I haven't been involved with DO for a while, as I was mostly stuck in darknight alongside some sort of depression and anxiety disorder. Seven years ago I got on a good medication at one of my darker points and have been more stable since and conbtinue to take Valdoxin. It was more through not practicing regularly beside the occassional intensive, that I was able to manage darknight. I was hearing teachers talking about sweetening the practice with Metta and I tried that with some but only temporary success. Basically things would get really sensitive and weird in daily life if I practiced a lot and they still do to some extent.
I have found a lot more stability with the TWIM style of meditation as well as some reasonably high levels of success. I thought I would share my documentation of my experiences that I exchanged with my teacher. For I am curious what people might think about it and I want share an alternative to dry insight that I wasn't aware of when I went down that path? It's a 10 day home retreat but Friday starts in the evening and Sunday is optional. The teachers response is underlined. This is my second retreat TWIM, and these days I only practice TWIM.
Primary Practice Question
Tell me about your Best sitting since your last report. What did you experience, how long on the object, anything new appear? If nothing new just tell me the quality of the feeling and what happened in your best sitting:
Day 3 Sun Apr 16, 2023
Initially I was able to generate a fairly strong feeling of metta for myself and my spiritual friend and cycled through that quite pleasantly 2 or 3 times.
The sit got better after 30min and got into a grove as the mind became more absorbed and the body less present. Be careful here. Stay with the feelig, but do not become it - absorption. You have been there with Vipassana. Absorpton is a trap that takes us away from the present moment particularly if it is painful.
I was noticing as my mind became dull in that dark withdrawn tranquil and equanimous place, where sleepiness affects me. Here you need to sharpen investigation and mindfulness and it will eventually overcome the dullness.
After a few, very short subtle micro sleeps I could feel that dullness of the mind moving in and I thought to use Bhante's advice, to take mind as my object.
This helped stabilize my practice and stopped that sleepiness taking over, in the tranquil withdrawn place. I was able to be aware of more background images and thoughts, and by seeing them as they arise return more quickly to the calm withdrawn mind, this helped me You did the right thing intuitively.
stay energised and wakeful. I lost less mindfulness because my 6R was more intuitive and less conceptual. It was a process of just returning to a calm withdrawn mind and letting go of the images or thoughts. Please explain to me what you mean by withdrawn mind. Equanimity is a calm feeling in the mind that allows one to observe phenomena as they occur without adding anything or ignoringanything. How do you experience "calm withdrawn"?
It was somewhere between 10-15m where the images and thoughts were either sparce and at times not there at all. Nothingness
I remembered the idea in that calm withdrawn space, as I had taken down some notes during Bhante's talk today where he described, “to investigate and observe the slight movement or vibration that arises,” that's how I became more aware of these subtle images-thought arising in the quiet background of my mind caught them and returned to the object of meditation.Very good. You picked up your mindfulness and investigation to balance the tranquility and you could see the subtle arising of phenomena. It is very important to use the 6R's now when a disturbance arrises and return to calm mind. The 6R's will be as you experineced, flowing on their own and not conceptual. Then return the mind to the object of calm mind.
Not sure if it was some sort of space on the edge of nothingness which at times crossed over into neither perception of not perception or just a nothingness space. Yes.
There wasn’t a really clear stage of infinites space or infinite consciousness with that joyful quality which I have experienced quite intensely once or twice last retreat as a kind of peak expression of infinite consciousness. It was just strong sukha and or loving kindness, and then less awareness of my body with loving kindness which moved towards calm, and then withdrawn and calm. Quiet mind. That might be what you are describing as withdrawn and calm.
If it was neither perception nor non perception there was less of a sense of returning to consciousness and reviewing what had occurred, like it was in the last retreat, as I retained more clear awareness during this state.
Last retreat and this retreat were definitely not a cessation as many years ago in vipassana retreat I learned that this sleep nodding off state wasn’t a cessation. Yes.
I now think it has a relationship with neither perception nor non perception. Which when done wrong you basically fall asleep in. But when done right there is a sense of returning and being refreshed, which to the neophile with a bit too much knowledge but not enough can be mistaken for cessation. Yes
Just left wondering whether you can retain more awareness in neither perception nor non perception or if there is always that sense of disappearing and returning? The answer to this will come in your meditaiton. You are progressing very well and will make good progress if you keep two principles in mind. Just observe the phenomena occuring at the present moment and as the mind starts to wobble, 6R. The beauty of the TWIM process to enlightenment is allowing the process to occur on it's own when we use the Eightfold Path. The Path factors that you are developing now are Right Effort (the 6R's), Right Mindfulness ( Observing how the mind's attention moves from object to object.) and Right Collectedness (The relaxed attention to the present moment) When these are in balance one stays on the object for a long time in full awareness and peace. The process continues on it's own and unfolds. You just have to watch it happen. Conceit (the sense that I am doing it) is a hindrance and gets in the way.
