Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

End in Sight, modified 12 Years ago at 12/22/11 12:50 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/22/11 12:25 PM

Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 1251 Join Date: 7/6/11 Recent Posts
Katy has posted some useful suggestions about how exercise and physical practices can improve mood and energy levels...and, as the pursuit of MCTB paths (or dry insight in general) seems to be fairly unpleasant, and as there is a higher interest in meditative practices among those who are unhappy (as they understand the truth of suffering more acutely), I thought that a single thread collecting people's ideas and experiences concerning these things would be useful. (I hope Katy will repost or summarize the major points of the practices she recommends.)

I took an interest in the relationship between exercise and mood in the past, and found the following to be true for myself:

1) Moderate aerobic exercise improves mood immediately afterwards, and for the rest of the day;

2a) Extreme aerobic exercise (near the anaerobic threshold for 30+ minutes) drastically improves mood for the rest of the day, though immediately afterwards it can make one feel terrible;
2b) These drastic improvements in mood are often accompanied by a mental dulling (akin to taking a moderate dose of prescription opiates);

3) Moderate aerobic exercise interspersed with intervals (all-out sprints, etc.) is more like extreme aerobic exercise;

4a) To the extent that mood is altered by exercise, there can be a "withdrawal effect" during days of no-exercise;
4b) The ideal, in terms of mood, is to exercise daily or near-daily;
4c) Extreme aerobic exercise or intervals are not a sustainable daily exercise.

5a) "Fitness-style" weightlifting is like moderate aerobic exercise
5b) "Hardcore" weightlifting (e.g. maximum weight for 1-3 reps on deadlifts etc.) is more like extreme aerobic exercise, except with additional negative effects on cognition

(EDIT: For all forms of exercise, I found it important to eat a meal within ~1hr of finishing.)

If I had to relate this to meditation, I would suggest that moderate aerobic exercise or "fitness-style" weightlifting, performed every day or almost every day, is the most supportive practice...but the "dulling" effect of more extreme forms, coupled with the stronger improvements in mood, might be helpful for concentration practices (as one will be less inclined to be distracted by desires or restlessness, and more likely to be able to generate pleasure).

That is basically all I know about exercise in this context, so hopefully others will post what they know, or their personal experiences. (And, obviously, there is no guarantee that my experience will match anyone else's.)
John White, modified 12 Years ago at 12/22/11 6:38 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/22/11 6:38 PM

RE: Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 61 Join Date: 8/16/10 Recent Posts
I have particularly loved Osho's dynamic meditation. It's aerobics, vipassana, pranayama, emotional release, primal screaming, being the witness - all in one. Osho devised it after conducting meditation camps for many years, for many thousands of people, and determining that most people were pretty repressed. I spent a couple years at Osho's ashram in Poona and did this meditation a lot (it was done at 6am) and found it brilliant, potent, deep, energizing, wonderfully cleansing. I still do it sometimes if I feel dull or lethargic or during some dark night times. When done in a group it's especially good, but alone, even abbreviated versions are still effective.

Here's some basic instructions: http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Meditation&Sub1Menu=ActiveMeditation&Sub2Menu=Dynamic
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Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 12 Years ago at 12/23/11 9:31 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/23/11 9:17 AM

RE: Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent Posts

I took an interest in the relationship between exercise and mood in the past, and found the following to be true for myself:

1) Moderate aerobic exercise improves mood immediately afterwards, and for the rest of the day;

2a) Extreme aerobic exercise (near the anaerobic threshold for 30+ minutes) drastically improves mood for the rest of the day, though immediately afterwards it can make one feel terrible;
2b) These drastic improvements in mood are often accompanied by a mental dulling (akin to taking a moderate dose of prescription opiates);

3) Moderate aerobic exercise interspersed with intervals (all-out sprints, etc.) is more like extreme aerobic exercise;

4a) To the extent that mood is altered by exercise, there can be a "withdrawal effect" during days of no-exercise;
4b) The ideal, in terms of mood, is to exercise daily or near-daily;
4c) Extreme aerobic exercise or intervals are not a sustainable daily exercise.


I've found all of the above to be true from personal experience as well. I'd like to comment on 4b though:


4b) The ideal, in terms of mood, is to exercise daily or near-daily;


Though this is true for many, what i've found in practice is that it is a balance --daily will work for most, as you have a night to recover, but if you are ill, or low-energy for some reason (stress, diet, whatever) it's best to do every other day, or 1 day on, 2 days off and then start to close the gap. You may find like me, if you overdo it (and once every 2 days could be overdoing it if you are frail/ill) in the beginning you'll get cold/flu like symptoms and be in an even worse state.

This is particularly true of interval training, lifting heavy, or endurance (the last I have no experience of, but It seems a given that it works the same as the other 2 in terms of recovery)

It's worth remembering that you don't get fit from exercising, you get from from recovering from exercise.

