RE: Dark Night Problems

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Jake , modified 12 Years ago at 12/4/11 9:04 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/4/11 9:04 PM

RE: Dark Night Problems

Posts: 695 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
Jared w:
I'm currently in the dark knight and am having a few problems. First, meditation is much harder than it was before. I actually find myself getting bored or unfocused constantly. .


Hi Jared and welcome to DhO! It's hard for an observer to know where you're at without a lot of context as to what came before, what sorts of practices you've been doing, how your path has been unfolding so far, but taking this at face value...

Jared w:
Secondly. I was meditating today and at one point was focusing on my feet. There started to be a small vibration and then all of a sudden I had this queasy feeling. I was about to vomit but snapped out of my meditation to stop it. Is that normal?


The range of experiences that can happen in various stages are pretty broad and different from one person to the next. That could be "disgust" nyana or a bad cheeseburger, but either way: is it permanent? Solid? Is it really "you" or "yours"? How does the way your mind relates to it-- with resistance and dualistic tension or openness and relaxation-- condition the arising and cessation of suffering?

Jared w:
I want to move on from dark knight, but don't really know where to go next. I feel pretty much lost at the moment.


What is "I want to move on..." made of? Is it solid, permanent? Is it impermanent sensations? Is it all that's true of your experience? Or is it just one part of your experience? Is it a primary experience or is it a reaction to other experiences (those that you are labeling dark night)? What is "being lost"? How lost are you, if you're in touch with the feelings and thoughts of lostness? Maybe that's just part of this phase. Maybe by really getting in touch with those feelings and investigating that experience of "being lost"-- seeing what its made of, how it functions-- things will unfold spontaneously.

I find that dark night is a time to let go of assumptions about who I am, what experience is, to learn about the dynamics of resistance and release. If you come into this territory (dissolution) with a strong commitment to the existential presupposition that "I am" a solid, separate, continuous self, the experiencer of experiences, the doer of deeds, than this can be extremely disorienting and painful. However, if you hold this existential presupposition more lightly, if you can get a feel for what it would mean for identity to be unfixed, fluid, discontinuous, part of the field of experience rather than the experiencer of experience, than it can be a very interesting (if still dark nighty) phase of practice.

-Jake
Jared w, modified 12 Years ago at 12/4/11 9:44 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/4/11 9:44 PM

RE: Dark Night Problems

Posts: 3 Join Date: 11/18/11 Recent Posts
Hi Jared and welcome to DhO! It's hard for an observer to know where you're at without a lot of context as to what came before, what sorts of practices you've been doing, how your path has been unfolding so far, but taking this at face value...

Well I first started using a guided meditation for sleep problem years ago. A few months ago I started using this guide referred to me by a friend. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/guided.html Within a couple weeks I had my first A&P experience. I was listening to music and I sort of went into this trance. I saw a vision of myself in a meditation stance with the background as a white/blue/red gradient. After that, sensations had pretty much traveled through my whole body and I knew the person I saw in my vision is what I wanted to achieve. The sensation gradually decreased within 5 minuets. A couple days later I hit the dark night. I was literally crying out of no where multiple times a day and I couldn't pin point why. I pretty much felt like crap. Meditation became a lot harder, but the major depression and random burst of crying/anger reduced by a lot the following days. I've been trying to keep equaniamity these past weeks.


The range of experiences that can happen in various stages are pretty broad and different from one person to the next. That could be "disgust" nyana or a bad cheeseburger, but either way: is it permanent? Solid? Is it really "you" or "yours"? How does the way your mind relates to it-- with resistance and dualistic tension or openness and relaxation-- condition the arising and cessation of suffering?

Well I don't feel it now. My mind reacted by alerting me I was about to vomit. I've only vomited 3 times in my entire life, and there was always a reason for it.



What is "I want to move on..." made of? Is it solid, permanent? Is it impermanent sensations? Is it all that's true of your experience? Or is it just one part of your experience? Is it a primary experience or is it a reaction to other experiences (those that you are labeling dark night)? What is "being lost"? How lost are you, if you're in touch with the feelings and thoughts of lostness? Maybe that's just part of this phase. Maybe by really getting in touch with those feelings and investigating that experience of "being lost"-- seeing what its made of, how it functions-- things will unfold spontaneously.

I find that dark night is a time to let go of assumptions about who I am, what experience is, to learn about the dynamics of resistance and release. If you come into this territory (dissolution) with a strong commitment to the existential presupposition that "I am" a solid, separate, continuous self, the experiencer of experiences, the doer of deeds, than this can be extremely disorienting and painful. However, if you hold this existential presupposition more lightly, if you can get a feel for what it would mean for identity to be unfixed, fluid, discontinuous, part of the field of experience rather than the experiencer of experience, than it can be a very interesting (if still dark nighty) phase of practice.

-Jake

It's made up by my thoughts to end my suffering. Yes, it is impermanent though. You're right, sometimes it is the reaction to those experiences that I labeled the dark night. Other times, I just feel like I'm ready for the next level. I'm not really understanding getting rid of the "self". I see the physical and mental side like they are two worlds.
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Jake , modified 12 Years ago at 12/5/11 7:52 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/5/11 7:52 AM

RE: Dark Night Problems

Posts: 695 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
Jared w:
I'm not really understanding getting rid of the "self". I see the physical and mental side like they are two worlds.


What do you mean, getting rid of the self?

By the way, have you checked out MCTB?
--Jake