Day 4 Mon Apr 17, 2023
This was my longest sit. 1:40 Lots of formations, from the 4 elements. Particularly around the head but also throughout the body. I was in a calm stage so going back to metta when the practice had moved up into the head wasn’t an option, or is hard. You have progressed beyond using Metta as a meditation object in your sitting. When you have calm mind (Upekkha), just observe that and use that as your meditation object.
Because the calm is more subtle it is hard to see as an object while this kind of weird vipassana feedback / interference / i.e. 4 elements with the mental formation within the body. Despite the calm being subtle and the body being only partially during these formations, the calm was strong enough to sit a bit longer. Though I did adjust slightly at 30 min and 1 hr, it was not that difficult in the last 40minutes to continue sitting with these sensations. I did feel they were going nowhere and had been there most of the sitting and in the end decided not to sit 2hrs, as I am trying to cultivate calm and leave the vipassana formation in the background. Overall I just stayed with the calm and relaxed these formations within the elements without giving too much attention to them. It sounds like your Vipassana practice is getting in the way of your progress. When there are things in the background and your attention stays on Upekkha wthout clinging to it, there is no need to note the background disturbances. One cannot split one's attention. The mind can process only one contact at a time. If in doubt 6R the disturbance. You may want to refine your practice in the following way: Place your attention on the calm mind (Upekkha) and any time there is a disturbance of any kind rcognize that your mind has drifted, fully release your attention on it, relax any tension in the mind/body, RESMILE - very important, return to Upekkha, and repeat the process every time you notice the mind has wondered.
Day 7 Thur Apr 20, 2023
It was mellow, a bit sleepy or dull minded, and then it kind of wandered into a slightly boring place with formations moving around the head which were light (in the next sit they were like 5 pencils all doing random squiggles an with flushes of emotion and though coming at me quite fast), but they were the kind of formations that stop you from focusing too hard because if you do ever so slightly that brings back the heavier formations and tension around around the head ( in the next sit the were moving and changing at a high speed in a vibratory kind of way) those kinds of made it hard to hold the object of calm of calm with clarity. Those last two sit do remind me of territories around low and between high equanimity. Despite the jittery fast moving feedback, which was smoother in the in the earlier and coarser in the later session, (which was a sensation, but I'm going to use and auditory metaphor, were kind like cracking in the reception of a radio station) Sounds like Infinite Consciousness. That is when there are qick consecutive perceptions at the sense doors, discreet mind moments. This stage is quite fascinating and can take one out of staying with the object. I was able to follow along with an undercurrent of calm and let go of all this arising stuff because of the collectedness that remained, this stopped the formations getting to heavy and also seem to allow a fair bit of intense emotion and memory trigger to flow. Your mind is cleansing old memories and old samscaras (formations). Sometimes it is fruitful to process these emotions to cleanse the minnd. Not to dwell on them but to let them burn out. Mostly I was able to keep my calm. made me think of Delson's talk where he said the 6R where what help a person transition from NPNNP to cessation because it you need to 6R the cling and craving. Well that's all I can do ATM anyway. Overall it wasn't great but it wasn't to bad, I felt I mostly kept my cool. Yes. Your are bringing up craving and clinging. These are very subtle in the arupa Jhanas. There is the cravng for release, experiencing cessation. If that is present, release will not happen. There is the expectaton that the practice will unfold in a certain way, which is a hindrance. There is a very subtle belief if I do this or that, I can make it happen. There is the search for something to happen, so when mind is quiet and nothing is happening, it becomes boring, another hindrance. An effective practice at this stage is to sit down with no expectation. Start woth Metta just flowing and smile, this will bring up joy which will lead to relaxed body. Then just observe how the mind progresses to Upekkha, immediatly 6R any vibration, formation, sensation and return to Upekkha as your object of meditation. See if you can discern the transition of Upekkha to still or quiet mind. What is the mental feeling of each. In nothingness ones observational powers become very sharp, also the 6Rs become a flow that occurs just by noticing that the mind has strayed even slghtly from the object.and the relaxation of tension occurs.
Day 8 Fri Apr 21, 2023
I wouldn’t exactly call it boring, but there is a quality of boring because there is something stuck about this state, yes it does remind me of what I used to think of as mid equanimity on the insight map.
