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Neurosky Mindwave

Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
12/6/11 3:14 PM
Research grade EEG brainwave reader for 100 bucks?

Neurosky Mindwave

Just ordered mine... I'll let you know if it is interesting for meditation purposes.

Amazing times we live in, heh?

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
12/9/11 8:12 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Yeah - imagine playing the 'brahmavihara video game' - where you score points by hitting certain mindstates...

Lol - watch if we aren't careful we will accidentally transform the whole world!

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
12/9/11 1:26 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Wow.

Really keen to hear how it goes. Site looks interesting as well.

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
12/18/11 8:44 AM as a reply to Andrew ..
I'm really interested in EEG for brain training and exploration of mind states. If I had the money, I would get the Emotiv EPOC (300$) which has 14 electrodes. Still, what matter the most is that the device can measure all kind of brain waves (Delta, Theta, Alpha, Beta, Gamma) .

I'm also interested in neurostimulation. I would really like to try this device:
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
12/18/11 9:30 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
replying so i get updated.

looking forward to your results! looks really interesting.

I was hooked up to a simple heart rate/ o2 level monitor the other day for a medical procedure and I had fun with getting my heartrate to go slower and faster with different meditation techniques. I got as low as 42 and as high as 65 all while lying in a bed!

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
12/18/11 1:05 PM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Ok, I am not making any strong claim about the product, I have only tested it for a week or so.

The "mindwave" headset is made by the neurosky company, it consists of two electrodes — one placed in the forehead for measuring and one in the ear to serve as a "ground" measure of the background noise.

Based on this, the integrated circuit inside the headset outputs five different kinds of information: the raw signal output (perhaps noise filtered?) from the forehead electrode, a sort of fourier transform of that signal (perhaps smoothed out somehow) in 8 bands - delta, low/high theta, low/high alpha, low/high beta and gamma, one special output that serves to detect when the user blinks (!), and, finally two 0-100 meters called "attention" and "meditation" which use some proprietary algorithm to process the raw signal and somehow evaluate how "engaged" and how "relaxed" you are, respectively.

This past week I have played exclusively with these two meters. I find that there is a decent correlation between how concentrated I am and how high the attention meter is, and how relaxed I am and how high the meditation meter is. I have programed a tiny custom-made program which makes a sound beep whenever the "attention" meter falls below a certain value, and I have effectively attempting to use this to prevent me from getting into long mental elaborations ("monkey mind"). With some success, perhaps more than I anticipated, perhaps not as much as I would hope for — I wish to be extremely cautious before claiming that this device is anything other than a cool toy. It certainly is that.

A hint for those who are considering such a purchase (I know I've been wanting such a gyzmo for years now): For technological, aesthetical and comfort-related reasons, I regret having bought mindwave, and would have bought the myndplay headband instead (same circuits, same outputs, has bluetooth connectivity, and is much more comfortable-looking).

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
2/1/12 12:20 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Thanks for the update Bruno, I was away and missed it when you posted it. I was hanging out and thought you hadn't updated, but here it is ! ripper...

I'll give the one you linked to a spin and post what I find.

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
2/9/12 4:21 PM as a reply to Andrew ..

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
2/11/12 7:02 AM as a reply to Stian Gudmundsen Høiland.
I received the Myndband yesterday and have given it a whirl. I'm planning on doing a full review for this thread, and have let the supplier know. There is a possibility of beta testing their new 'Pro' software that will have all the graphing features (I was hoping were already there actually and have started looking for hacks to extract the data, there are 3rd party ways of doing it...),

the software has three small meters that look like speedos out of a car, one called 'attention' one called 'meditation' and one call 'zone' (I think) , basically if they all go to the right then that is 'good'


Some interesting things I've noticed/learnt so far.

Listening to music moves the meters in the opposite direction to what is considered 'good'

Getting good scores does line up with paying attention without geting involved, which is really hard to do given the fact it is a feedback thing, when the needles go into the good zone, I tend to get involved, and they swing back.

What I'm hoping is the pro software has graphs that can run during a session so i can analyse afterwards all of the raw data as well at the output of the meters.

I'll update when i have spent more time with it. By the way, the one I have is the one Bruno linked to, the link you have posted is far more advanced, looks good though.

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
2/11/12 10:12 AM as a reply to Stian Gudmundsen Høiland.
Stian Gudmundsen Høiland:

Neuromarketing / Neuroscientific Consumer Testing

Your brand is the heart and soul of your business. Brand share – of market and of mind – is your company’s greatest asset. Your brand – its image, attributes, and the loyalty your customers have to it -- exists in the deepest levels of the subconscious minds of your consumers.

Uncovering what consumers notice, like, and remember about your brand is the key to moving brand agnostics into brand evangelists and building brand share and loyalty. Humans have a hard-wired need to have relationships not just with other humans, but also with the fun and/or functional tools we use every day – including brands. The brain has well-developed neural programs for connecting with the meaningful items in our lives. The challenge is how to present your brand as something your customers want to have a long-term relationship with. After all, we love novelty and change but we also crave constancy and commitment.

Achieving, maintaining, and monitoring this delicate balance is what makes great brands great. Applying neuroscience to learn and measure the resonance of your brand provides precise, reliable guidelines for how you design, present, and communicate your brand to the customers you want to reach. This deep understanding of subconscious preferences is the key to building brand passion and to the start of a relationship that could last a lifetime.


