help with diagnosis, practice plan, and general confusion - Discussion
help with diagnosis, practice plan, and general confusion
Ivan Perez, modified 1 Year ago at 7/9/23 11:59 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/9/23 11:59 AM
help with diagnosis, practice plan, and general confusion
Posts: 14 Join Date: 2/17/23 Recent Posts
I am quite sure I am in equanimity, but i'd like confirmation nonetheless.
practicing for almost a year now, which I understand is a short time but I have progressed quickly(with the help of MCT.
passed through a and p about four months ago on ten day retreat. didn't know it at first but then reread the insight maps in MCTB and realized why the hell i was vibrating.
then after maybe four days the equanimity and vibrating stopped. entered dark night.
dissolution lasted a week or two. then vibrations returned. worked through fear and misery in another couple weeks; disgust, desire for deliverance and reobservation kind of all blended together in a few weeks of horribleness.
Then on an evening stroll after a meditation sit, something clicked and all the bitterness dropped away, i felt equanimous and joyful about existing. My sense of humor came back.
Through the DN, I got pretty good at extricating insight related emotion from real feelings. The DN tended to contrive a deep sorrowful, angsty feeling in my chest that didn't have any substance attached to it upon investigation. Meanwhile regular depression would be attached to specific worldly concerns.
Using the insight related emotions helped much with mapping, as I'm not very good at seeing distinctions in different attentional spectrums and vibrational frequencies.
I've back slid to the DN a couple times since, but the past few weeks I believe I'm firmly in equanimity. each time i reenter equanimity, i get the same exact exact collection of feelings— i've laughed each time. I guess there's something funny to me about the needless suffering of the dark night that drops away all at once once you just accept reality.
I can observe very quick vibrations at any point throughout the day, not just sitting. I'm gaining very nuanced insight into body and mind. I feel the dualistic split often when sitting, the illusion that I am the subject observing objects but upon investigation there is no distinction.
my current practice routine is in the Burmese tradition. I practice anapana(concentrating on touch sensation of breath at nostrils) and vipassana(moving awareness through body, observing impermanence):
in morning(20 mins)
midday (1hr)
evening(not timed, but around 15-30 mins)
I would like advice and clarification on a few things:
- I can fill my body with plesurable sensations at will by concentrating on my breath a certain way(not anapana); is this some sort of jhana related thing? Anapana is comfortably numb when concentration is good, but not outright pleasurable; what is this and how does it relate to the jhanas? is it useful or spiritual masturbation?
- i've had brief blissful raptures and weird experiences that are not very reproduceable and i usually just dismiss; i don't think I've ever been in a jhana; any advice on how to get into jhanas and how to know if i'm in one?
- are the practices I'm currently working with effective for acheiving fruition? What things could i be doing/focusing on to get to stream entry?
- in MCTB ingram speaks a lot about different attentional modes related to the jhanas and insight stages; i've definitely noticed this, especially transitioning from A and P to DN. but recently I've been wondering abt how to tell what attentional mode i'm in; any advice on distinguishing attentional spectrums?
practicing for almost a year now, which I understand is a short time but I have progressed quickly(with the help of MCT.
passed through a and p about four months ago on ten day retreat. didn't know it at first but then reread the insight maps in MCTB and realized why the hell i was vibrating.
then after maybe four days the equanimity and vibrating stopped. entered dark night.
dissolution lasted a week or two. then vibrations returned. worked through fear and misery in another couple weeks; disgust, desire for deliverance and reobservation kind of all blended together in a few weeks of horribleness.
Then on an evening stroll after a meditation sit, something clicked and all the bitterness dropped away, i felt equanimous and joyful about existing. My sense of humor came back.
Through the DN, I got pretty good at extricating insight related emotion from real feelings. The DN tended to contrive a deep sorrowful, angsty feeling in my chest that didn't have any substance attached to it upon investigation. Meanwhile regular depression would be attached to specific worldly concerns.
Using the insight related emotions helped much with mapping, as I'm not very good at seeing distinctions in different attentional spectrums and vibrational frequencies.
I've back slid to the DN a couple times since, but the past few weeks I believe I'm firmly in equanimity. each time i reenter equanimity, i get the same exact exact collection of feelings— i've laughed each time. I guess there's something funny to me about the needless suffering of the dark night that drops away all at once once you just accept reality.