Holding the object and not wondering is harder. At times I am orientating my mind's collectedness upon Upekkha, as an object it has a kind of background clarity, that at times I can see a bit more clearly, and as there is less tranquillity, that’s about all I have.
Was also reading a bit of the Path to Nibbana, and Johnson was talking about noticing the space between thoughts that made it easier to see the Upekkha and some calm in my next meditation. Also mentioned not radiating Upekkha, that seemed to help too at times in the second long sit.
This stage of practice where I am at, for most of the sit, starts with a quiet mind of tranquillity and equanimity, and then goes to mostly equanimity.
In the equanimity there are background mental and emotional formation that need to be 6R. But if I use any effort to collect my mind the elemental formation and the associated tensions immediately start to form and around the head and neck.
The tranquillity is rarely there in any significant measure to aid with one's collectedness, in this way I am forced to be more care in finding the object. The body feels there but isn’t really there, and for the most part is of no real concern.
The build up of tension around the head and a state that's low in tranquillity, along with manifestation of one's undercurrent persona contributing to this ongoing tension. I had a lot more quite mind in the following sit because I identified space between thoughts this gave me a more tranquil object, and for a while the formations were subtle.
Deep unconscious thoughts & emotions from the past rise in the quiet murky background of my mind trying to trigger a thought stream, most aren’t anything of any real concern. But I seem to be caught about every 10 to 15 min I think. Mind was more quite next sit with space between thoughts.I am thinking that maybe I need to keep doing these longer sits and not give into the boredom at the end of an 1:30 and continue going another 30 mins even if things seem uneventful. Absolutely. Boredom is a manifestation of investigation beign weak. Investigation of the meditation object, at this stage Upekkha,is not a forced investigation, but a sharpening of the attention. Watching for any movement of the mind from the object of Upekkha. The instructions by David Johnson are spot on. It would also be very helpful if you review the following link from Dhamma Sukha about trying too hard and rolling the Rs. I think it will help you get to a new level of understanding of the process. https://www.dhammasukha.org/trying-too-hard Day 9 Sat Apr 22, 2023
Late Morning and Late Afternoon were the best sits and were quite similar. Early afternoon was still good. That's a pretty solid day usually only one sit is really good.
The last sit was surprisingly peaceful, after diligently 6R quite mind arose, I was able to let go of subtle back ground thought and really slip way to no mind, I think that's what my research called it. Just really refreshing. Initially there was a bit of that nodding, not really sleepy or jerky, then a run of short slow blink like ones, and then a really deep one. The deep one was not a feeling of coming back or a dream like quality, but a bit of both or somewhere in between the two. Still working of the principle I heard in one of Bhante's talks where he described a dream like quality associated with NPNNP and the way I am identifying them, is from the warm flush like quality through to the refreshing I had a bath quality. Actually they are feel a lot like getting out of a warm bath.
Continues to 6R afterward, had really lost all sense of time and thought I had missed the 1 and a half hour bell, but it was only 1:20. I felt like I had been working with the returning mind for a fair while, so I decided to rest and allow some momentum for another session. Momentum is what one builds during a retreat like this. At the beginning one puts a lot of energy into getting into the stream of consciousness that is there and then with the momentum of that stream, one rides the current in Jhana. Still watchful for obstructions and 6Ring them and then floating freely again. So now you are in the section of the stream that is NPNNP. The approach is through cultivating quiet mind. The mind with Upekkha is still radiating outward somewhat with still a pleasant mental feeling. The mind that is still/quiet is clear, not radiating, turned in on itself, light and peaceful. It can notice any disturbance and by just noticing, the 6R clearing happens. There is a temptation to do something to make it better, move faster, etc. Notice the tightening with that craving. 6R. Eventually the mind quiets to the point that NPNNP is present. Just flow with that with as much attention as possible at first this stage drops into non-awareness and dreaminess and as you experienced you go in and out. It is very pleasant. When coming out of NPNNP the feeling that you just have had a bath tells you that there was good awareness during that stage and that you did not get too concentrated. A sign of slipping onto one pointed concentration is a dull and heavy mind feeling when you come out of NPNNP. Notice the clarity of your attention the quality of the sensatons coming in your sense doors whenyou finish the sitting. After the maturation of this Jhana there will be quiet mind that will lead to disenchantment and dispassion.
I did a reasonably amount of study on the the retreat, on key points within the availble resources on and leading up to Neither Perception and Non Perception. One of the more unusual phenomena, was this refererence to a kind of blinking out into NPnNP and then as the practice gets deeper a kind of awareness within a dreamlike state in NPnNP, that is really only identified after you come out of it. This is meant to lay the ground work for actually streamentry, because at this level you are quite receptive. And clearly can be mistaken for streamentry.