Yoga

Not sure if this works for other techniques, but I've found some light-moderate yoga before body scanning to be really, really good. I can feel the increased blood-flow and yoga in itself is an excellent preparation for meditation in that it's very calming in itself (you are kind of forced to be mindful to perform the poses without falling over!). Highly recommended.


For all forms of exercise, I found it important to eat a meal within ~1hr of finishing.)


I've found the reverse to be true. Though a meal is very satisfying after a workout, a light meal (heavy on protein if your doing weights) 1/2hr before exercise will help you perfom the exercise and seems to aid faster short term recovery. Not to say that a meal afterwards is bad, you could probably do both pretty good: Peanuts/seeds snack before your workout, then a light lunch after --nice!

Some things about Diet

Mrs Bagpuss and I have done a lot with diet over the past couple of years. Here's a few things we've found to be true from personal experience.

  • The best diet for lifting heavy was the Paleo Diet
  • Vegan diets beat regular vegetarian (typically bulking up on dairy) hands down.
  • You don't need nearly as much protein as you consume. Greens, other veg, are more than adequate
  • Raw foods, (green smoothie heavy) works awesomely for mrs Bagpuss, and girls like it in general.
  • After 8mts, Im off the raw foods in favour or a vata pacifying ayurvedic diet (heavier on fats, no "cold" foods)


[EDIT: added bit about yoga]
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katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 12 Years ago at 12/23/11 10:50 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/23/11 10:50 AM

RE: Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Hi EiS: I'd like to add what many have said about intention. One's intention about their effort must be singular, pure. Diversions and distracted foci and intentions tend to operate like eddies in a stream and circle one back into a ruminating/stagnant pocket. However, those are informative eddies and I tend to think even the distracted eddies are key. Had I not circled quite a bit in eddies, I would not have developed intention.

Here is a fun and extraordinary account of jhanic effort and health: wim hof

For me exercise helped to digest afflictive emotions during the "purification by knowledge" stages (aka "dark night"), and this enabled the mental faculty to apply itself more usefully, more expansively, to listen to and to try various people's tips and guidance. I find it interesting that in the three-part classification of gtummo, the first level is designed to burn off emotion and ruminating. So, this can be a way to think of exercise, a burning off of afflictive emotion. This is why I think exercising periodically at just below a puke-point was useful: it is very hard to think, ruminate, depress, complain, etc when the objective is to complete, say, one minute at a very high threshold of effort.
Bart Castelijns, modified 12 Years ago at 12/24/11 3:06 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/24/11 3:06 PM

RE: Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/12/10 Recent Posts
I find that rotating my joints prior to sitting helps to make the sit more comfortable. Technique is really easy and I don't have to worry about damaging myself (as with yoga and weightlifting). What I do can be found here: http://www.intu-flow.com/. I picked it up from the taobums website.
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Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 12 Years ago at 12/24/11 4:15 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/24/11 4:15 PM

RE: Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent Posts
Thanks for posting that Bart. Shame that guys site is one of those horrid long letter spam page type affairs, it doesn't inspire confidence. The practice looks really interesting though did you buy his ebook? Is it any good?
Bart Castelijns, modified 12 Years ago at 12/25/11 5:29 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/25/11 5:29 AM

RE: Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 57 Join Date: 8/12/10 Recent Posts
Hi Bagpuss,

unfortunately there's not much I can tell you. I've been doing the intermediate intu-flow series almost each day for a few months now. When I do yoga-excercises the effects on mood, bodily alignment, energy and such are much more pronounced. Though the yoga-excercises will sometimes create more tension in my body. Technique is really important when doing yoga, and that's less of an issue with the rotation excercises. There's not much that you can do wrong.

I'm not making any claims other than that it's easy, that it helps to get rid of superficial tensions such as those brought on by computer use and that that in turn helps my meditation (as it's easier to feel pleasant sensations).

I haven't bought the e-book. All information you need to get started is on youtube. If you try out the series let me know what your experience is,
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Bruno Loff, modified 12 Years ago at 12/25/11 1:51 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/25/11 1:51 PM

RE: Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 1094 Join Date: 8/30/09 Recent Posts
Bart Castelijns:
If you try out the series let me know what your experience is,


I checked out the intuflow videos by suggestion of a dharma friend (going by "crazy wisdom" here on DhO), during my first A&P phase after stream entry. The goal was to use them for grounding excess energy. They worked well.

I also taught them to my father, who has chronic joint problems in his shoulders (but always refused to exercise). When he finally started doing them every day, his condition improved a lot.

I still do these all the time. I only learned the "beginner" series, and do it a few times a week.
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Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 12 Years ago at 12/26/11 4:08 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/26/11 4:08 PM

RE: Exercise, mood, energy, etc.

Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent Posts
Thanks for the info Bart and Bruno

Im going to give this some time from the videos once the kids are back at school. If it works out and Ibuy his book or whatever I'll definitely post a report.

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