Jeffery Martin and the Finders Course

thumbnail
Tom Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 12/24/22 12:56 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/24/22 12:56 PM

Jeffery Martin and the Finders Course

Posts: 140 Join Date: 2/17/10 Recent Posts
Has anyone here taken the finders course, created by Jeffery Martin.  A friend just told me about it in glowing terms.  If you are familiar with the course, please tell me about your experience.
thumbnail
Jim Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 12/25/22 8:38 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/25/22 7:54 PM

RE: Jeffery Martin and the Finders Course

Posts: 1798 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Tom Smith
Has anyone here taken the finders course, created by Jeffery Martin.  A friend just told me about it in glowing terms.  If you are familiar with the course, please tell me about your experience.


I investigated the course a few years ago and didn't take it. I became suspicious because the web site used psychologically manipulative techniques to attract people and it made claims of being based on scientific research but I couldn't find any scientific papers published that used data collected during the course. Also it seemed like he only had evidence the course improved wellbeing but he implied the evidence proved it produced enlightenment. This seemed to me to be a type of bait and switch - you think you are getting enlightenment but you just get the effects from meditation you could get without the course.

Before taking your friend's experience at face value I would like to know what he said exactly and what other experiences your friend has had and what he is comparing the course to. Is he a beginner? Has he been on retreats? Has he studied different forms of practice? My impression is that the course uses psychologically manipulative techniques to convince the participants the course is beneficial. They are repeatedly asked to self report their progress so there is a lot of self- and peer- pressure to report progress and I think people who take the risk of paying a large fee are unlikely to admit to themselves they didn't get some benefit from it. I also understand there is a high drop out rate and those students are not there to submit data saying they are not helped despite having paid their fee. So the supposedly "scientific" claims the course is beneficial are not more reliable than claims for other systems.

Some people might genuinely benefit from the course if they can easily afford the fees and if they need support to encourage them to meditate regularly and they want the benefits from meditation but are not seeking awakening.

During the course students try different forms of meditation which I think is  a great idea and I wish other teachers would encourage that. However I don't think you need an expensive course to do that.

So, I am not against the course. I don't object to the meditation techniques or the amounts of meditation involved. (The course doesn't sink to the levels I do object to where beginners are told to meditate all day for many days in a row with psychiatric disorders being the too frequent result.) The only danger I see is that you pay too much money to become convinced you got something beyond what 2hrs a day of meditation would produce without the course (tranquility is not enlightenement). Over hyped and over priced is true for almost everything and every course for sale now-a-days so this course isn't worse than many many other commercial products in that respect.

Personally, I am somewhat biased in that I don't trust psychologists who seem to be using their expertise in manipulating people, and I live a frugal life and am repelled by the over hype that seems to be everywhere today. 

But I also think a lot of people will love this course and be convinced it helped them far beyond what it actually did. Who am I to say they should be deprived of that happiness?
thumbnail
Tom Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 12/25/22 11:02 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/25/22 11:02 PM

RE: Jeffery Martin and the Finders Course

Posts: 140 Join Date: 2/17/10 Recent Posts
Thanks for your thoughts Jim.  I found these fairly negative reports which correspond to what you wrote.  I have decided not to take the course.

​​​​​​​https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/98e7gd/practice_my_review_of_finders_course_exposing_the/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mBoiFi1zbtP1ewUCjoTtAabG67GjsLICuceAjl4nHWE/edit#
thumbnail
Griffin, modified 1 Year ago at 12/27/22 2:58 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/27/22 2:58 PM

RE: Jeffery Martin and the Finders Course

Posts: 273 Join Date: 4/7/18 Recent Posts
This thing has always felt surreal to me. At the surface it sounds like a dream come true, an achievement of historical proportions: rigorously interviewing hundrends of awakened teachers and constructing an ideal coctail of meditation techniques. And then, a marketing so snake-oily that it hurts your eyes. I remain skeptical, but not 100% dismissive.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 12/27/22 6:13 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/27/22 6:13 PM

RE: Jeffery Martin and the Finders Course

Posts: 5423 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I was an interview subject for a Jeffery Martin study back in about 2008. Skepticism is appropriate in dealing with Jeffery based on my personal experience.

Breadcrumb