2 Months ago at 10/2/22 3:32 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/2/22 3:31 PM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Thank you  Linda emoticon
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Chris M, modified 2 Months ago at 10/2/22 4:39 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/2/22 4:39 PM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 4596 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
With empty, I mean: void. There is nothing and I sense that it is empty.


Got it, thanks.

I asked because it didn't appear to me that your definition lined up with the Buddhist meaning of "empty" that we all tend to use here. In our Buddhist parlance, the word empty basically means lacking permanence and a definitive location. This gives me more clarity in regard to what you're talking about.
George S, modified 2 Months ago at 10/3/22 12:16 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/3/22 12:16 PM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 2598 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I used to suffer from panic attacks when I was younger, and then when I started meditating I would sometimes find myself inside a void like you describe and start to panic. My heart would start pounding and I would experience extreme fear. Basically something inside me was reacting to the experience and saying 'this is death'. But if I sat with it and just watched it then it would pass pretty quickly. I mean it's actually a pretty interesting reaction - pure fear without an object. I also started investigating whether it was really empty, or whether my mind was actually creating a subtle object out of "emptiness" or "nothingness", which turned out to be an interesting gateway into the formless realms ...
Eudoxos , modified 2 Months ago at 10/4/22 6:02 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/4/22 6:02 AM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 110 Join Date: 4/6/14 Recent Posts
Insight is seeing thing clearly, in the moment. Analytical realization of the insight (like: "Ah, this means that there is no permanent self") is a side-effect which some ppl seem to have more and some less. If you try to judge your own insight, you will mostly see your own hindrances without realizing that (doubt: I have no insight! /  conceit: Wow, this is deep! and such).

Unblock it by seeing this wanting to have "clear perception" (which is wanting - note that, and don't follow), the resistance, the feeling of being blocked, the restlessness — the wanting-to-exprience-something-else-than-what-I-am-experiencing-now.

For a meditation-informed approach to anxiety/panic/..., I recommend Judson Brewer's Unwinding Anxiety — something I enjoyed recently.
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Happy Like Me, modified 2 Months ago at 10/6/22 9:41 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/6/22 9:41 AM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Yes, I have been in the formless realms but somehow that feels different since you are prepared for something to happen. Going into a void when you're doing your dishes is kind of freaky, l.o.l. But I'm having more of these experiences off the cushion. Last night I woke up at 3:00 AM and had ????<br />I'm in existance&nbsp; ---&gt; I get sucked into no existance --&gt; get thrown back into existence. The whole thing lasted for about a second. This one was more like the first experience. But the non-existance thing obviously can't be true because I registered it. But it was weird.
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Happy Like Me, modified 2 Months ago at 10/6/22 9:52 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/6/22 9:49 AM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Great advice and explanation Eudoxos, thanks! Actually the insight thing was kind of projected on me by a friend. I'm doing Shamata and do yoga. He keeps asking me about my insights and then my answers seem to disappoint him. But he is kind of against yoga and shamata and thinks Vipassana is the only path. So now I try to observe more and try to takes notes during the Shamata practice. But I have been only meditating for 8 months. However I do have great progress and am feeling much more calm and quiet, which was the initial goal.
George S, modified 2 Months ago at 10/6/22 1:31 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/6/22 1:31 PM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 2598 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I used to have weird stuff happen in the night as well. I would wake up without any ability to remember who I was and it would persist for minutes. It freaked me out the first couple of times it happened, but I got used to it and it stopped bothering me. I think it was a control thing for me. Even when I was going pretty deep in meditation, there was still this background sense of me being in control of the experience as the meditator. Then in the night when the default mode network and defenses are down, there's an opening for a more uncontrolled kind of experience to happen. I actually kinda enjoy it now and intentionally explore those states using psychedelics, though there's always some amount of fear when I'm pushing the envelope. That's just part of the game really. It's pretty amazing how far outside the bounds of normal experience the mind can go and still return basically as functional as before. And then having sucessfully navigated such experiences, I have less anxiety and more confidence that I can handle whatever my mind or life will throw at me (including death ...)
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Chris M, modified 2 Months ago at 10/6/22 8:25 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/6/22 8:25 PM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 4596 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
If the mind is actively creating our moment to moment realty it's not a stretch to realize that it can create just about ANY reality. Never discount mind's power.
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Happy Like Me, modified 2 Months ago at 10/7/22 4:31 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 10/7/22 4:31 AM

RE: Mindfulness: merging with action / object —> emptiness —> Anxiety. HEL

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Totally agree!

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