I can observe very quick vibrations at any point throughout the day, not just sitting. I'm gaining very nuanced insight into body and mind. I feel the dualistic split often when sitting, the illusion that I am the subject observing objects but upon investigation there is no distinction.
my current practice routine is in the Burmese tradition. I practice anapana(concentrating on touch sensation of breath at nostrils) and vipassana(moving awareness through body, observing impermanence):
in morning(20 mins)
midday (1hr)
evening(not timed, but around 15-30 mins)
I would like advice and clarification on a few things:
- I can fill my body with plesurable sensations at will by concentrating on my breath a certain way(not anapana); is this some sort of jhana related thing? Anapana is comfortably numb when concentration is good, but not outright pleasurable; what is this and how does it relate to the jhanas? is it useful or spiritual masturbation?
- i've had brief blissful raptures and weird experiences that are not very reproduceable and i usually just dismiss; i don't think I've ever been in a jhana; any advice on how to get into jhanas and how to know if i'm in one?
- are the practices I'm currently working with effective for acheiving fruition? What things could i be doing/focusing on to get to stream entry?
- in MCTB ingram speaks a lot about different attentional modes related to the jhanas and insight stages; i've definitely noticed this, especially transitioning from A and P to DN. but recently I've been wondering abt how to tell what attentional mode i'm in; any advice on distinguishing attentional spectrums?
shargrol, modified 1 Year ago at 7/9/23 1:09 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/9/23 1:04 PM
RE: help with diagnosis, practice plan, and general confusion
Posts: 2706 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent PostsI would like advice and clarification on a few things: - I can fill my body with plesurable sensations at will by concentrating on my breath a certain way(not anapana); is this some sort of jhana related thing? Anapana is comfortably numb when concentration is good, but not outright pleasurable; what is this and how does it relate to the jhanas? is it useful or spiritual masturbation?
numbness tends to be associated with third vipassina jhana
- i've had brief blissful raptures and weird experiences that are not very reproduceable and i usually just dismiss; i don't think I've ever been in a jhana; any advice on how to get into jhanas and how to know if i'm in one?
blissful raptures is second jhana
- are the practices I'm currently working with effective for acheiving fruition? What things could i be doing/focusing on to get to stream entry?
Sounds like you have a solid practice, but I would recommend lengthening the short sits. In general, it usually takes about 30-45 minutes to re-establish practice, and then progress gets made in the next 10-20 minutes of sitting. If it was me, I would drop the morning sit and do a full hour at night. Nighttime sitting is especially helpful for SE. (Narrative thinking is weaker at night and the rigid sense of self becomes porous.)
Mostly focus on good quality sits and go where your mind takes you. It really doesn't matter if a sit is jhana-ish or vipassana-ish, what matters is the intimacy of the experience. Too much "trying" or "seeking" can often get in the way, but too little effort can result in mediocre sits. So really, your goal is to balance consistent practice with just enough enthusiasm to stay curious.
Any particular problem you are having? Maybe you just needed to hear that what you're experiencing is exactly right/normal? As you can see, I don't think you need any changes to continue on the path to SE. You can even disregard the slight modifications I'm suggesting if your current schedule works for you.
Ivan Perez, modified 1 Year ago at 7/11/23 9:26 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/11/23 9:26 AM
RE: help with diagnosis, practice plan, and general confusion
Posts: 14 Join Date: 2/17/23 Recent Posts
thank you, it helps to get reassurance. Your advice is helpful, I will likely change my practice schedule accordingly. I am a bit confused on "going where your mind takes you". I thought mind wandering is bad?
Also, I usually try to focus on the characteristic of impermanence in insight practice. When observing impermanence, should I investigate the physical sensations mentally(thinking) or just observe them as they are?
Also, I usually try to focus on the characteristic of impermanence in insight practice. When observing impermanence, should I investigate the physical sensations mentally(thinking) or just observe them as they are?
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 7/11/23 10:04 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/11/23 10:04 AM
RE: help with diagnosis, practice plan, and general confusion
Posts: 5437 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Mind wandering is normal. When we meditate, we need to observe it, however, and note it for what it is. We observe the mind wandering, note it, and bring ourselves back to the present moment repeatedly. This develops our mindfulness/awareness muscles.