At a loss for words... Brahmavihara game indeed.

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
2/11/12 12:31 PM as a reply to N A.
Yes, the company behind the Mynd EEG headset has an agenda. I don't care about that, though. If EEG headsets as advanced and functional as the Mynd becomes avalible at a reasonable price... I can't wait!

Point being that the Mynd EEG headset seems to be at a very interesting intersection of power/functionality, ease of use/practicality and cost.

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
2/12/12 9:10 PM as a reply to Stian Gudmundsen Høiland.
Just to keep you in the loop, I will be beta testing new software this week and get back to this thread sometime next week. I'm impressed with the supplier's pro-active response to me, so here's hoping the 'pro' software can deliver too.

It really does respond to 'wide, attentive, relaxed focus' as the 'positive' feedback on the dials, I've used it just mucking around infront of the computer watching the dials and got quite concentrated, it is like a kasina practice with a macbook!. I'm looking forward to sitting a session without watching the dials and see what it looks like in a graph.

So to be fair, I'll wait till I've given feedback to the supplier about the software, then update here further.

Edit: to be clear I have the Myndplay headset.

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
2/13/12 4:12 AM as a reply to Andrew ..
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the review!

Does the software offer a visualization the 8 bands of brainwaves: hi/low- beta, alpha, theta, delta? What about left/right hemisphere?

This is the functionality I want out of an EEG headset: Video of Ken Wilber.

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
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2/13/12 5:50 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
I have been programming some custom software to help with meditation. Gauges, graphs, and warning bells. I'll post it here sometime. It's a fun toy, huh?

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
2/13/12 8:03 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
It is that! I've got the beta software now, having trouble getting it to connect, something I've done wrong probably...Custom software heh? Sounds great, coming from you I can be sure it meets our exacting standards around here! Good work mate.

What does the warning bell do though?..

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
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2/18/12 8:29 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Hi Bruno,

am quite curious about your software - especially if it runs on a Mac OS X, or is it on another platform?

Thanks

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
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3/6/12 6:40 AM as a reply to Marc A Christian.
Ok.

After spending some time with the Mynd Play, I can only really echo Bruno in saying it is a fun toy. Basically the unit itself works fine, but the software is arguably far too basic for what a meditator is looking for (which actually is a bit of a grey area in my case, pardon the pun). I was hoping that the new 'pro' software would be the new standard software, but it has been launched as an additional 35 pound purchase, making the whole thing pretty pricey.

The 'pro' software only really brings it up to the basic type of info you might expect to be seeing (session times, and graphs) but doesn't have anything particularly detailed in the amplitude readings, basically the graphs are OK, but really basic.

The hard thing is to work out what it is you want it to do, which is what i said the the vendor; it works, and it's graphs do show the differences between sessions, but it has no flexibility so if you want manipulate the data, you can't. Which leads me back to wondering what I'm looking at and wanting to compare it in a spreadsheet, work out means and standard deviations etc, get a clearer picture than 'that squiggly line is bigger than that one'

The reality is this particular company is more geared towards entertainment rather than research/meditation so it wouldn't be fair to say it fails as a product, I rather failed to see that is where the marketing is pointed too. Note the extra large word "Entertainment" on the home page; http://www.myndplay.com/ -can't say I wasn't told!

If you are thinking of doing some personal research with EEG you will be quickly wanting more detail from the data. The upside is the headset itself is apparently compatible with the neurosky software and potentially other 3rd party developers, so if it really does get your juices flowing, the headset is fine and is definately comfy enough, though it is a bit too small for my extra large head emoticon

Edit: i too would be interested in the software hack you put together Bruno, that little beep could be my ticket out of here...

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
3/6/12 9:07 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
Hi all,
interesting.

i have been using the emotiv system and integrated into openvibe software for a while now.

it is all interesting but it doesn't seem to have any positive influence on my meditation.

another interesting field of play is gnaural and its ilk. brain entrainment via bianaural beats. after a short time of random experimentation it threw me into a "sleep paralysis" event which was very strange.

happy tuning

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
3/20/12 2:01 PM as a reply to Bruno Loff.
We have an addictions program and are going to use BrainPaint. I bought Mindwave and have had a similar experience. It is hard to know how to adjust the meditation without looking. I would love to use a home model so we can let people work at home. I am very interested in the meditation. I am glad that Bruno is working on some software. I would be interested if you want someone to test it.
Thanks for the feedback.

RE: Neurosky Mindwave
Answer
3/20/12 3:31 PM as a reply to tom moylan.
Hello to all;

I picked up the neurosky device about a month ago and I have found it an interesting tool and an amazing distraction at the same time! For me it was very easy to get lost in making the numbers change, the lines move, rather than make serious progress at meditation. Then again I haven't liked much of the software out there either. It will be a treat to see software written by hardcore meditators.


tom moylan:
Hi all,
interesting.

i have been using the emotiv system and integrated into openvibe software for a while now.

it is all interesting but it doesn't seem to have any positive influence on my meditation.

another interesting field of play is gnaural and its ilk. brain entrainment via bianaural beats. after a short time of random experimentation it threw me into a "sleep paralysis" event which was very strange.

happy tuning